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Confringentur, Mk.2; a Madoka Magica / Fate/Stay Night crossover
- Thread starter SVS
- Start date
- Crossover
PlaguePaladin
The Bird Lady
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Oh boy a new update!
*Robert Walpole does the thing*
Oh boy suffering!
In all seriousness though, I have no clue how we're gonna do this. I'm going to defer to Jefardi when he has a plan, but I do agree that Medea is a high-priority target.
*Robert Walpole does the thing*
Oh boy suffering!
In all seriousness though, I have no clue how we're gonna do this. I'm going to defer to Jefardi when he has a plan, but I do agree that Medea is a high-priority target.
Oh god what have I done... I have responsibilities now...
SVS: Rule Breaker is a broken OP weapon that I will not let you have because it would break the game.
Also SVS: Here's an opponent with Rule Breaker.
But seriously, I don't think this Medea actually has Rule Breaker because:
IIRC, Rule Breaker as a Noble Phantasm was the crystialization of Medea being the 'Witch of Betreyal", and not something she actually had in life.
PlaguePaladin
The Bird Lady
- Pronouns
- She/Her
To quote the man himself in response to a similar question:
So yep, yeah. They are just familiars.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That makes planning hard since the extent of simulating their NP's done by walps corruption is difficult to guesstimate.
Would Medea have rule breaker?
Does Herc have 12 lives, and does he gain a resistance to whatever killed him?
Is excalibur as powerful as Arturias?
Can Medusas noble phantasm pull that bullshit thing where it petrifies you if you think about looking in her eyes, even if you did not do so physically?
Etc
Would Medea have rule breaker?
Does Herc have 12 lives, and does he gain a resistance to whatever killed him?
Is excalibur as powerful as Arturias?
Can Medusas noble phantasm pull that bullshit thing where it petrifies you if you think about looking in her eyes, even if you did not do so physically?
Etc
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PlaguePaladin
The Bird Lady
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I generally assume SVS's post to mean that Berserker's God Hand was replaced by the corruption-regeneration, but that may or may not be the case. But assuming it did replace God Hand, we've come into a spot of luck there, because we then know that we have a counter to it. If this is not so and Berserker has a faster version of God Hand, uh... crap.
- Location
- Around here
I want to clear things up for you guys, but it's unfair of me to give you information that Homura wouldn't have.
I also suppose you can assume similar logic for the other servants, to varying levels. Remember, Homura is fairly confident that these are just beefier familiars, regardless of their appearance, so treat them as such unless Homura gets blindsided. This is the final battle, after all.
This is the only one I'm going to outright give to you, the players. As far as Homura knows, these are just a new wave of absurdly strong familiars. Wally has made familiars in this manner before, and after seeing what our servants can do, it's no wonder Wally would have sculpted her newest familiars in the likeness of our own. Except, obviously she got a different set, but the point still stands.
I suppose this is technically the other one I've given you, but I want to say that there's no reason for Homura to have assumed fake Berserker would have the Godhand, on account of it clearly just being a beefed-up familiar and not the actual Heracles Archer told her about from his experiences in the Fuyuki Wars.
I also suppose you can assume similar logic for the other servants, to varying levels. Remember, Homura is fairly confident that these are just beefier familiars, regardless of their appearance, so treat them as such unless Homura gets blindsided. This is the final battle, after all.
- Location
- United States
So out of curiosity would things have gone worse, better, or just very differently if we had chosen to run or fight instead of defending?
By the way did we completely waste Unlimited Blade Works, or did it blunt the damage and keep World Destructor from wrecking the city even more?
Finally can Bazett use Fragarach again if needed? I'm a little hazy on the details, but I'm pretty sure it's a one use item that she crafts replacements of. In which case did she bring multiple or did she only have the one?
Also while I suspect/hope that these are just beefed up familiars and not proper servants that distinction won't mean as much as we would like. Having super-regenerating opponents who can fight at the same basic level as our servants is going to suck.
By the way did we completely waste Unlimited Blade Works, or did it blunt the damage and keep World Destructor from wrecking the city even more?
