KlavoHunter
THOU SHALT WORSHIP NO GODS ABOVE ENTERPRISE!
Ugh, children.
This is why we need to become immortal!
This is why we need to become immortal!
Age of Strife
ChiefTurtle117
The Sigillite
- Location
- Holy Terra
For Anna
[X] Take her to work with you, try to show her how hard mommy works (2x)
For Mirande
[X] Try to better explain the situation (1.7x)
[X] Take her to work with you, try to show her how hard mommy works (2x)
For Mirande
[X] Try to better explain the situation (1.7x)
avatar11792
Et Sic Incipit
- Location
- Planet Earth, North America
For Anna
[X] Take her to work with you, try to show her how hard mommy works (2x)
For Mirande
[X] Try to better explain the situation (1.7x)
[X] Take her to work with you, try to show her how hard mommy works (2x)
For Mirande
[X] Try to better explain the situation (1.7x)
- Location
- Cyberspace
I do like the weighting on one level - it sort of stabilizes the character, making it harder for a sudden (and very out of character) "bright idea" to catch fire in half the questers.
Like running yourself through with a sword.
Like running yourself through with a sword.
...or ripping ourselves open to try to eat an unidentified and unexplored city-sized spaceship emitting an aura of dread strong enough that it required a will-check to even approach...
Still, weighting can be achieved by just weighting, and then revealing the weights afterwards. Putting them up front adds an undesirably volatile magnifying effect which can be achieved much more reliably by just calibrating the weights. The last thing we need is more lazy-voters dropping in here-and-there, ignoring all discussion, and saying "hey, CHARGE! looks like fun." Combine that with Sturgeon's Law and BROB's Law (Sturgeon was an optimist) and any chance at real strategy beyond what our character is capable of on autopilot goes out the window.
Last edited:
- Location
- Skyrim
For Anna
[X] Take her to work with you, try to show her how hard mommy works (2x)
For Mirande
[X] Take her to work with you, try to show her how hard mommy works (2x)
Because even if they both need to learn different lessons, that doesn't mean that they can't be taught in the same primary approach. Mirande is suffering from seeing something as arbitrarily unfair right now, and Anna doesn't understand just how important hard work really can be.
So we show them both just what their mother actually does, day in and day out.
For best effect, we'll need to do this on a day where a fair bit of physical activity (such as some training) will be involved; three year olds usually do not readily grasp more 'mental' forms of work as hard.
[X] Take her to work with you, try to show her how hard mommy works (2x)
For Mirande
[X] Take her to work with you, try to show her how hard mommy works (2x)
Because even if they both need to learn different lessons, that doesn't mean that they can't be taught in the same primary approach. Mirande is suffering from seeing something as arbitrarily unfair right now, and Anna doesn't understand just how important hard work really can be.
So we show them both just what their mother actually does, day in and day out.
For best effect, we'll need to do this on a day where a fair bit of physical activity (such as some training) will be involved; three year olds usually do not readily grasp more 'mental' forms of work as hard.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Sigh. Taking the child to work is going to fail entirely. No 3 year old is cognitively developed enough to grasp this kind of lesson in the way this would present it.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Exactly, but I'm not sure which logic we're working on, as I said before. In CK2-verse, or a lot of Quests and the like, it'd have a good chance to succeed, since many writers (myself included) aren't good at accurately portraying kids, and so tend to undershoot or overshoot.
So I have no idea what to pick.
So I have no idea what to pick.
- Location
- That light in the sky with a decaying orbit.
We're probably going to take them to watch a drill, not office work.
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- They/Them
For Anna
[x] Assign her extra chores, make sure she can't fall back on laziness (1.2x)
For Mirande
[x] Try to better explain the situation (1.7x)
Reasoning: Alright, here's why. Routine is good for people, honestly. Give her something to do, and Anna will have to focus on it, and at least learn to integrate it. Three year olds, as pointed out, work on benefit-drawback, as it were, and so chores and responsibility, as long as we frame it the right way, will help like that.
Also, as for the risk of it backfiring and her not liking it? Well, I don't expect her to love to do chores, especially spoiled as she is, but part of growing up is knowing how to do things you don't always enjoy when they are worth it. As much as I like doing research papers, do you really think I like the long slog of writing, editing, revising, just words and words and words...well, I don't, but doing it anyways is PART of being an adult, and frankly a human. We can't have her avoiding anything she dislikes just because she can. That'd lead to her foisting off the paperwork on other people, which is a recipe for disaster.
