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Belated Battleships (KanColle) [REHOST]

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rdfox said:
Not entirely certain on that; a stretched Burke (i.e., a Flight III Burke) wouldn't really provide any more capability against Abyssals than the existing ones, and the CA's armored hull would hold up better against them than a Burke that's only hardened against .50-caliber fire, and even then only in the vitals.


Assuming they guide at all on the Abyssals. The one advantage a gun would have over an AShM is that it's unguided, so a modern 8"/55 like the Mark 71 Major Caliber Lightweight Gun would presumably be as effective as a heavy cruiser's 8" guns were in WW2, since it's literally the same gun in a newer, lightweight mount. (The problem being that you'd need to put a hell of a lot of them on the ship to get a big enough broadside for effective fire.) After the MCLWG's original platform, the Strike Cruiser of the 1970s, was cancelled by Gerry Ford, the Spruance class DDs were built with structural foundations and strengthening members meant to allow them to be retrofitted with it replacing the forward 5" gun, though the upgrade was never carried out. At least as recently as 1991, there was a design study done that showed it could also be grafted onto the DDG-51 Flight I, replacing the Burkes' 5" gun, albeit with a number of significant drawbacks.

And technically, we have just recently built three new gun-fighting ships, in the form of the Zumwalts. They have no real AShM capability, and only self-defensive SAM capability; their primary weapons system is the 155mm Advanced Gun System mounts. Granted, those are mainly meant for shore bombardment use, but they do remain an example of a modern gun destroyer.

My guess is that there's a good chance that war-production Burkes will be equipped with either MCLWG or AGS mounts in place of their 5" guns (and possibly one of their VLS mountings, in a configuration designed to allow it to be swapped out again for the VLS cells in the future), simply to provide them with a bit more punch against the Abyssals, particularly since the US Navy has no super-heavy AShMs or any way to graft them onto our warships even if we buy them from the Russians (who would almost certainly be hoarding production for themselves, given how they'd doubtless be going through them like toilet paper). It's not ideal, but at least it'd mean they could hit with something that could actually damage a cruiser instead of just a five-incher--remember, cruisers were specifically designed to be protected against destroyer guns, meaning that they were armored against five-inch fire...
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Hopefully, in universe, there would already be people gearing up for big gun construction. Either private companies who want to have a weapon system for government contract, or the government itself, since apparently gunfire is what consistently sinks abyssals. Guided missiles apparently have all the accuracy of rocket volleys or trying to bomb ships with heavy bombers. I would think the government would concentrate on cruisers and destroyers, gun heavy armament except for ddgs that seem to be good for AA work, light on electronics that get messed up by abyssal influences. After there are no more abyssals these ships would become razorblades, unless a couple are kept as memorials to the war. Not good long term investments, but neither were a lot of the ships, equipment, and aircraft built for WWII. Wars are always costly, and the debts last for generations. And that is just the financial part.
 
rdfox said:
My guess is that there's a good chance that war-production Burkes will be equipped with either MCLWG or AGS mounts in place of their 5" guns (and possibly one of their VLS mountings, in a configuration designed to allow it to be swapped out again for the VLS cells in the future), simply to provide them with a bit more punch against the Abyssals, particularly since the US Navy has no super-heavy AShMs or any way to graft them onto our warships even if we buy them from the Russians (who would almost certainly be hoarding production for themselves, given how they'd doubtless be going through them like toilet paper). It's not ideal, but at least it'd mean they could hit with something that could actually damage a cruiser instead of just a five-incher--remember, cruisers were specifically designed to be protected against destroyer guns, meaning that they were armored against five-inch fire...
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Fun fact, the USN is currently in the process of scrapping the majority of our standing doctrine. What this means in the long term is that surface ships are going to get a shit load more potent. Short term, we have a few nasty little toys in the pipe that could be very useful against an all up surface threat.

For example, BAE has already proposed a modification to their AGS that would allow it to be mounted on a Burke

And with the new hypervelocity shells, I'd say we have a few options.
 
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Breakaway25 said:
Fun fact, the USN is currently in the process of scrapping the majority of our standing doctrine. What this means in the long term is that surface ships are going to get a shit load more potent. Short term, we have a few nasty little toys in the pipe that could be very useful against an all up surface threat.

For example, BAE has already proposed a modification to their AGS that would allow it to be mounted on a Burke

And with the new hypervelocity shells, I'd say we have a few options.
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The problem HERE is that the leveling effect will make the best new stuff only as good (in terms of range, damage, accuracy, etc...) as the best WWII stuff, so ironically innovation isn't actually helpful.
 
theJMPer said:
You want super-heavy AShMs like Granits.
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Considering the Abyssal War, it's likely that the timetables for things like the BrahMos-II and Zircon were accelerated considerably. Even if it involves degrading their targeting and navigation to 'heading only' to go around the 'can't aim at Abyssals' problem, 4000-6000lb at Mach 7+ is bound to ruin anything's day without giving enough time to react.