Finally can Bazett use Fragarach again if needed? I'm a little hazy on the details, but I'm pretty sure it's a one use item that she crafts replacements of. In which case did she bring multiple or did she only have the one?
Also while I suspect/hope that these are just beefed up familiars and not proper servants that distinction won't mean as much as we would like. Having super-regenerating opponents who can fight at the same basic level as our servants is going to suck.
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PlaguePaladin
The Bird Lady
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Run? I have no clue. It may have bought us time I guess, but given the strength of Walpy's World Destructor, I would say that it spells death. Fight? Unless Fragarach could save us, I'm gonna say that way also spells death, solidified by Homura's guess about what the attack would have been like had it succeeded:
You're right actually, scared as I am to say it. Whether these are as strong as the real ones or weaker, they're still Servant level threats, and thus are still a huge problem.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Them being just super regenerators would make this easier, especially the Gilgamesh.
I would argue Homura wouldn't treat them as just souped up familiars out of simple paranoia. Or at least ask someone else to check, say, Gil. She may also just follow Archers prerogative and take it seriously because he is.
Hmmm.
Archer immediately goes for range snipe on Artoria, while Gil uses imuru to see if opposite Gil is as strong as he is, and if so treats him as the biggest threat while setting up his mass servant summon spell incase he dies.
I would argue Homura wouldn't treat them as just souped up familiars out of simple paranoia. Or at least ask someone else to check, say, Gil. She may also just follow Archers prerogative and take it seriously because he is.
Hmmm.
Archer immediately goes for range snipe on Artoria, while Gil uses imuru to see if opposite Gil is as strong as he is, and if so treats him as the biggest threat while setting up his mass servant summon spell incase he dies.
- Location
- Around here
There's a much more complicated and less satisfying answer I could give you, but the short of it is that your choice between run, defend, or fight was a two-way split between how much collateral damage the city would have taken with an instant Bad End trap thrown in for good (bad) measure. Running would have guaranteed our survival no matter what, but would have also wiped a circular third of a kilometer of Mitakihara off of the map and sent shockwaves radiating out for about the remaining two thirds of a kilometer. In short, there would have been a circular kilometer of collateral damage done to the city had we run, but we would have been guaranteed to survived. Otherwise, we'd either have the result seen here, where the World Destructor is reflected and the collateral damage is greatly reduced, or it would have been a team-wipe and Homura would have gone back to the beginning earning us a Bad End. I did say it was the second most important vote of the quest for a reason.
UBW, no matter what we could have chosen, would have done nothing to stop the World Destructor from doing whatever damage out choice would lead to, and we are out its use for another eight turns. But I wouldn't call it "wasted" because in deploying it we did learn that the World Destructor has anti-world properties similar to Enuma Elish. If we hadn't used UBW that's information we wouldn't have currently, and now we can plan around it whereas if we didn't have that information we might have gone into the next use of the World Destructor thinking UBW could help us.
Bazett brought a full canister with her and has four uses of Fragarch left, but she 's limited in that she can only use it against an enemy when they bring out their strongest attack. Since it's also our best counter to the World Destructor, that means we probably only want to use it three times against Wally's familiars, just in case it takes us the whole 19 turns.
Unfortunately for us, Gil doesn't get to bring friends. We're stuck with the team we have, for better or worse.
- Location
- The End of Glory
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Wouldn't offense lead to using Ea, which would have resulted in a beam struggle? Both being anti-world things, and Ea amplifying mana a lot. (To the point of it being minorly charged sets it to being equal to excalibur, moderate and full charge above, especially with command seal amps)
Ah, ok.
Ah, ok.
- Location
- Around here
A lot. I can't give you a more precise answer than "a lot."
Hmm...
So... As long as we make sure to have at least someone focus on Wally each turn, than we should be able to take her down before she uses her super move again.
Ruler, plz halp.
Wait, is Enetious the ruler? Is that why he is gone, so the servants can fight a proper war?
Okay so I know I said I'm not going to post a vote until the weekend, but I'm gonna plan, and plan and plan and attempt to logic some stuff out before then because this is how I'm going to keep it from being overwhelming and confusing me and anyone else I talk to about this.
