Dungeons and Dragons Megathread

On the other hand, that Saga Edition let you get half your level on your untrained skills meant that characters still had some chance to succeed when they did stuff outside their usual comfort zone, like those adventures from the Dawn of Defiance campaign where the PCs had to play in a sabaac tournament to rescue a shipload of slaves or crash a high-class party and impress the guests to get the attention of a smuggling contact.
 
On the other hand, that Saga Edition let you get half your level on your untrained skills meant that characters still had some chance to succeed when they did stuff outside their usual comfort zone, like those adventures from the Dawn of Defiance campaign where the PCs had to play in a sabaac tournament to rescue a shipload of slaves or crash a high-class party and impress the guests to get the attention of a smuggling contact.
that's true, but it still felt too same-y to me, I wanted a little more spice with my skills, to go along with the massive amount of talents I could pick from. Guardian Spirit Jedi talent/feat train (can't remember which it was) was hilarious.

Yes, three feats/talents in you could spawn a force ghost and have it debuff opponents, and all the way down the chain I believe you could use it to buff yourself and debuff and actually do things.

things like that just made for fun builds that I used to do with friends all the time. Level 15 to 25 builds, all sourcebooks, then we had them fight in specific maps. It was the shit. It was easy to build a character up quick, once you found the build idea you wanted to follow, and it was fun to play mechanically.

I miss that game :(
 
I remember Saga edition being really good, but super annoying with how a jedi could just pick up talents to use their force manipulation for almost any skill, thus making them almost as good as my ace pilot with little investment.
 
I got in to an Eberron game using Pathfinder (on the Paizo boards).

I'm playing a half-elf socialize master summoner, originally from Cyre (more recently of Breland) and who doesn't like raising a hand to do much directly. Her Eidolon's going to be an Azata, but with the serpentine build so I'm going to play up the couatl connection.
 
Been a while since I asked this, and I've got a little better understanding of the EDIT: Pathfinder rules, so I've narrowed some stuff down. Would still like help with further doing so. Especially keep an eye out for redundant items, I had a few of those last time. This is for a Dwarven Fighter in a party with a relatively robust crafting engine (that the person who's going to be playing him has asked for my help with, so I'll be asking for your help with, in a later post.

That said, desired enchantments for armour:

Slot-taking:
Stanching (1)
Vouchsafing (1)
Medium Fortification (3)

Slotless:
Determination
Expeditious
Buoyant
Creeping
Delving
Glamered
Rallying
Comfort
Restful
Burdenless
Is there any spell that would fit for a Bouyant/Creeper-like effect (negate Armour Penalty) for Acrobatics? Maybe Cat's Grace? It certainly seems to be used for plenty of effects already! If so, assuming it doesn't give a bonus like Creeper does, does the Bouyant price of 500 gold for Light Armour or Shield, and 1,000 for Medium or Heavy sound good?
What other Str/Dex ones would be good to ditch the Armour Check Penalty, and have spells that could be tortured into it? Climb? Fly? Ride?

For a total of (assuming no alternative Bouyant/Creeper effects are parleyed with my DM) 51,650gp worth of enchantments when crafted. That's enough for a pretty damn good Wondrous Item, and that's not including the (hopefully) Adamantine Full Plate itself!

And next, the Wondrous Items, Rings, and Tattoos (Priced like Slotless, but takes an 'extra' slot of wherever the item would usually be. Can be suppressed like normal magical items with a Dispel, but can only be taken away by thoroughly defacing the tattoo (full-round action for each tattoo, target must be willing or helpless, provokes an AOO), or erasing them with the Erase spell, but the person the tattoo is on gets an extra save against the Erase, in addition to the Caster Level check for it to work). Remembering that adding new abilities to items is (usually) cheaper than going slotless.

Head
Nothing, wearing helmet

Headband
Headband of Mental Superiority +6

Eyes
Truesight Goggles

Shoulders
Cloak of Resistance +5, Juggernaut Pauldrons, Wings of Flying
Maybe the Cloak of Resistance as either a tattoo or a slotless (advice on which appreciated), and combine the effects of the other two?

Neck
Periapt of Health, Periapt of Proof Against Poison, Amulet of Natural Armor +5, Periapt of Wound Closure, Necklace of Adaptation
Maybe some of these as tattoos/slotless items? Adaptation is the cheapest, and Natural Armour isn't that expensive... maybe combine the two as a tattoo? That would be, um... (9,000(Adaptation) * 1.5(two seperate abilities) + 25,000(Natural Armour))/2(crafting) * 2('slotless') = 38,500gp (ouch) for the ability to breathe anywhere and have +5 natural AC, with it relatively difficult to take them away. Maybe make the Periapt of Health slotless, and just have a Proof Against Poison? Both of those would be lower-priority, considering Dwarf.

