[X] Attempt to flip the agent (504s at -40 offensive intelligence rolls and -10 defensive rolls ifsuccessful) (0.9x)
[X] Do an internal sweep - You should probably check that your own internal security is not compromised
[X] Internal Investigation - Investigate Grave Tenders

[X] EM Field Gun Design

[X] Try to work with Anna specifically
[X] Meditate on the alien knowledge
[X] Run for Shattersaw president (100C personal wealth)
 
[X] Attempt to flip the agent (504s at -40 offensive intelligence rolls and -10 defensive rolls if successful) (0.9x)

[X] Do an internal sweep - You should probably check that your own internal security is not compromised
[X] Internal Investigation - Investigate Grave Tenders

[X] Portable Missile Launcher

[X] Try to work with Anna specifically
[X] Meditate on the alien knowledge
[X] Run for Shattersaw president (100C personal wealth)


Can we see the kids current stats anywhere?
 
[X] Try to work with Anna specifically
[X] Meditate on the alien knowledge
[X] Run for Shattersaw president (100C personal wealth)
 
[X] Attempt to flip the agent (504s at -40 offensive intelligence rolls and -10 defensive rolls if successful) (0.9x)

[X] Do an internal sweep - You should probably check that your own internal security is not compromised
[X] Internal Investigation - Investigate Grave Tenders

[X] Portable Missile Launcher

[X] Try to work with Mirande specifically
[X] Meditate on the alien knowledge
[X] Run for Shattersaw president (100C personal wealth)

Not really satisfied with this, but here's hoping Miranda's absurd willpower will keep her from exploding this round.
 
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There is literally no point working with Mirande this turn unless Dia can get something more from the Eldar index. If you aren't doing the index action you should drop the Mirande action and choose something else.

Unfortunately, we decided to take full responsibility for secretly assisting Mirande instead of pulling her out of school or referring her to the professionals. If we aren't willing to let other people help we really need to make the time regardless of whether we have new insights because otherwise she is a teenager struggling with her dark, terrible secret and the whispers of the haunting dead all on her own.



Okay, I'm just going to hit the highlights here.
1) Yes, I want to develop weapons that have a chance of helping us against the pDE.
2) You yourself have found evidence of Chaos influences. Why do you think they just gave up? And yes, the WH40K universe is imploding. That's the point of the setting.
3) Psyker issues have been talked about before I replied. And are well known.
4) Every noble that doesn't want to have the lines of succession messed up, including Maxwell? Besides, why are you assuming it would default to Miranda? It would probably go to Victoria since they have made it quite clear that they aren't ready to unite with us yet.

You know, I think I know how you operate. You get this little picture in your head. Then you refuse to change. And you have decided that there is no hope. Frankly, at this point, I'm not actually talking to you. I'm pointing out to anyone listening how irrational your ideas actually tend to be.

Awesome. Have a race of elder gods engineer humanity into living weapons for a war of annihilation against hope-eating metal zombies and build us a sixty-five million year old galactic empire from which we can collect the fruits. In the meantime, we are totally outclassed by a margin which requires scientific notation just to represent it. The Authority captured the largest cache of the most advanced weaponry on the planet and have been wielding it against them for years, and haven't even dented them. Maybe Gravekeeper has some insight into a way to make humans look less interesting (stoic and solemn is pretty boring). Perhaps constructing the crude psychic jammers which the Station tells us come after basic psychic research will make our cities unpleasant enough for them to go look for fun elsewhere. Perhaps we can convince the Exodites to let us plug the jammers into their proto-world-spirit of crystal trees and give the bad guys a splitting headache. We might be able to learn more about the world itself and discover that, while we are horribly outclassed, an entire ecosphere which has already defied them once can be wielded successfully enough to protect us.

Notice how none of these involve bottle rockets or rotary spitball launchers.​


I found evidence of chaos influence, which has been gestating for decades in massive brutal cults and still isn't even halfway done. Half our citizens and all of our allies are former cannibals. One quiet assassination between blunts is not going to birth a daemon world.

Psykers have many issues. Not among them is "using abductive reasoning to analyze them canonically doomed humanity."

The succession would default to Mirande because she is the next oldest daughter and Dia has no sons. That is how their succession works. The Dragonflies were the ones who insisted on the marriage for the explicit purpose of uniting the leadership in the next generation. You think that ancient noble families are going to to be shocked and appalled at dynastic intrigue?

