Confringentur 2; a Madoka Magica / Fate/Stay Night sequel

I just want to say; I know that all of these are passive and have low costs aside from the initial projection, but seriously, there's got to be some threshold where it starts to affect Archer's max mana pool, right? Other than that;
Archer really doesn't - at least not in the VN or anime - unless he's activating some kind of high cost Noble Phantasm past initial projection. For reference, if Berserker wanted to use God Force's Anti-Fortress bow and arrow, it'd probably draw magical energy for consumption from him and therefore Kirika.

EDIT: Since I was ninja'd.
What does this thing do that Arondight wouldn't do? With Arondight, Lancelot can slash, thrust, parry, swing wide for a long sweep, and hit with either the flat of the blade or the pommel in order to make a blunt strike, which are all the functions of this weapon as a soundly-constructed halberd. The only thing Arondight doesn't do is shoot - barring us being okay with Big Sis bleeding from the eyes from over-exerting her mana - but I can tell you right now, from a practical weapon's construction perspective, there's no way you could build a halberd whose handle doubles as a functioning arrow shaft, and still have the entire weapon be structurally sound when being used as a bladed weapon. Especially when there's no place for the archer to grab without slicing their hand open, since the body of the bow is also the bladed edge. It's just not possible by any stretch of the imagination.

Frankly, telling Kirika to stick her tongue in Oriko's mouth for some of that sweet, sweet mana, and then having Lancelot whip out Arondight, would be the much simpler move here.
You honestly don't realize what a nightmare it would be to combat an opponent with a constantly shifting weapon with differing effects (a person who could wield them all just about perfectly as well)? God Force has tons of weapon forms for different situations and can switch in a heartbeat - that'd be like having a sword that could extend or retract it's length at will, overpowered in real combat. This approach to combat (going against an opponent's expectations) is shown off early on in the VN in the form of Saber with Invisible Air, who only concealed her weapon's length and type and couldn't just adjust it at will like God Force can. That's not to mention the variety of differing effects each weapon form has which changes with each shift, good for just about any situation. Lancelot with this NP would be a nightmare to combat, and it readily takes advantage of his mastery of all arms to a massive degree.
Well, for some reason Enetious is having Archer give Saber both of his spears, which is silly. Diarmuid isn't an Indian heroic spirit, and he doesn't have four arms. All he needs is Gáe Dearg to carry with Moralltach, and he's all set in the manner he would have been in life.
Oh, missed that, adjusted that portion of the vote.
 
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You honestly don't realize what a nightmare it would be to combat an opponent with a constantly shifting weapon with differing effects (a person who could wield them all just about perfectly as well)? God Force has tons of weapon forms for different situations and can switch in a heartbeat - that'd be like having a sword that could extend or retract it's length at will, overpowered in real combat. This approach to combat (going against an opponent's expectations) is shown off early on in the VN in the form of Saber with Invisible Air, who only concealed her weapon's length and type and couldn't just adjust it at will like God Force can.
No, I do realise what a nightmare it would be, but it would be a nightmare for the user. In order for you to be able to loose the handle in the form of an arrow, the handle would have to be separate from the head. But that would compromise the weapon's structural stability, giving you a halberd with a floppy head at best, and one where the head falls off the handle and is rendered useless at worst. You can't physically hold the weapon as a bow, because the bladed edge is forming the body of the bow and would slice your hand open. I can't get over the fact that this weapon would not function at all if you tried to make it in real life, and that completely takes me out of trying to imagine anyone using it.

Furthermore, what is the difference in form between any of those listed? Every "mode" besides Shoot can be performed by any bladed weapon, given enough skill of the user, which we know Lancelot has in spades. I just don't see how this thing in any ways is better than Arondight at anything other than archery, and we can always give Lancelot a bow and some arrows if we want him to be another archer.
 
or reference, if Berserker wanted to use God Force's Anti-Fortress bow and arrow, it'd probably draw magical energy for consumption from him and therefore Kirika.
Which is, by the by, not a good thing. Isn't mana consumption the entire reason why Lancelot doesn't just use Arondight 24/7, ever since Knight of Owner got nerfed after Lancelot was de-Berserker'd?

Furthermore, what is the difference in form between any of those listed? Every "mode" besides Shoot can be performed by any bladed weapon, given enough skill of the user, which we know Lancelot has in spades. I just don't see how this thing in any ways is better than Arondight at anything other than archery, and we can always give Lancelot a bow and some arrows if we want him to be another archer.
As far as I can tell from this:
In Fate/Grand Order, Lu Bu was updated to display more usage of the forms of the God Force, showing it transform into a pair of Spiked Gauntlets, Tonfas, a Nine-Ringed Broadsword, Chain Whips, and a Warhammer.
There's a point where they gave up on trying to give it any logical structure and just made it a transforming weapon.
 