Chest
Some Protection From Evil item

Body
Robe of Stars, Xorn Robe (not really sure about either of these, but didn't see anything better... maybe go without?)

Belt
Belt of Physical Perfection +6

Wrists
Bracers of Continuous Shield

Hands
Gloves of Dueling
Tattoo of Weapon

Rings
Ring of Freedom of Movement, Ring of Evasion, Greater Ring of Inner Fortitude, Ring of Regeneration, Ring of Protection +5
Maybe some of these as tattoos/slotless items? Probably not the Regeneration, it would cost 90,000gp as a tattoo or slotless. Unfortunately it's also probably one of the two ones I'd most want not able to be taken away from me easily. Protection, Evasion, and Freedom of Movement are the three cheapest. Probably combining effects would be the way to go, try and get four ring's worth of effects in two rings, or three cheap rings as tattoos/slotless, and the two expensive ones as rings. Advice on which should be which would be appreciated.

Feet
Boots of Speed
Tattoo of Continuous Greater Longstrider (makes up for the lower Dwarf base move, and then some - gets the Dwarf up to 40 base move on foot, or an extra 10 to any other form of movement)

And now, the Slotless things:

Skill Bonuses, definitely Acrobatics, I'm taking suggestions on others.
Gauntlet of Rust, Normal (in it for the no-rust-monster effect, which doesn't get better on the Greater version. I can get better than that effect on weapons (no rust or warp, weapon is harder, has more HP, and is harder to sunder) without spending an enhancement slot, but armour takes a precious slot and isn't as good as the weapon version. This doesn't cost that much more, even slotless, compared to losing an enhancement slot)
Arachnid Goggles
Any of the things I listed as possible tattoos in the last spoiler, if you think they'd go better here.

And for all of these, working out priorities would be helpful. I know I want Comfort and Glamered on my armour ASAP, since that'll let me sleep in it and wear it to fancy balls, but past that? And what of the Armour ones should I forgo until I get my final set of Adamantine Full Plate, as opposed to the normal Full Plate I'll hopefully be crafting in the next few levels? As for why crafted Full Plate, instead of saving up for them, which would probably be faster given how long it's going to take to craft a full set of Full Plate, my character has a hangup about the 'tools of his trade' as a Fighter being things he crafted himself, rather than things he bought - you know your tools best when you make them, after all - but he does recognise that if he wants his tools to be as effective as possible, he needs them enchanted, which he can't do.

Thanks guys!
 
{Pathfinder, that Skull and Shackles group I keep bringing up}


Several of us have templates that give spell resistance, as CR+11. We have been using level+11, since that's easier to calculate.

The issue arises of level increases. Like, for example, monsters that have racial SR (like specific types of demons, for example) don't have their spell resistance increase if they gain class levels. So my character, with the Fey template, shouldn't gain more SR as he levels, correct, because it's from racially being a Fey that it happens in the first place? Or should the SR increase, since PCs are based on levels rather than racial hit dice?

Would it be the same for an undead template that grants SR, or different?

I can't find any PF or 3.X info on this, what happens if a Graveknight levels up, it's not a racial spell resistance because Graveknight is not a race.
 
{Pathfinder, that Skull and Shackles group I keep bringing up}


Several of us have templates that give spell resistance, as CR+11. We have been using level+11, since that's easier to calculate.

The issue arises of level increases. Like, for example, monsters that have racial SR (like specific types of demons, for example) don't have their spell resistance increase if they gain class levels. So my character, with the Fey template, shouldn't gain more SR as he levels, correct, because it's from racially being a Fey that it happens in the first place? Or should the SR increase, since PCs are based on levels rather than racial hit dice?

Would it be the same for an undead template that grants SR, or different?

I can't find any PF or 3.X info on this, what happens if a Graveknight levels up, it's not a racial spell resistance because Graveknight is not a race.
In 3.5 at least SR is either static or tied to HD. In general (so unless specified otherwise) racial SR is fixed (an Erinyes will have a fixed SR 20) while template SR is based on HD (a half-celestial has SR 10+HD, max 35). The one exception is for PC races, in that case usually SR is X + Character Level i.e: a Drow Wizard 5 has SR 16, since Drows get SR 11 + Character Level (5).
At least in 3.5 it's spelled out that level = HD for all calculations. If you go for CR=level, then when you level up your SR also increases.
 
