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An Extra Primarch

Should the Quest switch to a Narrative Base?

  • Yes, it will streamline things.

    Votes: 345 40.5%

  • No, I prefer the current system.

    Votes: 127 14.9%

  • Yes, but not until the Crusade begins/Prologue ends.

    Votes: 379 44.5%
  • Total voters
    851
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ilbgar123 said:
Hope the Tyranids don't figure out the process. They'd invade the galaxy just to collect Ork biomass.
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Tyranid ork farmers, its why orks are in other galaxies because nids are spreading spores on purpose in other galaxies, they aren't even here because of the Emperor's light house but because they are back to reharvest the orks. Nids aren't even space locusts, we are fighting the space farmers of a intergalactic empire. Humanity is squatting in their field and burning their crops and farmers
 
ilbgar123 said:
You know, I actually had this scenario in mind where a probe goes through a portal to a dead universe, and ends up on a White Dwarf so ancient it's mass and therefore gravity has decayed to a mere ten times that of Earth, low enough to not instantly crush the probe, sending back views of a nearby, though very dim, shining light that is determined to be Hawking radiation. This is considered perfect, as nothing could possibly have survived this sort of entropy without ex nihilo energy creation, which would have prevented exactly this sort of decay, and Creation, Energy, and Matter Crystals/Runes are made and shipped over, with Warp Crystals used to begin the process or Warhammer-forming the other universe by creating the Warp, only for it to be determined that the Warp actually already existed there, it had simply calmed from absolutely nothing happening (at least on the time scale of the life of the average star) at any point within the last few billion years, so it closely resembled what the Old Ones were working with when they first arose.
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I can just imagine a game set around the fight with the ancient slumbering gods woken by the Warhammiforming of that universe. I am imagining it as a Call of Cthulhu-Warhammer cross over. Serras should totally make friends with Nyarlathotep.

fasquardon
 
ilbgar123 said:
The Crystals are augmented by the Warp. 10% of their output is ex nihilo. Creating something from nothing shouldn't be any more difficult in a universe that's expanded to the point of heat death. Creation, Energy, and Matter Crystals should make it possible to make planet's worth of material from nothing in fairly short order, at least on the scale of such a universe's total age, even at a tenth of their Warhammer capacity.
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Ex Nihlo? Okay...but how? Are they drawing from a third tensor? Besides, all that they produce still seems to exist on the first and second tensors, meaning it is still vulnerable to Vacuum Decay. I'm still gonna push for understanding on that to make a low-probability event a no- probability event.
fasquardon said:
Wait... Does that mean we could create a crystal of warp that would create a warp in a warp-less universe?

Or, closer to home, what about making new calm areas of primordial immaterium like the one the Old Ones grew up in?
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Going by the Quantum Field/Tensor Hypothesis....maybe? Basically you'd be raising it from a stable True Vacuum to a meta-stable false vacuum (or more). Now doing this...is likely going to be really hard. Vacuum Collapse for the Materium already requires energy in such excess as to exceed regular celestial particle emissions, like Pulsars and Nova's. Otherwise we'd all be dead. Once that activation energy is reached though, the collapse releases more energy then was input. It effectively catalyzes everything around it and repeats the process. Going down is always easier though, raising energy levels would not only require a higher investment, you'd need to do it in every bit of space that you want to change the field. Energy released is smaller going up the hill after all. So making a whole new Warp? Not a little thing. Of course we don't actually know what the second tensors specifics are yet, but with the same basic theory it's at least high higher to collapse the Warp then the strongest existing Warp phenomena, and several times that to raise it multiplied by everywhere you're making it. Interestingly, it may be possible to artificially raise the Warp beyond it's current level if a meta-stable field can exist in a constrained area. At which point, we've basically made the Super Warp. Now how that actually changes anything or what the use is, I've got no idea, but it sounds awesome.
 
Nalanaya said:
Ex Nihlo? Okay...but how? Are they drawing from a third tensor? Besides, all that they produce still seems to exist on the first and second tensors, meaning it is still vulnerable to Vacuum Decay. I'm still gonna push for understanding on that to make a low-probability event a no- probability event.

