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An Extra Primarch
- Thread starter ilbgar123
- Start date
- Location
- Little Rock, AR
Also most of our experience has come from skill checks in a system that gradat so that levels aren't a crazy hike , challenges give experience for teir, and skill check experience isn't worthless.
Also we have a nice childhood. Orc murder, demon murder and all aside. Our parents are nice and competent and not dead. So we aren't running head long into the problems of our terrible social stats that aren't convincing people, and leadfoot.
Wait. Is perception people still the delegation stat? Are there more major action points hidden behind that and mass distribution of our power?
Are we gonna be running into issues with dropping all theset miracle bombs?
Should we get all demand culture perks?
Lone Courier 6
Devilish Fool
- Location
- United States of Quests
We need to train perception next!
- Location
- United States
Strictly speaking, this sounds like something any half-talented biomancer should have been able to solve.
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I wasn't aware of that passage. I've not actually read much of the HH books, most of my knowledge is more 'wide angle'.
However, we are a very powerful bio/technomancer. If we are given the time to really pour over it, and experiment a bit on other victims, we might have a chance of success. Especially if we can combine our knowledge and Power with The Emperor, Magnus, and maybe Malcadore for this task.
Nothing is Truly impossible. There are just varying degrees of difficulty.
- Location
- U.S.
I wonder why can't the emperor just rip out angron's soul and memories from his brain while on the golden throne boosting him, rip out the nails, regen the brain, and shove it all back in?
ChiefTurtle117
The Sigillite
- Location
- Holy Terra
Yeah, why not warp up a Primarch's brain. Nothing could possibly go wrong.
Plot. Angron is suppose to be stuck with the Butcher's Nails. Besides do you think tossing a Soul into the Warp and back is going to end up fine with no consequences at all ?
Would have to be done carefully, but before Slannesh the average Eldar was able to reincarnate, and so was the Emperor. So with some proper measures Angron might be able to be reincarnated into a body without the nails.
- Location
- U.S.
what do you mean the warp? I assume the emperor can trap angrons soul temporarily in a container while he quickly healed his body before shoving the soul back in, no need to make the soul travel through the warp
could we disarm the nail?
also if we are found before him and we get lucky enough to tag along with our troops on his retrieval we could intervene and save his comrades. that along with seeing us do everything we can to help them heal from what was done to them would do wonders for his loyalty
also if we are found before him and we get lucky enough to tag along with our troops on his retrieval we could intervene and save his comrades. that along with seeing us do everything we can to help them heal from what was done to them would do wonders for his loyalty
Okay so we have whole bunch of bullshit discoveries, the leveling should have put us at 200 for most of our tagged skills, we have a reliable way to pull off all our bullshit tricks on a mass scale.
I think it is time to start getting ready for our version of the great crusade. We need should start taking some invention actions, build shipyards, design some weapons for our armies to use on a mass scale, reinvent warp drive, create the infrastructure psykers need to produce our new stuff safely, create the psykers, create the stuff to wage a war across the stars!
We are no longer a baby Primarch, we still have room to grow but we shouldn't be sitting around in our home planet for much longer. That orc Waagh is going to come for us eventually and there are about a dozen different smaller human states that are supposed to form up to fight that in the way. I say we show up with the badass dreadnaught as our flagship carrying the biggest, best equipped army we can muster and rally those systems around us against that threat and form the nucleus of our Interstellar empire.
A few more turns to get ready and see anything we haven't already at most then we should start our conquests. Let's see some new stars and make an empire they never set on.
I think it is time to start getting ready for our version of the great crusade. We need should start taking some invention actions, build shipyards, design some weapons for our armies to use on a mass scale, reinvent warp drive, create the infrastructure psykers need to produce our new stuff safely, create the psykers, create the stuff to wage a war across the stars!
We are no longer a baby Primarch, we still have room to grow but we shouldn't be sitting around in our home planet for much longer. That orc Waagh is going to come for us eventually and there are about a dozen different smaller human states that are supposed to form up to fight that in the way. I say we show up with the badass dreadnaught as our flagship carrying the biggest, best equipped army we can muster and rally those systems around us against that threat and form the nucleus of our Interstellar empire.
A few more turns to get ready and see anything we haven't already at most then we should start our conquests. Let's see some new stars and make an empire they never set on.
All of this even avoiding that fact that some basic technomancy should get rid of the whole, berserker thing. That alone won't make it stop killing him, but it might help him from totally losing his marbles, assuming we can't interfere with how Big E cocked-up and got his whole family killed.