{Pathfinder, that Skull and Shackles group I keep bringing up}


Several of us have templates that give spell resistance, as CR+11. We have been using level+11, since that's easier to calculate.

The issue arises of level increases. Like, for example, monsters that have racial SR (like specific types of demons, for example) don't have their spell resistance increase if they gain class levels. So my character, with the Fey template, shouldn't gain more SR as he levels, correct, because it's from racially being a Fey that it happens in the first place? Or should the SR increase, since PCs are based on levels rather than racial hit dice?

Would it be the same for an undead template that grants SR, or different?

I can't find any PF or 3.X info on this, what happens if a Graveknight levels up, it's not a racial spell resistance because Graveknight is not a race.
CR = base race CR + class level for anything with PC class levels, generally speaking. I means yes, there is a thing about how it should be base Cr + 1/2 class level for some cases, but for PC's that's dumb.

Your CR as a PC should be set equal to your ECL... which is basically Racial hit dice + level adjustment + class levels.

And yes, SR based on CR should scale.
 
So, I was originally going to play a Paladin in Pathfinder, but then I came across and instantly fell in love with the Wyvaran and the Bloodrager. I'll be taking the Draconic Bloodline, with the Rageshaper and Primalist archetypes because I want to focus on the natural weapons the Bloodline gives. The image of a massive winged dragon man berserking out to rip and tear huge guts is too good to pass up. Also, if I get the go ahead from my GM, I'll take 4 levels in Dragon Disciple. RAW I can't because Wyvarans have Dragon as a race, but it fits really well thematically so I'm pretty sure he'll let me do it. I have a tentative build for this, but since this will be my first time playing Pathfinder I'd appreciate some help.

Couple things: My group is using the dice pool system for rolling attributes, so the GM said we can't switch around the numbers. However, it's the games still a few weeks away and I can reroll the stats. I asked for and was granted different attribute bonuses as a Wyvaran, whose base bonuses don't mesh well with a Bloodrager. So to represent the Bronze Dragon lineage I have +2 STR, +2 CHA, -2 INT. In a 20 level build, it will be Bloodrager 16/Dragon Disciple 4, assuming I can take it. Otherwise it will be Bloodrager 20.

19 STR
13 DEX
15 CON
7 INT
10 WIS
19 CHA

Feats
1st: Power Attack
3rd: Telling Tail or Wing Bash if my GM will allow the 3rd party source. May do Claws focus instead.
5th: Improved Natural Weapons
6th (Bloodline Feat): Cleave
7th: Rending Claws (Here's where I start needing help, no idea what to do past 7th level)

Traits
Still deciding, the GM may decide to use the 3rd party book for Wyvarans.

Skills
Pretty much just going to pump Intimidate, Fly, and Knowledge (Arcane). Currently hard to do because of my shit INT, but I may reroll as I've said.
The claws granted by the Draconic bloodline benefit from the Rageshaper archetype, so at level 4 the claws will be upgraded from 1d6 to 1d8 (Improved Natural Attacks) and then to 2d8 (Rageshaper). Then at level 8, when the claws improve to 1d8 by themselves, INA buffs that to 2d6, 3d6 with Rageshaper. At level 12 they gain 1d6 elemental damage for a total of 3d6+STR+1d6. Dragon Disciple will give me a 2d6+1 1/2 STR bite attack, and if the 3rd party is accepted I can take feats for two secondary wing attacks at 1d6 and buff the tail attack to count as a primary attack, not just usable during Attack of Opportunity.

Primalist, which lets me trade a bloodline power for two rage powers, will be use to trade the Breath Weapon for...something, I'm not sure. The breath weapon can be regained through Dragon Disciple. Since Wyvarans already have wings, I'm wondering if I should trade the wings I get through the Bloodline. They are twice as good (30 (clumsy) vs 60 (average) upgrading to 80 (good)), but Draconic Bloodline also grants Fly as a spell, so I'm not sure.

The claws (and later the bite) only activating during Bloodrage is a pain, so I guess I'll need to grab a two hander to be useful outside of the rage.

Any help is appreciated.
 
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So 5e talk for a minute - the Tortle package recently got released. It costs $10 which goes to charity, but you can get the tortle race just by looking at the preview. The rest of it is some stuff for Tomb of Annihilation and a mini dungeon, but the tortle is more interesting.