You are the one who is stubbornly insisting in the face of all evidence, including direct testimony of a character in good position to know and with no reason to lie that the simple fact - and it is a simple fact, not an analysis, not a prediction, not an expectation, just a reporting of reality: "has The Authority done any damage to any of the Eldar, yes/no? No." - is that even with the best weaponry available before the fall on our extremely backwater colony planet we are completely impotent in any conventional military sense. You are effectively insisting that Frodo focus on sharpening a toothbrush with which to shiv Sauron instead of putting that effort towards finding and pursuing an asymmetric avenue. "Hobbit vs. Demigod in hand-to-hand combat" is a pretty good analogy to Greengraft's relationship with the pre-fall Eldar.



Maxwell Aetos (Dragonflies)
Rolled 57 + 22 + 8 + 11 = 98

vs.

William Orange (504s)
Rolled 23 + 36 + 14 + 7 = 80

vs.

You
Rolled 90 + 30 + 13 + 6 = 149

We had a total bonus of 49, plus some sort of other bonus somewhere since the numbers don't add up, quite, Maxwell had a bonus of 41...and the 504s had a bonus of 57.

Which means a bad roll or not paying attention could *totally* lose us the election. Both would make it inevitable.

Y'know, someone else might be irritated that they have been pointing this out since it happened, yet it is only now getting any attention.

Also of note is that they weren't running their best. This time around Michael Stern has stepped down from leader of the 504, so we might have a real fight on our hands.



So the family ends up estranged from each other, with a clear favorite and the rest ignored.





Yea I dropped the Shatter saw presidency action as given the bonuses involved we're very likely to get smashed.

We have a major fight on our hands, but we are incumbent, have won more goodwill since then, and the Dragonfly nobility might not be as insistent that Maxwell run after the thrashing he got last time if it looks like the 504 might win. This is far from in the bag, but it doesn't seem like it is time to throw in the towel either.
 
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But yeah, in theory at least we're in the perfect place politically to catch swing voters and people who say, "Shit, my candidate is losing but I don't want that 504 bastard to win, so I guess it's Dia."
 
Actually...

"This however proves a bit of their undoing since it the new guy has way less penetration into the public than you or Maxwell, and it rapidly becomes apparent that a drawn out fight will weaken your position against Maxwell, and faced with voting between you or Maxwell, the 504 voters leave in droves for you very early on in the election cycle. The day of the actual vote is one that Michael darkly mutters is a "coronation".

We can argue how much this is reflected in mechanics, in which case it's just a comment on Academia Nut and mechanics and such, but this is the text of what happened last election.

Lots of 504s switching sides to us.
 
Actually...

"This however proves a bit of their undoing since it the new guy has way less penetration into the public than you or Maxwell, and it rapidly becomes apparent that a drawn out fight will weaken your position against Maxwell, and faced with voting between you or Maxwell, the 504 voters leave in droves for you very early on in the election cycle. The day of the actual vote is one that Michael darkly mutters is a "coronation".

We can argue how much this is reflected in mechanics, in which case it's just a comment on Academia Nut and mechanics and such, but this is the text of what happened last election.

Lots of 504s switching sides to us.

Which is clearly fluff to describe the outcome of the rolls. The bonus to the dice being determined by skill and circumstances.
 
So let's skip a few centuries (to take the topic off more... heated things; I doubt there's going to be much mind-changing at this point. And to have something to do while we wait for the next update). We've managed (somehow) to take the whole planet of Dandriss, the Eldar have all taken off or decided to go hermit off in their own enclave, etc etc.

Or even we just have a nice chunk of more or less homogenous territory that consists of at least a dozen or two settlements.

So what should the society look like? What should the government be doing? Etc etc.

Just to give us something to work towards (so change towards that goal is gradual and takes advantage of opportune moments rather then brute-forcing it all at once).

Starting at, of course, the top
1. We almost certainly have a single figure (ie, our current avatar) at the top.
2. How is the successor determined, and under what circumstances? (ie, when the previous one dies, after a period of time in office, etc).
3. Will it be hereditary, where we can more or less hand-train our potential successors, or something merit-based (or other)?
4. What restrictions will there be on our avatar's ability to use the resources of the society?
5. What measures would be at our disposal to deal with internal crises?
6. If there's only one successor, what would the rest of the family do? I suspect giving people who were trained to be potential rulers nothing to focus on might turn out poorly for us - and it's a waste of talent, too.

The dangerous mind
1. Psykers. Do we let them live?
2. If so, what role would they play in society?
3. How are they found, and how are they trained?
4. Should there be a governmental monopoly on control of such individuals?

A solemn faith
1. The Gravetenders. Do we encourage it, discourage it, stomp on it or do nothing about it?
2. If we're not stomping, what role would this... religion or philosophy or whatever you want to call it... have?
 
