- Location
- The Hague
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If you're going to make calls about how everyone feels about a thing it's not outrageous to mention someone who really does not. You're opening the topic to discussion, yeah?
Cyberpunk 2077: Rockerboy Keanu Silverhand
- Thread starter inukai44
- Start date
- Megathread
If you're going to make calls about how everyone feels about a thing it's not outrageous to mention someone who really does not. You're opening the topic to discussion, yeah?
- Location
- Somewhere in the stacks
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I really do not have the energy or patience to listen to a cis dude talk about they think their trans friend feels.
If you go back and read my post...
I never say all trans people feel the way I do about cyberpunk or that all of them even like cyberpunk. It's about settings that allow or self-alteration and self-actualization, something that shows up in some cyberpunk works. And explains why I like cyberpunk despite it being a dystopian capitalist hellscape.
So no, I didn't open that door.
- Location
- The Hague
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's hardly what I think, thank you very much. We've been close friends for over twenty years. I don't expect you to know that, but friends talk. Regardless I apologise for suggesting you were attempting to speak for everyone, that was my bad. But my overall point remains.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
@Ford Prefect you're falling into the same sort of thing you did in the Rage Cage thread. Just letting you know.
- Location
- The Void
Edit: Ah nevermind I see someone already beat me to it.
Last edited:
Basically you had the Humanity stat, which was your Empathy (social stat for dealing with individual people rather than crowds and media) times 10. Getting augmented (generally) subtracted from this, and if you hit 0 Humanity you went loco. Costs generally increased based on how drastic and traumatic the modifications were. Something that was done gradually and had minor effects, like a treatment regimen and genetic tweaks to become swole, could have humanity costs of 1 or even 0. On the flipside becoming a bulletproof war cyborg capable of benchpressing a car, running at highway speeds, and dodging bullets might cost you 42d6 Humanity, easily taking you from zero to psycho in no time flat.
There are, however, various ways to avoid this sort of thing. If you had the money to burn, you could go to specialized European clinics to halve the humanity loss. You could then have intensive psychological therapy to halve the humanity loss again. That would take a passes-for-human full body conversion cyborg, who would normally eat a hefty 16d6 humanity cost, to a pretty trivial 4d6. The book gave options for gradually gaining humanity via monitoring and outpatient psychotherapy in the core, which I assume most people just forgot about and/or assumed required the removal of all cybernetics (but note that only the full mental restructuring requires that).
As to being viable without cybernetics? The 'framework' combat augs like boosterware, smartgun links, skinweave, and muscle lace are just way too powerful for way too little a cost. Going minimalist is pretty viable-the main thing is getting the most reflex possible so you can avoid being shot (both by avoiding bullets and by shooting people flinging bullets your way first), and survive being shot (which can be done by being swole and having implant armor). So no, I'd say not really.
And importantly in CP2020, armor is important as fuck.
You can take 12 points of damage without risking death saves (and risking failing death saves), and headshots deal double damage after armor.
A very basic 9mm pistol, dealing 2d6+1 damage, has a decent chance of exceeding that number on a single shot on a body or limb hit, and are very likely to exceed that on a headshot.
Basic skinweave is SP12-that reduces incoming damage by 12. Now instead of having to worry about instantly dying from a pistol bullet to the head if you don't go outside with some sort of head protection (which is either obvious or relatively ineffectual), you're basically immune to that kind of thing. This also means that even relatively light body armor will make you effectively immune to most handguns and SMGs, with only heavy SMGs and assault rifles being an actual threat. Unless you're a full cyborg, you're not going to tank your way through a dozen guys shooting at you with AP rifles (but note that a combat full conversion is absolutely capable of eating an entire magazine of 20mm AP rifle fire and not giving a single fuck) but it lets you survive a lot more pain than someone who is solely relying on body armor, particularly if you get ambushed.
You can take 12 points of damage without risking death saves (and risking failing death saves), and headshots deal double damage after armor.
A very basic 9mm pistol, dealing 2d6+1 damage, has a decent chance of exceeding that number on a single shot on a body or limb hit, and are very likely to exceed that on a headshot.
