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CHESS MAFIA 2

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NemoMarx said:
I don't really understand Meso's play this game, or at least the push on Zael feels odd to me?

I wanna do a proper rethink of how the wagon formed last time, analyze that maybe...
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It's pretty straightforward. The push against hugh felt really off to me. Zaealix had some really weird, kind of anti-town play.

Rosen stepped in to defend Z on the grounds of a "soulread". Rosen was scum.

Between these things, Z seems at least worth looking at.
 
On the one hand the soul read was weird, on the other hand Zae is also someone where I would not be surprised by weird plays.
So I am felling some sus both on the target of the wagon and the jump on the waggon right now.
 
mesonoxian said:
I think it might be premature to discuss that.
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mesonoxian said:
It risks revealing info to scum. If the Queen kill wasn't the scum kill, scum don't know how their target survived. Leaving them in the dark on that is preferable to the alternative.
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hailcapital said:
Seems fine to discuss it a bit to me, I just think that if someone had a nightkill directed at them they shouldn't say so, since scum could potentially have watched them as well and use that to identify a town PR.
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Hmm...See my issue with this is fear of Scum having a watcher and learning info...but here's the thing. If a town member was attacked and they survived for bulletproof or Doctor they know it and scum know it. If scum has watcher they have that info anyway and we don't. What it does give us an idea of is if Zae being RB'd is indicative of anything really.

mesonoxian said:
Rosen stepped in to defend Z on the grounds of a "soulread". Rosen was scum.

Between these things, Z seems at least worth looking at.
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At least looked at yes....but Rosen has done this exact same thing as town. Example being the mountainous game.

Shadell said:
@Nictis @Cyricubed @QTesseract Gun to the head, if day were to end in 10 minutes, how'd you be voting and why?
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Either Nictis or Meso atm. I need to get back to you on the why
 
mesonoxian said:
It's pretty straightforward. The push against hugh felt really off to me. Zaealix had some really weird, kind of anti-town play.

Rosen stepped in to defend Z on the grounds of a "soulread". Rosen was scum.

Between these things, Z seems at least worth looking at.
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Rosens kinda evidence, but A, would scum "soulread" other scum that obviously? A town pocket is just as likely, right?

And you were leery on Zaealix D1, so I at least want to hear more about the anti town play and the case there. I don't think "rosen was nice to them" is evidence in that way, at least.
 
NemoMarx said:
Rosens kinda evidence, but A, would scum "soulread" other scum that obviously? A town pocket is just as likely, right?

And you were leery on Zaealix D1, so I at least want to hear more about the anti town play and the case there. I don't think "rosen was nice to them" is evidence in that way, at least.
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The claiming specifically to be a pawn, and the arbitrary lists both just didn't seem quite right. they felt scummy.

More so than the case against Hugh, at any rate.

Everyone backed off Zaealix due to Rosen, and then Rosen flipped scum. That could be some long game Rosen was planning to set up, like I said before. But it could also be an attempt to keep a less experienced team mate in the game.

Zaealix and hail were the people drawing heat when Rosen started in on Hugh. Since that is the only real information we have to work on, it seemed as good a place as any to start.
 
Shadell said:
I like the vibe on voting Meso, and I want more to be happening in thread so

[x] vote Mesonoxian

Pressure
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I've not really had much time today to do anything with the game. I was one of the more active people yesterday, though?

I have stated suspicions against you for your post at the start of day, and hail for being the apparent primary beneficiary of the push on hugh. I think that is most anybody has put forward at this point outside mechanical speculations about Pawn neighborhoods.

So what are you after? Just "pressure" is very little to work with.
 
Cyricubed said:
Hmm...See my issue with this is fear of Scum having a watcher and learning info...but here's the thing. If a town member was attacked and they survived for bulletproof or Doctor they know it and scum know it. If scum has watcher they have that info anyway and we don't. What it does give us an idea of is if Zae being RB'd is indicative of anything really.



At least looked at yes....but Rosen has done this exact same thing as town. Example being the mountainous game.



Either Nictis or Meso atm. I need to get back to you on the why
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I would rather like you to get back to me on the why.

I don't think someone protected by a Rook would know they were attacked. The problem is that the scum might well not know whether they hit a rook because their target was a rook or hit a rook because of bodyguarding. The targeting saying "nothing happened to me" would confirm it one way or the other, while giving town basically zilch. So generic answers to "what happened to you last night" aren't useful.

Positive answers that can be used to hunt scum are great, though at this point I doubt there are many of those available.
 