[X] Attempt to flip the agent (504s at -40 offensive intelligence rolls and -10 defensive rolls ifsuccessful) (0.9x)
[X] Do an internal sweep - You should probably check that your own internal security is not compromised
[X] Internal Investigation - Investigate Grave Tenders

[X] EM Field Gun Design

[X] Try to work with Anna specifically
[X] Meditate on the alien knowledge
[X] Run for Shattersaw president (100C personal wealth)
 
Please note that you don't actually look for solutions involving our constantly evolving technology. You seem to assume that Dues Ex Machina is the only way to get anything . One assassination from the first of a line toward her own child sounds like an excellent way to invite Chaos into our world. You know, there is a reason that a parent killing their own child is considered the most inhuman of all acts. Note, I did not say inhumane, I said inhuman. And that would be assuming that we got away with it at all, which is unlikely.

And yes, even the most calloused of Dragonflies would care. Because that would be Dia meddling in their succession. And that is entirely unacceptable to nobles of any stripe. The exact kind of thing that civil wars get fought over.

And no, I wouldn't object to another solution to the Eldar problem. Hell, I actually mentioned that I agree with you on sending out expeditions. But that doesn't mean that I want to stop developing as much weaponry as possible. Or, to use your analogy, yes, I hope that Frodo can toss the ring in the volcano. That doesn't mean that I'm going to take away Sting.

And, as to your comment on the statistics for the election, there is a reason that people haven't listened to you. It wasn't relevant at the time. And when someone brought it up, people looked at the statistics and decided it was worth it to try anyway.

So! Not only are you annoying, you are almost entirely ineffectual too!
 
So! Not only are you annoying, you are almost entirely ineffectual too!

Right now you're actually being kind of a jerk you're also not even responding to what he's actually saying. Just because you find his ideas unpalatable doesn't make the logic behind them unsound. I mean I don't have any desire to follow through on his idea to kill Anna but he's not wrong that it wouldn't be that hard to hide evidence of it and pull it off.
 
Please note that you don't actually look for solutions involving our constantly evolving technology. You seem to assume that Dues Ex Machina is the only way to get anything . One assassination from the first of a line toward her own child sounds like an excellent way to invite Chaos into our world. You know, there is a reason that a parent killing their own child is considered the most inhuman of all acts. Note, I did not say inhumane, I said inhuman. And that would be assuming that we got away with it at all, which is unlikely.

And yes, even the most calloused of Dragonflies would care. Because that would be Dia meddling in their succession. And that is entirely unacceptable to nobles of any stripe. The exact kind of thing that civil wars get fought over.

And no, I wouldn't object to another solution to the Eldar problem. Hell, I actually mentioned that I agree with you on sending out expeditions. But that doesn't mean that I want to stop developing as much weaponry as possible. Or, to use your analogy, yes, I hope that Frodo can toss the ring in the volcano. That doesn't mean that I'm going to take away Sting.

And, as to your comment on the statistics for the election, there is a reason that people haven't listened to you. It wasn't relevant at the time. And when someone brought it up, people looked at the statistics and decided it was worth it to try anyway.

So! Not only are you annoying, you are almost entirely ineffectual too!

I don't look for solutions involving our constantly evolving military options when our military options are only evolving from "hilariously outclassed" to "infinitesimally less hilariously outclassed". An example of looking for a solution in the form of our evolving nonmilitary technology was pursuing the psychic jammers mentioned in the Station scene as being right after basic psychic research. Believe it or not, not every problem is solved by shooting at it. Malicious invisible immortal superpowered gods is one of the problems which is not likely to be solved with better guns. If the only invitation Chaos required was a single clinical execution done for the welfare of humanity Chaos would have conquered the entire 40K universe ages ago. Y'know what a lot of societies find even worse than the very common act of a mother killing their child? Cannibalism. For decades the entire region has had more people being eaten than a Freudian orgy.

The nobles are not going to start a war they will obviously lose using a military they don't have over a technically legitimate loophole and the internal matters of another noble family when it gets them what they wanted from the marriage to begin with: a unified leadership. If they do, they get stomped down and we not only get a unified polity, but an excuse to eliminate all of the most noxious elements from Dragonfly at the same time. The Dragonfly nobles being stupid enough to start an extremely short civil war would be a good thing.

Resources are scarce. If you invest in sharpened toothbrushes you can't afford good boots. We have no foreseeable use for additional military hardware other than a fight with the 504 and Dragonflies, and in the process of pursuing it we have actually diminished our military advantage over the 504 and Dragonflies.

Considering that it was brought up as a counter to the claim that we could win easily without campaigning, and appears to have killed that position dead, pointing out that we need to campaign if we want to win has been very effective.
 
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I think this is something that people basically aren't going to agree on.

