Should the world be a Low Fantasy setting?

  • Yes

    Votes: 63 70.0%
  • No

    Votes: 27 30.0%

  • Total voters
    90
  • Poll closed .
Or we could recognize that Urth has been recognized as being on the road to ascension to godhood and if we do not keep him on the back foot, then he will be a permanent problem for us.
You are assuming that she's not already a 'permanent' problem for the Arthrwyd and the local area. You are assuming that she's not off the backfoot, as of now when we gave her (and ourself, mind) a mid-turn of respite after what I would chalk to be a one-for-one trade-off to her favour.

At this point, she's already a 'permanent' problem for us. A mid-long term problem that we should deal according to that term. It'd be better to think of her like Nagash from Warhammer Fantasy or Ganondorf from Zelda. You can hammer her down, you can burn all but the remnants of her empire to ash but you cannot expect that to last until you can be absolutely certain that she's (or whichever way the Lich will refer themselves as) well and truly dead. I mean, the first time didn't stick so how can he now, obviously more powered up than before, be certainly perma-killed?

So what does this mean? Actually following the hint from Oshha would be a way.
Other possibilities including going to the lowlands for allies against Urth or seeking new metals to wield against the undead.
Explore Lands = Lowlands or Study Metal options. Figure out ways or allies or just information on the Tyrant would be more helpful. After that, consolidate our gains, make use of the extra action, et cetera. Yes, Urth is trying to Ascend, but at that point, the Lich be well and truly within the realms of the Divine....with a Pantheon of five Goddesses gunning for their new godly arse.
 
Urth is hanging round near us because she wants something from us not because she has nowhere else to go.

Note that Urth is hanging about the Cursed Forest and the centre of their civilisation. Apart from two occasions, they have left the Arthwyd alone and even now, they have left you alone since their infiltration of Greenbay.

As of such, I would say that they haven't been hanging around the Arthwyd and have only bothered you twice even through they are over a thousand years old. Urth is only been sticking around near near you because they are the ruler of a civ neighbouring you.
 
You are assuming that she's not already a 'permanent' problem for the Arthrwyd and the local area. You are assuming that she's not off the backfoot, as of now when we gave her (and ourself, mind) a mid-turn of respite after what I would chalk to be a one-for-one trade-off to her favour.

At this point, she's already a 'permanent' problem for us. A mid-long term problem that we should deal according to that term. It'd be better to think of her like Nagash from Warhammer Fantasy or Ganondorf from Zelda. You can hammer her down, you can burn all but the remnants of her empire to ash but you cannot expect that to last until you can be absolutely certain that she's (or whichever way the Lich will refer themselves as) well and truly dead. I mean, the first time didn't stick so how can he now, obviously more powered up than before, be certainly perma-killed?

So what does this mean? Actually following the hint from Oshha would be a way.

Explore Lands = Lowlands or Study Metal options. Figure out ways or allies or just information on the Tyrant would be more helpful. After that, consolidate our gains, make use of the extra action, et cetera. Yes, Urth is trying to Ascend, but at that point, the Lich be well and truly within the realms of the Divine....with a Pantheon of five Goddesses gunning for their new godly arse.
The goddesses wont be doing a thing because urth is out of our range. Mainly arthryn who need people there.
Note that Urth is hanging about the Cursed Forest and the centre of their civilisation. Apart from two occasions, they have left the Arthwyd alone and even now, they have left you alone since their infiltration of Greenbay.

As of such, I would say that they haven't been hanging around the Arthwyd and have only bothered you twice even through they are over a thousand years old. Urth is only been sticking around near near you because they are the ruler of a civ neighbouring you.
Just because he has done it only twice doesnt mean the grievance is negligible or can be forgiven/forgotten. Furthermore he prepared a lot for that second time he attacked us. Which would probably be considerable amount of time spent against us.
Urth can rule near us and not bother us. Not like the lowlanders came to attack us until they were just trying to run away and settle down like the maradysh.
 
