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So, getting together to finish character creation this weekend for the Lost Mines campaign I joined. DM left it up to everyone whether or not to say what we'd be running before the game actually starts. Nobody said what they were running, though the DM mentioned we have no healer and would need one, and two people are running the same class.
 
Nobody said:
So, getting together to finish character creation this weekend for the Lost Mines campaign I joined. DM left it up to everyone whether or not to say what we'd be running before the game actually starts. Nobody said what they were running, though the DM mentioned we have no healer and would need one, and two people are running the same class.
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So people are keeping their characters a secret from each other? That's odd.
 
The Narrator said:
So people are keeping their characters a secret from each other? That's odd.
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AuraTwilight said:
That's fairly common, actually. A lot of GMs do it to justify shit like Status.
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I generally loathe people who will not talk about their characters out of character. Sure, fine, don't tell me secrets in the backstory, that's perfectly reasonable, but at least tell me what you are playing since party comp can be important.
 
The Imperator said:
I generally loathe people who will not talk about their characters out of character. Sure, fine, don't tell me secrets in the backstory, that's perfectly reasonable, but at least tell me what you are playing since party comp can be important.
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In my experience, there is nothing funner then a suboptimal party. That's where the best stories come from.
 
maskedanddanger said:
In my experience, there is nothing funner then a suboptimal party. That's where the best stories come from.
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Not for optimal parties, but for a general idea of the game I'm in for. Especially in something like Pathfinder/3.5, where if you don't have a healer, you're down for several days (to longer) between combats if you're out in the middle of nowhere exploring. I'd at least like to know what I'm in for before saying yes to a game :p I also don't like doing the same things as others, I like to build to fill holes in parties, rather than build something without considering what others are playing.
 
maskedanddanger said:
In my experience, there is nothing funner then a suboptimal party. That's where the best stories come from.
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It's not about making sure the party is optimal, it's making sure important roles for the campaign are covered, like having a source of healing. Also to avoid multiple people fighting for the same niche after the campaign starts. It's not much fun if 3 people all decided they want to play a character skilled at skullduggery and they all have to sort out who is going to take a task that uses those skills each time the opportunity comes up while the others twiddle their thumbs because they can't do the cool thing they made their character to do.
 
The issue of class roles is one of the reasons I kinda dislike how Wizards of the Coast has been using the mechanics of 5e. They're not taking advantage of anything to deal with mechanical issues their initial design caused, like the fact that everyone rapidly goes down the shitter the moment the recommended encounters are exceeded. Or the fact that you actually need certain character types to win campaigns. Arcane Trickster and Eldritch Knight are a good start, but we need subclasses to get stuff like Paladins off Long Rest dependence, as well as offer the option for some of the not-quite-healer classes to turn into Cleric-level bulk healers.

Essentially, 5e's a game with enough interlocking needs that the game ends up needing to either be played like 4e, as far as combat is concerned, or mechanics need to be introduced to pivot a character's capabilities and bypass some of the issues caused by overbalancing raw numbers. And, of course, they still didn't actually fix the difference in kind problem between the full casters and martials...
 
So I was bored a while back, and decided to build some original magical weapons for 5E. Here are the three that I designed at the time - I would like to get a second opinion as to whether they seem balanced, or over/underpowered for their rarity.

SERPENT'S TONGUE
Weapon (any sword without the two-handed property), very rare (requires attunement)
When you hit with an attack using this magical sword, the target takes an extra 1d6 acid damage.
In addition, you can speak the sword's command word as a bonus action, causing the blade to separate into a series of segments linked by a whiplike cable. The command word can be spoken again as a bonus action to revert this change. While in whip form, the sword has the following features:
The sword's damage die is reduced by one size (from d8 to d6, or d6 to d4); the sword's damage type also becomes Slashing if it wasn't already.
The extra acid damage increases to 2d6.
The sword gains the finesse and reach properties.

TWIN
Weapon (any), very rare (requires attunement)
This magic weapon has an exact duplicate, and the two grant extra benefits when wielded in close proximity. Both weapons must be attuned to gain these benefits.
The wielders of the twinned weapons (if they are attuned by separate creatures) have a telepathic bond. Each understands all languages that the other does, and they can telepathically communicate within 60 feet. Additionally, both are treated as proficient with the weapon as long as one of them has that weapon proficiency.
When both twinned weapons are being held and are within 60 feet of one another, the weapon grants the following bonuses:
The weapons gain a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls.
The wielder of one twin has advantage on attacks against any target that the other is also attacking.
The wielder gains +1 to AC and saving throws. This bonus does not stack if both twinned weapons are being wielded by the same creature.

