Remove ads

Burden of the Emerald Empire (A Legend of the Five Rings Tale)

Reader mode
Paneki... I'm quite certain that he'd deploy his not inconsiderable talents to the art of ensuring that the Empire survives the coming storm. On the other hand, I have a suspicion that he might also be deploying those talents to bringing down some of his enemies in court. I suspect that the Lion in particular are doing a little too well for his taste. On the other hand... well, I really do want to try to drag the Scorpion (and the Mantis) up from "enemy" to "friend", and in order to do that, we have to start holding out the olive branch at *some* point.

Hida Otoya seems much better in a "wizened advisor" role on the general staff than as the direct commander.

...actually? Yeah. Just looking at the cards, Paneki keeps popping up with titles like "Defender of the Empire" and "Hero", and all of his Clan Champion incarnations actually have a decent personal honor. I don't think we're going to *get* a better shot at trying to rebuild our relationship with the Scorpion.

Also, if we are doing this... well, the current Scorpion rating is *25* (also, the lowest Clan Rating we have). It'd be good to drag that up a bit before the festivities begin, I'm thinking.

[x] Bayushi Paneki
[x] Kyuden Bayushi (Scorpion)
 
[X] Yourself
[x] Kyuden Bayushi (Scorpion)

Need to make sure we have everyone's respect.
 
I have to argue a point: Why are we choosing Bayushi Paneki?
This is the man who sent a token force to our army and is now seemingly seeking to gather glory for the scorpion by becoming head of the army. If he wanted to be of use in the first place and be the protector of Rokugan he is claimed to be, why should we reward such behaviour? In fact, it almost seems like blackmail at this point, since he will automatically come with his scorpion-forces to add to the army.
 
Dark as Silver said:
Its not blackmail I don't think we're gettting the Scorps either way.
But I do agree with you. @gman391 how big a deal is Paneki's offer? What exactly does it entail?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Paneki's offer is potentially a big deal. As it stands, he's arguably among the top five tactical commanders in Rokugan, definitely in the top ten. So it's not like he's a bad general. The larger thing about this offer, is that to take this position, he's willing to step down as the Scorpion Champion and Daimyo. Which given his heir is like five at this point, means he's eating a regency he doesn't have to in order to serve. Particularly if you opt not to let him return to the position afterwards which Hisao might well do. Paneki is putting his life and future on the line for this. Is it a gambit to get back in your good graces? Partially. It's a gesture that could backfire spectacularly on him. How big it is, depends a lot on Hisao's mercy and your choice.

Broader, Paneki's calculation that his army wouldn't be useful against golems on the basis that golems don't have supply lines to sabotage or people to assassinate, may well be wrong. It is however, not an unreasonable calculation. So baring a direct order he's not going to use his men for fighting golems.
 
Well you all know I will gladly take the chance to cripple the power of an subordinate in order to increase the Imperial Power.

But in this specific case, so long as Paneki serves well I see no reason why we wouldnt allow him to go back once this is done. Yes I'm sure he will take advantage of it somehow, but so long as our vassals make sure the Empire and the Toturi is gaining something from their games then I'm willing to tolerate them.
 
gman391 said:
Paneki's offer is potentially a big deal. As it stands, he's arguably among the top five tactical commanders in Rokugan, definitely in the top ten. So it's not like he's a bad general. The larger thing about this offer, is that to take this position, he's willing to step down as the Scorpion Champion and Daimyo. Which given his heir is like five at this point, means he's eating a regency he doesn't have to in order to serve. Particularly if you opt not to let him return to the position afterwards which Hisao might well do. Paneki is putting his life and future on the line for this. Is it a gambit to get back in your good graces? Partially. It's a gesture that could backfire spectacularly on him. How big it is, depends a lot on Hisao's mercy and your choice.

Broader, Paneki's calculation that his army wouldn't be useful against golems on the basis that golems don't have supply lines to sabotage or people to assassinate, may well be wrong. It is however, not an unreasonable calculation. So baring a direct order he's not going to use his men for fighting golems.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hmmm... Well he's definetly got a complex scheme in mind if it involves giving up the championship.
 
Quick note: that top 5 almost certainly include a few that we cannot use for the purpose for various reasons (like, say Kisada, and Uncle).

I note a couple of interesting things here.
- If it turns out that they do have supply lines to sabotage, I'd imagine that he could send word back to the Scorpion and get those supply lines quietly sabotaged *anyway*. It's not like the Scorpion are unused to the idea of doing things outside of the regular channels.
- I hadn't realized the degree to which he was putting himself in our hands for this one. Among other things, it means that if he *does* carry out his role in a way we disapprove of, he's basically screwed, and he's deliberately setting it up that way beforehand. It's basically him stating that he absolutely intends to be completely awesome at this, and won't use it to screw us over.

Huh. Thinking about it a bit.... In the process of setting up the armies we indicated that we were willing to execute multiple samurai for being screaming jackasses. It occurs to me that for Paneki there is an entirely valid political strategy in performing his job in a manner beyond reproach, ignoring the idiocies of his subordinates, and then letting them jackass their way to the grave at imperial command. That's a massive oversimplification, I suspect, but we *have* demonstrated a certain level of... thoroughness in our dealings, and impatience with certain Clan prerogatives. Paneki will have noticed this, and the Scorpion are really good at being pragmatic.