Basic skinweave is SP12-that reduces incoming damage by 12. Now instead of having to worry about instantly dying from a pistol bullet to the head if you don't go outside with some sort of head protection (which is either obvious or relatively ineffectual), you're basically immune to that kind of thing. This also means that even relatively light body armor will make you effectively immune to most handguns and SMGs, with only heavy SMGs and assault rifles being an actual threat. Unless you're a full cyborg, you're not going to tank your way through a dozen guys shooting at you with AP rifles (but note that a combat full conversion is absolutely capable of eating an entire magazine of 20mm AP rifle fire and not giving a single fuck) but it lets you survive a lot more pain than someone who is solely relying on body armor, particularly if you get ambushed.
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Wow just wow. For starters yes you are correct if Cyberpunk was interested in honestly being what it pretends to be then sure there should be trans-people and other non-conforming to the mainstream standards outcasts. Just one problem: Cyberpunk has always been about White Men and their own anxieties/awe about future technologies.
As such you are not talking about Cybepunk in general you are talking about Cypherpunk Cyberpunk. There's an indie game called Dex that pretends to be the regular Noir Cyberpunk and then switches gears ever so slowly to end as a Cypherpunk Cyberpunk.
And yes Cypherpunk as a genre is a deconstruction of both Noir and it's need to center White Men in it's stories. If you want broader Cypherpunk works in other genres try the Provost's Dog trilogy and the Circle of Magic books by Tamora Pierce and Death Parade an anime by Madhouse from a few years back. Of the four works I've recommended here only Death Parade doesn't have non-straight and non-binary characters in it and Dex has a trans character as one of the main characters and yes it is spelled out in the main plot of the story that the character is trans without anyone having to say it by basically having in the game a skill set that is only usable by one gender because the technology that is being used for said skill is being tested on only one gender. Of course the parameters of the test mean that the gender in question is assigned at birth and not the actual gender of the test subjects so one of them is trans and is one of the main characters of the story.
In cases where it is anarchy that is causing the dystopia there is always anarchist capitalism in the setting and it is what keeps the dystopia dystopian.
Again you are talking about Cypherpunk and not Cyberpunk with it's it's Noir firmly centered on White Men most of the time.
Accurate. More accurate would be to say that any punk made that ignores transgender folk (and their history in the movement) is made by overly anxious people who just want to explore their own sense of control and not any real world issues. After all anxiety is a paranoia of the different and the strange.
Actually from my understanding the whole cybernetics eats your soul is a trope created by people bitter about Necromancy (the study of the dead and their deaths specifically to gain knowledge) being the one divination that has done genuine good in the world in the long term. There are plenty of various divinations in the world, but of the ones that purport to heal people only Necromancy has brought in any scientifically viable results. Or did you miss the part where our modern medicine is descended from what could be called a School of Necromancy?
It is historically more complicated than that of course as the scientific method and it's philosophical precursors have a long and storied history connected to the various concepts of divination, but in the modern day the societal consensus among most popular writers is that the modern day medicine is a type of Necromancy even if most of them never come out and fully say it.
By that definition Cyberpunk as a genre is going to be deconstructed in the next 20 years into either a new genre or a new version of itself. Also you missed the point on the trans issue brought up: It's about the genre not having any trans characters even though in real life it is some trans-people that are already living in a form of Cyberpunk.
Well actually corporations aren't destroying the world nearly as much as they used to. This is a combination of reaching Late Stage Capitalism as a Global Society and activist actions that have forced corporations to curb some of their worst impulses. Of course the corporations won't go down without a fight and at this point it is clear that a lot of the really big ones need to be wiped of the face of Humanity as a whole to make this existence any kind of long term better.
You are made a really bad argument with this post. Like racist grandpa levels of bad. Also missing the point of what is being talked about.
Just because you are friends with someone for twenty years doesn't mean that you know them inside and out. Like for fucks sake I'm 31 at this point and have lived with my sibling my whole life and the bastard still doesn't get most of what goes on inside my head. Also you only apologized for misunderstanding the original point, not for sticking your foot up your mouth.
Last edited:
- Location
- The Hague
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's a very 80s genre, it's arguably been really out of date for years
- Location
- United Kingdom
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I don't think any definition of Cyberpunk but your own has it being explicitly only about white dudes.
Maybe a lot of works in the genre have been about white guys, but that doesn't mean it definitionally has to be. That doesn't seem controversial, but maybe it is.
Maybe a lot of works in the genre have been about white guys, but that doesn't mean it definitionally has to be. That doesn't seem controversial, but maybe it is.
