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Army of Liberty: a Fantasy Revolutionary Warfare Quest

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Oh shit, another thing you could do @Photomajig is, once we get really deeply into the weeds of battles later in the Quest, have multi-day Napoleonic style battles, with the victory and defeat conditions being narrower, and the enemy General being more willing to withdraw... and where a defeat on a certain day doesn't mean a defeat on the battle as a whole, making each "day" of the battle shorter but also there being more days.

So, like, day 1 of the battle you seize key high-ground and see off enemy attacks and skirmishers and so on, and so on Day 2 you start from this advantageous position, but they've brought up fresh reserves and shifted around units that have been chewed up back and all of that, and you have different objections and so on, and then day 3 either you've been pushed back or the goal is to try to push them to the breaking point or etc, etc.

Like, we're not there yet, but it'd be a way to simulate the fact that a lot of these battles took days, and have a bunch of shorter, sharper conflicts.
 
It does make sense for confrontations between larger armies to be framed as multiple 'battles' - yeah, everything Laurent just said, beat me to it. Even many one day battles can be seen as a bunch of discrete engagements (the attack of this corps here, the attack of this or that division there) that fit pretty well with the scale we're on gameplay-wise.
 
It also means for the later game there can be a kind of Grand Tactical level of things to whet our appetite in the late-Quest.

Like, if we wind up being the People's Consul For Life (totally not a monarch) and battling all of Not-Europe, then we'd be making decisions like, "How are we going to unseat this large enemy army fighting for the 16th Coalition."

And so maybe we can select objections/make a plan, so, like, let's say we're facing an enemy, and our plan is.

"Day 1, attack this flank and roll it up, make him think that this is where the big main blow will come. Day 2, attack the OTHER flank with overwhelming force and collapse his army. Day 3, finish them off."

That would then be a different set of battlefields and a different set of objectives for each. And let's say that Day 1 goes well, and Day 2 we hit most of the objectives we aimed for... but not all of them, that'd make Day 3 harder, but not impossible.
 
The Laurent said:
Oh shit, another thing you could do @Photomajig is, once we get really deeply into the weeds of battles later in the Quest, have multi-day Napoleonic style battles, with the victory and defeat conditions being narrower, and the enemy General being more willing to withdraw... and where a defeat on a certain day doesn't mean a defeat on the battle as a whole, making each "day" of the battle shorter but also there being more days.

So, like, day 1 of the battle you seize key high-ground and see off enemy attacks and skirmishers and so on, and so on Day 2 you start from this advantageous position, but they've brought up fresh reserves and shifted around units that have been chewed up back and all of that, and you have different objections and so on, and then day 3 either you've been pushed back or the goal is to try to push them to the breaking point or etc, etc.

Like, we're not there yet, but it'd be a way to simulate the fact that a lot of these battles took days, and have a bunch of shorter, sharper conflicts.
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I mean, it also makes sense command wise. The initial tutorial battle was delegated command, so I imagine we would probably not be commanding 70 thousand units on a charge at once. You would probably delegate flanks towards certain commanders, keep troops in reserve and so on. We can just diagetically declare that the upper command limit of Raka in-universe is whatever our map system is reasonably capable of handling, with troops beyond that being delegated. Also adds the option of having interactions of dealing with subordinate commanders, which is fun.
 
Not to jinx it, but if we do win out, this will have been an excellent little campaign.

On the 1st of Beltiale we were given our orders, on the 8th war was declared, on the 14th after a march through mud, we have the small but decisive Battle of Brutet in which nine-thousand Arnish Infantry, fifteen hundred cavalry, and four artillery units faced twelve-thousand infantry, a thousand cavalry, and three artillery.

At the end of the battle, sixteen hundred men under Raka Durand were casualties, some dead and some not. Twenty-six hundred of the enemy were casualties, most dead or wounded... and six-thousand enemy troops were captured, along with the enemy General.

On the sixteenth, Raka Durand was ready to chase the enemy and did so, crossing the river unopposed and taking the town with negotiation, leaving the shattered and exhausted remnants of the enemy army to flee.

And now, on the 23rd or so, she faces the enemy once more. Eight thousand infantry, twenty-five hundred cavalry, and four units of artillery against ten thousand infantry, two-thousand cavalry, and six units of artillery.

If she wins this current contest, then in the span of ten days she could potentially have defeated two different enemy armies that each individually outnumbered her, while seizing a major regional city without a fight and having done so with (one hopes) the main body of her forces intact.

