Should the world be a Low Fantasy setting?

  • Yes

    Votes: 63 70.0%
  • No

    Votes: 27 30.0%

  • Total voters
    90
  • Poll closed .
Quality Of Its Own involves rounding up farmers , handing them a spear and telling them to charge. A big loss in battle drops Econ, and can drop it below zero causing famine.
I don't think that suits our civilisation, and we are already having issues affording some Actions.
 
They'll get swamped by hordes of nomads. Quantity, my friends, quantity.
That's the point of guerrilla warfare though. To not get swamped and pick choose battles because direct confrontation is death.

Comrades, IRL the mongols were nigh impossible to beat directly.
The best way to hold them back was a lot of fortified locations using area denial and ambush/raid tactics aka gorilla warfare.
You'd think that having more troops would help you, but it really wouldn't. The enemy has numbers, more importantly, trained numbers, all of which on horseback. Even if we could recruit to have an equal number of soldiers, they wouldn't be as trained, nor would they be on horseback. Furthermore, they'd only be mostly useful for direct confrontation and would probably screw up a lot of raids.

Small trained units would result in the best case scenario for dealing damage to the enemy. We hold ground where we can, and focus on grinding the enemy with a higher k/d ratio to get rid of their numbers advantage.
If we can A. Force them down to numbers closer to ours, we would win the war most likely.
or if we can B. Kill their hero.

Therefore, If we focus on elite units that maximize damage dealt while limiting damage taken, we can attrition the enemy into defeat and force them to end their incursion. If we kill their hero, our martial hero(es?) can make due and end the nomads, as they will have lost their head, their unifying factor. If they really are an expy of the mongols, they might even return home for the funeral.

Also, question @Oshha When you say the nomad incursion began fornicating, did they do any of it with our people? Or was it just them mating with each other while others worked in forced labor?
 
Can we please not choose the shitty sacred warriors? They don't play to our strengths at all. Our main strength has always been our supperior Econ and the regular soldiers benifit way more from that than a small group of elites. We also don't have the hard hitting kind of magics that would suit the Sacred warriors but rather the universal blessing that suit a more normal military.

There is also the cultural implications of these guys in that it might make us... what's the word?... Crusady. I have no interest in that Sacred War garbage.
 
I'm not going to. Maintaining it would take up too much time and effort for me to consider it worth it.



That is intentional.
Well, worth a try at least.

I suppose updating AIs stats is too much of a hassle. Especially with the good rate of update you have now. If it slows down just to update the rival civs stats.

Yeah, definitely not worth it.
 
Yes, but not good enough for sacred warriors to be a viable solution. The magic we have is more geared towards massed armies.
Is it really?

Because combat precognition is the type of magic that's very useful and requires the user to be a good enough fighter to make use of the knowledge. And limited healing is better if you have limited soldiers to heal.
 
So, to those who think that few elite troops are not enough to win the war, let me remind you of the new blessing Arthwyn gave us this turn.

You know who else have been described as "at the natural limit a human can reach"? Batman.

That's right, our Sacred Troops will for a brief while be small versions of Batman and Captain America within one area. And if that is not worth praising the Godessess, I don't know what is.


I mean, we're probably the best civ at magic left, at least in our corner of the pond. The only one who could challenge us on that level are the nomads, and I'm pretty sure we would've noticed if they had significant deiffic backing.
See, shit like this is why I never wanted a low fantasy setting in the first place. Everyone is too concentrated on magic and shit and forgets that it's not the game-breaker they think it's going to be!
Quality Of Its Own involves rounding up farmers , handing them a spear and telling them to charge. A big loss in battle drops Econ, and can drop it below zero causing famine.
I don't think that suits our civilisation, and we are already having issues affording some Actions.
But we'll somehow be able to afford Warriors that are even more expensive than normal because....
 
I mean, we're probably the best civ at magic left, at least in our corner of the pond. The only one who could challenge us on that level are the nomads, and I'm pretty sure we would've noticed if they had significant deiffic backing.

I would be heavly surprised if they had much magic on their side to behonest.
As nomands they are unlikely to have any specialisation which magic kind of needs.

