- Pronouns
- He/Him
Dangit, it was supposed to both be 312th E, 41st Hob E. For some reason I never realized I had the wrong direction set up for the Hobs.
Army of Liberty: a Fantasy Revolutionary Warfare Quest
- Thread starter Photomajig
- Start date
- Fantasy Historic
- Pronouns
- They/Them
But yeah, it does feel like, all things considered, our Human Infantry charging their Human infantry is more dangerous than our Hobgoblins. What if the enemy Braces... or, alternatively, what if they pull back one space so that we can no longer reach them by charge?
Still, we do have to gamble sometime, though even if the odds are long I do almost think that it might be better to fire artillery at the enemy Human Infantry, unless the odds really are so low that we break the Halfling Cohesion.
Still, we do have to gamble sometime, though even if the odds are long I do almost think that it might be better to fire artillery at the enemy Human Infantry, unless the odds really are so low that we break the Halfling Cohesion.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Pondering this a bit before I write a plan.
The obvious move is one charge on each of the visible enemies, three tiles due east for both if my understanding of the charge rules is correct and we have to move "into" the target tile. Even if they brace, the halflings will get slaughtered and are basically guaranteed to rout. The evenly matched human Infantry are less of a gimme, but this still ends with their last coherent unit stuck in house to house fighting, flanked by an only slightly bloodied human unit and a pack of sicko mode hobgoblins.
This is the obvious result. The enemy knows this. So what if they do something different?
Well, they could withdraw E. That'd keep the units safe, but just delay the inevitable and leave the halflings in a technically worse position while ceding cover to the 81st. I find it more likely that the halflings are going to brace and get sacrificed as the very small speedbump that the Royalists consider them to be, since they'll at least physically block the 81st from an easy flank on the village.
What's more interesting is the Human regulars and their CO's Rapid trait. They don't have to withdraw - they can use their free move to step back E or NE, and then Ready Fire their muskets point blank into the tile the 312th is charging into. Quite the nasty trap, and one I enabled by suggesting we hang back at maximum charge range to avoid musket fire BEFORE charging. It's entirely possible that the tutorial commanders won't make use of this, but it's absolutely what I would do to maximize enemy casualties and minimize my own at this point, when my team is on the backfoot and I'm playing a delaying game until my elites regroup.
I'm going to use this possibility to actually argue not to charge with the 312th, and instead move E, E. Worst case scenario, the enemy does not move, does not brace, and instead Ready Fires E, which will do less damage than Bracing would against a charge, and they'd only do if they anticipated us anticipating a Rapid+Ready Fire trap. Likely case, no one attacks anyone as the 312th moves and Hum Inf 1 either braces or Rapids and has an invalid Ready Fire. I suppose they could also Rapid and then Ready Fire 200, but that drops their Hit rate down to "lol" so I'm not going to worry about it.
Oh, or the could countercharge us. No idea if that's in the rules. I'll be happy to find out.
Anyway, all that's justification to argue for:
-[] 312th Hum: MOVE E, E
-[] 41st Hob: CHARGE E, E, E
And that is the less wacky thing I'm going to argue for, because personally, I think we should move the artillery. I know we're in this perfect sniper's nest right now, and moving artillery moots it for two turns. However...every enemy unit except one is out of range of the artillery to the East, and they've got the entire east half of the village to dig in and attrit our units down. Consider the current firing range of the artillery:
It covers the field just fine, but half of the village is in the 6-12 -50 zone, which is the -70 zone if they're actually standing in a village tile.
However, if we were to shift the artillery to the leftmost village tile, starting on Round 6, this would be our range:
(I screwed up and it should go two more tiles North and two more tiles South, but that doesn't matter to my point)
The medium range will then cover the entire village, with the fields on the west side in particular turned into an open air horse-sausage factory, while we can still fire on any straggling Elv Cav 1s who try to make a break for the road. This will give us complete control of the field and eliminate any chance of the enemy holding the village center and bleeding us out on subsequent turns. However, it does indeed remove our artillery shot for this and next turn, so I understand if it's a bit of a problematic pitch. Nonetheless, after all this reasoning, I'm going to propose the following plan.
[X] Plan: Swift Blade and Slow Knife
-[X] 310th Hum: RESTING
-[X] 312th Hum: MOVE E, E
-[X] 41st Hob: CHARGE E, E, E
-[X] 81st Elv: RESTING
-[X] 5th Hob. H.Art.: MOVE NE, E, E
-[X] Hobgoblin Militia: "Continue retreating along the road and fortify in BEAUME HOUSE, adjacent to our own reserves."