- Location
- U.S.
hmm, guess we just gotta turn off the function in the nail that rewards aggressions, and the part that causes pain, and the part that promotes aggression as well
Time for Spaacceeee!
Main issue there is we need him to cooperate with any changes on a very high level and Angron isn't trusting. While being one of the higher willpower primarchs
The rage is soul deep by now.
Main issue there is we need him to cooperate with any changes on a very high level and Angron isn't trusting. While being one of the higher willpower primarchs
ChiefTurtle117
The Sigillite
- Location
- Holy Terra
Except the Emperor didn't do it, despite the functions of a thinking Angron being supremely superior to a simple beat stick. And if Serras does it without it being an incredible effort and investement then obviously this O.C Primarch is better than Magnus, Malcador and the Emperor combined.
That assumes that any such phylactery is conductive to a soul.
Disable it and you kill Angron. The Nail is his brain.
The Warhounds were the ones to teleport him, apparently the Emperor was consent to let him have a last stand.
There are no parts that promote aggression, the subject does it themselves because anger is the only thing that's not pain..
"The Twelfth and its Legion call them the "Butcher's Nails".' The Emperor kept staring at the screens. 'You are looking at modifications to my original template of the Twelfth. More precisely, you are looking at modifications of primitive genius. Before these examinations, I had believed the enhancements performed upon the Twelfth on Nuceria were the source of its emotional instability. My hypothesis was that they stirred the Twelfth to a sense of perpetual but ultimately artificial rage. Yet the opposite is true. With the alterations made to the limbic lobe and insular cortex, the surgeons have impaired the Twelfth's ability to regulate any emotion at all. Furthermore, they have rethreaded its capacity to take pleasure in anything but the sensation of anger. They are the only chemicals and electrical signals that flow freely through, and from, its brain. All else is either dulled to nothingness or rewired to inspire a supreme degree of agony. It is a testament to the durability of my primarch project that the Twelfth has managed to survive this long.'
'His own emotions cause him pain?'
'No, Arkhan. Everything. Everything causes it pain. Thinking. Feeling. Breathing. The only respite it has is in the rewired
"The only respite it has is in the rewired neurological pleasure it receives from the chemicals of anger and aggression.'
'That's vile,' said the technoarchaeologist. 'Perversion of cognition, rather than purification."
Excerpt From: Aaron Dembski-Bowden. "The Master of Mankind." iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.
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Well, yeah, but removing the constant Pavlovian conditioning of the nails would at least make it possible to start recovery. And also make sure his legion doesn't go bat-shit either. From there, provided we become the mental-health Primarch, we have room to work. Maybe focus on how while he's trying to remember his comrades, all it does is preserve their enslavers? It wasn't the nails that brought them together after-all, but their brotherhood, honor, and desire for freedom. Have him implement that in the VII instead.
As for his will power...does it even matter? We don't need to enter his mind, or disturb the portions of the nail maintaining his brain. We just need to shut-off the aggression inducers while keeping everything else running. Hell, depending on how specialized it is, maybe get it to induce production of Serotonin and Neuro-Epinephrine again. Just Technomancy.
- Location
- United states
Except the Emperor didn't do it, despite the functions of a thinking Angron being supremely superior to a simple beat stick. And if Serras does it without it being an incredible effort and investement then obviously this O.C Primarch is better than Magnus, Malcador and the Emperor combined.
Eh, Emps just might not have cared enough to put in the effort with all the shit he was already doing. This is the same guy that let Angrons family die for no real reason. That and Angron may not have trusted any of them with it, especially Emps after what he did.
ChiefTurtle117
The Sigillite
- Location
- Holy Terra
That got reconned. The Warhounds were the ones to teleport him. Besides that's idiotic. Angron thinking and biologically immortal is superior to a thoughtless berserker on a timer. Why bother abducting him if you're not gonna ensure he's performing at peak efficiency.
"As Captain of the Legion's 8th company, Kharn earned glory for himself as the War Hounds conquered planets and systems in the Emperor's name. However, it was not until the Legion were reunited with their primarch Angron that Kharn's true rise to power, and his descent into damnation began.
.......
When the Warhounds discovered Angron they rejoiced at being reunited with their Primarch, taking knee before him and offering up the leadership of the Legion. TO their dismay, Angron, having little interest in the crusade or the Imperium, turned his back upon them. In the end, the Legion forcibly teleported Angron onto their battle barge, sealing him in a cargo hold.