Yes, but not good enough for sacred warriors to be a viable solution. The magic we have is more geared towards massed armies.

go and read what magic we have access to, that includes combat pre-cog abilitys which is best in the hands of eilite same with the booster.
 
I don't think that suits our civilisation
Clinging to our ideals above our else will cause the civ's demise; refusal to adapt to changing situations will result in us becoming increasingly irrelevant until we suffer a similar fate to the Spirit Talkers in PoC.
we are already having issues affording some Actions.
Temp econ losses don't affect that much, since we're not going to be doing infrastructural projects or whatever during a war.
Also, question @Oshha When you say the nomad incursion began fornicating, did they do any of it with our people? Or was it just them mating with each other while others worked in forced labor?
If that were the case I'd expect them to be able to do so without their bands having to meet up with each other.
 
So quick people are, to give up all power to a bunch of shitty elites who are going to fuck us over in the long term.

Sacred War is what caused the collapse of the Spirit Talkers, it's not a good solution.
 
Is it really?
Because combat precognition is the type of magic that's very useful and requires the user to be a good enough fighter to make use of the knowledge. And limited healing is better if you have limited soldiers to heal.
Widespread limited healing; each magic user can only do some healing, but the magic users themselves aren't in short supply. More of a platoon medic role to be honest.
I don't remember anything about magic precognition; I think have missed something.
Sacred War is what caused the collapse of the Spirit Talkers, it's not a good solution.
Among other things, it requires us to actively declare war on anyone we find evil. Imagine if we'd gone to war against the forest folk as soon as we learned about them.
We need to pick our wars to survive; being forced to declare crusades on evil civs is will get us wiped out.
 
Last edited:
@Oshha if the boarfolk wipe out/enslave us, does the quest end?

No and they can't take you out anyway. The Arthwyd are inaccessible to them so at best, they could conquer the Merntir.

Also, question @Oshha When you say the nomad incursion began fornicating, did they do any of it with our people? Or was it just them mating with each other while others worked in forced labor?

The latter. They would have done the former, but Vervov figured out how that sort of thing was backfiring on them.

Sacred War is what caused the collapse of the Spirit Talkers, it's not a good solution.

Wasn't so the fact they were terrible farmers and focused too much on the mystic instead of other things like their economy or diplomatic relations?
 
[x] Sacred Warriors. The People shall not follow the barbaric practices of the lowlands, but shall train warriors that serve the goddesses in sacred duty. They shall be few in number and take more resources to train, but it will make the People happier and they shall be better than regular warriors. (-1 Temp Mystic, -1 Temp Culture, +1 Stability, Gain Value Sacred War)

We'll have to Venerate the Goddesses next main turn, to thank them for saving our butts and hopefully get Stability back.
 
Wasn't so the fact they were terrible farmers and focused too much on the mystic instead of other things like their economy or diplomatic relations?
Also the fact that they couldn't (or wouldn't?) bow out of conflicts because of the Stability loss, even though they needed the peace in order to actually rebuild.
 
So quick people are, to give up all power to a bunch of shitty elites who are going to fuck us over in the long term.

Sacred War is what caused the collapse of the Spirit Talkers, it's not a good solution.

yes, because it is what will lead to us being locked into wars and not our other traits and blessing that already do so ...

We also have real magic here compared to it not being a thing PoC.
 
Also the fact that they couldn't (or wouldn't?) bow out of conflicts because of the Stability loss, even though they needed the peace in order to actually rebuild.

Yeah, I think it was a mixture of them being bad at dealing with econ and diplo matters whilst being overfocused on mystic and martial matters.
 
Wasn't so the fact they were terrible farmers and focused too much on the mystic instead of other things like their economy or diplomatic relations?
My impression was that they wore themselves down in religiously-motivated wars against the Dead Priests and others. I'm probably wrong though; it's been a while since I read it.
yes, because it is what will lead to us being locked into wars and not our other traits and blessing that already do so ...
They force us to retaliate if a civ takes our territory. They don't force us to declare war on civs before they attack us.
We also have real magic here compared to it not being a thing PoC.
Having real magic just means our sacred warriors are more skilled than they would be. It doesn't address the fundamental issues of our civ being more geared towards massed armies.
 
Last edited:
yes, because it is what will lead to us being locked into wars and not our other traits and blessing that already do so ...