Appealing to a 3-year old's fundamental kindness or something isn't wise, really. But explaining Anna's physical weakness, and phrasing everything right (and not too adult-like) I think we can make her understand that there are rules. That's the key. The 'situation' includes the ground-rules that we expect to be obeyed, with (non-spanking, since studies show that's crap for actual discipline) punishments if she doesn't follow them and rewards of some sort if she does.
We also need to have more kids, honestly. And work up some sort of 'system' or figure out ways to raise them that work.
[x] Assign her extra chores, make sure she can't fall back on laziness (1.2x)
For Mirande
[x] Try to better explain the situation (1.7x)
Reasoning: Alright, here's why. Routine is good for people, honestly. Give her something to do, and Anna will have to focus on it, and at least learn to integrate it. Three year olds, as pointed out, work on benefit-drawback, as it were, and so chores and responsibility, as long as we frame it the right way, will help like that.
Also, as for the risk of it backfiring and her not liking it? Well, I don't expect her to love to do chores, especially spoiled as she is, but part of growing up is knowing how to do things you don't always enjoy when they are worth it. As much as I like doing research papers, do you really think I like the long slog of writing, editing, revising, just words and words and words...well, I don't, but doing it anyways is PART of being an adult, and frankly a human. We can't have her avoiding anything she dislikes just because she can. That'd lead to her foisting off the paperwork on other people, which is a recipe for disaster.
Appealing to a 3-year old's fundamental kindness or something isn't wise, really. But explaining Anna's physical weakness, and phrasing everything right (and not too adult-like) I think we can make her understand that there are rules. That's the key. The 'situation' includes the ground-rules that we expect to be obeyed, with (non-spanking, since studies show that's crap for actual discipline) punishments if she doesn't follow them and rewards of some sort if she does.
We also need to have more kids, honestly. And work up some sort of 'system' or figure out ways to raise them that work.
Last edited:
- Location
- Pilipinas
mechanic-wise, i kinda agree but IRL, there is no system in raising kids (as a person who raised two, and taught in elementary and high school, all of that raising children books are usually just common sense and children are individuals) and having more children means your grand-children and great grandchildren will wage wars for the throne if they are charismatic and ambitious enough to gain followers and was not chosen for it, or if they have outside forces backing them... this happened to me in CK2 as well as happening within my family in RL...
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- They/Them
...no, no we can't.
Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah yeah, lostech....
Oh, right, the ethical reasons as well. Those too.
Lostech nothing. Give me a few lengths of room temperature superconductor and I'll rig up an EEG-correlated fMRI we can fit into a helmet. We don't really need very much precision to shape broad behavior and cognition in constantly supervised three-year-olds.
Ethi-whatnow?
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Besides Ethics, you realize we can do cognitive-behavioral therapy just fine without having to have shocks and such.
Plus, opiates are addicting and mess with lots of stuff. People who take Opiates in large doses as children grow up to be Gregor Clegane. Imagine how horrible it would be to watch our little girl become a 8 foot tall man! And then he'd kill us.
So, vote for Lailoken if you want to Bad End us.
/Not taking this seriously.
Plus, opiates are addicting and mess with lots of stuff. People who take Opiates in large doses as children grow up to be Gregor Clegane. Imagine how horrible it would be to watch our little girl become a 8 foot tall man! And then he'd kill us.
So, vote for Lailoken if you want to Bad End us.
/Not taking this seriously.
8.4
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Take her to work with you, show her how mommy works
[X] Try to better explain the situation
You are starting to wonder if perhaps you aren't the best person to be a mother, although your friends and colleagues all assure you that you are doing your best, but your daughters just aren't coming out quite right, or at least not the way you hoped they would. You started by carefully taking Mirande to one side and sitting her down to very carefully explain what you had meant. She eventually clues in to the fact that it's not anything she or her sister or even you did, its just the way the world is, with no input on any of your part, and you're only asking that Anna be treated differently in compensation. While this seems to have cured her of her little envious snit, it does also seem to have caused her to have the three year old equivalent of an existential crisis. You are fairly certain that trying to address the issue further is just going to confuse her. You should probably try this again when she is older.