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The goddesses wont be doing a thing because urth is out of our range. Mainly arthryn who need people there.
Correction. Currently Urth is out of our range due to the fact that they are still mortal-ish. The Pantheon cannot reach Urth because of that particular tidbit. Turning into a God(dess) would mean that they would be in the same plane of existence as the Pantheon can finally reach them. Divine combat is a thing that can happen, as Arthryn managed to counter That-Which-Becomes All-Seerest and the Forest Spirits that had backed Urth V 1.0 and nullified his magic advantage against Evalyn.

In conclusion, Urth ascension would be a setback. But it would be one that shifts the tactics and playing field for everyone involved.
 
Correction. Currently Urth is out of our range due to the fact that they are still mortal-ish. The Pantheon cannot reach Urth because of that particular tidbit. Turning into a God(dess) would mean that they would be in the same plane of existence as the Pantheon can finally reach them. Divine combat is a thing that can happen, as Arthryn managed to counter That-Which-Becomes All-Seerest and the Forest Spirits that had backed Urth V 1.0 and nullified his magic advantage against Evalyn.

In conclusion, Urth ascension would be a setback. But it would be one that shifts the tactics and playing field for everyone involved.
Except Oshha said that Arthryn's range is the people. This can be seen in our history thus far, the only time arthryn conflicted with gods is when we had peoppe there. She forced the lowlander goddess back into tbe lowlands from the maradysh and the lowlander goddess was safe because she was out of range. How they fight may be in a different plane of existence, but the distance and range isnt unlimited.
 
OK, for the sake of clarification:

What happens if we lost an army, worst case scenario:

We lose another ruler, which means at least a potential stability loss. She ascend to godhood anyway and we didn't make a dent in her army whatsoever, and she's already doing something else, because we underestimated her civilization's strength.

What happens if we don't engage her and do the metal study thing?

She ascend to godhood, we don't lose a ruler. She might or might not start doing something else.
 
OK, for the sake of clarification:

What happens if we lost an army, worst case scenario:

We lose another ruler, which means at least a potential stability loss. She ascend to godhood anyway and we didn't make a dent in her army whatsoever, and she's already doing something else, because we underestimated her civilization's strength.

What happens if we don't engage her and do the metal study thing?

She ascend to godhood, we don't lose a ruler. She might or might not start doing something else.
That isnt worst case scenario tho.
It is for either of those situations.
Urth ascends to godhood, wants more power, and starts preparing and growing until they eventually want something else from us, in which case the difficulty is ten fold. Also what your advocating for us to never attack Urth again. "Just leave Urth alone after he screwed with us and ascends to godhood and hope he does something else" is rather submissive.

We did make a dent in Urth's army though. We may have lost much pf our army but that doesnt mean he didnt take any losses. Even in worst case its quite impossible that his army escapes unscathed. His army is large whole ours is high quality. If she does ascend and go on to do something else, its something that will make it far harder to beat them later on. Unless your fine without ever challenging urth and accept our new undead overlords when they plan to get the rest of our civ under them if they can and or plan to conquer us if it benefits them.
 
OK, for the sake of clarification:

What happens if we lost an army, worst case scenario:

We lose another ruler, which means at least a potential stability loss. She ascend to godhood anyway and we didn't make a dent in her army whatsoever, and she's already doing something else, because we underestimated her civilization's strength.

What happens if we don't engage her and do the metal study thing?

She ascend to godhood, we don't lose a ruler. She might or might not start doing something else.
Sounds like you want main war party to make sure we don't repeat last times events, Urth becoming a god is so bad that it trivialises losing a ruler either way.
 
Sounds like you want main war party to make sure we don't repeat last times events, Urth becoming a god is so bad that it trivialises losing a ruler either way.
To be fair, I think there are fairly even pros and cons for Urth to want to become a God

Pros: far more powerful, no longer able to be inconvenienced by mortals like they were by Evalyn

Cons: no longer able to directly intervene as much and thus overall weakens their civ, and ascending puts them into knife-fighting range of Arthryn, which is bad for Urth.
 
