An Extra Primarch

[emberwing]

Wait, does this mean our Power can still grow by 10 points?

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yes.

Spoiler: stats

Stat: Base, Bonuses; Total
Martial: 100, +10 (Primarch); 110
Combat: 100, +10 (Primarch); 110
Administration: 100, +10 (Primarch); 110
Intrigue: 100, +10 (Primarch); 110
Diplomacy: 100, +10 (Primarch); 110
Power: 100, +10 (Primarch) +20 (Powerful Psyker) +2 (Warp Spawn); 132
Control: 100, +10 (Primarch) +2 (Warp Spawn); 112
Learning: 100, +10 (Primarch); 110

as you can see from the table i tried to copy, we're currently getting +20 from it (+5 base and +15years) which will continue until it hits +30.

 

[Nachtigall]

her core tenet is to invent new technologies, make humanity independent of other entities. A big entity in that way was the Warp.

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I don't think that's true, considering Emps told her that she focuses too much on psy-tech... a suggestion which she promptly ignored.
To be fair, that's mostly because I forgot about it when writing the plans Progress and People and Psykery and Politics v3, and none of the other voters reminded me. But still, Serras definitely doesn't bother all that much with "independence from the Warp", as you put it.

"Subspace". They explained, that it was like a 4th dimension, where quick travel in system and between systems was possible. Though the technicalities escaped her for now, she would have to sit down and buy some of their "Blueprints" for their technology.

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Serras already worked on subspace tech, namely the atomic rearrangement of the replicators.

 

[Acolyte]

I don't think that's true, considering Emps told her that she focuses too much on psy-tech... a suggestion which she promptly ignored.
To be fair, that's mostly because I forgot about it when writing the plans Progress and People and Psykery and Politics v3, and none of the other voters reminded me. But still, Serras definitely doesn't bother all that much with "independence from the Warp", as you put it.


Serras already worked on subspace tech, namely the atomic rearrangement of the replicators.

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It shouldnt be a thing anyway. We cant just ignore a large part of reality. No good scientist should do it.

 

[Mossconfig]

Yeah. Necrons are not a good role model in most regards, and this is one of those. Sure the warp is polluted, but the solution isn't to wipe it out, or ignore the problem.

 

[Nicholas Brooks]

Yeah. Necrons are not a good role model in most regards, and this isoone of those. Sure the warp is polluted, but the solution isn't to wipe it out, or ignore the problem.

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Ignoring the problem was tried once. Then we got Corrupted Men of Iron.

 

[ilbgar123]

Yeah. Necrons are not a good role model in most regards, and this is one of those. Sure the warp is polluted, but the solution isn't to wipe it out, or ignore the problem.

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Ignoring the problem was tried once. Then we got Corrupted Men of Iron.

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Emps original plan was 'Create Primarchs to serve as generals. Unite the galaxy under Imperial control. Use Webway and genetic treatments to absolutely minimize the need for/use of the Warp (Won't be 100% effective, but there is a genetic component in addition to the soul one.). Begin creating harder sci-fi tech, Arcologies, Stellar Bellows, Toruses, in preparation for increasing the human population a minimum of a thousandfold. Purify the Warp via brute-force positive emotions and numbers. Once Chaos is either dormant or rewritten into a positive force, restore psychic potency.'

Serras skipped a couple steps, so he shrugged and adjusted his plans. Not like he hadn't had to do it before. Getting the Astartes out of it wasn't a bad result the first time.

 

[Acolyte]

Emps original plan was 'Create Primarchs to serve as generals. Unite the galaxy under Imperial control. Use Webway and genetic treatments to absolutely minimize the need for/use of the Warp (Won't be 100% effective, but there is a genetic component in addition to the soul one.). Begin creating harder sci-fi tech, Arcologies, Stellar Bellows, Toruses, in preparation for increasing the human population a minimum of a thousandfold. Purify the Warp via brute-force positive emotions and numbers. Once Chaos is either dormant or rewritten into a positive force, restore psychic potency.'

Serras skipped a couple steps, so he shrugged and adjusted his plans. Not like he hadn't had to do it before. Getting the Astartes out of it wasn't a bad result the first time.

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Does he think it would actually work because does he not consider that people can not always be positive or not experience negitive emotions. Or is that the target of the genetic engineering. Because that is legtimatly scary and right at home in 40k.

 

[Nicholas Brooks]

Does he think it would actually work because does he not consider that people can not always be positive or not experience negitive emotions. Or is that the target of the genetic engineering. Because that is legtimatly scary and right at home in 40k.

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I don't think that. But creating a massive lack of negativity and getting a steady flow of above-average positivity (overall) the they'll be good.