It's a +2 Str, +1 Wis race, which I don't think has come up yet in 5e. They have a normal 30ft movement speed surprisingly and hold their breath really well, but they don't have a swim speed. They get an innate AC of 17 due to their shell, but cannot benefit from armour. They also get natural claws, for 1d4+str slashing, free survival proficiency and the ability to withdraw into their shell for +4 AC and advantage on Str and Con saves at the expense of falling prone and being able to do basically anything but emerge.

It looks like they make for pretty good strength monks, since their shell lets them dump dex without needing heavy armour proficiency. They also make good combat clerics, caster druids or any class melee where you want heavy armour but maybe can't afford it. They'd make unusual arcane casters, but I'd probably give it a shot.

They're fluffed as independent roamers who love to experience new things and only breed when at the end of their 'long' (but actually standard) life spans.

Images:
 
Feel like there's a dearth of Starfinder discussion in the thread so I thought the best way to fix that would to be actually talk about. I saw an article on a blog I really enjoy that typically talks about Pathfinder pertaining to Starfinder and contrary to popular consensus the writer appears quite disappointed in the game. Improved Initiative: Starfinder is My Biggest Gaming Disappointment of 2017

To start off I decided to assess where I agreed and where I disagreed:

I tend to agree with his opinion about the lack of backwards support for loyal Paizo customers, thankfully the transition isn't as dramatic as the change from 3rd to 4th but I still feel like more should have been done to ensure that Pathfinder materials could be seamlessly inserted into Starfinder. Further I feel like he doesn't go far enough with this criticism with regards to the Pathfinder Setting itself. In Pathfinder proper all the Starfinder stellar bodies are there but they're very much window dressing and never really show up in most of the materials except for a sourcebook that focuses entirely on that, of course I expected this to be reversed in Starfinder, with the focus shifted the opposite direction. Instead Golarion is gone and the possibilities of seeing it advanced technologicallly and how the various societies adapted to that are dashed.

Now as far as all of his issues go about the class support I see where he's coming from, but I don't fully agree. I agree with him on the matter that we should still see some of the classes we were familiar with, one glaring example of which should be the lack of Paladins despite the elevation of Iomedae to the Goddess of Humanity and "Spirit of Golarion". However, I don't agree with his assessment about magic classes or at least not universally. His argument was that he finds it unbelievable that magical skill would degrade as presented in Starfinder, I'm not inclined to agree since if we look at the Human starting ages it appears to take three and half years longer to fully train a Wizard to perform magic that is easily replicated by advanced technology that only takes a couple minutes or maybe hours of familiarization to utilize reliably. When you average Joe can replicate telepathy with a comm device or burning hands with a flamethrower that takes days or weeks to learn how to operate proficiently, interest in the arduous study of magic is going to falter.

Now I don't dislike Starfinder, in fact I'm super stoked about my group trying it out. However I do share some of his disappointment.
 
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I'm actually pretty happy about the class-reset that comes with Starfinder. Getting rid of the high- and low-powered classes is certainly a very good thing to do, and also just makes it way easier to design for the newly-adjusted rule systems.

And while the "mysterious gap in history" solution is really inelegant, I can understand why they didn't bother to update all of Golarions history. I just wish they had taken another solution, such as having historic records on Golarion, pre-spacefaring age, be lost in a large war when the spacefaring starts.

What I'm really unhappy about, as I've elaborated before:
- some classes just have bad design choices that really shouldn't have happened
- archetypes are just ugh, taking away far too many features and thus at the very least vastly reducing choice, if not being outright bland.
- how weapons and armor scale - by having half a dozen or more otherwise-identical models that just cost vastly more for dealing more damage - is just utterly bland and puts way too much focus on wealth
- broken starship rules at high levels due to scaling faster than your skills level up
 