Then there is Anna, who you are also certain you went about all wrong. You took her with you to show her what you do, making her watch how you drilled your soldiers. She seemed intently interested by it all, especially how the soldiers would march and turn at your orders. She even tried barking out her own orders, which your men of course studiously ignored. You used this as a learning lesson and informed her that until she could do what they did they wouldn't follow orders. She obviously struggled to try to even put on a childish imitation of the drills being done, but the mere fact that she was trying got you to put on a little show of pageantry for her. To reward her for trying so hard, you had her be "saluted" by the men drilling to acknowledge her efforts, although they were actually saluting you but she wasn't that clever of a child to realize that you were standing behind her so that she wouldn't see you signalling your men or returning their salute. Still, it seemed to get the message across to her that she couldn't just sit back and not do anything... unfortunate the games she started playing then took on a significantly bossier tone.
Maxwell assured you that you worried too much. They were three. Besides, he was rather amused by Anna's antics.
Eventually though your time with your family had to be put on hold as you made a journey out to Shattersaw. You had been having negotiations with remaining people settled there under Grave Keeper's aegis to see if they would like to migrate to your settlements, but you also wanted to meet with Grave Keeper to make sure everything went smoothly. Especially since he wasn't the sort of person who responded to anything but face to face meetings.
Arriving at the former hospital, you found him sitting in a chair surrounded by his macabre artwork, dropping handfuls of knuckle bones on the floor, frowning at them, picking them up, and then repeating the process. He is also looking remarkably older than since you have last seen him.
He doesn't look up, but he is also clearly grinning when he says, "The Baroness who has been There and Back Again comes again. Honoured I am."
Amazingly you feel a little self-conscious at that and you say, "I... I only did it for peace, really. We shouldn't keep killing each other if we can avoid it."
Grave Keeper nods and says, "Peace is good, although peace not necessarily Good. You come here for my flags... but not as Baroness but as She Who Went There and Back Again, so I say good! A storm comes, comes for the growers and the peddlers, so take them in and take them away from it all. I will wait here, smiling."
"A storm comes?" You ask, not liking the sound of that.
Picking up his bones for the last time before shoving them in a pouch, Grave Keeper gets up and nods. "A tree's branches waved just so, and now storm winds begin to blow. Whether a shower or hurricane, I do not know."
He then pauses, reviews what he just said, and giggles at the rhyme. Apparently it hadn't been an entirely conscious decision on his part.
Thinking it over, you ask, "Any advise on which way the wind is blowing?"
"It is circling right now. Trust in slaves but not in chains or chainers, but be careful most of all of your own heart leading you away," Grave Keeper explains enigmatically. He then pauses and asks quietly and with a rather melancholy tone, "What is it like, the Other Side?"
"Being dead?" You ask.
He nods.
"I was only technically dead, and I don't remember," you state. You pause and look at him and ask, "Are you... are you okay?"
The madman grins and says, "My work is not quite finished yet, but perhaps sooner than I think. Most die young by their own reckoning. I will die old by mine, I think, but not by others. How many more years I remain I do not know, but years are trivial things."
You chew on your lower lip for a second before you ask, "You know, has anyone ever asked your story? Asked who you are?"
A sad look crosses Grave Keeper's face and he says, "Yes, many times."
That is, unfortunately, answer enough on its own.
As you are turning to leave, Grave Keeper says, "That shall be a treasure for children I think. When last we met I offered to let you know and to fear, to have and to wonder, or to ask and be aided. You have offered shelter and kindness and my burdens are lessened, so I ask if you would choose a second boon, what would it be?"
You choose...
[] Information
[] A trinket
[] A favour
[] Nothing
END TURN
The Tutorial Phase has now been completed. You may keep playing through this moment of history, or you may move to another stage.
Keep Playing as Dia Stone?
[] Yes
[] Advance to the next generation
[X] Try to better explain the situation
You are starting to wonder if perhaps you aren't the best person to be a mother, although your friends and colleagues all assure you that you are doing your best, but your daughters just aren't coming out quite right, or at least not the way you hoped they would. You started by carefully taking Mirande to one side and sitting her down to very carefully explain what you had meant. She eventually clues in to the fact that it's not anything she or her sister or even you did, its just the way the world is, with no input on any of your part, and you're only asking that Anna be treated differently in compensation. While this seems to have cured her of her little envious snit, it does also seem to have caused her to have the three year old equivalent of an existential crisis. You are fairly certain that trying to address the issue further is just going to confuse her. You should probably try this again when she is older.