- Location
- The Hague
- Pronouns
- He/Him
There's an argument, I think a good one, that cyberpunk is mainly rooted in noir cinema, and that being the case Humphrey Bogart is probably the archetypal cyberpunk protagonist. Not even a particular role he played, just literally Humphrey Bogart, in much the same way John Wayne is the archetypal western protagonist. But just as you didn't need to cast John Wayne to have a western, you don't need to cast Humphrey Bogart* and can instead expand the horizons of the genre.
*that said i would be up for a cyberpunk story where the protagonist is literally humphrey bogart, like he got frozen accidentally during filming for the big sleep and then gets defrosted a hundred years later, like that sherlock holmes cartoon
*that said i would be up for a cyberpunk story where the protagonist is literally humphrey bogart, like he got frozen accidentally during filming for the big sleep and then gets defrosted a hundred years later, like that sherlock holmes cartoon
That's not the kind of anarchy being referred to (nobody calls ancaps anarchists, least of all anarchists!), but this need to push all of cyberpunk into a rage against capitalist is just boring. Capitalism is a great tool to use to talk about alienation, but the idea that it's the be all and end all is silly. The way technology enables our worst impulses, creates prisoner's dilemmas we constantly defect in, and end up showing the worst parts of our soul is the core of cyberpunk. Black Mirror's Nosedive is an excellent example of this; rip out our capitalism system, replace it with Likes and Welcome to Hell.
Now I'm imagining Humphrey Bogart starring in Sleeper and choking on my coffee
- Location
- United Kingdom
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Changing to a different currency does not actually mean you've changed the system, though. Like, I've googled it, and it looks like a pretty thinly veiled point about capitalism in and of itself. Maybe it's different in the actual show, but from what I've seen from Black Mirror? It probably isn't.
It's pretty blatantly about how the status rat race is its own thing; nobody worries about money so instead you just move to the next way of hating each other and trying oneupmanship.
Black Mirror has some great "use capitalism to talk about horrors" episodes, but Nosedive is a great example of flipping the script and going "even without the private ownership of property social media technology is basically evil." Definitely go watch the episode, it's great.
Now I'm thinking of that one movie where people would use time travel to steal healthy bodies from 'accident' victims in the past as replacement parts, with Humphrey Bogart as the target instead...
So yea, thinking of the whole 'humanity' trait being related to how many cybernetics you have, the only actual setting that I can justify it in now would be Shadowrun, since that's less about you being a person, and more about how magic views you, if you're alive or an object in it's view.
Plus, there's a point I've seen made in the past. Cyberpsychosis, as described in the game, is LITERALLY how some people play video games like GTA. Instead of having it be connected to the amount of cybernetics a player has, it can instead just be like the Star system in GTA, a hidden value judging you on how 'humane' you're acting in verse and the NPC's reacting to it in response.
Last edited:
I mean, arguably, it has already heavily changed in response to the stuff that has been written in the genre? People don't talk about "post-cyberpunk" being a thing for no reason.It's a very 80s genre, it's arguably been really out of date for years
Also, like, on the topic of portraying body modification in terms of positivity, I've been (re-)reading Gibson's Sprawl trilogy, and it's actually kinda interesting to see that body modification in these works (written by one of the earliest representatives of cyberpunk) is treated as just... this background thing, in many ways? And it's not always portrayed in a positive light.
Like, Mona Lisa Overdrive, as an example, features a teenage prostitute born off the grid being sold/kidnapped by a bunch of amoral corporate bastards and then being given involuntary cosmetic surgery in order to become a body double to a famous actress. It's creepy and weird and gross. The other most prominent example of body modification, "Sally Shears", has quite a few body modifications that make her a more effective killer, but the hints made at her past don't seem to imply that it was done because she really liked those modifications, but because they would give her an edge. It has also a minor character who has undergone a "chemo-penal" sentence, which basically means he was drugged against his will and cannot remember his time in jail, has constant memory problems, and is tortured by psychoneurological issues. On the other hand, the setting also shows that it's actually possible to decisively cure drug addiction, so there's that silver lining?
Like, there's a lot of stories about cyberpunk where the main topic isn't necessarily the positive portrayal of body modification, but to also show how a society that uses this technology can abuse it to get power over others. They don't necessarily need to be corporations, sure, but they will quite likely be corporations involved.
Mind, Gibson's work doesn't really focus on body modification as much as it does on the creation of AIs surpassing human intelligence and how they interact with ordinary humans connected to the internet, but there's room in cyberpunk for stories with a greater focus on body modification, and it'd be nice to get stories in the genres that embrace it in order to speak to those who think it would help them become who they want to be, so like, at the end of the day I can completely understand why people might be aggrieved at the possibility that there will be no modification-positive messages in this game at all.