 

[Mossconfig]

Ummm, therapy asap. That plan is so pants on head stupid, it would fit into 40k.

I see no way that an enemy with essentially unlimited mobility, the ability to subvert people through infohazards, and demon worlds would be able to stop that plan.

It seems like chaos could have sat back for a few more years untill big E had the shellworlds operational, then subverted those. Did he not consider the idea of a "good guy WAAAGH!!!" field?

 

[ilbgar123]

Does he think it would actually work because does he not consider that people can not always be positive or not experience negitive emotions. Or is that the target of the genetic engineering. Because that is legtimatly scary and right at home in 40k.

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More positive emotions net value. I thought that was obvious.

 

[Acolyte]

More positive emotions net value. I thought that was obvious.

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How would he ensure that. Does he think with his conquest of the galaxy and probably the atrocities that would probably be commited. Does he think a shell world or some thing cant rebel. So seems risky as hell.

 

[Nicholas Brooks]

Ummm, therapy asap. That plan is so pants on head stupid, it would fit into 40k.

I see no way that an enemy with essentially unlimited mobility, the ability to subvert people through infohazards, and demon worlds would be able to stop that plan.

It seems like chaos could have sat back for a few more years untill big E had the shellworlds operational, then subverted those. Did he not consider the idea of a "good guy WAAAGH!!!" field?

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How the fuck will they make Daemon worlds? The Emperor would not allow psykers to go mucking about and without psykers it's gonna be pretty hard to successfully get that going.

Sure our plan may be better but it's not like the Emperor's plan was impossible.

 

[Mossconfig]

How the fuck will they make Daemon worlds?

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Chaos already has a supply of demon worlds, in the form of the crone worlds of the old eldar Dominion. In war of the kork, they have mobile demon worlds to fight against Devourer megaforms and kork war moons. The primarch mortarion landed on the planet Barbarus, a plauge world that is ruled by nurgelite sorcerers.

It is not beyond reason that some enterprising sorceror could slap some engines on the planet. If there is one thing that chaos is good at, it is ignoring conventional physics.

 

[Nicholas Brooks]

Chaos already has a supply of demon worlds, in the form of the crone worlds of the old eldar Dominion. In war of the kork, they have mobile demon worlds to fight against Devourer megaforms and kork war moons. The primarch mortarion landed on the planet Barbarus, a plauge world that is ruled by nurgelite sorcerers.

It is not beyond reason that some enterprising sorceror could slap some engines on the planet. If there is one thing that chaos is good at, it is ignoring conventional physics.

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And the Emperor with his 20 Primarch generals cannot destroy it? I doubt it. Also, I may have worded it poorly, but I was referring to subverting Imperial worlds. Because, y'know, no more psykers

 

[ilbgar123]

How would he ensure that. Does he think with his conquest of the galaxy and probably the atrocities that would probably be committed. Does he think a shell world or some thing cant rebel. So seems risky as hell.

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Improved. Quality. Of. Life.

 

[Mossconfig]

subverting Imperial worlds.

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Let's say that the emperor starts building his shellworlds. The problem with chaos is that it is an infohazard of such potency and variety that defending against it by using primitive human think-meats is very hard. Even transhuman think-meats are not immune, see Horus' little tantrum. Some cult could integrate itself into the world, and even if the emperor's forces found 99 cults, it would only take one to subvert the world.

Improved. Quality. Of. Life.

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Yeah, in a vacuum, I could see that working. I guess it's just me, but the emperor's plan seems backwards to me.

Our plan recognes that sentient waste products pollute the warp, so we will build sewage treatment plants (world spirits) and other psytech goodies to purify, corral, and remove psychic wastes. The emperor seems to believe that diet would solve the problem, and just let the psychic waste pile up.

 

[Nicholas Brooks]

Let's say that the emperor starts building his shellworlds. The problem with chaos is that it is an infohazard of such potency and variety that defending against it by using primitive human think-meats is very hard. Even transhuman think-meats are not immune, see Horus' little tantrum. Some cult could integrate itself into the world, and even if the emperor's forces found 99 cults, it would only take one to subvert the world.

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I'm pretty sure part of the plan would include Pylons which would serve to quickly silence their Gods' whispers. Also, how would there be cultists by the point shellworlds exist when there would be no more psyker genes? Also, planets resist cultist uprisings. It's not very common for cultists to successfully take over, let alone without massive resistance and even then, the violence would instantly alert the greater imperium and get themselves swiftly crushed by (likely Webway transported) super soldiers.

 

[Mossconfig]

Pylons

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We do not know the side affects of prolonged pylon exposure. It is implied pretty heavily that if the warp were to be completely blocked off, there would be effects on soul bearing life.

