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Age of Strife

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[X] They may take some of the raiders for "reeducation" (No further diplomatic actions needed to bring them along on subjugation)

The raiders are hardly innocents or even trying, from all appearances, to hold onto any redeeming features. Let the Dragonflies at them I say, it only means fewer of our own people get killed in the proceedings.
 
[x] They may take some of the raiders for "reeducation" (No further diplomatic actions needed to bring them along on subjugation)

Seriously, we'd have to imprison them anyway. We just have to make sure they're not going to be totally retarded about it. Make sure that we frown on asshattery.
 
Argh, gods damn it. Now with the additional info...

[x] They may take some of the raiders for "reeducation" (No further diplomatic actions needed to bring them along on subjugation)
 
[x] They may take some of the raiders for "reeducation" (No further diplomatic actions needed to bring them along on subjugation)
As much as it grates on our idealism, it will probably be the best way to deal with insane cannibals. Though not including at least some protections against slavery in our constitution might cause some problems with our soviet allies. And lets face it, as long as they don't descend into Draka levels of evil it would be the best for the survival of civilization for us to at least tolerate them and apply soft pressure to encourage them to become more humane.
 
[x] They may take some of the raiders for "reeducation" (No further diplomatic actions needed to bring them along on subjugation)
 
For those of you who don't want to have to deal with other groups powerful enough to force you to make compromises for the sake of peace, there was a critical juncture point in Turn 1. If you had emptied out the seed vaults completely, the farms would have no longer been viable and the Dragonflies and 504s would have collapsed. Shattersaw would have become completely abandoned and you could have claimed it with no further significant challenges (so long as you also made sure to blow up the armoury like you did).

You just would have killed by starvation and violence several thousand more people.
 
[x] They may take some of the raiders for "reeducation" (No further diplomatic actions needed to bring them along on subjugation)

In unrelated news, can someone explain me, why all theoutrage against unionists? Besides them harming our character personally.
 
[x] They may take some of the raiders for "reeducation" (No further diplomatic actions needed to bring them along on subjugation)
 
[x] They may take some of the raiders for "reeducation" (No further diplomatic actions needed to bring them along on subjugation)

Academia Nut said:
For those of you who don't want to have to deal with other groups powerful enough to force you to make compromises for the sake of peace, there was a critical juncture point in Turn 1. If you had emptied out the seed vaults completely, the farms would have no longer been viable and the Dragonflies and 504s would have collapsed. Shattersaw would have become completely abandoned and you could have claimed it with no further significant challenges (so long as you also made sure to blow up the armoury like you did).

You just would have killed by starvation and violence several thousand more people.
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Interesting.
 
[x] They may take some of the raiders for "reeducation" (No further diplomatic actions needed to bring them along on subjugation)

They're cannibals and we'll have to deal with them somehow. Killing them would take time as well as be unpalatable, and leaving them alone to do their crap is not acceptable. We give our allies the extreme enemies; the entrenched cannibals and worst raiders/murderers among the combatants. Though I am uncomfortable with the long term implications they can be dealt with if we put time into it. At least its some form of punishment for the severe douchebags.

Kornet said:
In unrelated news, can someone explain me, why all the outrage against unionists? Besides them harming our character personally.
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They're hardcore communists who would stab us in the back in a heartbeat if they thought they could get away with it? They'll be opposed to virtually any system we set up thats not similar to theirs.
 
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[x] They may take some of the raiders for "reeducation" (No further diplomatic actions needed to bring them along on subjugation)

As the Bandwagon says...that and I think we need our short term diplomancy actions more then we do a start on the long term goal of 'not being slavery supporting dickwadds'
 
[x] They may take some of the raiders for "reeducation" (No further diplomatic actions needed to bring them along on subjugation)

This let's us solve our current diplomatic situation next turn, instead of god knows when. It's likely that we will save more lives the sooner we move, to the point where the net available people even with giving up some debt slaves is probably higher.

Also, waiting for a constitution to be presented to us is likely to be a bad end.
 
Dream Logic said:
As the Bandwagon says...that and I think we need our short term diplomancy actions more then we do a start on the long term goal of 'not being slavery supporting dickwadds'
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If we go for a constitutional convention, we can probably get a chance to move forward on the second goal, even if under some conditions of hypocrisy due to political compromise.
 
Academia Nut said:
Ding.
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Is it viable to vote for not going after the Raiders at all just yet?

Frankly, I don't see the urgency, they can barely bring forces to bear against us, and it's our modern firearms against their melee weapons. They can be left alone for a while whilst we sort out our own constitution and decide what to do about the Dragonflies' and their wage-slavery.
 
