Ehhhhh Kabuto drop the healing to pursue his true passion: biological mad scientist and tell rule of morality to fuck off and mutate himself.
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Cliches you can't stand
- Thread starter Mithras
- Start date
Ehhhhh Kabuto drop the healing to pursue his true passion: biological mad scientist and tell rule of morality to fuck off and mutate himself.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
A staff that's suitable as a staff or as a tool of focusing magic probably isn't going to be well suited for delivering the kind of blunt force trauma that crumples armor plates.
Remember, people wore armor in real life because it worked- it was worth what was at the time a huge investment in very expensive metal to build personal protective gear out of the stuff. This is because proper body armor actually did stop a large fraction of all things that might otherwise kill you on a battlefield. If the answer to "armored man-at-arms" is "club go kabonk lol," then armor would never get off the ground in the first place because the first person to try wearing it would just get clubbed to death. Anyone can pick up a stick, so if all you have to do to have equal odds in a melee fight with an armored man is to pick up a stick, armor confers no advantage.
Blunt force weapons can work against armored opponents, but they tend to be specialized weapons like a proper mace with a flanged head.
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You ain't killing an armoured opponent with a walking stick any better than with a sword, sure.
A mages staff is, usually, magic. It's entirely reasonable for them to be capable of the kind of force transfer that will give a plate armoured opponent pause. I'm not saying this is 100% true in all cases, and there's an argument that you should hand such an item to a fighter anyway, but it's a lot more reasonable for an explicitly magical but otherwise undefined tool than a walking stick or even a mundane shod staff.
Axslashel
I am a pessimist not a realist.
- Location
- Land of the Midnight Sun
Could be. It could also be more fragile than a simple walking staff. Depends on the setting really. A finely crafted tool for channeling magic might very well not want the weaved in magic crystals to be shaken out of alignment by blunt force.
- Location
- Elsewhere
And that was also disappointing.
I'm fine with healers being badass fighters, but they always seem to do it in the more boring possible way, "I punch things and heal through damage."
Kabuto at least used his scalpel trick, which unlike every other attack in the series, actually disabled his opponents.
He hits them in the leg, and they are limping, etc...
That could actually make for an interesting fight where the opponent is avoiding attacks desperately, or even deciding what they could sacrifice to win.
Unfortunately the theme of the fight he was actually in was "everyone is disabled so we don't have to figure out what a real fight between 3 Legendary Ninja at their peak would actually be."
And then when he finally comes back into play, he's become boring again.
I get it.
Fight choreography is hard.
But it's really frustrating to have everyone reduced to the same dynamic to make it simpler, then take the interesting one and make them boring too.
Mhm, yes, if only there were an entire clan of ninja who has exactly that as their fighting style.
- Location
- Elsewhere
If you're talking about the Hyuuga, they end up exactly like everyone else, no matter what the flavor text says.
Series of punches, cough up blood, make a speech about determination, then continue fighting at 110%.
This is an especially worthwhile point to be had, considering how D&D, which let's face it, is very much the direct inspiration for most of the modern fantasy works, or at least was inspired by the same things those fantasy stories were likewise inspired by, has the Shillelagh spell, which pretty much does exactly what you're describing, by taking a regular staff and imbuing it with magical powers to boost it's damage accuracy.
- Location
- Russia
...somehow, Kapura's BS didn't even end up feeling out of place by the end? You could spin some BS about Vakama having an intrinsic connection to Time thanks to the Vahi and thus managing to teach him some of that BS but ultimately, Bionicle has a lot of BS flying about regardless so it doesn't feel particularly out of place.I don't think I personally mind such trends generally. I certainly don't have any complaints about Kapura's BS in Bionicle
- Location
- United States
The way Orihime's powers seem to be tied to her hair clips makes me think she could be a Fullbringer, although I don't think this is ever explicitly stated.
Being honest, his atack for me come as really boring at it just a regular atack that disable people. while him as kabuchimaru pushing himself to the max and all change he did to is own body using his expertise in medical jutso come as more intersting or at least to me.
Comrade Future
Man from Zeerust
- Location
- USSR
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
Recently my mother started watching the series The Following and it drives me crazy. For two reasons. The first is "gothic romanticism" (not a very good term, but that's a small thing) as something "inaccessible" to the Internet generation and similar to a "revelation" .... But you know - I'm 27 years old, and I have no problem absorbing such creativity. Not to mention that part of it is romantic literature (every other tabloid "women's novel" was second to Jane Eyre or Wuthering Heights). And not to mention video games, a bunch of film adaptations, and even music videos. It's not mainstream, but it's not something hidden behind seven seals. Secondly - another maniac obsessed with the work of Edgar Allan Poe. Maybe they should read his works first?
Comrade Future
Man from Zeerust
- Location
- USSR
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
Well, I'm talking about the Fox series where an FBI agent goes up against a cult led by a convicted serial killer - who is a former literature professor and a fan of Edgar Allan Poe.
In general, as I said, "Gothic Romanticism" is an unfortunate term. There is Gothic Literature - it is a direct ancestor and subgenre of horror and thriller literature (also influenced romantic literature and detective). We are talking about literature associated with nostalgic experiences of the past, dark secrets, creepy premonitions and aestheticized horror. In fact, we can recall "Frankenstein or the Modern Prometheus" as an example of Gothic Literature in the era of Romanticism. Dark Romanticism is a form of romanticism associated with an interest in dark experiences and macabre visions. These two terms are mixed up in the mass consciousness, although "Gothic Literature" will be broader in time and scope.
Edgar Allan Poe is a leader of American Dark Romanticism, and some of his works are close to Gothic - although today he is considered a Gothic author.
