Yeah, there's certainly nothing about 'is a magic focus' that, in a vacuum, is incompatible with 'is a melee weapon'. There are plenty of fantasy settings where the magic foci are generally things that wouldn't make good melee weapons, but that's a setting decision. I'm pretty sure you've also got fantasy settings where people outright use swords as magical foci...
Cliches you can't stand
- Thread starter Mithras
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Castro-Trudeauist
If the magic staff has a crystal in it I'm not swinging it at orcs or a guy with a helmet. Neither if it's made of some kind of magic softwood or has gylphs carved on it. Or if the magic within is in any way unstable.
And honestly if the caster is at the point where they're swinging their staff they can do just as well straight up chucking rocks instead, puts their precious magic hands out of enemy swinging distance atleast.
And honestly if the caster is at the point where they're swinging their staff they can do just as well straight up chucking rocks instead, puts their precious magic hands out of enemy swinging distance atleast.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Amelia Wil Tesla Saillune, who enchants her fists in order to punch demons in the face, is watching this discussion and laughing.
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Heroes or vigilantes that have financial issues refusing money when it's offered as a reward.
They always use some moral argument that it wouldn't be right, and that having helped is a reward in itself, ignoring that they can help a lot more people when they don't have to spend half their day scrounging up enough money to get food.
They always use some moral argument that it wouldn't be right, and that having helped is a reward in itself, ignoring that they can help a lot more people when they don't have to spend half their day scrounging up enough money to get food.
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
Sturm Falke and Kairyuu Issen are a bit beyond the Book of Nine Swords. So, for that matter, is Wing Road. Wing Road is absolutely classic wizard stuff, creating extensive paths in the air to use.
Like, even Belkan-style mages such as the Wolkenritter are still mages, foremost for the good and simple reason the setting is explicit they have and channel power in the same way as Hayate. They also do other mage-type things like telepathy, some degree of teleportation, use magical circles when casting, and interact with mage-use objects.
But the point was that ultimately what magic is and is not, as Morganite said, is a setting feature. The Lyricalverse could have chosen to say that what the Wolkenritter or even what Fate does isn't magic in the same sense as what Nanoha does. It did the opposite, and even very early on had what Nanoha could do and what Yuuno could do with the same focii be radically different in effect but share key elements of presentation because magic is meant to be a very flexible tool in the Lyricalverse, as demonstrated when the interdimensional magic warship shows up later.
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"Hit people with it?! Do you have any idea how much a mana focus crystal costs?! I'm still paying for this goddamn thing and I bought it on my second year of Wizard University - why do you think I'm in this stupid dungeon instead of in my cozy studio surrounded by grimoires? If one of those orcs gets into melee I'm going to be actively blocking attacks aimed at this staff with my face, healing spells are way cheaper!"
Jokes aside, in general unless the setting and magic specifically informs me otherwise, I tend to operate under the assumption that if a staff is *specifically* a "wizard's staff" rather than just a normal staff that happens to be in the ownership of a wizard, it's probably meant to be analog to some sort of precision tool. You don't go around hitting people over the head with your telescope and then complain it broke!
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Castro-Trudeauist
Also I scoff at any wizard who doesn't have some telekinesis as a basic action. Throwing shit at people is another layer of defense between you and uncouth swordplay. The Poltergeists in STALKER are only b-tier because the game doesn't properly represent the results of getting brained by a cinderblock.
(Wind magic can serve as a good if less precise substitute.)
Summoned weapons imo are also clearly better than swinging at them with staff or sword. Simply because you don't need to carry it and it might be weightless entirely. This is why Morrowind knocks it out of the park with magic. Barbarian wants to fight? Boom Bound Daedric battle-axe, fuck you.
Polymorph is also must have for melee wizards. What would you rather be, a human with a sword or fucking magic bear? Don't even answer that question, we all know.
I really do think Druids get a lot of the coolest toys and wish they'd get more rep. It's just that in games they can be kinda mid so don't catch on I guess.
(Wind magic can serve as a good if less precise substitute.)
Summoned weapons imo are also clearly better than swinging at them with staff or sword. Simply because you don't need to carry it and it might be weightless entirely. This is why Morrowind knocks it out of the park with magic. Barbarian wants to fight? Boom Bound Daedric battle-axe, fuck you.
Polymorph is also must have for melee wizards. What would you rather be, a human with a sword or fucking magic bear? Don't even answer that question, we all know.
I really do think Druids get a lot of the coolest toys and wish they'd get more rep. It's just that in games they can be kinda mid so don't catch on I guess.
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On the one hand, accepting monetary payments or rewards really does have a bunch of potential issues - it can impact the payer, the payee, and third parties in fairly complex ways. People like this typically really don't want to be turned into mercenaries in anybody's eyes or their own hearts.
On the other hand, yeah, that doesn't mean it's never a good idea to accept money you need!
(I bet you can imagine a spiderman or something arc where the hero accepts a gratitude payment, then another, then makes a snap prioritization choice and helps a money-source first while somebody gets hurt...)