I can't say anything useful as far as night actions go.
Especially considering -Rosen's move to cover me. Pattern-based or not, it's not hard to imagine Scum team setting me aside in favor of higher-quality targets.
 
mesonoxian said:
I have stated suspicions against you for your post at the start of day, and hail for being the apparent primary beneficiary of the push on hugh. I think that is most anybody has put forward at this point outside mechanical speculations about Pawn neighborhoods.
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Mostly vibes.


mesonoxian said:
This post kind of bugs me. The assumption the Queen is Black rather than redirected seems premature, and the other bit looks like "hey, please notice this distancing".
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Calling the kill and redirecting onto scum seems less likely to me than killing scum given the number of protective powers plausibly in place. A town queen hitting scum night 1 is a good move, but not super implausible (same with redirecting onto -Rosen there though.)

Out of 15 living players, 2 are rooks and won't die to normal night kills, up to 2 are protected by rooks and don't die that night, up to 1 is healed by a bishop (later made less likely) and up to 2 are healed by knights. That's up to 7 outgoing heals.

I think it's simpler to assume that one of several protective options in play worked and the queen got a good read than that a single redirect did everything (I'd also lean toward avoid outing the queen as scum if viable there, though I can see reasons both ways on that.)
 
Shadell said:
Mostly vibes.




Calling the kill and redirecting onto scum seems less likely to me than killing scum given the number of protective powers plausibly in place. A town queen hitting scum night 1 is a good move, but not super implausible (same with redirecting onto -Rosen there though.)

Out of 15 living players, 2 are rooks and won't die to normal night kills, up to 2 are protected by rooks and don't die that night, up to 1 is healed by a bishop (later made less likely) and up to 2 are healed by knights. That's up to 7 outgoing heals.

I think it's simpler to assume that one of several protective options in play worked and the queen got a good read than that a single redirect did everything (I'd also lean toward avoid outing the queen as scum if viable there, though I can see reasons both ways on that.)
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I mean "everything" is just Rosen dying. It would literally just take someone scum reading them and pointing a redirect there way.

But a Black Queen nailing scum night one isn't too wildly improbable. I just think it is odd to have immediately decided that there isn't a scum Queen without other knowledge.
 
The interesting thing is that if that happened, one of the redirecters would know the identity of the Queen.
 
But it's interesting to note that there's no scum kill, and only one queen kill. So...

Queen either kill Rosen or got redirected to him.
Queenside Bishop blocks me for some reason.
Knights either hasn't done anything, tracked someone, healed someone, or deflecting to Rosen.
Rook either does nothing or watch someone.

Now, where does the scum go? Bishop cannot roleblock any of them because I was roleblocked. Rook and knights deflect, so a scum kill would have still happen. Ergo, the queen is scum who shot their own teammate.
 
NinetyNineLies said:
But it's interesting to note that there's no scum kill, and only one queen kill. So...

Queen either kill Rosen or got redirected to him.
Queenside Bishop blocks me for some reason.
Knights either hasn't done anything, tracked someone, healed someone, or deflecting to Rosen.
Rook either does nothing or watch someone.

Now, where does the scum go? Bishop cannot roleblock any of them because I was roleblocked. Rook and knights deflect, so a scum kill would have still happen. Ergo, the queen is scum who shot their own teammate.
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Or the rook or knights are choosing not to out themselves Day 2.

Which is almost certainly the right call. Sharing role info that doesn't keep you alive or kill scum is not a good plan.
 
Terrabrand said:
  • By sending a message containing the words 'Bodyguard [player]', you use the famed castling move to prevent any attack on their personage, physically intercepting it yourself. You will be unable to actually retaliate, and you are no more immune than usual, but will surely and valiantly protect your charge, even if it costs you your life. This is the only means by which His Majesty may be protected at night.
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If the part I'm reading is right, had rook bodyguard someone and got shot by scum, he'll still die and show up in the beginning of the day.
 
No wait, just read the one-use vest.

Guess only the rooks will know if the queen is scum or not.
 
mesonoxian said:
The interesting thing is that if that happened, one of the redirecters would know the identity of the Queen.
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No? At best they could suspect that the queen is white. If there was a redirection last night, only scum would know for sure. Knight rediection only deflects off themselves and is completely quiet for them. If there was a knight deflection into -Rosen, to the knight, the worlds of "I redirect to -Rosen, Queen attacked me and I deflected it into -Rosen" is identical to "I redirect to -Rosen, Queen attacks -Rosen."
 
Last night can either follows two paths.

Queen killed Rosen while Rook bodyguards from scum kill.
or
Queen targeted someone else but got redirected to Rosen by one of the knights.
 
QTesseract said:
No? At best they could suspect that the queen is white. If there was a redirection last night, only scum would know for sure. Knight rediection only deflects off themselves and is completely quiet for them. If there was a knight deflection into -Rosen, to the knight, the worlds of "I redirect to -Rosen, Queen attacked me and I deflected it into -Rosen" is identical to "I redirect to -Rosen, Queen attacks -Rosen."
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You're right. For some reason I was thinking they picked whose attack to redirect. I made the same mistake last Chess Mafia game I think.

Embarrassing.
 
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