Going by the Quantum Field/Tensor Hypothesis....maybe? Basically you'd be raising it from a stable True Vacuum to a meta-stable false vacuum (or more). Now doing this...is likely going to be really hard. Vacuum Collapse for the Materium already requires energy in such excess as to exceed regular celestial particle emissions, like Pulsars and Nova's. Otherwise we'd all be dead. Once that activation energy is reached though, the collapse releases more energy then was input. It effectively catalyzes everything around it and repeats the process. Going down is always easier though, raising energy levels would not only require a higher investment, you'd need to do it in every bit of space that you want to change the field. Energy released is smaller going up the hill after all. So making a whole new Warp? Not a little thing. Of course we don't actually know what the second tensors specifics are yet, but with the same basic theory it's at least high higher to collapse the Warp then the strongest existing Warp phenomena, and several times that to raise it multiplied by everywhere you're making it. Interestingly, it may be possible to artificially raise the Warp beyond it's current level if a meta-stable field can exist in a constrained area. At which point, we've basically made the Super Warp. Now how that actually changes anything or what the use is, I've got no idea, but it sounds awesome.
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I'd say something along the lines of that, though it might just be creating something from nothing. The universe had to arise somehow, which means that either it always existed in some form and it's getting recycled over and over, or ex nihilo creation is a thing we can't do with our current understanding of physics, but not something that can't happen. Just not something that happens outside of circumstances too specific to happen completely naturally.

I'm pretty sure that if you opened a portal to a universe where vacuum decay had already happened, you'd be fine, since the physics of our reality wouldn't be overwritten just from contact. It'd be bad if something came through, but there wouldn't be anything to come through. Sending a probe through would lead to the probe being destroyed, and we'd probably just try elsewhere.
 
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ilbgar123 said:
I'd say something along the lines of that, though it might just be creating something from nothing. The universe had to arise somehow, which means that either it always existed in some form and it's getting recycled over and over, or ex nihilo creation is a thing we can't do with our current understanding of physics, but not something that can't happen. Just not something that happens outside of circumstances too specific to happen completely naturally.

I'm pretty sure that if you opened a portal to a universe where vacuum decay had already happened, you'd be fine, since the physics of our reality wouldn't be overwritten just from contact. It'd be bad if something came through, but there wouldn't be anything to come through. Sending a probe through would lead to the probe being destroyed, and we'd probably just try elsewhere.
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Would the probe be destroyed though? It would pretty much by definition have to have enough energy to make the area metastable again. But depending on how that works you might just get a probe sized area of metastable false vacuum. Also, ex nilho energy and matter is pretty much a given. The recycling thing has the same issue of panspermia, i.e. "But where did that stuff come from?"
 
ilbgar123 said:
I'm pretty sure that if you opened a portal to a universe where vacuum decay had already happened, you'd be fine, since the physics of our reality wouldn't be overwritten just from contact. It'd be bad if something came through, but there wouldn't be anything to come through. Sending a probe through would lead to the probe being destroyed, and we'd probably just try elsewhere.
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Well that's good to know. I was talking more about how even if we settle in a dead 'verse with all the expans/contraction/whatever stopped, it still has a tiny possibility having a collapse occur. And the only way I can see to prevent that since we've got to exist on something after all, is to have control over it in someway. And that path starts with knowledge.

That, and all the potentially awesome shenanigans we can do by adjusting Field energy levels or even raising new ones would require such an impossibly high amount of energy brute force that cheesing it someway is the only option. And before we can break the system we need a thorough understanding of it.

Besides, the Warp being a different Quantum Field is only a Hypothesis I had because it seemed to fit. It might not be, it might be the result of multiple fields. Or something completely alien and unknown, but you work with what you have. Hopefully we'll know the basics of the truth in a couple more magnitudes of learning.
 
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I've decided. The C'Tan and Necron scientists can make energy ex nihilo, though the former were generally much better at it. The C'Tan are the ones who taught the Necrons, which is what made the Old Ones consider them gods despite their lack of Immaterial influence. The Old Ones had decent science on the material front, but, much like the Eldar, were much more focused on the Immaterium. It is technically possible to do ex nihilo creation at the apex of both of the tech trees, though difficult to control if you went the tech route while even harder to accomplish, but easier to control on the Immaterium route. The Crystals are a shortcut. Nobody entirely understands the underlying principles of 'This thing represents a concept, and will impose it with or without the Warp's compliance.' though Serras comes closest. A Necron scientist would be very interested to examine a few.
 
I don't see why not. Abhumans exist in 30k. At least Ogryns did. Our humans definitely count with how many organs and gene augmentations we gave them. Come to think of it would the average citizen of the Bastion be seen as a mutant by 40k Imperial Standards?
 
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Energy and Matter Crystals can be modified to only release the completely ex nihilo portions of their output. Serras just doesn't have any reason to want to.
 
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