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am now remembering Rune Soldier, where the guy broke his magic staff over the head of a goblin in the first fight, then had to go on a big quest to replace it. He did not use it in melee again.
Kingcrusader
The King of the Crusades
- Location
- Tennessee
Honestly, it would make much more sense if they moved in with someone who knows their identity.
I mean, sure, they won't make money, but they c at least won't struggle for a while.
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
Yeah but being able to transmute or reinforce materials with non-physical power is not part of a standard lab tech's toolkit whereas time-limited material-to-stone or material-to-metal magic or simply magically reinforced things like shields and gates and such as a concept is older than feudalism.
If your staff is that delicate are you even really trying to be a mage?
One of my other favorite takes on non-traditional magery in recent years was The Wrong Way To Use Healing Magic where healing mages are still treated as like, classic cure wounds dispensers in combat...but because they can heal and reinvigorate themselves, out of combat they go through near-constant physical training because they have nothing to fear from muscle strain or repetitive stress or the like, so they're all basically Captain America. The local demons do not respect the sanctity of healers; they respect the fact that a skilled healing mage will thrash the shit out of them if they get in the way.
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Polymorph is great for evasion too!
It's pretty hard to hit someone that keeps turning into a rat and back every time you try attacking them!
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- Elsewhere
Then you factor in training and injury recovery time.
It takes time to stay in peak mugger-grabbing shape, and they sure aren't getting free healthcare!
I don't want my life to depend on an amateur volunteer.
Queshire
Wants a pink flamingo for their lawn.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
In Pathfinder a mage's staff has the same stats as a monk's staff. It's the mage that sucks at using them between probably using strength as a dump stat and a generally bad weapon proficiency. Also if the staff itself has a bunch of spells in it that you can expend charges to use then it can't have property runes. I guess you have to decide between having a flaming staff or having a staff that can cast fireball.
Personally I prefer stories where warrior types use their mana or ki or whatever to empower themselves where mages use it to cast spells. So it's more that a mage's staff is only normal compared to how a warrior's weapon is empowered.
Personally I prefer stories where warrior types use their mana or ki or whatever to empower themselves where mages use it to cast spells. So it's more that a mage's staff is only normal compared to how a warrior's weapon is empowered.
Giant monsters, robots, etc. that move as fast as if they are regular sized people scaled up. If it takes a second for you to take a step, something is 50 times your size, and it also takes a second to take a step, it is moving at 50 times your speed. And the giant thing is never otherwise treated as though it is moving that fast all the time.
- Location
- Georgia, US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mean, given that these things are already defying square cube law (itself a much more serious violation of physics) it's more then a little silly to treat this as the big issue. Some concepts require suspension of disbelief to function and Kaiju/mecha are enormously in this category.
If someone chooses to watch Pacific Rim and instead of enjoying the kickass monster fights instead chooses to nitpick the physics then it's not the film that's at fault in that situation.
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I don't mind a giant opponent being slow and clumsy, but it's annoying when they assume it will be slow and clumsy.
They seem it envision it like a mouse running around a person, forgetting that mice are four-legged and extremely agile compared to humans.
"Okay, so I'll take the steel cable and run around it's legs so it gets tangled. Then I'll climb up its body dodging it's clumsy swings and stab it!"
*Stomp*
"Okay, does anyone have a good plan?"
They seem it envision it like a mouse running around a person, forgetting that mice are four-legged and extremely agile compared to humans.
"Okay, so I'll take the steel cable and run around it's legs so it gets tangled. Then I'll climb up its body dodging it's clumsy swings and stab it!"
*Stomp*
"Okay, does anyone have a good plan?"
Kingcrusader
The King of the Crusades
- Location
- Tennessee
I think it is just a name thing if anything. "The land of" is what it means in Persian, so it kinda sticks.
Well, not the exact same thing but I remember the series "Spooks" had an episode in one of the later series's where they present a Central Asian gas rich country named "Tajbekstan". It used to be under Russian (and I can't remember if Soviet but I assume so) control, had a civil war in the 90s and a Russian minority. But, for a Central Asian country, the main ethnic Tajbekstani character basically appears "Russian".
Now, I get it. It's their world and the writers can right their fictional countries that are often stand ins for real countries (often so they don't pass off the real contry) however they like. But if your going to do that at least explain the logic.
Or like the series "Tyrant" has the fictional Arab country of Abudeen without any logical Geography, like near it's border with Lebanon there's a desert with dunes. And most fictional "stans" and African "ias" have really lazy world building
It is meant to be a ranged attack but due to the Belkan magic styles design optimisations it isn't suited for projecting mana far away from the body so to do pure magic ranged attacks like the Mid style uses takes a lot of work to do properly. because of that it's range is only ten meters at the beginning of the series though Nanoha notes in the soundstages it can be made to reach much further with time.
- Location
- Singapore
- Pronouns
- Singular They
There's a certain character type which appears often in many types of stories, and while it's a cliche in its own, my complaint is more about how that character is handled.