In total across those nine days, she'd have faced twenty-two thousand infantry, three thousand cavalry, and nine units of artillery.

Despite the small scale of the conflict, relatively, if she actually pulls this off it's going to be the kind of thing that historians take note of.
 
whos spotting the halflings in the west.

The sightlines are really bad, like mentioned in the update the enemy has so much cover that we actually lose an artillery duel in this position im pretty sure only getting saved by our morale
 
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NSchwerte said:
whos spotting the halflings in the west
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Don't think they are spotted, we are just generally not informed anymore if the enemy sees us. Based on current sight abilities, they couldn't have been spotted by any enemy unit either (elves only 3 tiles away, which the Halfs would also spot).
 
Red Rationalist said:
Don't think they are spotted, we are just generally not informed anymore if the enemy sees us. Based on current sight abilities, they couldn't have been spotted by any enemy unit either (elves only 3 tiles away, which the Halfs would also spot).
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as i understand it we are told if we know that weve been spotted.

We have infantry in the center called out as hidden which is why im confused that we think the halfllings arent
 
NSchwerte said:
as i understand it we are told if we know that weve been spotted.

We have infantry in the center called out as hidden which is why im confused that we think the halfllings arent
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No, hidden just shows they used the hiding order twice (+2 concealment as a status). The tutorial at Basly also showed none of our units being spotted, despite our units being clearly visible to them.
Photomajig said:
Spotted Units

12th Elv Har spotted!
17th Elv Har spotted!
24th Hum spotted!
88th Elv spotted!
52nd Hum spotted!
30th Elv Art spotted!
2nd Nym Grd spotted!
1st Nym Grd spotted!
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Surprised that the Nornish are still on 4 Morale after the whole report of the Army of the West being destroyed and having to quickly integrate demoralized troops from it. Would've thought that'd decrease Morale given that IIRC one of the big reasons they were on Morale 4 to begin with was news of the Emigre army's defeat and the capture of the Nornish Legions sent alongside it.

Then again, maybe their Morale did go down, and Von Trotha used his March Actions to restore it.
 
Chimeraguard said:
Surprised that the Nornish are still on 4 Morale after the whole report of the Army of the West being destroyed and having to quickly integrate demoralized troops from it. Would've thought that'd decrease Morale given that IIRC one of the big reasons they were on Morale 4 to begin with was news of the Emigre army's defeat and the capture of the Nornish Legions sent alongside it.

Then again, maybe their Morale did go down, and Von Trotha used his March Actions to restore it.
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Also, were the troops integrated? Maybe I missed it, but when I was looking at the unit listing, I didn't see any common units that were in both armies, so I think that whatever troops are left are still behind recovering.
 
The Laurent said:
Also, were the troops integrated? Maybe I missed it, but when I was looking at the unit listing, I didn't see any common units that were in both armies, so I think that whatever troops are left are still behind recovering.
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There's a couple. The Markwald Nymph Rangers were present at Brutet, and the Pro. (which I think means "Provisional") Elven Artillery seems to have been formed from conglomerating the two groups of Elven artillery that survived Brutet (but who destroyed their guns at Daurstein and might have lost a few men to desertion, hence the need to merge instead of keeping the old unit designation.) That's how we know what their CO traits are already.

The rest were presumably deemed not worth the effort.
 
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Okay, a confused question, @Red Rationalist

-[] 148th Hum: 2*Move (NW, NE), Brace

-[] 45th Elv: 2* Move (NE,NW), Brace

If the Rangers are where you say they are, wouldn't going NE, then NW mean running into them/occupying their space?

E: Also, why do you indicate three move here, but only move twice?

-[] 42nd Elves: 3 Move (2 NW)

Shouldn't you do two moves and then Brace or something?

E2: Oh wait, I see, you included both the starting point and the ending point. So I got the movements mixed up because I was starting at where the ending point is.
 
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Red Rationalist said:
So, a still mostly draft that outlines what I want to do with my main position. As the name says, I would like to take a single step forward to hammer Trotha on any movement, something that can be done without exposing our units to artillery fire on his end (just 7 tiles away) or revealing this position. This centres around preserving our ambush advantage, while punishing Trotha for any attempts to step closer.