No, I do realise what a nightmare it would be, but it would be a nightmare for the user. In order for you to be able to loose the handle in the form of an arrow, the handle would have to be separate from the head. But that would compromise the weapon's structural stability, giving you a halberd with a floppy head at best, and one where the head falls off the handle and is rendered useless at worst. You can't physically hold the weapon as a bow, because the bladed edge is forming the body of the bow and would slice your hand open. I can't get over the fact that this weapon would not function at all if you tried to make it in real life, and that completely takes me out of trying to imagine anyone using it.
I'm... not seeing this? The weapon shifts are instantaneous and completely transforms the NP, as seen here. There's also a very obvious handle separate from the blade when in bow form. (EDIT: Obviously this weapon wouldn't be achievable in real life, but that's obvious.)
Furthermore, what is the difference in form between any of those listed? Every "mode" besides Shoot can be performed by any bladed weapon, given enough skill of the user, which we know Lancelot has in spades. I just don't see how this thing in any ways is better than Arondight at anything other than archery, and we can always give Lancelot a bow and some arrows if we want him to be another archer.
constantly shifting weapon with differing effects
God Force has tons of weapon forms for different situations and can switch in a heartbeat
Also just look at the video above. It's incredibly versatile and can achieve many more combat advantages than just a sword can, and combined with Lancelot's skill Eternal Arms Mastery A+ and his Knight of Owner it guarantees that he'll be able to wield it with ease.
Which is, by the by, not a good thing. Isn't mana consumption the entire reason why Lancelot doesn't just use Arondight 24/7, ever since Knight of Owner got nerfed after Lancelot was de-Berserker'd?
Berserker will not be using the Anti-Fortress function outside of situations in which he would release Arondight's True Name anyway, and that's the most active part of the NP. Switching functions and weapon forms almost assuredly isn't that magical energy intensive in of itself.
 
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...I'm not exactly sure where this conversation came from, but ok.

I'll say that SVS actually has the reason here: I don't see anything in God Hand that could give us an advantage over the rest, considering the fact of mana consumption that it would mean for Kirika, not when we have Arondlight right here.
 
...I'm not exactly sure where this conversation came from, but ok.

I'll say that SVS actually has the reason here: I don't see anything in God Hand that could give us an advantage over the rest, considering the fact of mana consumption that it would mean for Kirika, not when we have Arondlight right here.
Outside of using the Anti-Fortress function of God Force (which he shouldn't anyway outside of situations where he'd be releasing Arondight's True Name), Arondight is almost assuredly much more cost intensive. Most of God Force's effects are passive, and it's real advantage over Arondight is it's instantaneous versatility in combat which makes use of one of Berserker's highest ranked and OP skills.
 
Outside of using the Anti-Fortress function of God Force (which he shouldn't anyway outside of situations where he'd be releasing Arondight's True Name), Arondight is almost assuredly much more cost intensive. Most of God Force's effects are passive, and it's real advantage over Arondight is it's instantaneous versatility in combat which makes use of one of Berserker's highest ranked and OP skills.
Eh, I'll still say that we can get more bang for our buck with a different weapon. There are plenty of weapons out there that have the quality of 'really sharp'; from that one bone cutter thing to Durindana, so on. Or we could trace Beagalltach for a defensive increase and give him something else to go in the other hand. See, there are lots of reasons. For example, it's great if you ever have to fight more than one opponent at a time. You see, with two smaller blades you can swing faster than a guy with both hands on one big sword. And you can attack and defend at the same time. You could even fight if one of your arms got cut off because you'd still have one left. IT'S REALLY THE ULTIMATE FIGHTING STYLE!

*Ahem!* Sorry. Still though, we have more options than God Force.
 
(EDIT: Obviously this weapon wouldn't be achievable in real life, but that's obvious.)
This is what I'm talking about. I don't care how fast it can transform, I care that it has the ability to transform at all. You could not build something that is literally just a blade on a stick, expect it to be able to turn into 60 different other weapons, and then also expect it to have the structural stability to withstand being used more than one swing's worth. And that takes my suspension of disbelief completely away because I look at that and don't see any way that it would work or exist in the slightest. A lot of the "forms" don't even involve mass that exists on the weapon, according to your animation. I've seen Transformers that have more believable mass-shifting than this thing.