Then there is Anna, who you are also certain you went about all wrong. You took her with you to show her what you do, making her watch how you drilled your soldiers. She seemed intently interested by it all, especially how the soldiers would march and turn at your orders. She even tried barking out her own orders, which your men of course studiously ignored. You used this as a learning lesson and informed her that until she could do what they did they wouldn't follow orders. She obviously struggled to try to even put on a childish imitation of the drills being done, but the mere fact that she was trying got you to put on a little show of pageantry for her. To reward her for trying so hard, you had her be "saluted" by the men drilling to acknowledge her efforts, although they were actually saluting you but she wasn't that clever of a child to realize that you were standing behind her so that she wouldn't see you signalling your men or returning their salute. Still, it seemed to get the message across to her that she couldn't just sit back and not do anything... unfortunate the games she started playing then took on a significantly bossier tone.
Maxwell assured you that you worried too much. They were three. Besides, he was rather amused by Anna's antics.
Rolled 50
Lose Slothful, Gained Proud
Lose Slothful, Gained Proud
Rolled 19
Lose Envious
Lose Envious
Eventually though your time with your family had to be put on hold as you made a journey out to Shattersaw. You had been having negotiations with remaining people settled there under Grave Keeper's aegis to see if they would like to migrate to your settlements, but you also wanted to meet with Grave Keeper to make sure everything went smoothly. Especially since he wasn't the sort of person who responded to anything but face to face meetings.
Arriving at the former hospital, you found him sitting in a chair surrounded by his macabre artwork, dropping handfuls of knuckle bones on the floor, frowning at them, picking them up, and then repeating the process. He is also looking remarkably older than since you have last seen him.
He doesn't look up, but he is also clearly grinning when he says, "The Baroness who has been There and Back Again comes again. Honoured I am."
Amazingly you feel a little self-conscious at that and you say, "I... I only did it for peace, really. We shouldn't keep killing each other if we can avoid it."
Grave Keeper nods and says, "Peace is good, although peace not necessarily Good. You come here for my flags... but not as Baroness but as She Who Went There and Back Again, so I say good! A storm comes, comes for the growers and the peddlers, so take them in and take them away from it all. I will wait here, smiling."
"A storm comes?" You ask, not liking the sound of that.
Picking up his bones for the last time before shoving them in a pouch, Grave Keeper gets up and nods. "A tree's branches waved just so, and now storm winds begin to blow. Whether a shower or hurricane, I do not know."
He then pauses, reviews what he just said, and giggles at the rhyme. Apparently it hadn't been an entirely conscious decision on his part.
Thinking it over, you ask, "Any advise on which way the wind is blowing?"
"It is circling right now. Trust in slaves but not in chains or chainers, but be careful most of all of your own heart leading you away," Grave Keeper explains enigmatically. He then pauses and asks quietly and with a rather melancholy tone, "What is it like, the Other Side?"
"Being dead?" You ask.
He nods.
"I was only technically dead, and I don't remember," you state. You pause and look at him and ask, "Are you... are you okay?"
The madman grins and says, "My work is not quite finished yet, but perhaps sooner than I think. Most die young by their own reckoning. I will die old by mine, I think, but not by others. How many more years I remain I do not know, but years are trivial things."
You chew on your lower lip for a second before you ask, "You know, has anyone ever asked your story? Asked who you are?"
Rolled 12 + 28 = 40
Failure
Failure
A sad look crosses Grave Keeper's face and he says, "Yes, many times."
That is, unfortunately, answer enough on its own.
As you are turning to leave, Grave Keeper says, "That shall be a treasure for children I think. When last we met I offered to let you know and to fear, to have and to wonder, or to ask and be aided. You have offered shelter and kindness and my burdens are lessened, so I ask if you would choose a second boon, what would it be?"
You choose...
[] Information
[] A trinket
[] A favour
[] Nothing
END TURN
The Tutorial Phase has now been completed. You may keep playing through this moment of history, or you may move to another stage.
Keep Playing as Dia Stone?
[] Yes
[] Advance to the next generation
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Yes
I'm definitely not giving up playing her yet, not when there's still so much for her to do.
I'm definitely not giving up playing her yet, not when there's still so much for her to do.
The appropriate tools can help when performing
- Pronouns
- They/Them
The problem is, while I'm sure that works to create super-soldiers, or slaves, or whatnot, what is needed are leaders, and that can't just be done with CBT, at least not well, especially since many of the qualities, such as independence and flexibility of mind, are not part of what can be taught with brainwashing.
Well, it obviously isn't going to be the entirety of their shaping.