We also have real magic here compared to it not being a thing PoC.
What are you on about? None of our current traits force us into conflict. The nomads are attacking us, we are on the defense. Unless you would like us to simply roll over.
 
[X] Sacred Warriors. The People shall not follow the barbaric practices of the lowlands, but shall train warriors that serve the goddesses in sacred duty. They shall be few in number and take more resources to train, but it will make the People happier and they shall be better than regular warriors. (-1 Temp Mystic, -1 Temp Culture, +1 Stability, Gain Value Sacred War)
 
yes, because it is what will lead to us being locked into wars and not our other traits and blessing that already do so ...

We also have real magic here compared to it not being a thing PoC.
Let's actually take a look at the Values, shall we.
Loyal Neighbours
The People do not abandon their own. They stand by their neighbours and community through thick and thin and do not yield when it comes to protecting their fellows.
Pros: Increased Unity during times of crisis,
Cons: Legitimacy loss when abandoning members of the People to harm and danger,

From the original Path of Civilization Sacred War means: Those who are in violation of the laws of the goddesses must be punished
Pros: Bonuses to fighting foes with conflicting spiritual beliefs
Cons: Can become locked into fighting with foes with conflicting spiritual beliefs
Sacred War's con is far worse than that of Loyal Neighbours, as it's far more general and will thus see far more use. Foes with conflicting spiritual beliefs are literally a dime a dozen. "Abandoning members of the People to harm and danger" also has a good chance of triggering, but also a good chance of NOT triggering. Not all peace deals end with us abandoning some of our own.

But what's even worse is that the two of them combined would make it almost impossible for us to actually try to peace out of a conflict, as the combined loss of Stability and Legitimacy (or double loss of Legitimacy?) will bring our civilization into unstable times, especially if they're already pretty low.

If you already have a problem ("potentially get locked into wars"), don't double down on it!
 
What are you on about? None of our current traits force us into conflict. The nomads are attacking us, we are on the defense. Unless you would like us to simply roll over.

Did you read to what i responded ?

Because his problem with Sacred Warriors is that we gain the value Sacred War which can lock us into wars.
The thing here is that for it to trigger with our anything close to our current civ we are already locked into the war thanks to our traints (Communal Mandate and Loyal Neighbours) and our blessing.
 
Let's actually take a look at the Values, shall we.



Sacred War's con is far worse than that of Loyal Neighbours, as it's far more general and will thus see far more use. Foes with conflicting spiritual beliefs are literally a dime a dozen. "Abandoning members of the People to harm and danger" also has a good chance of triggering, but also a good chance of NOT triggering. Not all peace deals end with us abandoning some of our own.

But what's even worse is that the two of them combined would make it almost impossible for us to actually try to peace out of a conflict, as the combined loss of Stability and Legitimacy (or double loss of Legitimacy?) will bring our civilization into unstable times, especially if they're already pretty low.

If you already have a problem ("potentially get locked into wars"), don't double down on it!
We won't necessarily have the same version of Sacred War as in PoC. The Arthwyd are more isolationist than them I think.
 
[X] Sacred Warriors
Why? Several reasons.
Nomads are just too GOOD in martial, frankly and given that these are like boar-folk riding Giant Boars I question if the whole 'walled city' thing will work out since if they can muster enough Boar Power! to say, smash through walls, we're screwed if we go walled cities.
Plus... to my understanding, even if we can catch them in terms of pure martial, there's still the mobility advantage. And even if we can match both factors there's still the fact that we have the villages as weak points, and they don't.
Simply put, Standing armies don't work that well when we DO have the martial to fight them straight up because mobility bypass.
And we don't have that it seems.
So instead of playing the game where we just try and hold the line, we play another game. Especially since high Martial I think tends to go hand in hand with honor codes, which will work REALLY well with Sacred Warriors.
So we have a small cabal of hero warriors, we call out theirs, and it works much better since if we win we cut out their important Khans that they need to truly rally their full power, without being stuck dealing with a giant horde of super-skilled warriors.
 
@Oshha
Thanks for the clarification.
one other question
When we slaughtered the enemy in our ambush to kill the enemy hero, did we find any boars alive? or were they all killed and/or we didn't get any?
 
Back
Top