So at present we are 15 v 8.
We have some advantages; Walpurgisnacht isn't divine, else the chains would have effected it. And that would imply (along with what SVS has said) that the servants aren't divine. Which means that Rider is still invincible but not invunerable. He could get blackened/corrupted and that would be seriously fucked.
First thing we need to do is see if Master vision can get stats on these. Probably not, but there is no harm. Want to see if there parameters are significantly different then, say, they were in the Fifth Holy Grail War. Saber Alter does actually have downsides to her when she gets Blackened. Namely her agility and luck go to shit.
So lets break down our opponents.
KING ARTHUR; has Excalibur. Bad touch. No. We need to neutralize that. Bazett would be best for this, actually. She can 1v1 Saber as shown in FHA and then WIN using her ability. Lord Camelot shield might be also used quite effectively here since Alter!Saber's Excalibur Morgan is literally an evil attack and that shield is anti-evil.
GILGAMESH: Gate of Babylon. Honestly this fucker is going to get locked into a match with our Gilgamesh because that's about the only thing we can really do at this point. His two natural enemies are Lancelot and Archer, but since UBW has been busted, that takes out Archer. Lancelot meanwhile can fight against him but I don't think he can win. He can stalemate and honestly I'm not convinced that if Gilgamesh's ego didn't get in the way, Lancelot would have equaled him as much as he did in Zero. Also her mystic eyes are kinda gonna suck to anyone that cant resist it. Also given that Walpurgisnacht has access to anti-world, I'm pretty sure that this is a good time to keep our Ea in reserve in-case for some hell reason W!Archer can pull out his own.
MEDUSA: Might actually be the worst enemy we have. She is disgustingly powerful if we are going by her stats and more importantly, she has mobility to be EVERYWHERE. That being said, her best Noble Phantasm, Bellerophon is literally a divine beast. Don't know if this version of her would have it. I'm trying to think of a counter that we could have for her. Assassin has more agility then her, surprisingly, so that might be a good.
TRUE ASSASSIN: One of the only servants our Meguca could probably fight and win. His kali ma is less impressive considering that our hearts have protection on them. This is definitely one where we can free up a servant by having meguca sub in.
CU CHULAINN: Ugh, he's going to suck as well. Mostly because he is just good at anti-personnel fighting. Trying to think of someone we could have match him. OG!Lancer might be a candidate, if only because we can take a good guess that he could stalemate him while we get advantages on the others.
MEDEA: Uh, this one I'm still uncertain about. If she has Ruler Breaker she is number one target. Even if she doesn't, she's high on the priority list alongside W!Archer because like him, she can do wide range attacks. However, I'm pretty sure that our Caster can just turn her into a fine paste. She's particularly weak against Gate of Babylon in the visual novel.
HERACLES: Well... he big and he punch and swing real good. And his Eye of the Mind (False) will make it a bitch to try and do an ambush so brute force might be the best option... Achilles should have some fun...
Overall plan in my mind is four parts;
Fighting the enemy servants (who I will now call W!Archer, W!Saber, etc etc).
Launching attacks on Walpurgisnacht
Defending the group launching attacks on Walpurgisnacht from enemy servants
Defending against attacks from Walpurgisnacht.
Hopefully group 1 and 3 will be the same, but it'd be wise to keep someone back to defend in-case anyone makes it through. I'm voting our Archer, because he has versatility and he has 'Eye of the Mind (True)' which should help for any intercepts.
My general plan, looking over this is that we need/should isolate the enemy servants as we have a numbers advantage. Priority goes to those with range and speed. In that regard, W!Saber is the least mobile. W!Archer and W!Caster have highest priority as they can hit multiple people at once. Berserker should be left till later because he will need multiple people to bring him down. Further, I think we can have Meguca fight True Assassin. Maybe I'm looking down on him, but I think Kyouko with fire support from Mami could suppress him. Which frees up our servants for 8 v 6. Pretty sure Saber is uniquely suited for fighting W!Saber given much of the flavour text is about fighting swordsmen in her lore.
