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Belated Battleships (KanColle) [REHOST]

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PAGDTenno said:
Okay, but 7734's point wasn't calling bullshit on a pen - it was calling bullshit on a pen on the first hit. ERA is an absolute perfect defense against anything another tank is going to be shooting.
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Not exactly. ERA that is meant to beat kinetic energy projectiles needs to have larger, thicker plates explosive layering in order to break the projectile. Think the kind of ERA you see on T90s, Kontakt-5.
 
theJMPer said:
It's not that the Abrams' armor is terrible. It's that the long 88 is a really really good AT-gun. On par with the Soviet 122.
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Yeah, the 8,8cm/71 is really really good, but here's the thing- it's only really really good when it's shooting the good ammo- the PzGr 40/43 rounds. Gee whiz, will you look at what piece of war materiel was never in long supply? PzGr 40/43 rounds. Or, for that matter, the other AP round for the gun, PzGr 39/43.

You know what they had? PzGr 39. Guess what else fires PzGr 39? Tiger I and the 8,8cm/56. Gee whiz, JMPer, what happens when you shoot a KwK 36 round out of a KwK 43? You get KwK 36 levels of performance. The Leveling Effect is, for good and ill, a normalizer. Without prior mention that these were, say, Personal Guard of Hitler SS-tanks, well, they get normalized down to stock. And stock Konigstiger probably wouldn't beat the Abrams under leveling effect.
 
7734 said:
Yeah, the 8,8cm/71 is really really good, but here's the thing- it's only really really good when it's shooting the good ammo- the PzGr 40/43 rounds. Gee whiz, will you look at what piece of war materiel was never in long supply? PzGr 40/43 rounds. Or, for that matter, the other AP round for the gun, PzGr 39/43.

You know what they had? PzGr 39. Guess what else fires PzGr 39? Tiger I and the 8,8cm/56. Gee whiz, JMPer, what happens when you shoot a KwK 36 round out of a KwK 43? You get KwK 36 levels of performance. The Leveling Effect is, for good and ill, a normalizer. Without prior mention that these were, say, Personal Guard of Hitler SS-tanks, well, they get normalized down to stock. And stock Konigstiger probably wouldn't beat the Abrams under leveling effect.
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The Princess had access to vast numbers of late-war Jets, and her underlings used SS ranks. Getting good ammo isn't hard for her.
 
theJMPer said:
The Princess had access to vast numbers of late-war Jets, and her underlings used SS ranks. Getting good ammo isn't hard for her.
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So as long as she keeps to a general theme (in this case Nazi) what the original vehicles etc were equipped with doesn't matter that much.

They're still presumably resource limited in ways, however like the Shipgirls who can generate ammo, fuel and spare parts by eating lots of food, they don't work the same way conventional force replenishments are done.
theJMPer said:
Hmm... he's right, isn't he?
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maes said:
"Too wrong for Silent Hill" messed up? "Nurgle would be proud" levels of fucked up?
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I'll take the inside of a Dark Mechanicus assembly line with Slaanesh influences (machines giving birth etc) on a Daemon world for 500 Alex.
 
theJMPer said:
The Princess had access to vast numbers of late-war Jets, and her underlings used SS ranks. Getting good ammo isn't hard for her.
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So you're saying the Formosa Island Princess managed to get the Kriegsmarine, Luftwaffe, and SS Heer to play nice together? Excuse me, I can hear the sound of thousands of dead Argentinians Nazis spinning in their graves from here. Besides, even assuming she's got a gate to whatever fresh hell the Abyssals come from, there's only so much late-war materiel that can come pouring out before a reality chance bounces like a squeaky rubber ball and getting the 501st Heavy Panzer, Me 262 A-1a fighters and enough fighter basing to run constant sortes is two impossibilities more than my suspension of disbelief is going to take.

After all, as @jwolfe_beta put it, this is a minor Princess. This isn't Falkans Boogaloo; Guadalcanal Round Whatever, or Tarranto.
 
7734 said:
So you're saying the Formosa Island Princess managed to get the Kriegsmarine, Luftwaffe, and SS Heer to play nice together? Excuse me, I can hear the sound of thousands of dead Argentinians Nazis spinning in their graves from here. Besides, even assuming she's got a gate to whatever fresh hell the Abyssals come from, there's only so much late-war materiel that can come pouring out before a reality chance bounces like a squeaky rubber ball and getting the 501st Heavy Panzer, Me 262 A-1a fighters and enough fighter basing to run constant sortes is two impossibilities more than my suspension of disbelief is going to take.

After all, as @jwolfe_beta put it, this is a minor Princess. This isn't Falkans Boogaloo; Guadalcanal Round Whatever, or Tarranto.
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I was under the impression there wasn't a KM/LW/Heer divide, and instead it was all a single, Nazi-styled armed force under her direct command
 
Right. Clearly, arguing is going to get nowhere. I'm just going to say I side with 7734, and say the what is believable, the how strains credulity at best.

Still like this fic, but I can't say I like the chapter as executed.
 
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7734 said:
So you're saying the Formosa Island Princess managed to get the Kriegsmarine, Luftwaffe, and SS Heer to play nice together? Excuse me, I can hear the sound of thousands of dead Argentinians Nazis spinning in their graves from here. Besides, even assuming she's got a gate to whatever fresh hell the Abyssals come from, there's only so much late-war materiel that can come pouring out before a reality chance bounces like a squeaky rubber ball and getting the 501st Heavy Panzer, Me 262 A-1a fighters and enough fighter basing to run constant sortes is two impossibilities more than my suspension of disbelief is going to take.
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Remember that this isn't summoning the spirits of dead nazis and their war machines to do battle (at least as far as we can tell).

