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CHESS MAFIA 2

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NemoMarx said:
So... I don't wanna mess up your plans @QTesseract if you still have to solve this, but since I know I'm not scum.

[X] Vote Projject_Delta

That should nicely tie us up, so I hope you can join me in voting and then we can win this game. Easy enough!
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Yeah, I've got a timer. I've been much more confident you were town all day, just been looking to see if there was anything that would convince me otherwise. Haven't found anything and I doubt the last 23 mins will change my mind.

[X] Vote Projject_Delta

If you are scum, wp; this was our game to lose.
 
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Game Ends
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    • Game End

    As darkness falls, the infiltrating White Queen turns to the task of at last removing the King.

    @QTesseract, the King, has been [Royally Beaten].

    And when things wind up down to just a Queen and a Knight facing off, well, that outlook would be grim even without the saboteurs methods.

    @Zaealix, a Promoted Pawn: Knight, is forced to surrender.

    @NemoMarx, the Promoted Pawn: Queen, stands unopposed and victorious.

    The Four White Saboteurs have won.
     
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    • Projject_Delta said:
    I mean, there's nothing I can really do now, I've been an Pawn all game, never really had much to do, so there's that.

    If its anything I did Hard Sus Shalmoa and was right about it. I hope I get to ask if I was right on that vote being to blend in later.
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    Hrm? I was trying to play that off as bad distancing from you.

    And I mean yes, it was very technically to blend in. But that vote was so much less about voting 99L (who was actually very suspicious, suspicious enough to get voted off largely by town even) and more about not voting hailcapital.

    By not voting hailcapital I gave the King (QT) the opportunity to spend a night investigating someone I knew would be town, and thus also knew wouldn't be one of us. Furthermore, since hail was legitimately pretty suspicious, giving a reason for the King reveal themselves on a greencheck was a worthwhile opportunity.

    However, this is also something I'd do as a town member. 99L's suspiciousness was only largely excusable because he is always precisely this suspicious, which isn't a good defense at all. hailcapital being a very valuable and possibly not scum rook, which the King could potentially verify, would be very much ideal. hail's a strong player, and I knew if he was successfully towncleared would be a considerable contribution to town as a whole.

    However, he was also not in a position that was quite so strong that scum couldn't afford to just let him live, nor was he so cleared that it was impossible for a vigilante to shoot him (which actually did happen). It was acceptable for me, in that scum position, to take the easy shot of trying to save him to vote off a towny that was, let's be real, going to be miseliminated for some reason or other eventually.

    I'd also like to point out that the timing on the EoD2 votes makes it really odd to me that you expected me to put a ton of effort into coming up with some kind of reason for voting someone who, by the reason you sussed me should've been even more suspicious. You did say that you felt like 99L didn't really seem to have a firm opinion on what was going on there and was just going with the flow of who was most suspicious at the time. But isn't that just blatant scum opportunism? Just going with the flow of the votes trying to find someone suspicious to vote that isn't you and just happens to be suspicious? That's so sketchy, even in a flashwagon like EoD2 was.

    NinetyNineLies said:
    [X] Vote Mesonoxian

    Ah, screw it. Three-way tie time!
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    QTesseract said:
    [x] Vote Shadell
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    mesonoxian said:
    I can't tell who is the next highest vote total
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    These posts were all in the last 30 minutes of D2 that I think should really be worth at least as much sus as my vote, TBH. Notably also all from townies, for reasons that are (probably) intended to be in town's best interests, but are still pretty suspicious if you're looking at them after the fact. 99L explicitly moving towards a tie with, apparently, the intention of moving towards a tie which almost certainly cannot benefit town. QTesseract coming in with a vote on Shadell which I forget if there was any a priori justification for, but didn't really feel like it had good development. QT had the King escape button available at the time, so it was definitely intentionally done, but I don't think I'd have edged towards this suspicious with the vigilante still alive, personally? mesonoxian calling out the vote numbers like this at the very end of the day instead of focusing on suspicion doesn't, in my opinion, look great.

    So the part where you didn't sus anyone but me really at all? If you were pointing at anyone but me? I'd have called you out on bad distancing. If I weren't scum, I'd have spent most of D3 trying to interrogate you over that, even though I already did a little bit of that to connect myself to you intentionally.

    I think it was a bad read. You were technically right, but the reason doesn't feel good to me.

    Anyways, just as planned!

    Well played, Nemo.
     