Cadia, the planet that we know has pylons has this quote said about them.

This is Cadia, you silly fool! Cadia! Right on the doorway of Chaos! Right in the heart of everything! The seepage of evil is so great, I have a hundred active cults to subdue every month! This place breeds recidivists like a pond breeds scum

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clearly, pylons are not the panacea of antichaos tech.

not very common

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99vs1. They don't need to be successful often.

how would there be cultists by the point shellworlds exist

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Idk, the emperor seemed to miss the formation of warrior lodges, the assumed vector of space marine corruption. Why would people willing worship slaanesh, when they can see that they will most likely end up as slave-fodder? Chaos just does that.

 

[Nicholas Brooks]

99vs1. They don't need to be successful often.

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You said if they find 99/100 cults. That doesn't mean that last cult takes over. That means that cult is still alive and any attempt at takeover is still suicide.

Edit: BTW, those pylons weren't fully active and once more: How can there be new cultists with no psykers?

 

[Mossconfig]

How can there be new cultists with no psykers?

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Not all cultists are psykers.

You said if they find 99/100 cults

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I don't know the exact statistics of the emperors theoretical anti chaos troops. The point I was trying to make is that even if most efforts to subvert imperial personnel fail, some will succeed. The difference between "find" and "fail" is quite minor.

And once more:
Chaos already has demon worlds. They don't need to go the subversive path if they slap some engines on a crone world. Maybe the subversion is a distraction for chaotic demonworlds to jump into imperial territory and go on a joy ride.

It seems we are arguing past each other. I agree that the Emperor's plan might work. The thing is, it is needlessly self sabotaging by his refusal to even consider the use of psytech. His version of science draws a hard line at the boundary of the warp, and considers anything past that illegal. Our version of science includes the warp, and we are trying our best to science the heck out of that. Sure, it's not all clear sailing, but we are trying our best.

 

[Acolyte]

Improved. Quality. Of. Life.

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Of course. But its not like people go to war over idelogy

 

[ilbgar123]

Of course. But its not like people go to war over idelogy

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The Imperium presides over that with a distinctly Baron Wulfenbach approach. What you do with your people, barring gross incompetence, outright malice, or Chaos, is your problem, including their culture. If you rebel, we come over there, and your going to get Astartes-ed and have your defenses run over by a fleet that could reduce your civilization to rubble three times over.

It's a very feudal approach, but it's enforced by the fuck-off huge ships that can and have razed continents by just blasting them until the surface is molten. An Escort can suppress a large city all by itself. A Cruiser can do the same for a county. A Dreadnought can do so for a region, and a Battleship can raze a continent, assuming no major groundside artillery or enemy fleet maneuvers interfering. It'll take a couple weeks, but everybody down there is probably dead.

Sure, Serras would be more diplomatic about it, but rebellion is a magnet for Chaos cults, because the locals get desperate, cults instigated it, or both, and Emps won't tolerate that. He also doesn't have time to deal with rebellions while trying to restore humanity's galactic hegemony.

 

[Acolyte]

The Imperium presides over that with a distinctly Baron Wulfenbach approach. What you do with your people, barring gross incompetence, outright malice, or Chaos, is your problem, including their culture. It's a very feudal approach, but it's enforced by the fuck-off huge ships that can and have razed continents by just blasting them until the surface is molten. An Escort can suppress a large city all by itself. A Cruiser can do the same for a county. A Dreadnought can do so for a region, and a Battleship can raze a continent, assuming no major groundside artillery or enemy fleet maneuvers interfering. It'll take a couple weeks, but everybody down there is probably dead.

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Yeah but that is the 40k approch. Are they even going to be effective against a shell world with shields and armor.

 

[ilbgar123]

Yeah but that is the 40k approch. Are they even going to be effective against a shell world with shields and armor.

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He wasn't planning on shell worlds. Stellar Bellows, Toruses, Arcologies, and Under-Ecumenopoli were his intentions, as he intended to make a few trillion the average human world's population, and terraform where he could, but artificial shells run into several of the same issues as Dyson Spheres, if smaller in scale. Nothing is invulnerable, and bombardment will eventually overwhelm the shield and shell.

 

[Nicholas Brooks]

Yeah but that is the 40k approch. Are they even going to be effective against a shell world with shields and armor.

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Yes. Because Imperial weapons will grow more powerful faster than shell worlds grow more defended.

He wasn't planning on shell worlds. Stellar Bellows, Toruses, Arcologies, and Under-Ecumenopoli were his intentions, as he intended to make a few trillion the average human world's population. Nothing is invulnerable, and bombardment will eventually overwhelm the shield and shell.

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Or that.