It looks cool, I'll give it that, but I can't even believe that most of these "forms" are even from the same weapon because there's no like mass shared between them in the slightest.
You see, with two smaller blades you can swing faster than a guy with both hands on one big sword. And you can attack and defend at the same time. You could even fight if one of your arms got cut off because you'd still have one left.
This is only true if you have more Agility than your opponent. Which you don't, because Lancelot has an A+ in Agility and you probably aren't named Achilles. They also don't need to defend if they have an A in Endurance and your smaller blades can't penetrate their disgustingly thick anachronistic plate armour. 15th century armour on a 5th century knight? Even though it looks hella cool, come the fuck on now. Also, Lancelot is strong enough to use Arondight with only one hand, so even if you cut one of his arms off he can still fight; again, probably better than you can.
Arondight is almost assuredly much more cost intensive.
I know I covered this in the previous quest, but I can't remember if you were there or not when I did. Lancelot can sword real good without it hurting Kirika; it's only when he has to use Arondight to sword laser something that it hurts Kirika, but even that can be mitigated if we make sure she has a decent cushion of mana and access to a few Grief Seeds before going into battle. She's come a long way from almost dying just from having him make an appearance, and I think you're selling short her ability to use him now because you remember how bad it used to be for her. I wouldn't be using the portrait where he has Arondight in his hand if he couldn't even take it out it without hurting Kirika.
 
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Eh, I'll still say that we can get more bang for our buck with a different weapon. There are plenty of weapons out there that have the quality of 'really sharp'; from that one bone cutter thing to Durindana, so on. Or we could trace Beagalltach for a defensive increase and give him something else to go in the other hand. See, there are lots of reasons. For example, it's great if you ever have to fight more than one opponent at a time. You see, with two smaller blades you can swing faster than a guy with both hands on one big sword. And you can attack and defend at the same time. You could even fight if one of your arms got cut off because you'd still have one left. IT'S REALLY THE ULTIMATE FIGHTING STYLE!

*Ahem!* Sorry. Still though, we have more options than God Force.
Boneless Man can't do anything to cut through Sigurd's sword, and neither can Durandal or Durindana. Beagalltach would only be good for stalling against him, not actually endeavoring to defeat him. Sigurd's Crystallized Wisdom is too strong to be overcome by a single type of weapon he's had time to analyze and acclimatize to.

If one can't overcome their opponent through pure skill or power, one must come up with alternative means of taking them out. You can do this through strategy by trapping the environment before then (which isn't much to Crystallized Wisdom), or you could try to overcome your opponent in another way. The way I was thinking of was to have Lancelot take advantage of a skill he's very very good at and using it's versatility to his advantage to compensate for Sigurd's OPness, ergo God Force.

If you hadn't already guessed, we're mostly relying on Berserker to match their Saber since Rider's NP is mostly nullified due to Sigurd's Divinity and Diarmuid is weakened atm. It would probably be too much for Archer to match their Saber alone, and he'll have to deal with the Saints' other Servants as well. If you have another solution that doesn't involve blowing up a city block with Sigurd in it and being done with it, then I'm all for it, seriously. It's just that NPs like Arondight alone isn't enough to take out their Saber, unfortunately.

EDIT: Ninja'd by SVS moments before again
This is what I'm talking about. I don't care how fast it can transform, I care that it has the ability to transform at all. You could not build something that is literally just a blade on a stick, expect it to be able to turn into 60 different other weapons, and then also expect it to have the structural stability to withstand being used more than one swing's worth. And that takes my suspension of disbelief completely away because I look at that and don't see any way that it would work or exist in the slightest. A lot of the "forms" don't even involve mass that exists on the weapon, according to your animation. I've seen Transformers that have more believable mass-shifting than this thing.
I... it's literally magic. That's what it is, it's a function of the weapon due to it being a magical weapon called a Noble Phantasm. Normal swords can't shoot lasers, or handle the pressure and forces exerted on them, but the ones here can because it's literally magic.

Should Gilgamesh's Gate of Babylon not be able to teleport his shot armaments back into it because it breaks the laws of physics? Should Archer not be able to project Hrunting because it can act like a heat seeking missile despite that being impossible for a normal sword? I think you get what I'm saying (hopefully).

I just don't get what's so difficult to believe about God Force being able to magically change shape/mass on demand, when compared to the plethora of examples of impossible weaponry we have in-quest.
 
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This is what I'm talking about. I don't care how fast it can transform, I care that it has the ability to transform at all. You could not build something that is literally just a blade on a stick, expect it to be able to turn into 60 different other weapons, and then also expect it to have the structural stability to withstand being used more than one swing's worth. And that takes my suspension of disbelief completely away because I look at that and don't see any way that it would work or exist in the slightest. A lot of the "forms" don't even involve mass that exists on the weapon, according to your animation. I've seen Transformers that have more believable mass-shifting than this thing.

It looks cool, I'll give it that, but I can't even believe that most of these "forms" are even from the same weapon because there's no like mass shared between them in the slightest.
Hey, I'm not sure if this is derailing or not, but...

Does this weapon was actually detailed in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms? Because if it is, then I would wish what they were up to the one's who design it...
 
Boneless Man can't do anything to cut through Sigurd's sword, and neither can Durandal or Durindana.
Doesn't need to, and neither can God Force if that's your point. If you want to break his sword, get Aife on the line.

Beagalltach would only be good for stalling against him, not actually endeavoring to defeat him.
Not the point, and a defensive increase along with a power increase is still better in my eyes.