Convinced that they could change the Primarch's mind the captains and the commanders of the War Hounds entered the hold to make their case. One by one Angron killed them all, until Kharn - as one of the few officers of his rank - was the only one brave enough to face the homicidal giant.
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Or this was just GW poor excuse to have a stock RAGE Primarch to inevitably fall to Chaos, and couldn't be saved 'because reasons'. I mean, I like 40K as a setting...but its shit like this that makes me unable to respect it or its owners.Except the Emperor didn't do it, despite the functions of a thinking Angron being supremely superior to a simple beat stick. And if Serras does it without it being an incredible effort and investement then obviously this O.C Primarch is better than Magnus, Malcador and the Emperor combined.
I think you're misunderstanding things. Theres keeping the Nail running, and maintaining his brain. And there's the Nail following its programming, and constantly screwing with his brain chemistry.
Would you look at this, another piece of contradictory canon! According to the wiki on Angron and his Nails...all they do is pump-up the happy-juice when he's angry, and stimulate pain for everything else. Straight Pavlovian conditioning. It was the surgery that removed his Serotonin production. The whole thing is literally to promote aggression. Another thing the wiki pointed at was A) It was Emps that ported him up, hence Angron's bitter resentment of him, and B) It was not (just?) the Emperor that analyzed the possibility of removing the Nails. Rather, it was the Admech, who were rather...unequipped to deal with archeotech and said as much.
Edit: Okay, so they retconned the teleportation (which left the whole bitter at Big E thing unexplained as a major part of his character...). As for the Nails themselves? It would be idiotic to implement them. They're pretty much worthless, and a hindrance on whoever wears them. Because the only bonus they provide? A boosted amount of adrenaline in combat, when adrenaline is already being produced. They make sense for a slave society where the whole point is being a sadistic dick, and keeping order, but in soldiers? No way.
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ChiefTurtle117
The Sigillite
- Location
- Holy Terra
well, yeah this is obviously Plot fuckery.
But the Nail is his brain. It's replaced and hooked into too much of his brain matter.
That got retconned as I've said and sourced in the post just before yours.
The Mechanicus had an entire vault full of DAOT tech on Mars that they locked down because it was blasphemy, the Butcher's Nail was one of them. They had knowledge. Though Angron's version was modified.
"It is my belief that you have seen this device before,' said the Emperor. 'Is that so?'
'Yes, Divine One. In my expedition down to the Hexarchion Vaults.'
'Vaults that were resealed by your own decree, ratified by Fabricator General Kelbor-Hal and all findings within unrecorded.'
'Yes, Divine One. The lore within represented a moral threat and a potential perversion of cognition.'
The Emperor's fingers pressed to the unconscious primarch's temple. 'But you saw a device like this.'
Arkhan Land nodded. 'The profane texts entombed within the Hexarchion Vaults named it a cruciamen."
Excerpt From: Aaron Dembski-Bowden. "The Master of Mankind." iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.
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Well yes, the Nail is -part- of his brain. But there is a difference between turning a function off, and turning a machine off, and we only need to do the former, at least to start.
It is important to keep in mind that the poor copy of the Butcher's Nail Angron implanted in his Legion makes them very uncomfortable around librarians alongside inevitably killing any of psyker implanted with one due to uncontrollable release of psychic energy, and Angron's version takes everything those do up to 11 alongside it progressively taking over functions of his brain.
In addition to that good luck trying to get one of the highest willpower Primarchs who will lash out at anything Warp related to cooperate with a delicate surgery, and none of the Primarchs are weak in raw psychic power most simply lack the training to use their abilities.
Lastly as demonstrated by Ferrus Manus being decapitated a Primarch dying releases a lot of energy so ripping Angron's body apart to remove the Butcher's Nails would probably end violently for everyone involved.
In addition to that good luck trying to get one of the highest willpower Primarchs who will lash out at anything Warp related to cooperate with a delicate surgery, and none of the Primarchs are weak in raw psychic power most simply lack the training to use their abilities.
Lastly as demonstrated by Ferrus Manus being decapitated a Primarch dying releases a lot of energy so ripping Angron's body apart to remove the Butcher's Nails would probably end violently for everyone involved.
ChiefTurtle117
The Sigillite
- Location
- Holy Terra
Then, please give me an in universe explaination as to why the Emperor, the technopath supreme didn't consider it viable. Something besides "the Empra is totes evils and didn't care" because, as i keep repeating, a Thinking Primarch would be an infinitely superior asset.