Sounds like you want main war party to make sure we don't repeat last times events, Urth becoming a god is so bad that it trivialises losing a ruler either way.
No, want we want is a Main Settle action, so we have 3 actions we control next turn, and 1 province action that we don't control. All working together to help us actually take Urth out. We could take a Study Metal, Build Palisade, and War Party actions all next turn that way. With a province action doing something else to help us. The study metal and palisade because we have quests for those that end next turn, a war party making use of the new study metal stuff, which hopefully gets us bronze, making us significantly more effective. The turn after that, we could explore the lowlands (assuming our free explore action from study metal doesn't already do that), and Main Train more Sacred Warriors giving us a permanent increase to Martial, as well as having a high likelihood of giving us new military tech. If we don't have to explore the lowlands we could also send those newly trained Sacred Warriors on a War party.

If we don't take Main Settle this turn, then we won't be able to fight this war and complete the quests for the farmers and crafters. Both groups that we want to build up in our people, which we do by completing their quests. We also stave off that looming crises the Elders are warning us about. Its just, the best option we can take with what we currently know. We don't know how much time or effort it takes to fully stop Urths plans or how far along they are. We don't even know if he's staying in the Cursed Forest instead of going to the Lowlands where we know nothing about and he's conquered the whole of before. Attacking now just isn't a good plan. We need to get ourselves built up first, at which point we'll be able to actually start making progress.
 
Sounds like you want main war party to make sure we don't repeat last times events, Urth becoming a god is so bad that it trivialises losing a ruler either way.
You could also approval vote for the sec settle and war party.
To be fair, I think there are fairly even pros and cons for Urth to want to become a God

Pros: far more powerful, no longer able to be inconvenienced by mortals like they were by Evalyn

Cons: no longer able to directly intervene as much and thus overall weakens their civ, and ascending puts them into knife-fighting range of Arthryn, which is bad for Urth.
Provided arthryn can touch him. This is Urth, we should expect him to make sure he doesn't put himself in a position to get screwed over if possible. Meaning he'll make sure to stay out of range if possible.
 
No, want we want is a Main Settle action, so we have 3 actions we control next turn, and 1 province action that we don't control. All working together to help us actually take Urth out. We could take a Study Metal, Build Palisade, and War Party actions all next turn that way. With a province action doing something else to help us. The study metal and palisade because we have quests for those that end next turn, a war party making use of the new study metal stuff, which hopefully gets us bronze, making us significantly more effective. The turn after that, we could explore the lowlands (assuming our free explore action from study metal doesn't already do that), and Main Train more Sacred Warriors giving us a permanent increase to Martial, as well as having a high likelihood of giving us new military tech. If we don't have to explore the lowlands we could also send those newly trained Sacred Warriors on a War party.

If we don't take Main Settle this turn, then we won't be able to fight this war and complete the quests for the farmers and crafters. Both groups that we want to build up in our people, which we do by completing their quests. We also stave off that looming crises the Elders are warning us about. Its just, the best option we can take with what we currently know. We don't know how much time or effort it takes to fully stop Urths plans or how far along they are. We don't even know if he's staying in the Cursed Forest instead of going to the Lowlands where we know nothing about and he's conquered the whole of before. Attacking now just isn't a good plan. We need to get ourselves built up first, at which point we'll be able to actually start making progress.
That would be a sec war mission after giving him Urth a turn to recover. I want a main War Mission now. What you offered is a fantastic way of picking the worst of all worlds. o_O
You could also approval vote for the sec settle and war party
Your premise is flawed. I do not approve of that thus I shall not approval vote for it.
 
That would be a sec war mission after giving him Urth a turn to recover. I want a main War Mission now. What you offered is a fantastic way of picking the worst of all worlds. o_O

Your premise is flawed. I do not approve of that thus I shall not approval vote for it.
Then
Assuming main war party were not to win
What would you vote for? To not attack at all and build up or to attacking at the very least a little?
 
If main war party does not win then my vote is to make sure that no one hears the end of it while we're detained in Urths death camps awaiting processing.
I find it far more likely that's what would happen if we sent a Main War Party this turn. He'd just kill all of our people, use their bodies as zombies, and take us over because we sent our entire military into a deathtrap.
 