LordsFire said:
Is it viable to vote for not going after the Raiders at all just yet?

Frankly, I don't see the urgency, they can barely bring forces to bear against us, and it's our modern firearms against their melee weapons. They can be left alone for a while whilst we sort out our own constitution and decide what to do about the Dragonflies' and their wage-slavery.
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That's completely doable, I'm just saying that you can't have everything all at once in this situation. If you refuse to compromise on this issue then you have don't have enough resources to get everything next turn. If you do compromise then you can deal with your constitution and the raiders next turn without risking the 504s and Dragonflies going at it while you are away. It's a question of what you feel your priorities are.
 
[x] They may take some of the raiders for "reeducation" (No further diplomatic actions needed to bring them along on subjugation)
Academia Nut said:
For those of you who don't want to have to deal with other groups powerful enough to force you to make compromises for the sake of peace, there was a critical juncture point in Turn 1. If you had emptied out the seed vaults completely, the farms would have no longer been viable and the Dragonflies and 504s would have collapsed. Shattersaw would have become completely abandoned and you could have claimed it with no further significant challenges (so long as you also made sure to blow up the armoury like you did).

You just would have killed by starvation and violence several thousand more people.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

So would it have been relatively peaceful (seriously stretching the definition) for the near term in that case or would you have cooked up another faction/s of crazies for us?
 
[x] They may take some of the raiders for "reeducation" (No further diplomatic actions needed to bring them along on subjugation)
 
NegativeHorizon said:
[x] They may take some of the raiders for "reeducation" (No further diplomatic actions needed to bring them along on subjugation)


So would it have been relatively peaceful (seriously stretching the definition) for the near term in that case or would you have cooked up another faction/s of crazies for us?
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The biggest problem would be that you'd be vastly more brittle by my reckoning.

As things stand, the larger number of survivors means that there's more conflicting ideologies, but a larger foundation to build up from. Assuming everyone can be wrangled into something vaguely resembling a functional society, you'll be much stronger on the whole then it would have been to expand with such a smaller foundation.
 
NegativeHorizon said:
So would it have been relatively peaceful (seriously stretching the definition) for the near term in that case or would you have cooked up another faction/s of crazies for us?
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Yes.

Less cheekily, there would have been more desperate groups in Shattersaw, but they would not have been anywhere near the same threat as the 504s or Dragonflies and you could have swept them aside and integrated the civilian survivors, with the primary challenges coming from more distant raider groups like the Imperators, Recyclers, or Free Volunteers. The "tutorial" ends when you have your Political, Economic, and Criminal Laws established and in such a game I likely would have skipped forward a few generations to the next crisis point. As it is, there is enough to do that at the very least a time skip would only be up to what happens when Dia passes and the Dragonflies and Greengrafters are (likely) politically unified under a single heir.

Although yes, there would have been fewer people to work with. You wouldn't really have immigration events, so you would be restricted to natural growth, which depending on policies could be very little.
 
Academia Nut said:
Yes.

Less cheekily, there would have been more desperate groups in Shattersaw, but they would not have been anywhere near the same threat as the 504s or Dragonflies and you could have swept them aside and integrated the civilian survivors, with the primary challenges coming from more distant raider groups like the Imperators, Recyclers, or Free Volunteers. The "tutorial" ends when you have your Political, Economic, and Criminal Laws established and in such a game I likely would have skipped forward a few generations to the next crisis point. As it is, there is enough to do that at the very least a time skip would only be up to what happens when Dia passes and the Dragonflies and Greengrafters are (likely) politically unified under a single heir.

Although yes, there would have been fewer people to work with. You wouldn't really have immigration events, so you would be restricted to natural growth, which depending on policies could be very little.
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Aww, even with only local population growth, that sounds like it'd be worth it. Oh well.
 
Academia Nut said:
Although yes, there would have been fewer people to work with. You wouldn't really have immigration events, so you would be restricted to natural growth, which depending on policies could be very little.
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In that regard, it seems decidedly odd that we have absolutely no natural growth, just because we're producing some luxury-food, and have a higher age of majority. Any chance for you to re-think that?
 
Kelenas said:
In that regard, it seems decidedly odd that we have absolutely no natural growth, just because we're producing some luxury-food, and have a higher age of majority. Any chance for you to re-think that?
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"Growth" represents the balance between children maturing to become productive adults and people passing away from age, sickness, what have you. It's intentionally abstracted. The luxury food production affects growth in that the caloric intake has dropped, and the higher age of majority means that there are slightly fewer productive years out of your workers, and that they start having families later in life, having fewer children than they might have.

Again, its an abstraction for the most part.
 
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