The character type is the antagonistic bully, who belittles and insults the protagonist at almost every chance, but is not (at least to begin with) an outright enemy. Often, they're ostensibly on the same side as the protagonist; they just have a grudge against the protagonist for whatever reason.
The issue I have is this bully character gets handled in one of four ways:
With the exception of that last option, which tends to feel like the author can't figure out how to solve the character arc and just gave up, the other options have the common trend of pushing the characterization slider all the way one direction or another. The bully character ends up being a narrative device to illustrate how the protagonist (or the story, in an Author-Mandated Fate kind of way) handles them, rather than a character in their own right.
I was reminded of this cliche by an example that doesn't do it: Shintani from the game Judgment (a spinoff of the Yakuza/Like A Dragon series). Shintani clearly doesn't like protagonist Yagami, and the feeling is mutual. Shintani snipes and belittles Yagami almost every time they talk. Shintani is presented as the cynical, mediocre attorney compared to Yagami's up-and-rising lawyer career.
But Yagami and Shintani are professional enough to work together, and Shintani gives useful advice on how to handle various situations, based on his own longer experience, and without undue snark. More significantly, none of this "redeems" Shintani or changes his characterization; Shintani is still an arse. He's just also a professional lawyer, and Yagami can take the good advice ("this is how you handle a recalcitrant witness") while ignoring the bad ("young people these days blah blah blah").
Their mutual boss also recognizes Shintani and Yagami hate each other, and goes "I know the two of you can't stand each other, but at least try to work together and don't sabotage each other", and both Shintani and Yagami obey this without complaint.
The character type is the antagonistic bully, who belittles and insults the protagonist at almost every chance, but is not (at least to begin with) an outright enemy. Often, they're ostensibly on the same side as the protagonist; they just have a grudge against the protagonist for whatever reason.
The issue I have is this bully character gets handled in one of four ways:
- They get worse and worse, and eventually get their comeuppance.
- They are redeemed somehow, admitting they were wrong.
- They are shown to be Not As Bad, and eventually become a respected rival or friend.
- They are completely written out of the story with no resolution.
With the exception of that last option, which tends to feel like the author can't figure out how to solve the character arc and just gave up, the other options have the common trend of pushing the characterization slider all the way one direction or another. The bully character ends up being a narrative device to illustrate how the protagonist (or the story, in an Author-Mandated Fate kind of way) handles them, rather than a character in their own right.
I was reminded of this cliche by an example that doesn't do it: Shintani from the game Judgment (a spinoff of the Yakuza/Like A Dragon series). Shintani clearly doesn't like protagonist Yagami, and the feeling is mutual. Shintani snipes and belittles Yagami almost every time they talk. Shintani is presented as the cynical, mediocre attorney compared to Yagami's up-and-rising lawyer career.
But Yagami and Shintani are professional enough to work together, and Shintani gives useful advice on how to handle various situations, based on his own longer experience, and without undue snark. More significantly, none of this "redeems" Shintani or changes his characterization; Shintani is still an arse. He's just also a professional lawyer, and Yagami can take the good advice ("this is how you handle a recalcitrant witness") while ignoring the bad ("young people these days blah blah blah").
Their mutual boss also recognizes Shintani and Yagami hate each other, and goes "I know the two of you can't stand each other, but at least try to work together and don't sabotage each other", and both Shintani and Yagami obey this without complaint.
- Location
- Elsewhere
I would disagree a bit.
I've seen them "redeemed" or become a "friend" or "rival" before, but I've almost never seen them admit they were wrong, and any attempts to show they are Not As Bad is purely a relative statement.
"Yeah, I made your life a living hell for 10 years, and I liked it and refuse to apologize, but I'm not actually a demon, so you have to respect and help me fight the demons because you are Heroic! In return, I will only emotionally bully you from now on."
Basically it's a way to show how forgiving and accepting the MC is (and how they've given up on revenge) without any soppy emotions like an apology.
They may make an excuse, like "my parents are divorced so I take it out on you" but they didn't follow that up and say "-and that was wrong and I shouldn't do it."
It's often facilitated by someone else forcing them on the MC.
"So your bully found out your secret and is blackmailing us to force their way into the group because they think it's cool. They have no known skills or ability to contribute. You have to work with them and trust them with your life. I think we can all agree that blackmail is the same as an apology, so we won't be doing that."
Then afterwards they get some powerup or ability to be part of the team.
I would respect it more if they needed the bully first and had some plan to manipulate or trick them into helping, and it "backfired" in a way that turned into actual teamwork.
Instead it starts with:
Bully is a jackass
Bully is ever worse somehow
Bully is now part of the team, because Power of Friendship doesn't require friendship.
- Location
- Singapore
- Pronouns
- Singular They
I've seen it a few times, although offhand the examples I can think of are in stories where "if you're wrong, be better" is a major recurring theme. Other than a couple of games, these are largely in children's anime.