- some classes just have bad design choices that really shouldn't have happened
Like having major class features spaced to be gutted by Archetypes. Envoy doesn't get a second Improvisation until level 8. Mechanics just don't get a mechanic trick at all until level 8. A lot of the classes have the Pathfinder style class ability selection entries either delayed until 8th level or removed entirely.
- archetypes are just ugh, taking away far too many features and thus at the very least vastly reducing choice, if not being outright bland.
They don't really take away all that many features, in terms of how many features they take away. Their real issue is that they tend to cut out a major section of a class entirely for a really long time, like Solarions only getting their first Revelation at 10th level. Mystic is almost entirely unaffected by feature loss.
- how weapons and armor scale - by having half a dozen or more otherwise-identical models that just cost vastly more for dealing more damage - is just utterly bland and puts way too much focus on wealth
Why. Will. You. Not. Give. Us. Point. Based. Item. Creation. Seriously, WHY THE HELL IS THE PROGRESSION OF A SINGLE VALUE GIVEN MULTIPLE ENTRIES!? It should not be hard. Just have a simple exponent apply to damage increases. Dice squared, multiplied by whatever is wanted, gets the cost curve desired.
- broken starship rules at high levels due to scaling faster than your skills level up
I think the rules were built for the various skill bonuses characters can trivially get, but that wasn't mentioned anywhere. Mystics get a +7 to Connection skills, Mechanics get +6 to Computers and Engineering, Envoys get 1d6+4 to skills of their choice from a list and you've also got item bonuses... There's lots of bonuses.
 
There is no tabletop game to let me pilot a robot and is based around that and is good. I tried to fix it but I failed.
 
Speaking of point-based item creation, I built a weapon in Pathfinder I'd like help naming the type of. The specific weapon, as in the one my character holds in his hand, I've already given a name, along with a name for the one I'll replace it with once we're rich enough for Adamantine item creation - but the weapon type I'm drawing a blank on. It's essentially a Dwarven Longaxe (1d12 S, x3, Reach), that through the Spring-Loaded quality, can gain or lose its Reach quality as a Swift Action, turning from using the Longaxe profile to the Battleaxe profile. The specific weapon is going to be called the Carnifex (Latin for 'The Executioner), and the Adamantine version will be called the Carnifex Magnus ('The Lord Executioner' or 'The Executioner Lord'), I'm stuck on an actual name for the style of weapon.

Not anything really important, but I'm going to be switching my Weapon Focus(Dwarven Longaxe) to Weapon Focus([this weapon]), and I'd like an actual name for the type of weapon.

Plus I think it's cool.

EDIT: Some ideas based around keeping to the theme that Pathfinder uses for its axes ([race name if applicable] [adjective] Axe). So, Dwarven Shifter Axe, Dwarven Protean Axe, Dwarven Versatile Axe, Dwarven Adaptable Axe. All except the first one are probably too many syllables - maybe Adaptable Axe could be cut down to Adapt Axe, and Shifter Axe might work better as Shift Axe, but the others sound like bad marketing names when cut down (Versa-AxeTM, Prote-AxeTM. Or even worse, VersAxeTM). ...actually, I guess Dwarven Versa-Axe could work... although that might be better for an axe that has a Piercing and Bludgeoning mode as well - like a spike on the end, hammer on the other side of the head of the axe. But even the best of those names don't really match up to Battleaxe, Greataxe, or Dwarven Waraxe...

Help would be appreciated.
 
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I think the rules were built for the various skill bonuses characters can trivially get, but that wasn't mentioned anywhere. Mystics get a +7 to Connection skills, Mechanics get +6 to Computers and Engineering, Envoys get 1d6+4 to skills of their choice from a list and you've also got item bonuses... There's lots of bonuses.
Lol, not even that.
Let's be a 15th-level party, with a 15th-level starship - your upgraded Millenium Falcon style Explorer. Though it doesn't matter what kind of starship it is really, unless you get massive crew-bonuses (more on those later).
You want to do an Evade-maneuver, or your Science Officer wants to balance the shields, or basic stuff like that. The DC for that? DC 45
Gods forbid you're a captain who wants to give Orders to give crew members additional actions, or and Engineer who wants to overpower one of it's systems, because those have a DC of 60.

So you're 15th level and up against a DC of 45.
You obviously get 15 ranks from your skill, and 3 from being trained in it. That leaves 27 points you have to get somehow.
You can get +4 from being the right class, at this level. - an Engineer for Engineering or Science, an Envoy for Captaining, a Technomancer for Science, or a Mystic or Operative for anything. 23 to go.
You start with a 17 or 18 in the relevant score, increae it three times to 20, and then add a MK 3 Personal Upgrade to it to go to 26. That's a +8 bonus - 15 points to go.
You'd think you could take Skill Focus to go further, but it's an Insight bonus - so it doesn't stack with any of the bonuses you get from your class.