The obvious move is one charge on each of the visible enemies, three tiles due east for both if my understanding of the charge rules is correct and we have to move "into" the target tile. Even if they brace, the halflings will get slaughtered and are basically guaranteed to rout. The evenly matched human Infantry are less of a gimme, but this still ends with their last coherent unit stuck in house to house fighting, flanked by an only slightly bloodied human unit and a pack of sicko mode hobgoblins.
This is the obvious result. The enemy knows this. So what if they do something different?
Well, they could withdraw E. That'd keep the units safe, but just delay the inevitable and leave the halflings in a technically worse position while ceding cover to the 81st. I find it more likely that the halflings are going to brace and get sacrificed as the very small speedbump that the Royalists consider them to be, since they'll at least physically block the 81st from an easy flank on the village.
What's more interesting is the Human regulars and their CO's Rapid trait. They don't have to withdraw - they can use their free move to step back E or NE, and then Ready Fire their muskets point blank into the tile the 312th is charging into. Quite the nasty trap, and one I enabled by suggesting we hang back at maximum charge range to avoid musket fire BEFORE charging. It's entirely possible that the tutorial commanders won't make use of this, but it's absolutely what I would do to maximize enemy casualties and minimize my own at this point, when my team is on the backfoot and I'm playing a delaying game until my elites regroup.
I'm going to use this possibility to actually argue not to charge with the 312th, and instead move E, E. Worst case scenario, the enemy does not move, does not brace, and instead Ready Fires E, which will do less damage than Bracing would against a charge, and they'd only do if they anticipated us anticipating a Rapid+Ready Fire trap. Likely case, no one attacks anyone as the 312th moves and Hum Inf 1 either braces or Rapids and has an invalid Ready Fire. I suppose they could also Rapid and then Ready Fire 200, but that drops their Hit rate down to "lol" so I'm not going to worry about it.
Oh, or the could countercharge us. No idea if that's in the rules. I'll be happy to find out.
Anyway, all that's justification to argue for:
-[] 312th Hum: MOVE E, E
-[] 41st Hob: CHARGE E, E, E
And that is the less wacky thing I'm going to argue for, because personally, I think we should move the artillery. I know we're in this perfect sniper's nest right now, and moving artillery moots it for two turns. However...every enemy unit except one is out of range of the artillery to the East, and they've got the entire east half of the village to dig in and attrit our units down. Consider the current firing range of the artillery:
It covers the field just fine, but half of the village is in the 6-12 -50 zone, which is the -70 zone if they're actually standing in a village tile.
However, if we were to shift the artillery to the leftmost village tile, starting on Round 6, this would be our range:
(I screwed up and it should go two more tiles North and two more tiles South, but that doesn't matter to my point)
The medium range will then cover the entire village, with the fields on the west side in particular turned into an open air horse-sausage factory, while we can still fire on any straggling Elv Cav 1s who try to make a break for the road. This will give us complete control of the field and eliminate any chance of the enemy holding the village center and bleeding us out on subsequent turns. However, it does indeed remove our artillery shot for this and next turn, so I understand if it's a bit of a problematic pitch. Nonetheless, after all this reasoning, I'm going to propose the following plan.
[X] Plan: Swift Blade and Slow Knife
-[X] 310th Hum: RESTING
-[X] 312th Hum: MOVE E, E
-[X] 41st Hob: CHARGE E, E, E
-[X] 81st Elv: RESTING
-[X] 5th Hob. H.Art.: MOVE NE, E, E
-[X] Hobgoblin Militia: "Continue retreating along the road and fortify in BEAUME HOUSE, adjacent to our own reserves."
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
Pondering this a bit before I write a plan.
The obvious move is one charge on each of the visible enemies, three tiles due east for both if my understanding of the charge rules is correct and we have to move "into" the target tile. Even if they brace, the halflings will get slaughtered and are basically guaranteed to rout. The evenly matched human Infantry are less of a gimme, but this still ends with their last coherent unit stuck in house to house fighting, flanked by an only slightly bloodied human unit and a pack of sicko mode hobgoblins.
This is the obvious result. The enemy knows this. So what if they do something different?
Well, they could withdraw E. That'd keep the units safe, but just delay the inevitable and leave the halflings in a technically worse position while ceding cover to the 81st. I find it more likely that the halflings are going to brace and get sacrificed as the very small speedbump that the Royalists consider them to be, since they'll at least physically block the 81st from an easy flank on the village.