    NemoMarx said:
    Oh and extra apologies to @Usili 2.0, who not only sused me early, but identified a bad part of my gameplay that was a tell. I was pretty scared when that happened, too.
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    Thank you. I was so annoyed that I forgot to say anything on the day before I died about you probably being scum, since it just fit. And I admittedly fucked up at least in misunderstanding from talking to Pawn about a misunderstanding of whether one is allowed to do an explicit comparison of one's posts from one game to another, as that would've been like, my entire game strategy as to why you were scum in my thinking.

    Very nice job though on it!
     
    As an addendum, one thing that did like, frustrate me (that I mentioned after I died), was like, the lack of posting and it just really drove me up the wall a bit in trying to get stuff done and organized.
     
    General Post Game Stuff
  • Threadmarks
    • General Post Game

    First off, all my notes on roles/rolls/night actions/etc.

    1. @Shadell Kingside Bishop.
    2. @NinetyNineLies Queenside Knight Pawn. Chat partnered with Nictis. Inherits from OriginalName.
    3. @Shalmoa White Saboteur. Queenside Bishop.
    4. @-Rosen White Saboteur. Kingside Rook Pawn. Chat partnered with Cyricubed. Inherits from hailcapital.
    5. @OriginalName White Saboteur. Queenside Knight.
    6. @Scia Kingside Knight.
    7. @Projject_Delta King's Pawn. Chat Partnered with NemoMarx. Inherits from QTesseract.
    8. @Zaealix Kingside Knight's Pawn. Chat Partnered with hugh_donnetono. Inherits from Scia.
    9. @hailcapital Kingside Rook.
    10. @Cyricubed Queenside Rook Pawn. Chat Partnered with -Rosen. Inherits from Usili 2.0
    11. @hugh_donnetono Kingside Bishop Pawn. Chat Partnered with Zaealix. Inherits from Shadell.
    12. @QTesseract Hail to the King.
    13. @Nictis Queenside Bishop Pawn. Chat Partnered with NinetyNineLies. Inherits from Shalmoa.
    14. @mesonoxian Her Royal Majesty, the Queen.
    15. @NemoMarx White Saboteur. Queen's Pawn. Chat Partnered with Projject_Delta. Inherits from mesonoxian.
    16. @Usili 2.0 Queenside Rook.

    King Roll 12: King is QTesseract.

    Scum Rolls: 15, 5, 3, 4. Scum Team is Nemo, Shalmoa, -Rosen, and OriginalName.

    Pre-rolling for scum game plan: Ori as knight, Shalmoa as Queenside Bishop, Nemo as Queen's Pawn, and -Rosen as Rook's Pawn.

    Reduced list for role randing;

    [*]@Shadell
    [*]@NinetyNineLies
    [*]@Scia
    [*]@Projject_Delta
    [*]@Zaealix
    [*]@hailcapital
    [*]@Cyricubed
    [*]@hugh_donnetono
    [*]@Nictis
    [*]@mesonoxian
    [*]@Usili 2.0

    Queenside Rook: 11= Usili 2.0
    Kingside Rook: 6=Hailcapital.
    Queenside Rook Pawn: 7=Cyricubed.
    Kingside Rook Pawn: -Rosen by selection.
    Queenside Bishop: Shalmoa by selection.
    Kingside Bishop: 1=Shadell
    Queenside Bishop Pawn: 9=Nictis
    Kingside Bishop Pawn: 8=hugh_donnetono
    Queenside Knight: Ori by selection.
    Kingside Knight: 3=Scia
    Queenside Knight Pawn: 2=NinetyNineLies
    Kingside Knight Pawn: 5=Zaealix
    King: QTesseract.
    Queen: 10=Mesonoxian
    King's Pawn: 4=Projject_Delta
    Queen's Pawn: NemoMarx by selection.

    Pawn Pairs:

    Pair 1 3Queenside Bishop Pawn/Nictis and 5Queenside Knight Pawn/NinetyNineLies (the Dynamic Duo)
    Pair 2: 4Kingside Bishop Pawn/Hugh and 6Kingside Knight Pawn/Zaealix (the Terrific Twosome)
    Pair 3:7King's Pawn/Projject_Delta and 8Queen's Pawn/NemoMarx.(the Binary Buddies)
    Pair 4: 1Queenside Rook Pawn/Cyricubed and 2Kingside Rook Pawn/-Rosen. (the Prepared Pair)

    d1:

    Hugh_donnetono is lynched.

    OriginalName is replaced by Squirtodyle.

    n1

    Usili 2.0 Watches NinetyNineLies

    Hailcapital.Watches Nictis

    Shalmoa.Roleblocks NinetyNineLies

    Shadell Tracks Cyricubed

    Squirtodyle (does nothing?)

    Scia Tracks Usili 2.0

    QTesseract Cops Zaelix.