PROTEAN WEAPON
Weapon (any), legendary (requires attunement)
This magic weapon has a +3 bonus to attack and damage rolls. In its inactive form it is a dense, palm-sized, smooth metallic orb weighing 15 pounds. While you are attuned to this weapon, you can us a bonus action to mentally command the weapon to shapeshift from its inactive form into any martial or simple weapon, any two weapons with the light property, or a shield and any weapon that can be held in one hand. It can also be returned to its inactive form the same way.
In any form, the protean weapon can also be used as a spellcasting focus and additionally has 5 charges. For one charge, you can use your reaction when you would be hit by an attack to command the weapon to reform itself instantly into a barrier, granting you an extra +5 AC. This extra protection lasts until the start of your next turn, at which point the weapon returns to its inactive form in your hand. The weapon regains 1d4 charges daily at dawn.
If you are ever separated from this weapon you can call it to you as a bonus action, even from a different plane. The weapon teleports itself into your hand, as long as you have a free hand. If you do not have a free hand, the weapon reappears on the ground at your feet.
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The Imperator said:
Not for optimal parties, but for a general idea of the game I'm in for. Especially in something like Pathfinder/3.5, where if you don't have a healer, you're down for several days (to longer) between combats if you're out in the middle of nowhere exploring. I'd at least like to know what I'm in for before saying yes to a game :p I also don't like doing the same things as others, I like to build to fill holes in parties, rather than build something without considering what others are playing.
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I would probably have given strong consideration to playing a different char if I had realized how much Neomi and Lilith overlap as "bodyguard" defensive builds.

Also, I like cool tricks and synergies in builds, but as DM, I find that players hiding them from me to spring as a "gotcha" is not cool. The better I know what the players are doing, the better I can tailor to them. The Dire Weaselstorm is cited as an example of something cool rather than as a blight, precisely because the player was willing to work with the DM to not have it blow up the game. A player who brought that as her "shtick" would be unwelcome in most games.
 
Walker of the Yellow Path said:
Excuse me WHAT?

(I started in 5th edition)
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Does 5e still have attribute damage?

it was relatively rare in 3e, precisely because how deadly it got if you put effort into optimizing for it, but there were certain special attacks and powers that dealt damage directly to main stats rather than HP.

STR damage, DEX damage, CON damage, etc. Most poisons were expressed in this format in the old 3e stuff.

The Dire Weasel, which is basically a meaner giant version of a weasel, has an ability that let's it latch on with a successful bite attack and start draining CON.

Normally the Con damage is actually on the low side, so no biggie, and Dire animals, while impressive at low levels, are not high end combatants.

The Dire Weaselstorm has several other ingredients:

1) The Summon Monster line of spells happen to include the dire weasel as a summon option, at a certain level.

2) You can summon multiple monsters at a time by picking a lower tier monster than the level of Summon Monster you are casting. Eg, Summon Monster V can summon 1 monster from the (5) list, 1d3 from the (4) list or 1d4+1 from the (3) list.

3) The Alienist prestige class adds the Psuedonatural template to any creature you summon with a Summon Monster spell.

4) the Psuedonatural template gives a creature the ability to cast Truestrike once per day

5) Truestrike is normally a loser in the action economy past lower levels, but it does add +20 to your hit roll, which makes a creature that is normally outmatched able to at least land one blow with high confidence.


Add it all together and you can, as long as you have the spell slots, summon 1d4+1 Dire Weasels per round, each of which can Truestrike and have a very good chance of latching on to drain CON.

Enemies with AoE effects can probably fix this, but if you're fighting a Bruiser boss that focuses on slow but brutally hard melee hits... He's SOL.
 
Chloe Sullivan said:
I would probably have given strong consideration to playing a different char if I had realized how much Neomi and Lilith overlap as "bodyguard" defensive builds.
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And a big part of why I made Lilith so defense-oriented (such as ditching the two-handed weapon for a shield) was because at the time we had two other PCs who were more oriented towards dealing massive amounts of damage (a fighter and a stalker) so I decided to focus on no-selling everything thrown at me instead.

I feel that generally having players communicate with each other about what they're playing results in the whole group having more fun and less frustration, and can sometimes even let the entire party have a shared theme that fits well for the narrative.
 