...I just realized that unless we are using the Sword of Paracelsus for all this, they are just going to reform. Fucking hell. Which means everyone outside of Archer, Lancelot or Assassin can at best ONLY put them down. Though Caster can probably do more, since, y'know, its Caster.
This also plays into another problem we have. I know we're probably all focusing on the enemy servants, but Walpurgisnacht is still there, most likely chucking buildings at us. Being evil, n'shit. Spreading out may make it have to spread out its attacks, but who knows.
At present, my current thoughts are a Gilgamesh fight, Meguca+Assassin v True Assassin, Achilles or Lancelot(Leaning towards Lancelot) v Heracles, Saber fight, Archer v Medea, OGLancer v W!Lancer and I have no idea for W!Rider.
Gil caster v Gil archer should be fairly even fight. The Heracles fight will be a holding action. Saber might be able to suppress W!Saber but won't be able to win. Archer might be able to win against W!Caster since he can weaponize Sword of Paracelsus into arrows and in canon he CAN win in a fight against her. OG!Lancer v W!Lancer should also be a holding action. Rider v W!Rider should be possible and could be a good holding action.
Archer needs to project Kibisis just as a precaution for Medusa.
...man if Kibisis is effective its going to be a weird, weird day for Walpurgisnacht.
True Assassin v Meguca + Assassin is honestly the breakthrough point, followed by Archer v Medea. Once we have a servant that we have actually killed, we can start to put more focus on others.
Again,this doesn't take into account Walpurgisnacht's own actions or attacking it. I think I'll have Homura do the Finitora Freccia Maggior attack, since she is one of the few that aren't in a good position for melee combat and we need someone to do damage.
Keep in mind, I'm just throwing ideas out at random, and I'm doing most of my thinking while typing this.
- Location
- Around here
This was completely unintentional, but since Enetious is confirmed to be okay this will be good practice writing servant-on-servant combat for when the sequel rolls around, in which an Apocrypha will be featured front and center. No word on who Ruler is or where they are, but wherever they are, they aren't here.
And, of course I forgot about this. Honestly, it'd be pretty useful against any corruption-based attack being flung at us.
And because, if we for whatever reason wanted to make Caster fight someone other than fake Archer, it would cost Mami at least a Command Seal to make him obey. Also I'm pretty sure you meant to put the part about Mystic Eyes with fake Medusa, not fake Gil.
If it makes you feel any better, the real Medusa is safe and happy in Fuyuki, completely unaware that we have to kill her evil doppelgänger. Who knows, she might have even found a boyfriend who doesn't mind the fact that she's freakishly tall (even though she's only 172cm).
You're not looking down on Cursed Arm. This is absolutely not a situation where he can fight at his best (fighting against powerhouse servants while unsupported by the Shadow, fighting against a party where half the party no-sells his only real offensive ability, etc) and everyone else on the enemy side is a much larger threat than he in this situation. Though I will say that, with A-rank agility, probably our best bet to match him is going to be Kure "Time Alter" Kirika, since she's the only one of us that can actually match him in agility. Kyouko is good, very good, but when she and Kirika fought Time Alter got the better of her the instant Kirika had a handle on the situation. Plus, Kirika really needs more time to shine in this quest overall.
Rider and Cu are frequent sparring partners, don't'cha know? And aside from him and our Cu we've got one more servant with a spear at our disposal.
Though I also imagine Rider might want to try his hand at fighting another one of Greece's greatest heroes, especially one who was also mentored by Chiron. It's just too bad these are the circumstances in which they have to meet.
I don't have anything to add here. Medea is going to be a bitch, that's all.
- Location
- The End of Glory
Really ? Phew
- Location
- Around here
He is according to Twix's report.
No idea when he'll be back, but he is at least confirmed to be okay.
Yes, you are right about putting it in wrong spot. I was literally typing as stream of consciousness style to brainstorm. Also, good to know about that with Gilgamesh. Though I was wondering if Fake Gil was going to get pissy about EMIYA!Archer
I think the only servant I might like as much is Saber!Nero, but that's mostly because she is just so much fun. As long as Sakura is safe and happy, Medusa don't really care, (except for the occasional dreams she causes in FHA). Happy snek is best snek.