This is more blobs of bloodlust/rage/burn/maim/slaughter/rape/burn/pillage poured into various 'molds'. At the core they are all Abyssals but this particular Princess (and presumably some of her colleagues) are simply using the whole Nazi thing as a theme.

Said theme shapes what they look like, how they might act and some of the tactics they use. My guess they Abyssals don't care so much about the technical specifics (though those come as a side effect) and more about the emotions related to X group.

Which is why in the Atlantic you have the RCN playing whack-a-mole against demonic Rudeltaktiks. And over in the Pacific you probably have the 'evil Gaijin barbarian hordes' with the Abyssal Battlecruiser Saratoga already seen (and I bet there's an Evil Enterprise/Grey Ghost commanding a fleet somewhere). Same for IJN expies most likely as there was something akin to an upgraded Nagato if memory serves.
 
Not gonna lie, when the Tiger was revealed I felt my Warthunder trigger get pressed hard as I have been there myself, worse because I play American and so have been in that precise circumstance.
 
Star_Trekker said:
I was under the impression there wasn't a KM/LW/Heer divide, and instead it was all a single, Nazi-styled armed force under her direct command
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Asking Nazis to work together is, to be blunt, about as effective as asking cats to work together with dogs and snakes. Ain't happening. There are numerous anecdotes about units shittalking Fallenschmirchjager and getting denied air cover, Kriegsmarine vessels getting sank by bombers on patrol (Z3 comes to mind first) and SS and Heer units faffing around not supporting each other.

The real reason the Nazis lost wasn't that they were drowned in Russians or American Tactical Genius, no, the dumb bastards just couldn't work together long enough to handle their issues!

jwolfe_beta said:
Remember that this isn't summoning the spirits of dead nazis and their war machines to do battle (at least as far as we can tell).
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See, that's one theory. My personal theory is similar, but there's always something left of the people there. You can tell a lot about a man by how he builds his tools, and a lot more about a country in what they choose as their tools. Even if it's only reverse absorption, the equipment remembers, and acts, like it did in the hands of when the users were alive. English ships will still have Shitty Ship Problems, and still alternate between gutsy maneuvers and hopeless last stands. American armor will still howl and yell, closing up until it can reach out and punch through the enemy. German planes will still be slicing in from the sun, dying once they burn their smash in swooping assaults. Polish bunkers will still fire, weeks after they should have been silenced. Russian shells and men will stand and be eliminated, every minute making the vengeance greater.

It's all about the people- and what the equipment would say back if they were here.
 
7734 said:
there's only so much late-war materiel that can come pouring out before a reality chance bounces like a squeaky rubber ball and getting the 501st Heavy Panzer, Me 262 A-1a fighters and enough fighter basing to run constant sortes is two impossibilities more than my suspension of disbelief is going to take.
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Bit late to complain about the jets, mate.
7734 said:
See, that's one theory. My personal theory is similar, but there's always something left of the people there. You can tell a lot about a man by how he builds his tools, and a lot more about a country in what they choose as their tools. Even if it's only reverse absorption, the equipment remembers, and acts, like it did in the hands of when the users were alive. English ships will still have Shitty Ship Problems, and still alternate between gutsy maneuvers and hopeless last stands. American armor will still howl and yell, closing up until it can reach out and punch through the enemy. German planes will still be slicing in from the sun, dying once they burn their smash in swooping assaults. Polish bunkers will still fire, weeks after they should have been silenced. Russian shells and men will stand and be eliminated, every minute making the vengeance greater.

It's all about the people- and what the equipment would say back if they were here.
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I think you're close in the description, but off in the mechanism that causes it.
 
theJMPer said:
It's not that the Abrams' armor is terrible. It's that the long 88 is a really really good AT-gun. On par with the Soviet 122.
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Furthermore, while the Abrams is "a medium," it's entirely reasonable that the kind of medium it is would be, oh, like the handful of M26 Pershings armed with 90mm guns that the US got into the European Theater at the very end. Those were some good medium tanks and would laugh off a lot of WWII-era AT fire... they were good, they were effective, they just weren't immune.

Also, I suspect ERA blocks are about as reliable against Abyssals as laser guided bombs are- because, like laser guidance, it was Not A Thing during World War Two.

7734 said:
So you're saying the Formosa Island Princess managed to get the Kriegsmarine, Luftwaffe, and SS Heer to play nice together? Excuse me, I can hear the sound of thousands of dead Argentinians Nazis spinning in their graves from here.
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I'm with TheJMPer on this one, because I think that's the point.

Magical Unsparkling Abyssal Bullshit is more powerful than interservice rivalry.

It's more powerful than World War Two German interservice rivalry.

It makes no goddamn sense. Nothing can possibly be that powerful, and yet... it is.

It's the anti-Dess.

Internalize this, and you will know the correct level of fear and loathing towards the Abyssal foe.
 
Always Late said:
Bit late to complain about the jets, mate.
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Oh, that's because I was too busy handling the "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! FRITZ X SPAM INBOUND! WE ALL GONNA DIE!!!" on SB. Jesus fuck, can you not open a few Wikipedia pages at the same time? The only thing that could carry that Wunderwaffe was absent, and there's no way in hell they could jurry-rig a Schwalbe or Blitz to carry one and get it to hit the ground, let alone a ship.
 
I'm getting Alien vibes from that "maternity ward" scene. Very creepy.

Also Abyssals being generally all kinds of unfair is nothing new, let's be honest here.
 
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