Chloe Sullivan said:
Does 5e still have attribute damage?
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I think their are some monsters (maybe), but PCs can only get Ray of Enfeeblememt and lowering HP max I think.
it was relatively rare in 3e, precisely because how deadly it got if you put effort into optimizing for it, but there were certain special attacks and powers that dealt damage directly to main stats rather than HP.

STR damage, DEX damage, CON damage, etc. Most poisons were expressed in this format in the old 3e stuff.

The Dire Weasel, which is basically a meaner giant version of a weasel, has an ability that let's it latch on with a successful bite attack and start draining CON.

Normally the Con damage is actually on the low side, so no biggie, and Dire animals, while impressive at low levels, are not high end combatants.

The Dire Weaselstorm has several other ingredients:

1) The Summon Monster line of spells happen to include the dire weasel as a summon option, at a certain level.

2) You can summon multiple monsters at a time by picking a lower tier monster than the level of Summon Monster you are casting. Eg, Summon Monster V can summon 1 monster from the (5) list, 1d3 from the (4) list or 1d4+1 from the (3) list.

3) The Alienist prestige class adds the Psuedonatural template to any creature you summon with a Summon Monster spell.

4) the Psuedonatural template gives a creature the ability to cast Truestrike once per day

5) Truestrike is normally a loser in the action economy past lower levels, but it does add +20 to your hit roll, which makes a creature that is normally outmatched able to at least land one blow with high confidence.


Add it all together and you can, as long as you have the spell slots, summon 1d4+1 Dire Weasels per round, each of which can Truestrike and have a very good chance of latching on to drain CON.

Enemies with AoE effects can probably fix this, but if you're fighting a Bruiser boss that focuses on slow but brutally hard melee hits... He's SOL.
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Oh. That's evil.
 
Chloe Sullivan said:
I would probably have given strong consideration to playing a different char if I had realized how much Neomi and Lilith overlap as "bodyguard" defensive builds.

Also, I like cool tricks and synergies in builds, but as DM, I find that players hiding them from me to spring as a "gotcha" is not cool. The better I know what the players are doing, the better I can tailor to them. The Dire Weaselstorm is cited as an example of something cool rather than as a blight, precisely because the player was willing to work with the DM to not have it blow up the game. A player who brought that as her "shtick" would be unwelcome in most games.
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Yeah, I would have told you, but high level builds of classes I'm unfamiliar with are hard to parse, sorry about that.
 
Chloe Sullivan said:
Does 5e still have attribute damage?
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Yes, but not many things can do it. Shadows (type of undead) can drain Strength, and they're the only thing that comes to mind.

The Shadow's statblock said:
Strength Drain: Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 9 (2d6 + 2) necrotic damage, and the target's Strength score is reduced by 1d4. The target dies if this reduces its Strength to 0. Otherwise, the reduction lasts until the target finishes a short or Long Rest.
If a non-evil humanoid dies from this Attack, a new shadow rises from the corpse 1d4 hours later.
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Arawn_Emrys said:
Even then it's still nerfed from prior editions. I really think they need to bring back longterm status ailments and other effects that last beyond long rests.
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What, and make Clerics an absolute necessity for a viable party? I actually like how you can have a chance of not being entirely screwed without a healer - or without other roles, like my first adventure where we had no lockpicker so the two fighters just alternated kicking down every door we came across.

In 5e you can usually just retreat to somewhere safer and rest up - it rewards being even modestly tactical.
 
Strunkriidiisk said:
What, and make Clerics an absolute necessity for a viable party? I actually like how you can have a chance of not being entirely screwed without a healer - or without other roles, like my first adventure where we had no lockpicker so the two fighters just alternated kicking down every door we came across.

In 5e you can usually just retreat to somewhere safer and rest up - it rewards being even modestly tactical.
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It takes away from any idea pf having to think strategically if all you have to do is retreat a little and rest. NWN got panned for having that very feature. Going in unprepared should result in a total party wipe, a full retreat to a town, or clever strategy for dealing with the cards you've been dealt. ACTUAL strategy, not "per fight" but "managing my respurces to get through this whole place"
 
Strunkriidiisk said:
What, and make Clerics an absolute necessity for a viable party?
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One of Cleric, Druid or Bard, subclass may or may not be needed. Subclasses for Sorcerer and Warlock to perform the task available at developer/GM discretion. This is one of those things where 5e bungles the use of its mechanical framework, because we don't have any proper role-switching or downside-removing subclasses to get around flaws of the system, or get around flaws of previous design philosophy while retaining the mechanics responsible.
 
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