    Mesonoxian.kills -Rosen.

    The Scum Team Kills Usili 2.0 with Shalmoa (rook survives)

    results: ninetyninelies is roleblocked, usili sees shalmoa visits NNL and survives an attack, scia sees usili visit NNL, Shadell sees Cyricubed not visiting, QTesseract sees Zaealix as town, meso kills -rosen.

    d2

    Squirtodyle is replaced by theajl

    NinetyNineLies is lynched.

    n2

    Shadell Roleblocks QTesseract.

    Usili 2.0 Watches Hailcapital.

    Hailcapital Bodyguards Mesonoxian.

    Shalmoa Tracks Cyricubed.

    Theajil Vig Kills Shadell

    Scia Heals Mesonoxian.

    QTesseract cops Hailcapital

    Mesonoxian kills Hailcapital.

    The Scum Team Kills Scia with Theajl.

    d3:

    InterstellarHobo replaces Theajl.

    QTesseract Mayor Reveals

    InterstellarHobo is lynched.

    n3:

    Shalmoa Heals Usili 2.0

    Usili 2.0 Guards QTesseract.

    QTesseract cops Shalmoa.

    Mesonoxian Kills Cyricubed.

    Zaealix Heals Usili 2.0

    The Scum Team Has NemoMarx Faction Strongman Mesonoxian

    D4

    Shalmoa is lynched.

    n4

    QTesseract cops Usili 2.0

    Nictis Tracks QTesseract.

    Nemo Kills Usili 2.0

    Zaealix Kills Nictis

    Usili 2.0 Watches QTesseract.

    d5

    Projject_Delta is lynched.

    n5:

    NemoMarx kills QTesseract, ending the game.

    Chat Links

    Dead chat

    Scum Chat

    Hugh/Zaealix Pawn Chat.

    Cyricubed/-Rosen Pawn Chat

    Nictis/NinetyNineLies Pawn Chat.

    NemoMarx/Projject_Delta Pawn Chat.
     
  • Threadmarks
    • Well, I wish I'd played better. Any suggestions on how I could do better? I was kinda trying to be somewhat suspect Day 1 while generating convo, since I had a non-pawn role but I failed at working my way out of the wagon Day 2 w/o claiming.
     
    TBH, I thought the meta is that VANILLA should be the folks stepping up and doing the social for Town, Power-roles should play more quiet...
    I probably could have done with forwarding conversation about power play more, but handing Scum an easy 'how to ruin Town's night' never did feel wise...I dunno.
     
    Zaealix said:
    TBH, I thought the meta is that VANILLA should be the folks stepping up and doing the social for Town, Power-roles should play more quiet...
    I probably could have done with forwarding conversation about power play more, but handing Scum an easy 'how to ruin Town's night' never did feel wise...I dunno.
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    Honestly, as a general rule or idea Power Roles can try to be more background characters to avoid getting killed... Or they can not. As a rule it works better in significantly larger communities like Mafia Universe where you jump into a game and half to most of the players don't recognize you, or Town of Salem style where everyone is anonymous and things are happening really quickly. Big and active Town Voices(tm) need to be silenced true, but with how small this community is the rule isn't really as relevant.

    Like, if I was to suddenly start only posting 10 times a day whenever I got a super-important role nobody would think I'm just an inactive person. If I did it over on a different community then it'd probably keep me alive longer than if I acted the way I do here. Consistency of one kind or another is usually the key to smaller groups like this. Rosen is consistently doing weird stuff Day 1. Pawn and QT are consistently ignoring any pressure they face. I am consistently loud and questioning people.
     
    But yeah. If you're Vanilla that just means you have no bigger reason to avoid attention. Be loud, be questioning, do whatever. Your main power is still your voice, and if they kill you then it means your voice was working. It's just that the flip side of the coin isn't necessarily the opposite. Try to avoid lying if you can, don't reveal that you're Vanilla, and do what you can to have fun. Of course, that is just my take on things.
     
    hailcapital said:
    Well, I wish I'd played better. Any suggestions on how I could do better? I was kinda trying to be somewhat suspect Day 1 while generating convo, since I had a non-pawn role but I failed at working my way out of the wagon Day 2 w/o claiming.
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    Personally, I don't find much fault with your play and it's more that things didn't work out because of the horrible flow surrounding EoD1 and through most of D2. Town did not manage to find a firm footing until D3 got extended twice, in my opinion.

    So I'm speaking more to crystallize my own thoughts on what I needed to follow here if I was town, but hopefully that's helpful to you too.