What's more interesting is the Human regulars and their CO's Rapid trait. They don't have to withdraw - they can use their free move to step back E or NE, and then Ready Fire their muskets point blank into the tile the 312th is charging into. Quite the nasty trap, and one I enabled by suggesting we hang back at maximum charge range to avoid musket fire BEFORE charging. It's entirely possible that the tutorial commanders won't make use of this, but it's absolutely what I would do to maximize enemy casualties and minimize my own at this point, when my team is on the backfoot and I'm playing a delaying game until my elites regroup.
I'm going to use this possibility to actually argue not to charge with the 312th, and instead move E, E. Worst case scenario, the enemy does not move, does not brace, and instead Ready Fires E, which will do less damage than Bracing would against a charge, and they'd only do if they anticipated us anticipating a Rapid+Ready Fire trap. Likely case, no one attacks anyone as the 312th moves and Hum Inf 1 either braces or Rapids and has an invalid Ready Fire. I suppose they could also Rapid and then Ready Fire 200, but that drops their Hit rate down to "lol" so I'm not going to worry about it.
Oh, or the could countercharge us. No idea if that's in the rules. I'll be happy to find out.
Anyway, all that's justification to argue for:
-[] 312th Hum: MOVE E, E
-[] 41st Hob: CHARGE E, E, E
And that is the less wacky thing I'm going to argue for, because personally, I think we should move the artillery. I know we're in this perfect sniper's nest right now, and moving artillery moots it for two turns. However...every enemy unit except one is out of range of the artillery to the East, and they've got the entire east half of the village to dig in and attrit our units down. Consider the current firing range of the artillery:
It covers the field just fine, but half of the village is in the 6-12 -50 zone, which is the -70 zone if they're actually standing in a village tile.
However, if we were to shift the artillery to the leftmost village tile, starting on Round 6, this would be our range:
(I screwed up and it should go two more tiles North and two more tiles South, but that doesn't matter to my point)
The medium range will then cover the entire village, with the fields on the west side in particular turned into an open air horse-sausage factory, while we can still fire on any straggling Elv Cav 1s who try to make a break for the road. This will give us complete control of the field and eliminate any chance of the enemy holding the village center and bleeding us out on subsequent turns. However, it does indeed remove our artillery shot for this and next turn, so I understand if it's a bit of a problematic pitch. Nonetheless, after all this reasoning, I'm going to propose the following plan.
[X] Plan: Swift Blade and Slow Knife
-[X] 310th Hum: RESTING
-[X] 312th Hum: MOVE E, E
-[X] 41st Hob: CHARGE E, E, E
-[X] 81st Elv: RESTING
-[X] 5th Hob. H.Art.: MOVE NE, E, E
-[X] Hobgoblin Militia: "Continue retreating along the road and fortify in BEAUME HOUSE, adjacent to our own reserves."
Okay, I have some questions. First, aren't the Hobgoblin Militia stuck Resting? If they can keep on Routing/retreating to Beaume house, then that works. Second, if we wanted to throw off a Ready Fire, couldn't we do NE, E for the 312th Hum?
This would still put the 312th in a village square with all the defenses therein, and still within range for all sorts of things even if they withdraw, but it'd also potentially fuck with any overconfident Hum Infantry 1, maybe?
Not completely sure, it's a nitpick, trying to work through this choice.
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- She/They
Hm...I don't have a strong reason for this turn, but if we're moving the artillery up, I have a very bad feeling about leaving the road open next turn, in case Elv Cav 2 gets desperate and someone needs to block the path through town.
GildedSergeant
Tarnished Gold and Rattling Bones
- Location
- Over There
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- They/Them
Good plan, I especially agree with moving the artillery. They aren't doing us any favors sitting out range, and mobility is one of their huge streof ngths
[X] Plan: Swift Blade and Slow Knife
[X] Plan: Swift Blade and Slow Knife
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Right now, they can only go 2 hexes east.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
That is a point, though I don't think it really likely after what they just took. But there is a point about the road being left open, even if I think it might be slightly more beneficial in other circumstances.
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- He/Him
Veritably. Heavens forbid we make a liar out of the Marquis.
[X] Plan: Swift Blade and Slow Knife
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- They/Them
Incidentally, I will note one downside of your plan, though it's a downside of attempts to influence the battle with artillery in general, and that's that the woods are blocking line of sight, and so in theory the Halfling militia could be back there ready to try to continue the fight where the Human Infantry 1 was during Round 2.
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- He/Him
This is where I feel extra frustrated about screwing up the 41st's move direction, because had they gone east, the 41st would be in position to charge the Halfling Militia directly into the woods and thus provide us the sight lines beyond it.