Sigurd's Crystallized Wisdom is too strong to be overcome by a single type of weapon he's had time to analyze and acclimatize to.
Yeah, but honestly that just means that God Force just makes it take longer. After a while, the weapon base is either exhausted or become stupidly impractical. Whoever decided that scythe martial arts are a good form of martial arts is a total jack***.

I... it's literally magic. That's what it is, it's a function of the weapon due to it being a magical weapon called a Noble Phantasm. Normal swords can't shoot lasers, or handle the pressure and forces exerted on them, but the ones here can because it's literally magic.
I'll at least agree with Enetious here; I don't get what's so hard to believe.

Edit: Also, Crystallized Wisdom isn't updating, so far as I can tell. Either he's already acclimated to fighting styles like that or not.
 
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Hey, I'm not sure if this is derailing or not, but...

Does this weapon was actually detailed in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms? Because if it is, then I would wish what they were up to the one's who design it.
The page on the TM wiki outright says that it didn't exist during the time Lu Bu was active
The actual weapon was from the Northern Song era, and didn't exist while Lü Bu was active.
And then, in literally the next sentence, goes on to contradict itself.
God Force was actually a Chinese gadget created by Chen Gong, a military adviser, who thought it up in order to aid Lü Bu during numerous dangerous predicaments resulting from each time he betrayed a lord.
So who the fuck actually knows?

However, there's another link on that same page that redirects to what I believe is the same weapon, but as it appears in Stay Night when used with GoB. It's a much more reasonable, functional, and realistic design for a weapon. Now, I can't speak for what happened between this thing appearing in Stay Night, and this other thing appearing in Extra and FGO as a completely different weapon. But as we all know when it comes to Fate, the original is always the more correct version.
I just don't get what's so difficult to believe about God Force being able to magically change shape/mass on demand, when compared to the plethora of examples of impossible weaponry we have in-quest.
I'll at least agree with Enetious here; I don't get what's so hard to believe.
Take my above example as my primary argument for why this in particular is so hard for me to accept compared to the stuff I'm generally okay with. Swords that shoot laser beams? Stay Night did that. Gil doing anything with GoB? Stay Night did that. Archer makes a heat-seaking sword? Stay Night did that. A mass-shifting transformer that can't physical function as depicted? I don't remember that from Stay Night. The further away you get from the source material - which I'm already not so perfect in my grasp on to begin with - and the more you get into the really weird shit I don't even understand half the time, that I get iffy about a lot of things. Yes, while it is still magic BS, the stuff that came after Stay Night, FGO especially, does a lot of stuff that's really far out there compared to what we see in Stay Night, and the more out there it gets the less comfortable with it I am.

Now, I'll admit I use plenty of stuff that's outside the realm of Stay Night for the Fate half of this quest, but you'll notice that everything I use is stuff that I understand, and understand how to use. The weirder and less familiar I find something and the less sure of how something works I am, the less comfortable I am with letting it slide because we've had arguments before where I'll do something wrong because I don't understand it, and also don't understand what I don't understand enough to where I don't understand how I did it wrong, and obviously I'm trying to avoid that. I don't want a repeat of what happened before I had to rebuild Saber Musashi, and I don't want a repeat of what happened when I was asked to use Heracles's bow without an explanation of how it's supposed to be used.

That's why this is so hard for me to believe, because it's weird and different and I don't understand it the same way I understand sword lasers. Sword lasers are comfortable and easy for me to understand.

EDIT:
Doesn't need to, and neither can God Force if that's your point. If you want to break his sword, get Aife on the line.
But also this. This is why we have Aífe in the first place.
 
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Doesn't need to, and neither can God Force if that's your point.
I meant it more in the way in that Sigurd is perfectly capable of matching up to Lancelot's pure skill to the point that he could ensure that Lancelot's blade only ever hits his own. With God Force's versatility and an equal amount of skill from Lancelot, there's a much higher chance that Lancelot would be able to bypass Sigurd's sword in order to hit him directly due to the unpredictable nature of God Force's transformations and the differing weapon types and styles (of which Sigurd would have to change to a defensive position suited for said weapon types and styles constantly each time until he's unable to keep up with the speed of God Force's transformations). Nothing they have (outside of Aife's NP) would really be able to cut through Sigurd's NP, so they have to bypass it.
Not the point, and a defensive increase along with a power increase is still better in my eyes.
Again, that's more suited to stalling than actually taking out Sigurd, and like we saw with Lancelot's last fight with him Lancelot was capable of avoiding injury in general for the most part through pure skill already.
Yeah, but honestly that just means that God Force just makes it take longer. After a while, the weapon base is either exhausted or become stupidly impractical. Whoever decided that scythe martial arts are a good form of martial arts is a total jack***.
Sigurd's Crystallized Wisdom isn't infallible, and wouldn't save any sort of prior data or anything like that. That all depends on Sigurd's own adaptability and memory and even he couldn't learn to perfectly counter that many different weapon types and styles without a very significant amount of time; it's not like he has Eternal Arms Mastery after all.