Last edited:
Until I see otherwise I'm going to assume that the game will have examples of both in it, positive and negative - The demo seems like it at least.
Reveen
Castro-Trudeauist
It's not like the idea that cybernetics may have inherent problems is inherently wrongheaded and shouldn't be explored. Even without extrapolating from cartoonish shitty tech industry practices there are a lot of problems.
For example, unless it's being developed literally by the military computer software kinda sucks ass. It can glitch out, slow down, crash for no obvious reason, and even if your on top of updates a mishandled one can fuck everything up. There's a reason why there's so many jokes about how stupid and dumb software development can be. So if you want to replace part of your brain with a computer then yeah maybe it's better and more effecient but it's also more fuckup prone.
Or howabout parts and repair? Say what you will about the human body, atleast I don't need to come in to the shop every two years to get my hamstrings replaced so I can keep walking. Atleast my lungs don't have filters that need to be changed so I can breathe. Atleast I can't be stopped by a cop and given a ticket because one of the lightbulbs embedded in my ass cheeks went out. And that's just with cars, you're getting into a whole other world of costs and points of failure with super advanced prothesis. It's not even a capitalism driving up costs thing, because the people who can repair your cyber-arm probably deserve to get paid that much.
Of course this isn't a problem in transhuman fiction, because that assumes that we've solved the problems with technology so it can solve our actual problems. But cyberpunk is supposed to be somewhat grounded in shitty reality. And shitty reality is that our most advanced consumer-tier technology is kind of shit and will probably get us killed if we put our lives in it's hands. There's a reason why currently existing prosthetic body parts aren't "cyber".
You don't need to get into "essence loss" or some other floofy woofy new age bullshit to say "maybe cybernetics aren't the best idea in the universe". You just need to hit CTRL-ALT-DEL to exit a program from the task manager because it locked up for no fucking reason for the millionth time, then extrapolate that concept to your brain.
For example, unless it's being developed literally by the military computer software kinda sucks ass. It can glitch out, slow down, crash for no obvious reason, and even if your on top of updates a mishandled one can fuck everything up. There's a reason why there's so many jokes about how stupid and dumb software development can be. So if you want to replace part of your brain with a computer then yeah maybe it's better and more effecient but it's also more fuckup prone.
Or howabout parts and repair? Say what you will about the human body, atleast I don't need to come in to the shop every two years to get my hamstrings replaced so I can keep walking. Atleast my lungs don't have filters that need to be changed so I can breathe. Atleast I can't be stopped by a cop and given a ticket because one of the lightbulbs embedded in my ass cheeks went out. And that's just with cars, you're getting into a whole other world of costs and points of failure with super advanced prothesis. It's not even a capitalism driving up costs thing, because the people who can repair your cyber-arm probably deserve to get paid that much.
Of course this isn't a problem in transhuman fiction, because that assumes that we've solved the problems with technology so it can solve our actual problems. But cyberpunk is supposed to be somewhat grounded in shitty reality. And shitty reality is that our most advanced consumer-tier technology is kind of shit and will probably get us killed if we put our lives in it's hands. There's a reason why currently existing prosthetic body parts aren't "cyber".
You don't need to get into "essence loss" or some other floofy woofy new age bullshit to say "maybe cybernetics aren't the best idea in the universe". You just need to hit CTRL-ALT-DEL to exit a program from the task manager because it locked up for no fucking reason for the millionth time, then extrapolate that concept to your brain.
Last edited:
Remember that traditionally Deckers and Riggers would do their own software on hardware boards they built themselves.
But otherwise yea I can TOTALLY believe that.
Plus, like the example in Deus Ex, you could always have hacks installed from official firmware updates.
I sure would worry about that happening all the time, and end up screwing my own implants up with my own shoddy maintenance.
But otherwise yea I can TOTALLY believe that.
Plus, like the example in Deus Ex, you could always have hacks installed from official firmware updates.I sure would worry about that happening all the time, and end up screwing my own implants up with my own shoddy maintenance.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
Tamora Pierce is about as cypherpunk as my pale white 'insert slang for bodypart here, adjust for rudeness', and I say this as someone who grew up reading her books and who wants her to hurry up and finish the Trish storyline already. Tamora Pierce write progressive, novels. Tamora Pierce writes heavily 'you go girl' novels that almost all not only assume a balance of gender equality that we lack it today, but wouldn't work without it (well except the Provosts dog books, and we really don't talk about how shitty the third book of them was). Tamora pierce is a militant feminist who deliberately makes sure that everyone knows her blog is a strong opinion zone, and doesn't write stories about breaking boundries as much as she does writing stories after the boundary was broken, and why it was such a stupid boundry in the first place that she barely pays it any attention in the first place.