Draft Plan Stepping Forward
-[] Visualization
-[] Infantry
-[]200th Hobs: Hide, Ready Move NE (If infantry line distance stays the same or is reduced), Ready Brace (If enemies are seen)
-[]251st Hobs: Hide, Ready Move NE (If infantry line distance stays the same or is reduced), Ready Brace (If enemies are seen)
-[] 148th Hum: 2*Move (NW, NE), Brace
-[] 72nd Hum: 2*Move (2*NW), Brace
-[] 45th Elv: 2* Move (NE,NW), Brace
-[] 42nd Elves: 3 Move (2 NW)
-[] 16th Half Pfd: 2*Move (NW), Ready Fire (any infantry moving into medium range)
-[] 19th Half Pfd: Move (NW), 2*Ready Fire (any infantry moving into medium range)
-[] 28th Half Pfd: 3*Move (NE, 2 NW)
-[] Cavalry
-[] Guillory Hussars: Withdraw north of our hills, charge and disengage unprepared enemy infantry emerging on the forest edge
-[] 13th Hob Lanc: Ready Action Charge (IF any non-squared unit moves into 500m range of you), Ready action melee (IF prev trigger was true), Ready action Move towards orginal position (If you are in melee)
-[] 55th Elv Hsr: Ready Action Move NE (IF any unit moves within 500m sightline of 5th H. Hob. Artillery), Ready Action Charge (If any non-squared unit moves into 300m range of you), Ready action move towards last position before charge (IF you are in melee)
-[] 108th Elv Hsr: Ready Action Charge (If any non-squared unit moves into 500m range of you), Ready action melee (IF prev. is true), Ready action Move towards orginal position (If you are in melee)
-[] Artillery
-[] 5th h. Hob. Art.: Move NE, Fire on 31st Dwa (Ambush, 73% for at least 50 casualties, avg. +5 stress and 30% for rout)
-[] 31st Elv Art: Set Up (NE), Ready Fire [E,NW, any enemy moving into medium range]
-[] 10th Hum Art: Ready Fire [E,NW, any non-artillery enemy moving into medium range], Ready Move ((If 200th Hobs steps forward)) NW
-[] 84th Hum Art: Ready Fire [E,NW, any non-artillery enemy moving into medium range], Ready Move NW ((If 200th Hobs steps forward))


Plan file, if you're interested. This one is error free. [double-checked orders, much more easy this time. Will update the picture fairly soon-
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I'd prefer if you listed Ready Actions that are supposed to be one package (for example, Charge-then-Move back, such as the 13th Hob Lan's here) as one Order, not separately. The Ready Actions for the 13th here could be one Ready Action (Charge, Melee, Move) instead of three separate ones. The current formatting is a bit tough to parse sometimes, as it's easily mistaken for separate Ready Actions with different triggers.

If that's intentional and you want all three Ready Actions to trigger separately but conditionally on the success of the other ones, I'm afraid such conditional chaining is not allowed. Separate Ready Actions are meant to allow for IF/ELSE alternative courses of action, not IF-IF-IF nested conditions. You have to commit to your course of action.

Like, right now I'd read those Orders as: Charge if any non-Squared enemy comes within 500m OR Melee if non-Squared enemy comes within 500m (which indicates staying put at your original position and attacking someone adjacent) OR Move back (to where you already are) if you end up in melee. All considered equally and separately.

The Laurent said:
Though to be fair, I'm pretty sure with a larger map we might be able to get up to, like, 30k-ish on each side without the system breaking or needing THAT much retooling? Or so on? Which isn't huge, but is sorta getting to something more appreciable.
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The Laurent said:
Oh shit, another thing you could do @Photomajig is, once we get really deeply into the weeds of battles later in the Quest, have multi-day Napoleonic style battles, with the victory and defeat conditions being narrower, and the enemy General being more willing to withdraw... and where a defeat on a certain day doesn't mean a defeat on the battle as a whole, making each "day" of the battle shorter but also there being more days.

So, like, day 1 of the battle you seize key high-ground and see off enemy attacks and skirmishers and so on, and so on Day 2 you start from this advantageous position, but they've brought up fresh reserves and shifted around units that have been chewed up back and all of that, and you have different objections and so on, and then day 3 either you've been pushed back or the goal is to try to push them to the breaking point or etc, etc.

Like, we're not there yet, but it'd be a way to simulate the fact that a lot of these battles took days, and have a bunch of shorter, sharper conflicts.
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We'll see how this shapes us, but that would be nice!