EDIT: Ninja'd by SVS yet again, posting moments before I've posted the last few posts of ours somehow. Wow.

Anyways @SVS, that version of God Force from the GoB is the prototype, and for all we know could transform into other forms just as well (not like mechashift as you seem to have thought of it, but magically and instantaneously). All God Force is (aside from the Anti-Fortress bow laser) a weapon that could be any other type of weapon. That's it. There's nothing more to it other than being able to change the type of weapon on the fly. It is whatever type of weapon Lancelot needs at any given moment to gain an advantage over his opponent, that's it's real gimmick. The skills to wield the various weapon types comes from Lancelot's skill Eternal Arms Mastery A+, not through any other special effect from the weapon. It's why it's the perfect weapon for someone like Lancelot, as only he (and the original user) could actually capitalize on changing between weapon styles on the fly. It's also a good way to have Lancelot in the spotlight a bit more than usual, showing off an important skill of his to its fullest potential and why he's called a peerless knight.

If it's the look of the weapon that has you ruffled, feel free to reskin it to the GoB version if you want to. It's main gimmick - like I've said above - is simply to supply it's user with a bunch of different types of weapons on demand, so the look isn't really important. It's laser probably won't see any use due to Lancelot already having Arondight (which is probably better) so no need to worry about that.
 
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The page on the TM wiki outright says that it didn't exist during the time Lu Bu was active

And then, in literally the next sentence, goes on to contradict itself.

So who the fuck actually knows?

However, there's another link on that same page that redirects to what I believe is the same weapon, but as it appears in Stay Night when used with GoB. It's a much more reasonable, functional, and realistic design for a weapon. Now, I can't speak for what happened between this thing appearing in Stay Night, and this other thing appearing in Extra and FGO as a completely different weapon. But as we all know when it comes to Fate, the original is always the more correct version.
Ah, thank you!

...Um, guys? This may just be because I'm a fragment of glass that can't handle the heat of online discussions or because i'm reading this all wrong, but...

Isn't this getting a little heated here? Once again, I may be misreading all of this, but I can't help but feel that the conversation is starting to get a little hot in the God Force theme...
 
...Um, guys? This may just be because I'm a fragment of glass that can't handle the heat of online discussions or because i'm reading this all wrong, but...

Isn't this getting a little heated here? Once again, I may be misreading all of this, but I can't help but feel that the conversation is starting to get a little hot in the God Force theme...
It isn't just you, but at the same time we have had heated discussions before when I didn't understand how something worked. That being said, this is also nothing to me. As heated as this looks, I still generally enjoy the contributions of the people it looks like I'm arguing with. You should see what it looks like when I genuinely despise the person I'm arguing with.
And see, as stupid as that is, that's about all it takes for me to be okay with it, because you've gone and put it back into the realm of something I can understand. You hand me a pointed stick and say "This can be any kind of weapon you need it to be" and that's fine. I've seen Cardcaptor Sakura before, so I know that sticks can magically transform into other weapons. But you hand me a piece of ancient Chinese clockwork and tell me it can mechanically turn into seven other weapons, and that's just absurd because this thing isn't at all practical and looks like it would snap the moment you tried to use its ancient Chinese clockwork transformations.
 
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However, there's another link on that same page that redirects to what I believe is the same weapon,
"Houtengeki, huh? I wonder if that's based on something real."
*One Google later*
"That's not a spear!" *Insert Seinfeld theme or something*

Again, that's more suited to stalling than actually taking out Sigurd, and like we saw with Lancelot's last fight with him Lancelot was capable of avoiding injury in general for the most part through pure skill already.
Honestly, do we even need to have Lancelot deal actual damage to Sigurd at this point? Banking on Lancelot doing damage to Sigurd on his lonesome in any meaningful way is a fool's endeavor. We should deal with the other opponents first and then gang up on Sigurd. If we gang up on Sigurd, then your point about God Force's versatile functions is rendered mostly moot, because I don't think Sigurd can just lolnope 3 seperate top-grade opponents with just his blade and raw skill without unleashing Gram full-tilt.
 
Honestly, do we even need to have Lancelot deal actual damage to Sigurd at this point? Banking on Lancelot doing damage to Sigurd on his lonesome in any meaningful way is a fool's endeavor. We should deal with the other opponents first and then gang up on Sigurd. If we gang up on Sigurd, then your point about God Force's versatile functions is rendered mostly moot, because I don't think Sigurd can just lolnope 3 seperate top-grade opponents with just his blade and raw skill without unleashing Gram full-tilt.
It wouldn't hurt for Lancelot to deal damage to Sigurd; at the very least it'll make it far easier for him to contend with the enemy Saber as before Sigurd was kinda stomping on Lancelot due to being OP. Right now the Quintet is down to four or so Servants for the foreseeable future (like three days) if they want to capitalize on the Saints' lack of an Archer while still building their base, so making the Peerless Knight of the Round Table into a more formidable foe wouldn't hurt at all until they've gotten a full roster. It also would allow Lancelot his time to shine through the sheer breadth of his skill, while showing off to everyone just why he's called the Peerless Knight (also abiding by Fate's rule of cool, Lancelot hasn't gotten enough love so far in the quest).

