NemiTheNen
Perpetual Phone Poster
Yet I actually spelled it out?
Cliches you can't stand
- Thread starter Mithras
- Start date
Yet I actually spelled it out?
Vyslanté
The self is a prison
- Location
- European Union
I actually have no idea what the relevance of D&D there is, yes.
And the show makes the whole give modern ideals really obvious with how it changes Tyrion from holding democracy in sneering contempt in the books IIRC to advocating for it to Dany.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Honestly, Democracy is an easy one to have a character be opposed to. In comparison to thinking that Jews killed Christ etc, etc.
Edit: I'm speaking of in terms of the audience being able to read it, that is.
Because we're used to fantasy kingdoms and the like. We're not used to, "You know, if I were from the future, I'd think that Hitler did nothing wrong." Or whatever.
IIRC the people who pointed that out to me on another site also said he finds the idea of giving women a voice in a democracy or maybe it was any position in making decisions awful too but I wasn't able check and find a reference to either so I have no idea if either of those are actually true.
Mortis Nuntius
Theon Killjoy
- Location
- United Kingdom
Who is he?
- Location
- The Old Dominion
I am reminded of how republics(Rome, Venice) were seen as good while democracies(Ancient Athens and other Greek city states) were seen as being bad given how prone to falling under the sway of demagogues and generally very unstable ancient Greek city states tended to be while Rome's and Venice's lasted a very long time before their republics fell so I can understand how that view came about.
Oh, I was still talking about Tyrion.
Mortis Nuntius
Theon Killjoy
- Location
- United Kingdom
His main experience with female rulers is Cersei, Lysa and Catelyn. All three of whom imprison and threaten to kill him so he's going to have a negative view of them personally anyway. But when it comes to women in power he makes an entire speech about how awesome Daenerys is given the challenges she'd have needed to overcome and her deeds so far and he notes Sansa would make a good Queen and I think he's probably impressed with Margaery as well though I don't recall any specific thoughts on it.
He does have a problem with women though, many problems even but thinking they are incompetent and undeserving of power is not one of them as far as I can see.
Kylar
In Training Forever
- Location
- Canada
Given the number of people going 'what', it's possible you just badly explained it and clarification was legitimately needed.
Also, insulting people for asking you for clarification when they don't understand your point is just terrible behavior in general.
Uh. No.
Look, I've read the EU backwards and forwards. Grey Jedi is actually a term that is almost never used. And most of the people that it's applied to are Jedi who don't agree with the Council 100% and do their own thing often. They don't actually use the Dark Side.
(Hillariously, the person people hold up as the ur grey Jedi, Jolee Bindo? He's a Grey Jedi because he doesn't think the Council threw the book at him hard enough after his colossal fuck up with his wife.
I always find it funny how people tend to ignore what actually happened in Jolee's backstory.)
Now, there is one person who was legit using both sides of the Force and very much deserved the moniker Grey Jedi: Quinlan Vos. And he was an unstable rage bundle the Jedi legitimately were wondering if he needed stopping before he went to far. And by legitimately I mean stop torturing and murdering people Vos, you one step from going over the edge.
Now, in the fanon, you see the 'but Dark Side powers can be used for good' a lot- ignoring that these tend to be classified as such for being murder/torture powers. Not even really effective murder powers even.
So it's less the sides talking past each other, and more one side being made of Hard Men Making Hard Desicions and people looking to bash the Jedi for being closed minded about murder powers.
(Also, canon is pretty explicit about the whole 'the Dark Side isn't that bad' being a path to the Dark Side, by way of self justification. Becuase see murder/torture powers.)
The Victorian
Elven Supremacist
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
On a related note, I hate those damned articles that begin with, "What Game of Thrones Teaches Us About X" where "X" is any issue that's come up in the news. "House so-and-so is like Vladimir Putin and Russia! Assad is like House Whathisface!" And so on.
What does it say about our culture when we cannot speak of suffering and horror except through the lens of some trashy, fantasy soap opera?
From this article, which accurately sums up why I despise this show:
Could be worse with how Harry potter has now become "dae drumpf = voldemort and Hillary = hermione" but that is another day
- Location
- Somewhere
Which is completely wrong. Voldemort is Florida governor Rick Scott.
- Location
- BaWü
You are wrong as the picture clearly shows Rick Scoot is in possession of a nose, while Voldemort lost it in his way to immortality.
Kylar said:
I'd toss in Cade Skywalker, who thought he could get away with using whatever force power- and anger- that he wanted, and A'Sharad directly compared him to Vos (but more favorably to Vos!). Anyway, Cade was a total train wreck until he abandoned that line of thought.
the atom
Anarcho-Kemalist Thought Leader
- Location
- Comfortably numb
You don't need any imagination or drone campaigns for this actually. My understanding is that this is a fairly common attitude with people from hotter countries (Mexico in particular), who actually despise clear sunny days and prefer grey and cloudy because the latter is more associated with livability. This holds true even when it's -12 out.
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- Location
- Texas, US
When it comes to ASOIAF and "modern values" or whatever, I liked the contrast of Westeros with those islands. I forget the exact names but they had elected leaders, three of them, and you could easily strip one of them of their power if they went all Aerys II on you. But that place still had slavery. That's bad.