I find it far more likely that's what would happen if we sent a Main War Party this turn. He'd just kill all of our people, use their bodies as zombies, and take us over because we sent our entire military into a deathtrap.
In that case, vote main war party and if you're right then you can say I told you so when that happens.
Although it does seem strange you're complaining about a death trap when you think a sec action after giving him time to repair his defenses is sufficient.
 
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I find it far more likely that's what would happen if we sent a Main War Party this turn. He'd just kill all of our people, use their bodies as zombies, and take us over because we sent our entire military into a deathtrap.
Thats rather unlikely and pessimistic rather then likely or reasonbly possible.
 
In that case, vote main war party and if you're right then you can say I told you so when that happens.
Although it does seem strange you're complaining about a death trap when you think a sec action after giving him time to repair his defenses is sufficient.
I mean, I don't. Just that we'd be able to do it with Bronze weapons/armor giving us a much greater chance than without. Personally, I'd prefer to Main Settle this turn. Build Pallisade, Study Metal, and Explore Lowlands the turn after, then Main Train Sacred Warriors, and, study metal, trade lowlands, or war party lowlands dependent on what we find there with the explore action.
 
I mean, I don't. Just that we'd be able to do it with Bronze weapons/armor giving us a much greater chance than without. Personally, I'd prefer to Main Settle this turn. Build Pallisade, Study Metal, and Explore Lowlands the turn after, then Main Train Sacred Warriors, and, study metal, trade lowlands, or war party lowlands dependent on what we find there with the explore action.
Aren't you betting a lot on that Study metal a couple of times gives us Bronze? What if we have a bad roll, or that bronze requires a crit and we just get a normal roll.
Thats ignoring the assumption that within the space of one turn we are somehow able to establish tin mines (we do already have copper I assume) and get our production up to the stage that we're outfitting our armies with it.
Seems like a pretty stupid plan, or are you actually planning on not doing anything until we get bronze?
 
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Aren't you betting a lot on that Study metal a couple of times gives us Bronze? What if we have a bad roll, or that bronze requires a crit and we just get a normal roll.
Thats ignoring the assumption that within the space of one turn we are somehow able to establish tin mines (we do already have copper I assume) and get our production up to the stage that we're outfitting our armies with it.
Seems like a pretty stupid plan, or are you actually planning on not doing anything until we get bronze?
We already have tin mines, we already know how to smelt both copper and tin. Its literally just mixing it together that we need to do. 2 study metal actions ought to be enough to do that. Sending a war party against a double hero martial/mystic while we have no heroes is something that seems like a poor idea to me. I really can't support anything of the sort without something significant to give us an edge, such as bronze.
 
We already have tin mines, we already know how to smelt both copper and tin. Its literally just mixing it together that we need to do. 2 study metal actions ought to be enough to do that. Sending a war party against a double hero martial/mystic while we have no heroes is something that seems like a poor idea to me. I really can't support anything of the sort without something significant to give us an edge, such as bronze.
Huh, you are correct.
Materials
...

Copper
...
Tin
When did we get that?

Alright Bronze is more likely than I gave it credit for.
 
Huh, you are correct.

When did we get that?

Alright Bronze is more likely than I gave it credit for.
Now, I totally get wanting to send the Main War Party, I just don't think its a good idea while they have a double hero and we don't have a hero at all, especially when a force half the size lead by a hero already got beaten. Having a hero lead us gives us more of a bonus than the double troops does. Or at least, that's my current understanding of how combat works. It seems to me that we need that bronze to really have a chance to win that fight. At least, without us rolling up a martial hero.
 
Now, I totally get wanting to send the Main War Party, I just don't think its a good idea while they have a double hero and we don't have a hero at all, especially when a force half the size lead by a hero already got beaten. Having a hero lead us gives us more of a bonus than the double troops does. Or at least, that's my current understanding of how combat works. It seems to me that we need that bronze to really have a chance to win that fight. At least, without us rolling up a martial hero.
This is totally baseless speculation on the mechanics so unless oshha decides to clarify.
 
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