Looking back on our previous actions, we've been pretty uncompromising. Our standard behavior when someone backs us into a corner has thus far been to pull the rug out from under them entirely. You've gotten a coalition of the Clans to disagree with our political reforms? We'll get Uncle to threaten to retire to a monastery, thus shattering your coalition. You have a bunch of Matsu threaten to do stupid honorable things if we don't recognize the hereditary right of the line of Nimuro? We'll deploy out brother to the position and reinstate the line of Toturi. By all means, we invite you to explain how his right is lesser. The Great Clans are all squabbling over who runs the legions? Guess we'll just have the *minor* clans run the legions. Yes, we have an execution for you right here if necessary.
 
[x] Bayushi Paneki

Besides being extra thorough with building up the Scorpions is there any reason for spending the winter at Kyuden Bayushi?

Paneki is pragmatic and professional (enough). I'm sure if there's something he needs to say he'll let us know without having to spend too much time together.

Wouldn't shoring up one of the other Clans help?
 
Last edited:
Wang and HuHu said:
[x] Bayushi Paneki

Besides being extra thorough with building up the Scorpions is there any reason for spending the winter at Kyuden Bayushi?

Paneki is pragmatic and professional (enough). I'm sure if there's something he needs to say he'll let us know without having to spend too much time together.

Wouldn't shoring up one of the other Clans help?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Scorpion is the one that needs the most shoring at this point, on a numerical basis. Also, they're Scorpion. They're *sneaky*... and they're at Clan Rating 25. That's down where bad things start to happen. There's a nonzero chance that this offer is actually some devious scheme on Paneki's part that we will regret taking terribly. I don't know *how*, but they're *Scorpion*. Taking Winter Court at his place helps hedge against that by saying "No, really, there is a way for you to come in out of the cold on this one."

For the other picks... Mantis and Crane are at 30, which is also not amazing, but we just hit the Mantis. Crane... maybe. It wouldn't be a terrible choice.

Actually, I can see one possibility for the Devious Scorpion Plot off the top of my head. Paneki stops being Champion for the duration of the fight... which means that he's not responsible for what his regency council does, and the regency council has basically all of its ninja still back at home to play with while everyone else is deployed. Paneki leaves, and behaves impeccably as general, incidentally helping to save Rokugan from the invader. In the meantime, his regency council starts carrying out a series of Highly Political Activities, of the sort that are sure to cause seppuku or execution on discovery, and reasonably likely to be discovered. When they finally do get found out, Paneki gets to come home and purge them, maintaining his own honor by blaming the regents. The question would be... would this be him sacrificing loyal followers to achieve some objective, giving himself an excuse to purge disloyal elements, or managing to finesse the two-for-one where he achieves objectives *and* purges the disloyal?
 
Sirrocco said:
My opinion? No. I think that taking him on as leader of the armies (and backing it up with a Winter Court) is probably worth it. It's just that I'm admitting... well, he is Scorpion, and the Clan Rating is 25. One must bear in mind the possibility that this is some sort of scheme.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Is there even a slight chance that this is not a scheme of sorts? I am not saying that he is going to loose, but that he is going to use this in order to do something which he would not get away with under normal circumstances.
If the answer is that there is no chance that there is not another scheme going, do not choose him, i would say.
 
whydoyoubother said:
Is there even a slight chance that this is not a scheme of sorts? I am not saying that he is going to loose, but that he is going to use this in order to do something which he would not get away with under normal circumstances.
If the answer is that there is no chance that there is not another scheme going, do not choose him, i would say.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Scorpions scheme like they are breathing. I can pretty much guarantee that Paneki is supporting some scheme with his offer. He is probably supporting multiple. There are really two questions. First, are there schemes in the mix we'd actually strongly disapprove of, and second, if so, is the overall effect in total going to be something we'd disapprove of?

My read in this case is that the overall effect (especially if we hedge our bets a bit with the Winter Court) is likely to be at least tolerable, and it's a chance to try to improve our relationship with them - which is going to be pretty important if we ever want to be able to *stop* worrying about Scorpion plots at every turn.

Admittedly, Winter Court does bring up the possibility of our traditional annual assassination attempt, but that almost makes Kyuden Bayushi safer. If the Scorpion make an attempt on our life anywhere else, they might be able to play deniability games with it. If we get attacked while under their care at Kyuden Bayushi, though, it's abject failure to protect us at best.

I mean, it'll also be a lot easier for them to try to pull off. I'm not trying to pretend that it's all sunshine and roses here. Neither of these picks is the safest in the short run. I still think they're worth it.
 
Last edited:
I mean it's not like Paneki was in love with your aunt or anything and has an emotional tie to the title that she gave him or anything. :whistle:

But keep in mind that the other options have costs too.
 
Sirrocco said:
Admittedly, Winter Court does bring up the possibility of our traditional annual assassination attempt, but that almost makes Kyuden Bayushi safer. If the Scorpion make an attempt on our life anywhere else, they might be able to play deniability games with it. If we get attacked while under their care at Kyuden Bayushi, though, it's abject failure to protect us at best.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That only accounts for any intentional plans though. The Scorpions do have a lot of landmines hidden within their ranks unfortunately.

But you're probably right about taking extra effort to shore up Hisao's relationship with them.
 
Last edited:
Eh... just give Paneki what he wants, then tell him to watch our back. Everything will work out fine.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top