It's something Dragon Age does too where you have multiple states, each with their pros and cons.
It's something Dragon Age does too where you have multiple states, each with their pros and cons.
- Location
- Singapore
And the desert.
The sun?
Who worships the sun in the desert? Those trying to avoid being cooked alive.
The sun is seen as harsh. Unyielding. Maybe even cruel. Malicious. Uncaring.
In contrast, the moon is seen as kind and forgiving, gentler counterpart of the sun. A giver of blessed respite.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
On the subject of foreign values I'll note that our responses to evil acts isn't really correlated with their severity, but the extent which we can relate to it. People are liable to react to "villain wants to rape and kill woman" a lot worse than "supervillain wants to take over New York City with his army of giant robots" even though the second villain is objectively causing a lot more damage and ruining a lot more lives. If the negative actions are too alien for us to relate to the victims, or it happens offscreen or is only implied at best, we aren't liable to be as affected.
I am reminded of Order of the Stick, which kind of plays with this concept. Tarquin is initially played as a goofy over-the-top evil overlord supervillain that the protagonists sort of have to work with because reasons. It takes Tarquin spelling out exactly what kind of person he is in 200 foot tall flaming letters for Elan to finally take the hint. Yet at no point did Tarquin really act as anything other than what he was.
Speaking of its commented that Game of Thrones is still a fundamentally childish conception of medieval times, just the opposite of the sanitized version. Its all just RAEP BACKSTAB RAEP, with the plot focused firmly on nobility that don't really have to deal with problems outside of the aforementioned all-caps stuff. It overexaggerates some things while largely overlooking others.
I am reminded of Order of the Stick, which kind of plays with this concept. Tarquin is initially played as a goofy over-the-top evil overlord supervillain that the protagonists sort of have to work with because reasons. It takes Tarquin spelling out exactly what kind of person he is in 200 foot tall flaming letters for Elan to finally take the hint. Yet at no point did Tarquin really act as anything other than what he was.
Speaking of its commented that Game of Thrones is still a fundamentally childish conception of medieval times, just the opposite of the sanitized version. Its all just RAEP BACKSTAB RAEP, with the plot focused firmly on nobility that don't really have to deal with problems outside of the aforementioned all-caps stuff. It overexaggerates some things while largely overlooking others.
Warning: Warning
- Location
- United States, EST
- Pronouns
- He/Him
warning
This is mild enough to not warrant action, but I would like to take this opportunity to remind you that attacking another user through insinuations about their intelligence is not appreciated.
Carry on!
Carry on!
One cliche I can't stand- The main characters reach a new level of power, new opponents... and a lot of the opponents act green, act like amateurs, act overconfident like they'd never faced a wide variety of situations before, and it's like, "OK, the protagonists went through countless battles to get this far. You're supposed to be an experienced martial artist- or whatever- who's gone through countless battles to go this far. Why are you acting just like the scrubs from the first few arcs who didn't have to advance through that many stages of skill?".
vicky_molokh
Posthuman spidery thingy.
- Location
- Kyïv, Ukraine
Not high enough for 'cannot stand' yet, but getting tiring:
If there's a personal-to-squad-scale fight, the antagonist is the goliath and the protagonist is the flipping ninja (sometimes literally). This gets used more in some media than in others, e.g. MMO bosses, especially in Warfcraft, seem to lean hugely towards the bullet-spongy goliath type, while the players' characters dance around while trying to hit yet another weakspot. Robocop 3, while mostly a meh film, was remarkable for literally reversing the above trope with ninjas, contrasting it against 1 and 2.
If there's a personal-to-squad-scale fight, the antagonist is the goliath and the protagonist is the flipping ninja (sometimes literally). This gets used more in some media than in others, e.g. MMO bosses, especially in Warfcraft, seem to lean hugely towards the bullet-spongy goliath type, while the players' characters dance around while trying to hit yet another weakspot. Robocop 3, while mostly a meh film, was remarkable for literally reversing the above trope with ninjas, contrasting it against 1 and 2.
- Location
- Canada
For the Game Of Thrones thing, I will admit one of my biggest peeves was turning Yara (Asha in the books) gay. Now coming from me that might seem odd considering the stance on such things I have expressed before. But its because the show looked at a complicated character in the books and simplified her by simply forcing her through the framework of a modern eye (Tomboy= lesbian). While in the books... it's more complicated. She chaffs against her culture's expectations but at the same time seeks approval in them. She is both a rebel and a conservative. How that interacts with her sexuality can be seen with her relationship with Qarl the Maid a man who by all accounts looks pretty and womanly but is one of the fiercest fighters in the Iron Islands. You could say that she is going after him because she is gay or you can say she is going after him because she thinks of herself as an Ironborn warrior and captain and the qualities that Ironborn warriors seek out match what Qarl has. It can also be seen in how they have sex (Ie rape roleplay) with Qarl being the aggressor, I took this to mean that Asha is still acting out the cultural norms of her people (They are bloodthirsty raiders) even if she is simultaneously fighting against them.