- Location
- Elsewhere
When the characters say "It can't be a spy/assassin/plot, they would never do something this stupid/clumsy/unprofessional."
Yes they would.
The heights of genius might be challenging to understand, but the depths of stupidity are utterly unfathomable.
Not to mention that it might look different from the other side.
Maybe they have different information?
Or some other priority?
Or maybe it's not notable at all?
It's not suspicious because it's happened a dozen times this week so far!
And whatever assumptions you're making, you might be wrong!
Hedge your bets.
Yes they would.
The heights of genius might be challenging to understand, but the depths of stupidity are utterly unfathomable.
Not to mention that it might look different from the other side.
Maybe they have different information?
Or some other priority?
Or maybe it's not notable at all?
It's not suspicious because it's happened a dozen times this week so far!
And whatever assumptions you're making, you might be wrong!
Hedge your bets.
Morganite
Happiness is a large book.
- Location
- Dynamis - Firefly Alley
I'm not really clear on what the thing you're describing has to do with the show. (Although I agree that it sounds more than slightly dubious.)
-Morgan.
Comrade Future
Man from Zeerust
- Location
- USSR
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
Well, the statement about "Gothic romanticism" is a retelling of a statement by one of the agents working on the case (who supposedly "studied alternative religions"). Mom watches, I'm sitting there minding my own business - and I hear something similar. My reaction was - "What the hell are you talking about?" And Mr. Poe... Well, the antagonist before the show was an expert on his work... and killed young girls in the name of a "Gothic hero" (there is no such thing either). However, this is not the first time he has been used in this way. For some reason, few people remember that Poe wrote humorous stories, or is one of the founders of the detective genre. And I have two or three collections of his works. One of which was even given to me for my birthday.
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
I mean, yes, but it's noteworthy they don't just, you know, kill the dude. They make it so it's not practical to jail him, usually because he dies in active combat with the heroes.
This is nonsense. A tool of focusing magic in the shape of a staff can be damn well anything you please because it's not a real thing and you could absolutely just go "yeah it's made of gromril or cold iron or my magic metal that's why it works and also why it's perfectly suitable for caving in that dude's head despite a helmet".
Fiction is not subject to game balance concerns! Wizards are allowed to have both traditional aesthetics and be good in melee if you feel like it!
Now don't make me get Subaru Nakajima, a literal punch mage, who literally delivers magic half the time in the form of hitting things with her fists, in here.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
It's not a matter of game balance, at least not for me. It's that it's a common (not universal, but common) rule of human endeavor that a well designed tool is optimized for one thing in particular, often at the expense of its capacity to perform other things.
You can try to use a flathead screwdriver as a chisel or a chisel as a flathead screwdriver, but in either case you are likely to be less than thrilled by the outcome. You can try to use a knife blade as either, but the result may be even less positive. To me, in general, on average, it would stand to reason that an optimized tool for amplifying or enabling spellcasting would probably not be well suited for use as a blunt instrument, most of the time.
You can absolutely write a story where there's an exception, where the optimum tool for a particular magic-user is a large bulky piece of metal, let's say.
Or where what matters isn't that the 'staff' is optimized so much as that it has a close personal connection to the caster, oh and the caster is a shepherd who happens to be the strongest guy in the village and it's the hardwood quarterstaff he carried before he found out about his magic, so you really don't want him hitting you with that thing. That one's my favorite.
But these would, to me, be exceptions, not the norm. Typically, there's some effort to make a narrative justification for why the magician is using a magical instrument that also doubles as a heavy blunt instrument and is reasonably skilled in using it for hand-to-hand combat. Absent such an effort, well... a man who has good reason to carry a knife blade everywhere may use it as a chisel when he's desperate, but he can't very well act surprised if it doesn't work well or breaks when he makes the attempt.
- Location
- Reading, Berks, UK
Suberu is only listed as a mage because she started off trying to be a staff wielding mage capable of long range doomlasers and dropped back to being a knight because neither she nor her inherited device were suitable for it. Her Divine Buster is massively shorter ranged than Nanoha's, being more like Cross Smasher, and she never improves on that for ranged attacks whereas Nanoha upgraded to Starlight Breaker in her first year and has since improved on it.
She's a Book of Nine Swords Fighter type like Signum rather than a Wizard like Hayate. She's also Warforged.
Which can be seen by her being trained by Vita rather than Nanoha.
Entropy Judge
Recurring Bouts of Misanthropy
IIRC, Subaru's Divine Buster has roughly two things in common with Nanoha's Divine Buster: being magic, and the name. The actual mechanics of the two spells are completely different, and Subaru's isn't *supposed* to be a ranged attack anyway; again IIRC she just borrowed the name due to a slight case of hero worship.
- Location
- Reading, Berks, UK
Suberu created it and named it when she was trying to be a long range blaster blaster mage in the year after the airport fire.
The whole point of my argument is her operational profile is knight rather than mage. So she's not a good example for a Wizard.
Morganite
Happiness is a large book.
- Location
- Dynamis - Firefly Alley
I thought it was about objects being both good casting foci and good hit-people-with weapons.
And Subaru does, AFAICT, carry a device that both helps her cast certain spells and is used by her to hit people with. Of course, it was designed specifically to be good at both of those things. (Plus she actually uses another device that handles a lot more of the heavy lifting on the casting side.)
Ultimately I think I'm with @Night on this - what does and doesn't help with casting is a setting feature, and it's going to depend on what the creator wants to push. If the creator wants the same kind of staff to be good for both casting spells and bashing enemies, then that's how staves are going to work.
(Personally, this is one point where I have to look a bit askance at some of the Atelier games, because in some of them the ones with the best combat stats are also the most fragile looking ones.)
-Morgan.