    D1: The meme phase lasted far too long. hugh helped perpetuate it, but the form there wasn't peculiar -- rather, it was very much what I'd expect from hugh, someone who's posting really on their own because they want to be a part of the discussion even if they only have very minimal contributions. hugh has a bit of a paranoia and post-count tell, in that he's much more cautious when posting as scum, and I don't think he's overcome that quite yet. Until that post on D1, I was willing to defend him as a towny because not only did I know he was town (as scum), but I also felt like he was playing in a way that was obviously towny for hugh. That post managed to make the wagons at EoD1 very peculiar, and I know I personally would've discarded most of that info until I had a narrative to fit it to, personally. The wagonomics there are absolutely interesting and honestly pretty accurate, but I think it's an unfortunate mechanical hill to die on. The flow around the -Rosen/hugh and -Rosen/hail interactions are the highlights of D1 to me, and also some of the stuff I think -Rosen specifically aimed for based on comments in the scum QT.

    D2: Again, I feel like D2 failed to really solidify in any way until there was absolutely no time to discuss anything any more. I think, with hindsight to guide my thoughts there, that perhaps the correct course of action was to play more like a vanilla there and just put yourself out there in the middle. You had already done some pretty significant solving efforts D1, and you could know from D1 and -Rosen's N1 flip that a scum team member was really gunning for you, but that you weren't the NK target for some reason. There's no harm, then, in trying to draw more scum attention and being willing to really try to take charge of the day discussion. I think higher activity D2 and more of an emphasis on trying to solve from what information you might've had would've been your main way forwards. Again, the part of D2 that really stands out to me is that nothing meaningfully crystallized at all until basically the last hour of the day, and forcing town to take stronger stances earlier probably would've helped town overall.

    I'd say, actually, that the core theme of how this game went was how town did or did not use the time available to them. D1 was spent on memes, D2 was spent without firm stances, D3 lasted forever and actually worked out, and D4 I very intentionally wasted away as much as possible, leading to a D5 where my team's win was just barely brought into the realm of possibility and then fruition. I'd personally say that if there's anything to take away from this game, it's trying to develop a sense of who's wasting time and why.

    I don't know if that's even really possible, but I think it's what I'm getting out of this game overall. And then remembering that preventing people from wasting time is an extremely valuable use of town's energy.
     
    D2 was rough here. I overextended on a lot of very iffy claims to see what people made of it and generate something to get past where we were D1, and mostly the answer was silence outside of Hail who played along, and QT who did seem to slip, but was doing that on purpose for cover, and both of Hail and I ended up getting sussed over the exchanges. I voted hugh, D1 mostly not having a sense of their play and feeling like they were trying to run the clock on town while slipping on some iffy things.

    My biggest misplay was probably roleblocking QT instead of rereading and noticing the king hints, since my back-up plan was a self-heal and that'd have tilted things a great deal toward town.

    I was a bit too haphazard on some of those, and should have pushed a few weird reads a bit harder I think, but the thread also had a lot of players I expected to be active who had IRL issues.
     
    I, have to admit, good concept, didn't really get to do much though. I probably won't be playing Mafia again though, less because of the game, have to admit it was an good game. But more just, its definitely to long for my tastes.

    As for my critiques, I feel like Non-Scum Pawns should be told what they get promoted to, yet when they are voted out or killed it doesn't say. If Scum get to choose specifically what Pawn they are, why can't Non-Scum? But hey, There's probably some big reason that I don't know about for it that someone will point out.
     
    Projject_Delta said:
    There's probably some big reason that I don't know about for it that someone will point out.
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    I can't think of a reason off the top of my head it would outright break the game or anything, but in general mafia is a game of an informed minority vs an uninformed majority. Giving more information to the majority will in general shift things in towns favor. Here that would probably have ramifications to do with claiming, for instance there'd be another role that can be claimed to lock someone in as town. If you'd known you were King's Pawn, you could have claimed that at any point to mechanically clear yourself or force a scum to counterclaim you.
     
    It's already been a recurring problem with the setup that it's too easy for scum to be backed into a corner claim space wise. See the game solving QTesseract was doing in the end game. If town could just know at all times exactly which roles had backups in play, and claim things like King's Pawn, it'd become practically impossible.
     
    Terrabrand said:
    It's already been a recurring problem with the setup that it's too easy for scum to be backed into a corner claim space wise. See the game solving QTesseract was doing in the end game. If town could just know at all times exactly which roles had backups in play, and claim things like King's Pawn, it'd become practically impossible.
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    How would Town "KNOW" which roles had back up in play? As I suggested, the only person who would know for sure, is the Pawn who got the role. As it wouldn't reveal it on death.

    If I'm not picking up what your throwing down, mind elaborating for me?
     
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