Ultimately they can't gang up on Sigurd until the Quintet has a full roster available and the Saints are down some more Servants, and even then Sigurd is like the Norse equivalent of Heracles, and due to him being summoned in his strongest class (which is generally considered to be the strongest class in the FATE system as well) he's quite an absurd opponent.
 
It also would allow Lancelot his time to shine through the sheer breadth of his skill, while showing off to everyone just why he's called the Peerless Knight (also abiding by Fate's rule of cool, Lancelot hasn't gotten enough love so far in the quest).
You know who else hasn't gotten enough love? Assassin. Plague, I love everything you've done for me, so I hope you don't take it personally when I say I hope my Aífe gets to be cool before yours does.
Honestly, do we even need to have Lancelot deal actual damage to Sigurd at this point? Banking on Lancelot doing damage to Sigurd on his lonesome in any meaningful way is a fool's endeavor. We should deal with the other opponents first and then gang up on Sigurd. If we gang up on Sigurd, then your point about God Force's versatile functions is rendered mostly moot, because I don't think Sigurd can just lolnope 3 seperate top-grade opponents with just his blade and raw skill without unleashing Gram full-tilt.
I feel like the most important thing we're missing is whether or not Sigurd will even fight Lancelot. He outright said for all the world to hear that he's only interested in fighting Brynhildr, so if we show up and he refuses to come up and play unless we've brought a gift-wrapped Valkyrie for him, then we've just gone and wasted all that time and effort planning how to beat him without her.
 
You know who else hasn't gotten enough love? Assassin. Plague, I love everything you've done for me, so I hope you don't take it personally when I say I hope my Aífe gets to be cool before yours does.
...Isn't this cheating? NTR!?
I feel like the most important thing we're missing is whether or not Sigurd will even fight Lancelot. He outright said for all the world to hear that he's only interested in fighting Brynhildr, so if we show up and he refuses to come up and play unless we've brought a gift-wrapped Valkyrie for him, then we've just gone and wasted all that time and effort planning how to beat him without her.
Well, he did let us go after toying with Lancelot, so unless I read the scene terribly wrong, I'll say that he has some (Let me remark, SOME, he ain't a knight) level of chivalry or warrior respect, I wouldn't bet anything on that, but that's something.
 
You know who else hasn't gotten enough love? Assassin. Plague, I love everything you've done for me, so I hope you don't take it personally when I say I hope my Aífe gets to be cool before yours does.
I will take it personally. You know how cool my Aife is? My Aife has a kilt, a spear, a shortsword, and she's a Rider. Beat that, *insert insult here*!

Oh wait you probably will because you're a better writer than me by miles

and also my drawing skills suk

...Isn't this cheating? NTR!?
…In what way?
 
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Both of you use Aife.

Both of you want to see her being cool before the other does.

Both of you made her Servant sheet.

Thus, in a weird way, NTR!
It's actually much closer to iteration than cheating. I had the idea to make an Aífe servant back when I saw Skaði for the first time, but I didn' end up actually doing anything with that until back in.. I don't even remember, maybe November of 2019? We had just beaten Elsa Maria and were debating whether it was better to let Caren keep Lancer or if we should give him to Bazett that I ended up really putting my ideas into something that might resemble a servant stat sheet. Enetious helped me iron out the ideas I had for her NPs into things that worked, and then in... Either September or October of last year, I gave that idea over to Plague and he helped me settle on her skills since I was still floundering on those. So Assassin Aífe came first, then Plague took what he had helped me work on and used that to create a proper Rider-class summon for her.

It's the same heroic spirit, but the difference in being forced into an improper class vessel versus being summoned in her preferred one is hopefully going to make them into very different characters.
I will take it personally. You know how cool my Aife is? My Aife has a kilt, a spear, a shortsword, and she's a Rider. Beat that, *insert insult here*!

Oh wait you probably will because you're a better writer than me by miles
Practice, practice, practice. I write a lot, as I'm sure you can tell. The previous quest was only the first time I broke 1 million words on a single project, but it was far from my first foray into creative writing. I'm sure once you reach your first million you'll be a lot more confident in your ability to write well.

Also, while your Aífe may be in her preferred class and with actual weapons at her disposal, mine has stronger runes, a class advantage, and a stronger Sword Breaker to break yours' short sword. It would probably be really fun to see the two fight each other, all things considered.
 