And/or give Jersey mild PTSD.
 
maes said:
Considering the Abyssal War, it's likely that the timetables for things like the BrahMos-II and Zircon were accelerated considerably. Even if it involves degrading their targeting and navigation to 'heading only' to go around the 'can't aim at Abyssals' problem, 4000-6000lb at Mach 7+ is bound to ruin anything's day without giving enough time to react.

And/or give Jersey mild PTSD.
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Unfortunately they'd have to be built somewhere else, since most of the Soviet manufacturing power was in Eastern Europe. Russia's good at building good prototypes, but has problems going to mass production.
 
Glitchrr36 said:
Unfortunately they'd have to be built somewhere else, since most of the Soviet manufacturing power was in Eastern Europe. Russia's good at building good prototypes, but has problems going to mass production.
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Russia builds four different rockets, three explode. Okay, lets go with that remaining design, then build four variants of it, and which ever does not explode, we do it again and again and again. Russian thinking at its finest.
 
Nixeu said:
Re: No shipgirls at Pearl:

They may simply have felt that, if anything that could take down Mo hit Pearl, whatever destroyers or cruisers they could spare from their fleets would just be additional casualties. Ones they likely couldn't afford. Throw in the fact that Pearl probably has fairly regular convoys passing through, which could potentially join in if they were nearby, and it may not have made sense to directly base any additional ships there.

When it comes down to it, most of the shipgirls currently around are having to work hard just to keep Japan and/or England afloat by escorting food convoys, and many others are stuck protecting mainland ports. If Hawaii was mostly evacuated of civilians, as some have said in the thread, then it's priority is likely lower than a lot of other locations. And Mo alone was a huge chunk of the combined Japanese-US fleet. They may just have decided they didn't have any more forces to spare.
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Except Pearl would function as a far better Base to not only play interdiction on anything trying to hit the mainland US, with the added benefit of being the perfect staging point for hitting Abyssal held islands.
 
Harry Leferts said:
and Sky's.
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...I mean, people on Discord keep saying my stuff feels like an entirely different story...



(admittedly, when I do write Abyssals instead of bullying the Nyancruiser Tiger, I write them as I would in Indy. Sans Demons. My Abyssals/Sirens are different in pretty key ways, though I hold to the main stories rules in this case)
 
Kongo refit as a Kii:
Kongo: "Teitoku! I have more guns! And that means more stamina! And that means even more BURNING LOVE!" *Flying fast-battleship-cuddle-ball-leap onto Goto's lap* ~Chu-chu...chu-chu...Teitokuuuu~!"
Goto: Urk...
:D
 
Something Wisky might wanna hear:
SBY is having its second season being remade currently, with 10 episodes already subbed. That last 4 just dropped today.
 
BigBadBen said:
Russia builds four different rockets, three explode. Okay, lets go with that remaining design, then build four variants of it, and which ever does not explode, we do it again and again and again. Russian thinking at its finest.
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So...survival of the fittest design?
Spectre said:
Except Pearl would function as a far better Base to not only play interdiction on anything trying to hit the mainland US, with the added benefit of being the perfect staging point for hitting Abyssal held islands.
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Assuming, of course, their goal was interdiction, that would make sense. With how hard it can be to track Abyssal movements, it seems likely that the simpler solution would be to let the Abyssals come to them, by escorting convoys and seeing what bites. Has the added benefit of keeping Japan fed, too.

Keep in mind that we have a bird's eye view, as it were, of the situation. The people on the ground don't know what we know about Abyssals, their motivations, how any of the magic works, and a wide variety of other things. And people on the ground seem to have been pretty much scrambling for anything they could do to improve their prospects, which implies some serious problems, before Jersey showed up. When you're struggling just to keep afloat, you can miss sh*t.
 
New here. Found this story on fanfic, and searched to track it down after a while of no updates. Anyone know what happened to ObsessedNuker, in charge of updating to FF.Net?
 
I have mostly stayed out of the discussion about building new warships, but I suppose I can weigh in with a couple things.

First. To make armored ships again, heavy cruisers and heavier, would indeed need industries that we no longer have. But they are industries that we understand.

Second. In the modern world, it takes years to design a car, or truck, or ship, because there are thousands of regulations impacting everything from mining operations to paint chip disposal.

If the US were threatened by Abyssals as depicted in this story, several dramatic changes would happen overnight.

First. Regulations and environmental considerations would immediately be reduced to near-zero. Who the fuck cares about that endangered rat or the proper forms in triplicate when your fellow citizens are being eaten by demons.

Second. When faced with human-eating demons, the economy ceases to be capitalism, and switches to a a military economy. If you are not making staples that are required for the lives of people, like food, clothing, or houses, your factory is going to either start making something for the war, or it will be shut down so your employees can build a factory that will help the war effort.