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- She/They
I started second guessing and theory crafting myself earlier, and noted two possibilities for faking out the enemy by letting them assume well charge and then not. The first was leaving the Infantry adjacent to the western village tile but that cedes a bunch of momentum for no reason and leaves the Infantry out of cover, so no, not our style I think.
A more interesting possibility is maneuvering the Infantry east by northeast, specifically E, E, NE for the 312th and NE, E, E for the 81st. Effectively, this would trade a rout of Half Mil 2 for somewhat better positioning to spot recovering enemies and start bayoneting people next turn. I'm...not sure it's worth it though. Routing an enemy unit forces it out of the fight for at least two turns, and while halflings with flintlocks are trash for damage (give them rifles you racist morons), they still take up space on the board we don't want to let them have. So yeah still thinking mixed charge and move orders.
A more interesting possibility is maneuvering the Infantry east by northeast, specifically E, E, NE for the 312th and NE, E, E for the 81st. Effectively, this would trade a rout of Half Mil 2 for somewhat better positioning to spot recovering enemies and start bayoneting people next turn. I'm...not sure it's worth it though. Routing an enemy unit forces it out of the fight for at least two turns, and while halflings with flintlocks are trash for damage (give them rifles you racist morons), they still take up space on the board we don't want to let them have. So yeah still thinking mixed charge and move orders.
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- They/Them
We definitely want to get the Halfling Militia 3 out of the fight, because the Militia 1 is likely to show up again the turn after this coming one, if they're going to rally and return to the fray. So we want to keep the odds amenable, since at the moment the technically-active forces we have are (just as technically) outnumbered, since the 81st and 310th will be out of the fight for another round or two at minimum.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
When does the free movement action from rapid happen?
If they countercharge us while we move east they would go one east, we move one east and they attack us then. wether we charge or move only influences the result in that we get a charging attack too.
I do not think that I agree with resting the 312th this turn for multiple reasons:
1. They are supposed to cover our southern Flank against cavalry and it is unlikely that the difference between 2 and 4 cohesion is going to be the big difference maker in that conflict. If the cavalry charges the 310th will get routed either way.
2. By moving them forward they can give us additional information to the south by opening up more Lines of Sight. If we rest next turn this manouver will have the same outcome except we have more information.
3. We may be able to catch the enemy cavalry resting and slaughter them again with a charge
I do not understand why we are telling the Hob Militia to move towards the manor tho. By the time they will have moved there, rested and moved back to the battle it will already be over.
Additional observations:
As Halflings, half mil2 could be in any of the village units and not be seen by us
@Photomajig could we tell a unit to charge into an empty space if we expect a unit to be there?
Why can we see half mil 3? Shouldn't they have 2+1 concealment and be hidden to our humans and hobs?
I agree with moving the artillery forward but keep in mind that the woods do block LOS!
If they countercharge us while we move east they would go one east, we move one east and they attack us then. wether we charge or move only influences the result in that we get a charging attack too.
I do not think that I agree with resting the 312th this turn for multiple reasons:
1. They are supposed to cover our southern Flank against cavalry and it is unlikely that the difference between 2 and 4 cohesion is going to be the big difference maker in that conflict. If the cavalry charges the 310th will get routed either way.
2. By moving them forward they can give us additional information to the south by opening up more Lines of Sight. If we rest next turn this manouver will have the same outcome except we have more information.
3. We may be able to catch the enemy cavalry resting and slaughter them again with a charge
I do not understand why we are telling the Hob Militia to move towards the manor tho. By the time they will have moved there, rested and moved back to the battle it will already be over.
Additional observations:
As Halflings, half mil2 could be in any of the village units and not be seen by us
@Photomajig could we tell a unit to charge into an empty space if we expect a unit to be there?
Why can we see half mil 3? Shouldn't they have 2+1 concealment and be hidden to our humans and hobs?
I agree with moving the artillery forward but keep in mind that the woods do block LOS!
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- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
[]
-[X] 310th Hum: MOVE E, SE, E
-[X] 312th Hum: MOVE NE,E, E
-[X] 41st Hob: CHARGE E, E, E
-[X] 81st Elv: RESTING
-[X] 5th Hob. H.Art.: MOVE NE, E, E
-[X] Hobgoblin Militia: "Retreat into the cover of the forest and regroup "
My proposed changes to the plan:
Moving the 310th forward allows them to give us more sight lines and could even allow them to stop the enemy cav from reforming if we are very lucky and even if we aren't, they can still just rest after their movement.
Moving the 312th northeast flanks the enemy humans from the northeast, but more importantly, it opens up sightlines behind the woodsline that hides the Southeast of the map.
