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Belated Battleships (KanColle) [REHOST]

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Lt Darkhound said:
I have a question... When shipgirls are on the water, they sort of blur between Ship and girl, to the point of where the ship sort of appears around them, and untrained people will see the ship before seeing the girl, yes? Is the steel hull physical, to the point of someone could put their hand on the hull of one of the girls, or would they instead touch the girl?
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I'm pretty sure how it works here in Belabatt is this: On the water, girls are ships. On the land, girls are girls (but still weigh literal tons, Jersey maxing out a 10t truck's suspension for example).
 
Lt Darkhound said:
I have a question... When shipgirls are on the water, they sort of blur between Ship and girl, to the point of where the ship sort of appears around them, and untrained people will see the ship before seeing the girl, yes? Is the steel hull physical, to the point of someone could put their hand on the hull of one of the girls, or would they instead touch the girl?
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Yes.

In alserious though, it's author interpretation, but there is a fine line between good scenes, and just making battles confusing due to the vagueness of the characters.
 
Lt Darkhound said:
I have a question... When shipgirls are on the water, they sort of blur between Ship and girl, to the point of where the ship sort of appears around them, and untrained people will see the ship before seeing the girl, yes? Is the steel hull physical, to the point of someone could put their hand on the hull of one of the girls, or would they instead touch the girl?
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It depends on the author. Traditionally, though, it seems that fics gear towards more girl than ship. And, if there is a hull involved, it's mostly metaphysical. The Kanmusu can 'see' it, but it's not always actually in existence.

EDIT: Double Ninja! What does it mean?
Edit 2: bloody shorthand for smilies.
 
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So, when the girls are on the water, the ship is physical. Would someone be able to board the "phantom hull" of the shipgirl, or is that just not possible?
 
Someone did (in effect) exactly that in the case of Texas when she self-summoned. But in that case, her steel hull had been physically right there the entire time, so she may be a special case.

In general, TheJMPer tends to seem to have the "ship" aspect dominate on the water, although the "girl" aspect is still present.
 
Right okay. All this nonsense about omakes has solidified my resolve to finish Belated Missile Cruisers for @theJMPer .

Any delays can be laid at the feet of @Icywinter .

*throws Winter under the bus*
 
One little thing regarding modern destroyers- the 5" gun on the Arleigh Burke has an insane rate of fire. Of course it can't really take a hit worth anything, but then again, armor was never really a priority for DDs. From my armchair admiral perspective, I'd say one Arleigh Burke is equal to one Abyssal DD any day. Arleigh Burkes are hugely outnumbered by Abyssal DDs, but id say their rapid-fire gun makes them effective as screening units.
 
I don't think that's ever been an issue. The issue is taking Burkes against cruisers and BBs.
 
Ben Sellers said:
One little thing regarding modern destroyers- the 5" gun on the Arleigh Burke has an insane rate of fire. Of course it can't really take a hit worth anything, but then again, armor was never really a priority for DDs. From my armchair admiral perspective, I'd say one Arleigh Burke is equal to one Abyssal DD any day. Arleigh Burkes are hugely outnumbered by Abyssal DDs, but id say their rapid-fire gun makes them effective as screening units.
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Also, I suspect the leveling effect applies to gunfire. The Burke is a big destroyer with one rapid-fire gun, up against enemy destroyers with several slower-firing guns. By the standards of today, the Burke is a good unarmored surface combatant but not an amazing one. And advantages in fire control and so on won't mean a thing.

I'd certainly be willing to court a surface action against an Abyssal destroyer with a Burke, but I wouldn't do so with any particular certainty of winning.
 
Burkes count as really really good destroyers. But even the best tin can is still a tin can in the face of something like a panzerschiff or true battleship.
 
@Ben Sellers @Simon_Jester the Mark 45 gun has a sustained automatic rate of fire between 15-20 rounds depending on which mod (IIRC Mod 1-3 do 15 rounds, Mod 4 does 20). This isn't really that much higher than the WW2 5"/38 gun. In a gun duel, Burke VS Fletcher, the Fletcher has five guns to the Burke's one; on the other hand the Burke has the AN/SPQ-9 radar for the gun, and also has a side 25mm Bushmaster that carries ammo with enough pen to fuck up the gun mounts, torpedo tubes and the bridge. You're basically putting throw weight up against accurate, targeted fire from gyro-stabilised laser rangefinder radar gunnery computer FCS master race.

theJMPer said:
Burkes count as really really good destroyers. But even the best tin can is still a tin can in the face of something like a panzerschiff or true battleship.
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To add in to this, it bears noting that while this is true as per the story rules and the purposes of the story, when we compare a Burke to WW2 ships we see that the Burke basically amalgamates the roles of DE, DD, CL, CA and even arguably BB into one hull.