I see the Eldar as basically being what the Olympian gods were to the Greek heroes of the Illiad and the Odyssey. You can defy them, but you can't defeat them. What you certainly can't do is say 'if I improve the quality of the bronze alloy in my shield I can defeat Zeus and all his thunderbolts'. What you can do is make sure Zeus ignores you by never defining his temples and acting so as never to raise his ire.

Other people see the Eldar as just another peer competitor, that we can fight, kill, and deter, and become militarily superior to them so we can exert control.
 
Doesn't Warhammer 40K have Eldar armies? Or is there merely a box and all of the figurines read 'I win' in bold letters, and as soon as you put one down the game ends?

40K is set in the year 40K, and has post-fall Eldar armies, which are basically the minor roving bands of refugees who managed to desperately launch themselves far enough into the void before the galactic empire imploded. They spend every second watching over their shoulders for the demon god thirsting for their souls and are horrified of death because they are doomed to Slaaneshi hell if they don't manage to capture their souls in soulstones. The only source of these soulstones are the former Eldar homeworlds deep within the literal portal to hell their civilization tore into the fabric of reality and raiding them for more is considered virtual suicide. They reproduce very slowly, in no small part because dooming a new soul to such an existence is a profound crime. They have fewer scraps of their civilization's technology than Greengraft does of the full DAOT human empire. They make more use of psychic abilities than anyone else, but that is a pale shadow of their full abilities with them limiting themselves in the tightest manner possible to (usually) prevent horrible results. Their plan for the end game is to get everybody to kill themselves all at once and birth a death god, even though it probably won't be strong enough to challenge Slaanesh.

What we are dealing with now are Eldar from the intact original sixty-five million year old galactic empire. Very different.
 
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Doesn't Warhammer 40K have Eldar armies? Or is there merely a box and all of the figurines read 'I win' in bold letters, and as soon as you put one down the game ends?

Would you care to launch an argument that isn't built on quick sand floating on lava about to fall into the mouth of a black hole?

This is not warhammer 40k, this is the age of strife where the Eldar are currently basically gods and the DAoT humanity were stomped by Eldar as when the eldar wanted to. We aren't even a grain of sand before the peak of DAoT humanity never mind the Eldar.
 
Basically, the human fall has happened. The Eldar fall happens in five thousand years, and when it happens, they fall an awful lot further than humanity did, and still end up higher.

The current Eldar are more powerful than peak DAoT humanity, and the way they're designed means they're less dependent on infrastructure and institutions. We can't even match what the peak of this world could produce, which is thousands of years behind modern humanity.
 
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True, but you're all ignoring a couple of points. First, they are growing progressively weaker as they splinter harder and harder. Second, I'm not entirely sure how they are reborn, but I doubt it's a fast process. And the last, most important point.

They are a single point of failure system: they rely on the Webway. We take that out, and we're good, especially with the Warp storms making space travel increasingly unreliable and risky.

However, if we start making moves towards the Node, they are likely to fight hard to keep it active. Which means...WE NEED GUNS!!!!!

And, on a meta level, this is a CK2 quest. That means that most of the time, the order of importance goes like this: Stewardship->Military->Intrigue->The other three
 
They are a single point of failure system: they rely on the Webway. We take that out, and we're good, especially with the Warp storms making space travel increasingly unreliable and risky.

Well, your certainly not with out ambition but if you want to try and pull something the emperor certainly couldn't I'd like to know what your proposed method is.
 
they rely on the Webway. We take that out, and we're good
Lolwut. 'Take that out'? Dude, the GEoM himself never fully figured out how the Webway worked. You think a former Warrant Officer at a glorified backcountry agricultural research station is going to figure out how to cut off the local Eldar from the Webway?

If we make any moves at their local Node, we go from 'mildly annoying Mon-Keigh vermin that happen to be on the planet' to 'Active threat, bring out the guns'. They'll swat us like a fly. Calm down and rethink that.
 
Lolwut. 'Take that out'? Dude, the GEoM himself never fully figured out how the Webway worked. You think a former Warrant Officer at a glorified backcountry agricultural research station is going to figure out how to cut off the local Eldar from the Webway?

If we make any moves at their local Node, we go from 'mildly annoying Mon-Keigh vermin that happen to be on the planet' to 'Active threat, bring out the guns'. They'll swat us like a fly. Calm down and rethink that.

To put it another way the fall of the eldar empire didn't fully destroy it, The Necrontyr/Necrons and C'tan couldn't destroy it. Dia and Greengraft will never be a threat to the Eldar webways.

it's like expecting an ant to be able to destroy a planet.

Besides which the Exodite guy seems to have a mildly positive opinion of us, I'd prefer to improve on that than to actively antagonise a group that otherwise might possibly with a bit of luck be turned into a full ally.
 
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