If the militia reforms in the forest theyll be closer to the action if they rejoin
-[X] 310th Hum: MOVE E, SE, E
-[X] 312th Hum: MOVE NE,E, E
-[X] 41st Hob: CHARGE E, E, E
-[X] 81st Elv: RESTING
-[X] 5th Hob. H.Art.: MOVE NE, E, E
-[X] Hobgoblin Militia: "Retreat into the cover of the forest and regroup "
My proposed changes to the plan:
Moving the 310th forward allows them to give us more sight lines and could even allow them to stop the enemy cav from reforming if we are very lucky and even if we aren't, they can still just rest after their movement.
Moving the 312th northeast flanks the enemy humans from the northeast, but more importantly, it opens up sightlines behind the woodsline that hides the Southeast of the map.
If the militia reforms in the forest theyll be closer to the action if they rejoin
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- She/They
Correct. This is a rescue mission. We've extracted them and they may as well stay extracted.
There's nowhere we can move the 310th that opens up more sight lines this turn
(remembering that Forest has a move cost of 2 and therefore we can't move through two forest tiles), and I want them where they are to block any bold moves from Elv Cav 1 to sneak into charging distance of where they thing think the arty is. Where they are now they can be prepared to brace or fire on anyone coming up through that path due south of the manor, or moving into the edge of the forest.
I'm not sure why people keep pointing this out when it's true regardless of where the artillery are sitting. Notably, all tiles blocked by the woods are coverless plains, so if they're sitting out there they're vulnerable to charges or musket potshots.
Unless Photo corrects me, this isn't a valid move. You've run out of movement halfway through the second tile.
This one I'm okay with but as stated I've got concerns about leaving the road free.
- Location
- Finland
Sure. This could be abused (as Charging is resolved before Moves), but the resolution of Charging and Moving is likely to be equalized in revisions after the tutorial anyway.
Forest has an increased Move cost, yes.
You can order an Unit to Move into a Hex it doesn't have the Movement to reach on that round. It will only get "halfway" and will have to use its next turn to Move the rest of the way. So definitely not efficient, but sometimes necessary.
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- She/They
So rather than rounding movement up (Civ 5) or down (Civ 6), you can just "average out" two subsequent move actions. Makes sense to me.
While we're talking about move cost, the E, E, E charge for the 81st in the order sets so far is valid, right? Even though they're "attacking into" a space with increased move cost?
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Our goal is to relieve them, but I do not think it is worth it to sacrifice our normal troops for the militia. Each additional unit shooting will end the fight faster and preserve more soldiers
You are correct, I forgot that forests take 2 movement.
This was not an argument against the move, I simply forgot that for a moment and wanted to be sure everyone was aware in planning
Elv Cav 2 will need to rest at least next turn and so they won't be able to charge immediatly. In two turns. And considering that they were 3 spaces away from the new location of the artillery before running away, they will probably need another turn to get in charge range. In three turns, when they could charge we could have reformed the militia and place them on the road as replacement for the 312th - the militia will be relatively safe cause the charge against them is unlikely but they will block any movement along the road
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But... in what way are there sacrifices? Like, there's no real way for them to function as a military unit except as a desperate last resort, they take extra Supplies to get back up, to the point where they can't even restore their full Cohesion.
Moreover, they've lost a total of 30% of their total forces.
If things are so desperate that their involvement will be needed to save the day, it is likely that the fighting will swing back around in that direction anyways, and if not they're likely not going to be able to be relevant at all.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
If their shooting means that an enemy unit breaks one round earlier and can't shoot one of our units for that round, then any of our units that die from the lack of support are sacrificed needlessly.
They've lost 30% of their fighting forces but these troops are still around 15% of our soldiers on the field.
Patching up fully is a waste anyway - by the time they are fully coherent the battle will be over one way or another.
Additionaly, like in my suggestion, they can be placed in the backline so another unit can be placed more aggressive
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- He/Him
Not sure how any of our units are going to get serious losses from the shooting, especially once they're fully engaged in the village/woods. Most of the enemy infantry are Green and armed with crappy guns.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
The specific situation is not that important to me but it is important no to underestimate our enemy. If the Halfling militia braces they will deal an average of 50 casualties to our hobs for example
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- She/They
Well, there you go, they're in the backline.
EDIT: Okay, more specifically, here's the thing: I also want someone occupying the fort so we don't have any surprises, and I'd rather put the militia in there where they'll be safe rather than tie up the 310th or 81st on "squat on the good tile" duty when we move the arty forward.
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