Day 5 Chapter 10
[X] Plan First Offensive



"I don't mind if we have to harm them in the course of battle, but unless it's absolutely necessary I would prefer we not have to kill them."

"I agree with Tomoe-san. Harm coming to our enemies is unavoidable if they have chosen to fight us; but I refuse to kill any of them, and I refuse to put myself in a position where killing one of them is the only way out."

"Fuck that. You think those bitches would give killing us a second thought? If we're in a position ta take one'a those bitches out permanently, you better believe I'm fucking taking it. 'Specially if it's that pink bitch or the master'a their Archer."

"I just want that pink bitch and the monocle chick dead for hurting Oriko. I don't care one way or another about what happens to any of the rest."

You probably didn't need to ask that question to guess the answers you would receive; and hell, you could probably close your ears and correctly guess what each of your teammates' answers would be without ever hearing them give it. To no one's surprise, their answers are exactly what you expected them to be. The problem, then , is that their votes create a tie between letting the masters live, or killing them along with their servants. If you throw your hat into the ring for killing them, you know Oriko will continue to refuse, to the point that her refusal may even harm the team cohesion. But if you throw your hat into the ring for sparing the enemy masters, you also know there's very little that will stop Kyouko from wanting Wakaba Mirai or Usagi Satomi dead, just as there's very little that will stop Kirika from wanting Wakaba Mirai or Asami Saki dead.

No matter how you look at it, there isn't an option you can take where the whole team will feel good about taking it. "I'm glad we got that out of the way first," you say. "It's not going to make this any easier going forward, but at least I know where we all stand without having to guess."

"Don't be so modest Akemi-san." Tomoe-san waves your words off, saying "I'm sure you know us all well enough that you didn't need to ask."

"True. I suppose it goes without saying that we need to defeat their servants in order to stand a chance of winning, but I guess I was foolish enough to hope we might be able to reach a consensus on dealing with the enemy puella magi," you say. "Unfortunately we haven't, and unfortunately I knew we wouldn't." You glance around the Tomoe living room; Hitomi isn't present, but she said as much to you when you texted everyone for a meeting. She'll be along later, after her boyfriend goes back to Chigasaki. So that just leaves one more member of the team to try and break the tie.

"Don't look at me," Nurse Ortensia says as you do just that. "I'm just the Overseer. I don't have any particular preference for whether those girls die or not. Only their servants need to be defeated in order for you to win."

"Oh, don't give us that 'neutrality' crap," Kirika spits. "Even if you don't wanna admit it, deep down I know you care what happens to Oriko, so just admit that you've got thoughts one way or another about these girls."

"So we're still tied without Hitomi here to break it," you say. "That's fine. We can work that out once she gets here. For now, we need to talk about how we plan to proceed over the course of the next few days. Oriko, would you care to take things from here?"

"Of course, Akemi-san." Oriko assumes your position as you sit back down at the table. "Last night, Archer dealt a seemingly fatal blow to the enemy's Archer. If she's alive, then the Saints are doing an excellent job of hiding her, because I don't see her at all in our future. While I hate to get our hopes up in the event that she isn't dead, we can assume that we'll have the next few days free of any fire support from the enemy, at least. Tomoe-san and I have been talking about how best to take advantage of our good fortune, and we think that, while we have the initiative, we should take this opportunity to launch some probing strikes into the enemy's territory. We're presently at a loss for critical information like the quality of their defenses or their daily movements, and now that their Archer is out of the picture we believe the time is right to obtain that information."

So far, it appears that everyone is on board with Oriko's suggestion, based solely on their faces as they listen to her. "Now, assuming we leave the construction team to their duties, we will be left with Saber, Archer, Rider, and Berserker comprising our primary strike team, along with the five of us, assuming we all decide to participate." Oriko turns to Nurse Ortensia, saying "I won't force you to participate, Caren-san. I know your magecraft isn't well-suited for fighting something like a puella magi; and I won't force Shizuki-san to join, either."

You nod. "I'd like for her to one day be comfortable enough with her magecraft, as well as with some basic combat and survival techniques, that she's able to join us in some capacity; but until she's ready it's probably best if she stays behind and commands Saber through her master's vision."

"So, we're leaving out the ones still working on our base?" Kyouko asks. "How convenient that you two-" Her eyes dart back and forth between Tomoe-san and Oriko "-would be the ones coming up with this, when it's yer servants who are hanging back."

Kirika leans over, smacking Kyouko in the back of her head. "Don't talk about Oriko like that!" she shouts. "Come on now! You know Oriko better than that."

"Yeah, yeah, I know." Kyouko winces as she rubs the back of her head. "Christ, couldn't ya go a little easier on me, though? That almost hurt."

Oriko's gaze bores a pair of holes into Kyouko's face; at least, that's what you would expect from the intensity with which she stares at the redhead. "If you take the Lord's name in vain in my presence one more time, Sakura-san, I will be the one to slap you."