Red Rationalist said:
Don't think they are spotted, we are just generally not informed anymore if the enemy sees us. Based on current sight abilities, they couldn't have been spotted by any enemy unit either (elves only 3 tiles away, which the Halfs would also spot).
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NSchwerte said:
as i understand it we are told if we know that weve been spotted.

We have infantry in the center called out as hidden which is why im confused that we think the halfllings arent
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My apologies, I forgot to highlight this change. As RR points out, you are no longer told if an Unit is spotted or not.
 
The Laurent said:
E2: Oh wait, I see, you included both the starting point and the ending point. So I got the movements mixed up because I was starting at where the ending point is.
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Yeah, fair enough. People have different conventions when visualizing I can include movement arrows in the next picture, if that one helps. I think I found a pattern that isn't too visually disruptive.
Photomajig said:
I'd prefer if you listed Ready Actions that are supposed to be one package (for example, Charge-then-Move back, such as the 13th Hob Lan's here) as one Order, not separately. The Ready Actions for the 13th here could be one Ready Action (Charge, Melee, Move) instead of three separate ones. The current formatting is a bit tough to parse sometimes, as it's easily mistaken for separate Ready Actions with different triggers.

If that's intentional and you want all three Ready Actions to trigger separately but conditionally on the success of the other ones, I'm afraid such conditional chaining is not allowed. Separate Ready Actions are meant to allow for IF/ELSE alternative courses of action, not IF-IF-IF nested conditions. You have to commit to your course of action.
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I see. I will bundle them as one set of ready orders if applicable, just made a habit of listening each order separately for visual clarity. I think I misinterpreted the description of ready orders to solely prevent the IF ELSE actions we sometimes used in the old system (IF Enemy moves 3*shoot, ELSE 3*Move in the current one), rather than mandating one trigger for the whole set of ready orders. Thank you very much for the clarification, I will rework the ready actions.
 
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I'm thinking about what I would do as von Trotha and just for everyone who hasn't realised, the center plain is pretty much guaranteed to be saturated by 5+ medium ranger artillery ready fire orders
 
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NSchwerte said:
I'm thinking about what I would do as von Trotha and just for everyone who hasn't realised, the center plain is pretty much guaranteed to be saturated by 5+ medium ranger artillery heavy fire order
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Yeah, we should definitely make sure our units do not end our turn in Medium Range of his artillery. The problem is, where has he set up his cannons? Any ideas on how far their range extends currently?
 
According to the stats his Field artillery's medium range is 700m which means if his artillery was directly behind his infantry line it would be falling just short of the 55th
 
Pinniped said:
Yeah, we should definitely make sure our units do not end our turn in Medium Range of his artillery. The problem is, where has he set up his cannons? Any ideas on how far their range extends currently?
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So, I don't necessarily think all his guns will be put in the centre. Some are likely going on the northern hill range, likely to provide fire support against Rotholz proper. With this being said, we can currently conclude his guns are at least 9 tiles behind his infantry line, since he couldn't have put those in front of it. So yeah, with 900m there is the option of taking one more step forward until we get a true stand-off. I can put up an illustration of the maximum range on the map shortly.


Visualization of the enemy range, with the yellow representing the maximum range assuming artillery units just behind his infantry. Please note that the grey icons represent our starting positions, with black ones showing how we would potentially move in my plan.
He may or may not be have his artillery just behind his infantry, there is an argument for a 2 tile line to make marching and assaults easier. He still has 4 infantry to onto the front, so the artillery being just behind his infantry would represent a rather awkward road block there. And he might also devote certain artillery units onto the hill for fire support against Rotholz, which would only become active on T3 at the earliest.
 
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Pinniped said:
Yeah, we should definitely make sure our units do not end our turn in Medium Range of his artillery. The problem is, where has he set up his cannons? Any ideas on how far their range extends currently?
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No, what I mean is that any unit that walks into medium range will get annihilated, he has ready fires set up.

It's not about ending the turn in range, it's about never getting into range
 
NSchwerte said:
No, what I mean is that any unit that walks into medium range will get annihilated, he has ready fires set up.

It's not about ending the turn in range, it's about never getting into range
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I mean, he couldn't have ready fires set up just behind his infantry. His artillery is 5 tiles away from the deployment zone, meaning they could be at this position with 5 ap on moving and 1 on set up (6 = 2 turns of AP), assuming he put them in front of his deployment zone rather than slightly behind. I'm not what exact point you're making here either, I don't think anyone proposes standing in medium range of his battery.
 
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