(Well except how Thom and Roger were meant to be more clearly lovers in the original drafts of lioness rampant, but she was still building her career then).
She is not a Cypherpunk writer, because she has nothing to do with telling stories that mix more traditional cyberpunk with a study of strong cryptography. She would almost never write a story about reclaiming ones privacy in a cyberpunk dystopia, because she'd write a more traditional science fiction story in the first place, which would have the privacy as a given.
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Anarchist Capitalists are still Anarchists and Capitalists even if most Anarchist like to stick their fingers in their ears and go lalallalalalallalala and ignore what that says about human nature. Also listing Social Capitalism as an example of a system without Capitalism just shows that you don't understand what Capitalism is.
Social media technology was built around the idea of quantifying and using Social Capital in our Capitalist Society so no it's still Capitalism just Late Stage Capitalism which is interested in extracting value from more abstract concepts present in society like say popularity, friendship or other types of social interactions. In case you didn't know in the Marketplace of Ideas Attention is Currency/Money and can be spent or squandered like any other currency.
First of all Mona? That prostitute that gets kidnapped and cosmetically altered? Would not come from the place Gibson had her come. Then there is the whole Sally Shears/Molly Millions issue of her being fap material. No literally Sally/Molly is there for the fanservice like a big breasted anime girl in an Isekai. Some people think that is all she is and some people think that she is also a complex character on top of that. As for the guy who was abused by the state? Nobody remembers him or what he did in the last book of the Sprawl trilogy unless they are big Gibson geeks or have re-read the trilogy recently is my impression and since I haven't re-read the trilogy recently I got nothing.
That is not how drug addiction works and also that was done so that Case would have a leash on him that would make him behave for a given value of behaving. So no that is no silver lining since it was a corporate underworld asshole taking away someone's method of self-medication and giving them a replacement that also acted as a leash to keep them compliant.Third the Tessier-Ashpool family that builds the AIs in the trilogy is an expy of the Rothschild family so turn on your antisemitism detectors to subtle bullshit levels.
Gibson, like a lot of authors from his generation, wrote his anxieties and fetishes into his works and it shows.
Military software is of high quality and doesn't have shitty failures? The fuck? No, just no. Military hardware and software is known to be more error prone than the civilian stuff because the military only has it tested for bugs and crashes if it will affect their bottom line. Like I don't know why Cyberpunk is so obsessed with military grade hardware when it real life unless it was made by a genius or a professional military personnel not looking to cheat a buck out of the system or by a politician with an interest in making sure that soldiers on the ground using the hardware are getting the good stuff (or any and all combination of the three) military hardware and software is shit that will get outplayed by a competent guerilla tactician.Another reason why cybernetics are not being used in prosthetic body parts is that the current cutting edge models are being made by 3d-printing them as the main goal right now is to make prosthetics affordable for everyone who needs them to be able to use them so cybernetics are out of the question outside of someone with the knowledge, skill and resources deciding to make them a thing right now.
You intentionally miss what I wrote?:I was talking about Cypherpunk the literary genre that is concerned with the Cypher (as in the uncritically accepted part of Noir that assumes that everywhere and everytime you set a story among societal outcasts of a society they will look suspiciously like members of an US Roaring 20s gang and/or cast members of a Detectives Drama from the 50s and 60s and/or characters from trashy spy thrillers from the same eras) of the Genre of Noir and going Punk on it's bullshit.
I was not talking about the movement in Informatics Industries' circles that concerns itself with improving overall cryptography in the industries and stories about the industries which includes Cyberpunk stories.