Wait, this might have passed me by the entire time since we only ever fought her via Homura, but this interpretation of her powers she can time alter? I just thought her one thing was being able to move in Homura's time frame. INTERESTING OKAY THAT MAKES THIS A HELLUVA A LOT BETTER
I'm also realizing that Serenity is actually going to be one of our best pieces for breaking the dead lock. She has a A+ agility ranking which is higher than literally everyone else on the other team (especially poor Alter Saber, with her D Rank).
I think Achilles would be happier with fighting W!Berserker, but he'd be more effective fighting W!Lancer. So I think that might be where he is best served. Gilgamesh is locked into fighting himself, so that takes him out as a variable, which makes this easier for me. Archer should project Lord of Camelot pretty much instantly... @SVS how well do you rule on Servants fighting with other weapons? Like, say, how well would Achilles fight with a sword? Well, sword and lance probably, since he wields the lance one-handed.
Since Archer is going to be our projection
Then again, the magic is probably just going to be corruption, anywho.
Okay, so a plan is sorta coming together in my head.
True Assassin v Better True Assassin (with A+ Agility) + Kirika & Kyouko (Breakthrough point) (+)
W!Lancer v Rider (suppression is quite possible) (+)
W!Saber v Saber (suppression is possible) (+)
W!Berserker v Lancelot (activate Protection of the Spirits) (Unknown how this will go) (? result ?)
Gilgamesh v Gilgamesh (? result ?)
W!Caster v Lancer (Holding action result) (? result ?)
W!Rider v OG!Lancer????? SUPER UNCERTAIN WHAT TO DO WITH THIS
Archer projects shit we need, like Lord of Camelot & Kibisis and if has time, goes after W!Caster
Oriko does defense against whatever the fuck is going on.
Mami and Homura attack Walpurgisnacht.
Also Bazett and Miyuki... somewhere in there, I guess?
Here is the problem I run into. Oriko probably wont be able to do shit against that much buildings being tossed at us. Also OG!Lancer probably has some experience against W!Rider, but I suspect it's not a great match up for them.
Overall plan is to take out True Assassin as fast as possible, which can free up Better True Assassin to go after other targets. The more people we free up the more DPS we get on wallyworld. The amount of servants holding ours up is our bottle neck. Any progress outside of expanding the choke-point is only an illusion when it comes to a system. Technically if we could one-wave rush wallyworld that side steps it but I'm gonna press F to doubt REAL HARD on that.
Thoughts? Concerns? Suggestions?
If any of these servants were japanese, I'm telling you right now, I would be pushing so hard for Saber to do book of void + Wood Oar just to make the Wood Oar practical for once in its damn life.
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- Location
- Around here
He can try if he thinks he can take it, but the real Gil is going to be offended by the mockery made of his form, and will need to be compelled by Command Seal to fight anyone other than the imposter. And real Gil beating the shit out of you = priority over you beating the shit out of Archer.
Sakura is a published author and is doing quite well for herself.
It's always been Time Alter. She can speed herself up or slow her opponents down. The reason Kirika can move when time is frozen is because she adjusts her speed to be so fast that she can still move when time isn't.
She'll have to work fast, since she's going to be the first target of Cursed Arm. According to the wiki,
Achilles doesn't qualify for the Saber class, but I have a very hard time believing he would be totally unfamiliar with how to use a sword. Similarly, I have a hard time believing Bryn wouldn't know how to use one as well, though I would also rule that both of them are not going to be as good with a sword as they are with their chosen spears. Our Saber, unfortunately, is right out, because she is familiar with swords, but the weight, reach, and balance differences between her swords and the sword you want her to use would throw her off.
Yeah, but saying it's just corruption is like saying it's just cancer.
At the very least, if they manage to put them down (who they are fighting) and are able to get them to start to reform, they could do the stabby stab. Worth projecting two more swords.
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3
Well. Shit.