So that's that. To perform a basic starship action, a really specialized character only has a 25% chance of success.
Fortunately, I left something out - Starship computers can add a significant bonus to that. If you sink a fifth of the build points you get at this level into your computer, you can give two people a +7 bonus to their check. That puts them from a 25% chance of success to a 65% chance - so you'll still fail a third of the time.
And of course, the computer can only grant it's bonus to two people at once. So if you have a captain, a science officer, an engineer and a pilot - better pick which two of those have a reasonable chance of success.

Okay, one last thing - your Captain can also Encourage people, giving a +2 bonus. That's reasonably doable, with a DC 10 in the skill they are using or a DC 30 (at 15th level) in Diplomacy.
They could even try to make a Demand of them, using Intimidate, but that'd be right up to DC 45 so good luck.
This of course means that the Captain is in a ton of cases just relegated to providing minor bonuses, which I imagine becomes boring really quickly.

Oh, and none of this touched on the DC (15+ Tier x3) checks. Because even with computer assistance and maximized build and a succesful demand from your captain, good luck making a DC 60 check - all the bonuses add up to +41, so you have a 10% chance of success.


Of course, you then add +2 to the DC of all checks at level 16, while only getting another +1 bonus. At level 20, you'll have gotten +2 from your class source, maybe +1 from an attribute increase, and the very best starship computer ever adds another +3 (and eats as much build points as a dreadnought chassis).
Your DCs went up to 55 - a 10-point increase, while your bonuses increased by +6 (with the computer that is). Your chance of succeeding at anything have actually dropped, down to nothing without computer assistance (even a 20 wouldn't be enough unless it's an auto-success), a 30% chance with computer assistance, and a 40% chance with computer and captains assistance.
A hard task now has DC 75. Zero chance of success even if you focus everything on it.


So I mentioned crew bonuses.
Obviously, you don't get those in tiny, small, medium or even most of the time with Large ships. And everything larger is supposed to be for NPCs (it states so on p. 305 under "upgrading systems", it needs GM-discretion).
But even then, there's no actual rules for that crew assisting you. Can you use Aid Another? In that case, just assign 5 crewmembers for a simple +5 bonus, in which case big starships reign supreme. If you can't, there's no framework at all.


Bottom line:
Even a very optimized character does, at higher levels, only have a worse-than-even chance of actually doing anything during each starship combat round.
Unoptimized characters have no chance at all - want to be a combat engineer who doesn't pump Intelligence as much as possible? Good luck doing even the most basic starship tasks at higher levels. Nevermind a class that doesn't get a scaling skill bonus - those can keep up for a while with skill focus (which gives +3), but at high levels they're just out of luck. At least you can always be a gunner.

But it gets worse than forcing players to utterly optimize and then still failing a lot. Eventually, you just need your starship computers assistance - but only two people can get that at most, ever. Which means the main tactical decision each round is "which role do we actually need this round", and I guess everyone else spends a round doing nothing.

And let's not forget how things are utterly disfunctional for the checks that scale at tier x3, because eventually it's just impossible to do those anymore.

It's just utterly baffling how any supposedly-experienced game designer could think that a DC that scales faster than your level increases was a good idea. The Truenamer had that exact same problem and is infamous for it for a reason. The only somewhat-reasonable design goal I can think of is to force players into lower-tier starships than they could afford, but in that case why not just adjust the tier you can afford? And even then it'd still force hyper-optimization and utter specialization just to keep up.
 
Also, for a Fighter with 16 Strength and 15 Con, who wants to put 4 of their stat upgrades in Strength and the fifth in Con, where would you put the Con one? First, at Level 4? Or third, at Level 12? One delays getting to Strength 18 and getting +4 melee attack bonus and damage until level 12, the other delays getting that retroactive extra hit point. I've got a feeling I should shoot for the extra hit point ASAP, but on the other hand, that 18 strength at Level 8 is calling me...
 
Well, this thread is kind of specifically about D20 system games, but in other systems there are games with the option to be a mecha pilot, like BESM and Rifts.
I know of at least four d20 systems/products (Dragonmech, d20 Mecha, d20 Future, the Arcforge playtest for Pathfinder) that allow you to be a mech pilot, but good I'm less certain about (especially since I haven't actually read the Dragonmech ones).
 
Plain old d&D 3.5 has dozens of ways to simulate piloting a warbot with a little creative reflavoring.

Segregation of fluff and crunch, yo.
 
That was one of the stranger artifacts in the 1st edition DMG.

Not quite as strange as the Machine of Lum the Mad, but pretty close.
 
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