"All right, I get it. Geez." Kyouko rolls her eyes. "How the hell'd you end up caring more about this stuff than me? You weren't even brought up in the faith."

Tomoe-san coughs into her hand. "Perhaps we should get back to discussing our plan of attack?" she suggests. "If we're all on board with the idea Mikuni-san has proposed, can I assume you each have your own thoughts about how we should proceed with our attack? We've got a number of options, as I see it. Without the enemy's Archer to stop us, we could bombard their base of operations, for example; or perhaps we could catch them off-guard while they're out on patrol? Or perhaps we'd prefer to take the chivalrous route and announce our intentions to their face, similar to how they announced their intentions to us a few nights ago?"

"I would prefer not to attack their base directly," Oriko says. "They've already set a bad precedent by attacking us on neutral territory. If we choose to lower ourselves to their level and attack their base, we might inadvertently incite them to attack our own base in return. With construction still slated to take another few days, I would prefer we not give them that incentive, at least not until our own base is set up with sufficient defensive capabilities." Tomoe-san nods in agreement with Oriko, who then adds "Also, I'd feel bad for the museum if we attacked their base. It didn't ask to be used by them in that fashion, and we'd be destroying a possibly priceless collection of vintage bears if we launched our attacks carelessly."

"So?" Kyouko asks. "You think they cared what the church felt when they had Archer level it? Don't get me wrong, I think you've got a good idea about not provoking'em ta attack our base until we're all set up ta counter'em, but why the fuck d'ya think I should care about their building when they didn't care about mine?"

"I think a sneak attack would be best," Kirika says. "I hate to admit it, but they've got stronger servants than we do, so if we go and announce our intentions to fight them, we're just gonna get clobbered. But if we pull a fast one on'em, then maybe we'll get lucky and take one out before they know what's going on. If everythign goes well, we swoop in and take the rest down, easy-peasy; and if it doesn't work, then we fall back and try again later. Either way, we're in a much better position if we don't announce ourselves like a bunch of stupid shounen anime villains."

Tomoe-san smiles. "That's... Surprisingly thoughtful of you, Kure-san," she says. Kirika's face reads something to the effect of "Come on, Tomoe, I'm single-minded, but I'm not stupid," or something like that. But she remains quiet, allowing Tomoe-san to continue. "I agree with Kure-san, then. Even though we've taken out the enemy's Archer, they still have their own Saber, Lancer, Rider, and Berserker to contend with. If Lancer and Berserker are anywhere near as strong as their Saber and Rider, we won't be able to defeat them in a head-on confrontation while we're still limiting our forces. But if we attack them when they aren't expecting, we might be able to catch them off-guard before they have a chance to bring the brunt of their servant force to bear against us."

"And kill'em, right?"

"I would prefer if we didn't kill them," Tomoe-san says to Kyouko. "If we could make allies of Mikuni-san and Kure-san, then I want to believe we could do the same for at least some of these girls, if it's at all possible."

Oriko nods along with Tomoe-san's words. "Even if their actions are... Disturbing, they are not beyond redemption. If we can defeat them without killing them, I have to believe it would be possible to turn them back into good people, the same as you and Akemi-san did for Kirika and I."

Nurse Ortensia stares at Oriko as she speaks, nodding occasionally as a sly smirk crosses her lips. When you look to her, she responds with another "Don't look at me," before saying "I don't particularly care how you girls choose to defeat them. Just make sure you aren't doing anything that would compromise your position on the world stage, and you won't have any problems from me, the Church, or the Mage's Association."

"I'll be sure to keep that in mind," you say.

What do you think should be the rules of engagement should be?
[ ] Only their servants have to be defeated; go out of your way to avoid killing any of the Saints
[ ] Only their servants have to be defeated; but you won't avoid killing if you have to
[ ] Kill them all; let God sort them out
[ ]Other (write-in)

What do you think the best plan of attack would be?
[ ] Bombard their base
[ ] Sneak attack
[ ] Declare your intentions and fight them openly
[ ] Other (write-in)

Do you have anything else to add?
[ ] Yes (before Hitomi arrives) (write-in)
[ ] Yes (after Hitomi arrives) (write-in)
[ ] No

[ ] Wat do?

BONUS
Do you want to see Oriko's tattoo?
[ ] Yes; before you leave, if she's okay with showing you
[ ] Yes; after you return, if she's okay with showing you
[ ] No; it's none of your business that Oriko got a tattoo​
 
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I didn't include Archer handing out weapons because we're not that far into things yet. I still need to get our opinion on the RoE and the best plan of attack before it would make sense to include arming up and readying for an attack. Also, since Hitomi is still on her date, I thought I'd break to see if there was anything we wanted to add before or after she arrived in case that might change anything about our decisions.
 
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