OK so yes Pierce writes progressive in all of her work and also writes White Savior narratives like Alan Moore writes rape, violation and psychological scarring for his female characters' narratives: Often enough you are uncomfortable with recommending their work as a whole and so do it on a case by case basis. What do you mean her work isn't about breaking boundaries?:
The Song of the Lioness is about a woman breaking into a fully male dominated field as a pioneer (Also White Savior bullshit, Feminist wank that hasn't been seen since the 80s in the mainstream and homophobia against male on male action that would make Go Nagai stand up and take notice
Thom and Roger aren't meant to be a positive portrayal of homosexuality what with poor Thom being seduced and then killed by Roger
The Immortals is about a young Prince who is a Demigod and must master the power such existence brings with the help of a sorceress teacher that will later become a lover to learn to live in the world and of course to save the world from a Mad Emperor who seeks to use the resurging magic and the returning magical beasts as a means of conquest and who's actions bring the world closer and closer to ruin by slowly unsealing darker forces in the shadows. Of course the Demigod Prince is a woman and the older sorceress is a man (if you think that Numair isn't just a skillfully written older sorceress that teaches and then falls in love with the hero mixed in with Tamora's own fetishes I have to ask did the question ever enter your mind of what kind of a mage archetype Numair is?) and Tamora goes into some squick territory in this gender-bender of an old old tale, but the things people consider squicky in the tale are squicky in the original configuration as well (husband wifery anyone?).
The Protector of the Small is about a young woman walking in the path of her idol who in the previous generation was the first woman to break into a male dominated field as a pioneer and following in her footsteps to fully break open the field for women behind her while also dealing with sexism and discrimination in her occupation.
Tricksters is a cocktail of White Savior, power fantasy worthy of any modern overpowered Isekai protagonist and fucking your bird boyfriend after he has had a journey to become a man that involved sex with other women. It's better than it sounds, but not good enough to recommend to anyone other than completionists of the Tortal universe.
Provost's Dog is a cypherpunk story about a pre-modern detective that plays with both Noir tropes and the idea of what and who a Noir detective can be and can face. I'm really curious to know what in the third book makes it so shitty? Breaking old patriarchal taboos that I have yet to see any other work break? Being bad at writing a type of relationship that the author herself and her circle of friends have no experience with? Having the main character be a Necromancer and be rewarded for it? The whole this is why slavery is bad okay anvil? Or something else?
The Circle of Magic books follow 4 kids (3 girls and 1 boy) as they grow up and grow into their powers and their place in the world. Each of the kids is from a different culture and part of their world. The books are Cypherpunk trough and trough it's just that the deconstruction of Noir starts with having the protagonists be a Corporate Princess (Duke Verdis is in character closer to a workaholic CEO than an actual Duke), an abandoned child of rich merchants, an exile from a conservative society of Romani-expys and a street rat from fantasy Singapore. Then it goes into story after story that I have yet to see in another Cyberpunk or Dungeonpunk that take you for a spin in choices of plot and main character action. Some of the stories are better than others with Battle Magic being the most egregious for being set in a war between Fantasy China and Fantasy Tibet with all the tact and consideration for the complexities of politics when translating them into fantasy settings of Black and White Insanity (Tibet good, China bad).
Last edited:
If you want to define capitalism as the things we do together then you do you, but I don't think that exactly undermines my core point.
Also how is cyberpunk a deconstruction of noir? It's very much a literal outgrowth; a member of the genre and not a reflection of it. I might be reading you wrong here but I just don't get this claim
Also how is cyberpunk a deconstruction of noir? It's very much a literal outgrowth; a member of the genre and not a reflection of it. I might be reading you wrong here but I just don't get this claim
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
My point is that at this late stage of development Capitalism has seeped into everything and in everything we do in our lives there is value extrection happening unless we take the time and effort to try not to do that.
Cypherpunk not Cyberpunk is a deconstruction of Noir.
CYPHERPUNK NOT CYBERPUNK IS A DECONSTRUCTION OF NOIR.
Edit:
The spacings don't work in quantity of more than one.
Last edited:
Okay, was just me reading poorly then, no problem!My point is that at this late stage of development Capitalism has seeped into everything and in everything we do in our lives there is value extrection happening unless we take the time and effort to try not to do that.
Cypherpunk not Cyberpunk is a deconstruction of Noir.
CYPHERPUNK NOT CYBERPUNK IS A DECONSTRUCTION OF NOIR.
Edit:
And that's really just ceding all ground to capitalism which kind of undermines any critique of it; people have been horrible and wonderful to each other since long before capitalism existed and will continue to be wonderful and horrible to each other for long into the future. Tying yourself into s framework of this being capitalism is a straightjacket for your imagination.
Like you can do a cyberpunk story about an ancom hacker commune which is ripped apart by murder (after it turned out one of the members tried to upload their bodiless wife into another person from the cloud for a threesome gone wrong). The technology is enabling us to do wrong, but it's a human story at heart