But it's JMPer's story and he and I have argued this before and so rather than rehash it I'll get back to Belated Missile Cruisers. ;)
 
The biggest problem with the Burke's gun, is that it has no AP capability, and even if it did, it's still just a 5" gun.
We never gave them a bigger gun because we never needed one. Modern doctrine is based around carriers, and has become rather top heavy in that regard. Burkes are very good ships, but they were designed to operate as key members of a fleet, centered around a carrier. They have very few teeth for dealing with surface ships, and most of those can be negated by the levelling effect.

Hell, we still don't really have a true AsHM as the LRASM has been delayed... AGAIN. And as good as SM-2's and SM-6's are for taking out small boats, they are SAMs, and are not designed for any penetration at all.
 
Granted that 5in/54 Caliber or 5in/62 Caliber Mark 45 Gun, depending on the ship will tear the ever living hell out something like a Guissano class Light Cruiser because they have no armor, hell I am certain that even modern chain guns and rotary guns of the 25mm and 30mm variety could probably penetrate that thing. But the biggest problem is like @Breakaway25 said, they have no AP capability. Now, if it's possible, don't quote me on this, but if it's possible, you could take the turrets off of M109s and the like and slap them on warships, that would mean that you will give warships some AP power, mainly because you can fire HEAT rounds, problem is the hole would be rather small. However the Germans did slap a Pzh2000 Turret onto one of their frigates for testing, the biggest problem actually wasn't getting the damn thing on the ship because of weight but was because of the size and of course making it Saltwater proof to help with corison.
 
*sighs tiredly*

tl;dr putting an arty turret on a ship gets you increased shore bombardment, but being an arty gun it's fairly subpar at everything else a naval gun is supposed to do.

There is a reason why five inch is so common: for naval guns it is the sweet spot between rste of fire, accuraccy, range and firepower.

I'll go and find the posts discussing this from SB's War Room. You oughta go there, @Thorthemighty - you just might learn something.

Also 155mm HEAT does not exist. Why the hell would you fire heat out of a 155mm artillery gun?

Edit: ah, found the posts on MONARC being discussed on SB.
 
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Whiskey Golf said:
Also 155mm HEAT does not exist.
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It actually does, the M712 Copperhead is 155mm cannon launched, fin-stabilized, terminally laser guided Anti-Tank Artillery shell, it has a shaped charge loaded with 14.75 pounds of Composition B. It's designed to kill hardened targets like tanks, enemy SPGs, or other High Value Targets. It may be fired from a variety of different artillery pieces including the M114, M109, M198, M777, and CAESAR artillery pieces. The round has a minimum range of 3,000 meters and a maximum range of 16,000 meters. It saw use during Operation: Desert Storm and Operation Iraqi Freedom. So, yes, it actually does exist.
 
Thor? You don't need to copy/paste the Wikipedia articles. And we don't need to know which vehicles can fire which shell. Your efforts to appear well-informed on this sort of thing are backfiring horribly.
 
Of possible interest to various folks: In honor of the US Navy's birthday, have the photos from my recent visit to the National Museum of the United States Navy at the Washington Navy Yard!

US Navy Museum
 
MissingJimbo said:
Thor? You don't need to copy/paste the Wikipedia articles. And we don't need to know which vehicles can fire which shell. Your efforts to appear well-informed on this sort of thing are backfiring horribly.
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Sorry about that, but, if you look at the post that I quoted. I sort of felt like I had to point out that yes 155mm HEAT rounds do exist.

But in other words. The USN is now 241 years old, but man, has the United States Navy seen a lot in those 241 years.
 
I can name exactly once that the US went and put a land based artillery gun on a boat/ship and that was the 105mm M49 on the river monitors during the Vietnam War. And there was a reason for that and that was it was mainly used as fire support and not against other boats.
 
@Thorthemighty perhaps you have forgotten what @theJMPer said some weeks ago:

theJMPer said:
Please do not discuss modern weapons versus Abyssals unless you are me, someone who's written a canonized Omake, someone who puts lots of thought and effort into their posts (Wiskey or RDfox), or someone with actual experience with the thing in question (Breakaway25.)
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theJMPer said:
As long as it's not painful military-wank like Thor's doing, you keep the universe rules in mind, and you don't keep going after someone who knows better (Me, Iron, Sky, Wiskey, Jimbo, De3ta, Winter) tells you you're misunderstanding the universe rules, and don't keep going after someone asks you to stop, you're cool.
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Everybody else, let's all dial it the fuck down.
 
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