Third. Unemployment and retirement no longer exist for the able-bodied. If you have no skills, you go to a grunt labor camp or simple factory job. If you have skills, you go to work and use them. Failure to work if you are able-bodied means failure to get food rations. Being handicapped doesn't mean you get a pass. Being wheelchair bound doesn't stop you from working a desk job.

One real issue that must be addressed is facilities to build new, steel-hulled ships. The Abyssals can raid coastal facilities, so that drastically reduced options for shipbuilding. But it does not make things impossible.

New yards would be built far inland. While the first generations of ships are being constructed there, canals would be build from the yards to the coast. Think Panama Canal. There are a vast number of places where the land is suitable for vast canal projects leading inland. Coastal communities that might have once resisted such construction projects no longer exist, because either the Abyssals ate them, or the citizens moved inland to avoid being eaten.

In short, if the situation changes from business-as-usual in the US to a real existential threat, I strongly suspect that we could have new destroyers commissioning within a year of starting to dig new yards. Cruisers in 1.5 years, and heavy armor ships in 3 years.

The threat of the Japanese in WW2 is mild compared to the threat of the Abyssals in this fic. The fever pitch of a war economy to resist Abyssals will make the efforts of the historical WW2 war economy look pathetic.

Seriously. The world is in extremis. The US and other industrial nations are going to be building their war industries insanely fast.
 
Farmerbob1 said:
*snip*
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Given how all of their current ships and tech aren't useful, and they don't have the same information as we do, the odds are fairly good that most countries, once given the option, will stay the hell out of it. As they currently are. The only countries 'in extremis' are those who decided to resist the demons, currently.

The Navy would also have reason to believe that what made Mo and Whisky so effective was the souls of the ships. After all, their gear didn't seem to work for modern ships, if it was transfered, as I recall. Even we in the thread aren't clear on if new ships based on old models would work or not. So the US, and everyone but Japan and England, would probably mostly be spending their time coping with what happened, and trying to summon their own ships. Probably while reinforcing their mainland bases as best they could, and evacuating civilians from islands.

This also isn't really a war you can win by going to a 'war footing', as the wreckage The Abyssals made of the fleets of the world illustrated eloquently. Without know what to spend your production on, why shut existing factories down, when you don't know what new ones to staff (assuming the skills even carry over, which they may not), or start rationing resources that will likely just end up sitting around in a warehouse, piling up, and doing nothing? The only industry I see that maybe being a useful thing to do would be the farming industry, and maybe some amount of food rationing.
 
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Farmerbob1 said:
New yards would be built far inland. While the first generations of ships are being constructed there, canals would be build from the yards to the coast. Think Panama Canal. There are a vast number of places where the land is suitable for vast canal projects leading inland. Coastal communities that might have once resisted such construction projects no longer exist, because either the Abyssals ate them, or the citizens moved inland to avoid being eaten.
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The Freedom class LCS is built in Wisconsin on the Great Lakes. At 3,500 tons, it is practically a heavy WWII destroyer already. Just rework the layout for MOAR DAKKA and Torps...

You could also probably build diesel/electric subs on the Mississippi...after all, the USS Razorback got towed to Little Rock, AR...
 
Speaking of the Great Lakes, what's happening with HMCS Haida? Is she still a museum ship?
 
Harry Leferts said:
You know, I absolutely love how you declare people pointing out issues, such as teleporting Abyssal troopers, and how it does not make sense considering the story up to now and how it affects everything as being "Salt".
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Don't get me wrong, you are pointing out perfectly legitimate issues (and I actually do agree with you to a fair extent), but the way you are doing it is why people are saying you're being salty. It's not just what you say, but how you say it.
 
baofengyu said:
The Freedom class LCS is built in Wisconsin on the Great Lakes. At 3,500 tons, it is practically a heavy WWII destroyer already. Just rework the layout for MOAR DAKKA and Torps...

You could also probably build diesel/electric subs on the Mississippi...after all, the USS Razorback got towed to Little Rock, AR...
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In terms of armament and equivalent role, however, LCS more closely matches up to a WW2 DE equivalent, particularly if you run ASW LCS. Modern-wise, LCS is basically a big corvette with cross ocean capability; it displaces as much as it does because everyone else's corvettes are short ranged local ships, while LCS needs to be able to cross the Atlantic and Pacific oceans. So if the US spammed LCS I could see the leveling effect making them about as effective as DEs.

Reworking the layout for more dakka basically means you have to redesign the ship tho, and the Bofors 57mm, while a decent punchy gun for doing corvette things, isn't really going to cut it except in AA mode. ASuW LCS mounts the two 30mm Bushmaster IIs, but the effectiveness of those wrt leveling effect is debatable. You can turn LCS into a missile boat fairly easily, that said - you can put AShM canisters between the gun and the superstructure, and if you say fuckit and don't carry helos, the flight deck has a lot of real estate for missile canisters (which is what they did for the NSM integration tests). Problem, again, is the leveling effect acting on modern tech.
 
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