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Age of Strife
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
I think The Laurent is being too passionate about a Machine Head point of view that hasn't been confirmed yet. I've basically given a propable answer to his 'why would they' question already that he hasn't awknowledged. His virtual tone seems a lot more emotional, rather than calm and logical.
On the other hand, I haven't actually voted yet either. He could be right, though I doubt it. The bigger issues to me aren't 'why' it's 'how' and the other groups perceptions of this event.
Either way, we'll need Academia to weigh in on these questions, or else we'll have to come up with plausible answers ourselves.
On the other hand, I haven't actually voted yet either. He could be right, though I doubt it. The bigger issues to me aren't 'why' it's 'how' and the other groups perceptions of this event.
Either way, we'll need Academia to weigh in on these questions, or else we'll have to come up with plausible answers ourselves.
Which tactic do you use?
[x] Conciliatory - attempt to find some way to smooth over the bad blood between the two groups (0.7+d.10x)
Fourth daughter's name?
Athena
As for that last update, it looks like we need to look into the culture section to make more sense of the index. You know seeing as how there were those parts that we couldn't make out clearly.
[x] Conciliatory - attempt to find some way to smooth over the bad blood between the two groups (0.7+d.10x)
Fourth daughter's name?
Athena
As for that last update, it looks like we need to look into the culture section to make more sense of the index. You know seeing as how there were those parts that we couldn't make out clearly.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
Simply put, you assume way too much subserviance, and way too little attachment to their homes and way of life. Do they have a guarentee of actual democracy and independence if they move...where? Shattersaw, I suppose, which has an elected president but also a leader's council that they aren't a part of. They'd be giving up a moderately strong (if hardly stable) position for a weak and uncertain one, and for our part we'd be handing the 504s a massive amount of land and resources.
If we were forced to move right now we'd leave behind all sorts of resources, technology, and the like. The Machine Heads will be no different in that sense, other than just sabotaging or destroying all of their stuff before they move, and if they don't do so, then the 504s get access to a lot of new resources that I doubt they'll share with us at all. Why would they? We know from word-of-QM that had we waited even one more turn for Confederacy, the 504s, feeling locked out of the loop, would have sided with Space Nobles rather than accept being completely subservient. So I'm not sure I trust strengthening them and weakening the Machine Heads, which is what the move would be in the short and medium term, and I'm not sure, if I was a Machine Head, whether I'd trust us THAT much.
I mean, try to look at it as a player, would *you* accept that sort of deal? I wouldn't, because it's not a sensible or sane one in that it gives you very little, lets the enemy you've been fighting walk away with everything, all for the vague promise of a new life in Shattersaw...governed by a council that includes your enemy on it.
Edit: Also, on another note, Dat Natural 1 for childbirth. God, our luck sucks sometimes.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
Actually, I'd both agree and disagree with you. By what you're saying, you're likely in favor of removal, which I don't agree with for the reasons I've outlined elsewhere, as well as other reasons. At the same time, while I think Conciliatory is not a good option either (here agreeing with you) I think it's a better option than removal. What I really want to vote for and what I might be forced to discard in order to keep Removal from winning, is
[] Independent - start figuring out ways to go around the 504s economically (0.2+d.10x)
But I think I'm alone there.
The problem with Independent, in my mind, is that it might push the 504s back into the Authority's arms, again, which we just barely avoided with by forming the Confederacy. Something we should probably avoid.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Hmm, true. That does make it a sticky situation indeed.
[x] Conciliatory - attempt to find some way to smooth over the bad blood between the two groups (0.7+d.10x)
[x] Rina
I think I'll go with these two. It's a good point that "Removal" would be both logistically and diplomatically very difficult to realize, since not only would we have to convince the Machine Heads that this is the best choice for them - remember that they barely know anything about us, as well - but then we'd also have to transport several hundreds, or potentially thousands of people along with their belongings, foods, etc. from their territory, through the 504s' territory, through Shattersaw, through Greengraft and Glenshade, to Amethyst Garden and the settlements beyond. Additionally, it could greatly strengthen the 504s, both by giving them more space to expand to as they could take over the Machine Heads' former settlements, and by removing the Machine Heads as an obstacle preventing them from expanding further outward. Which is something I'd rather avoid, to be honest, as they're likely the most unstable element of the Confederacy, and it's quite possible that they might decide to just book it, or otherwise exploit the situation.
[x] Rina
I think I'll go with these two. It's a good point that "Removal" would be both logistically and diplomatically very difficult to realize, since not only would we have to convince the Machine Heads that this is the best choice for them - remember that they barely know anything about us, as well - but then we'd also have to transport several hundreds, or potentially thousands of people along with their belongings, foods, etc. from their territory, through the 504s' territory, through Shattersaw, through Greengraft and Glenshade, to Amethyst Garden and the settlements beyond. Additionally, it could greatly strengthen the 504s, both by giving them more space to expand to as they could take over the Machine Heads' former settlements, and by removing the Machine Heads as an obstacle preventing them from expanding further outward. Which is something I'd rather avoid, to be honest, as they're likely the most unstable element of the Confederacy, and it's quite possible that they might decide to just book it, or otherwise exploit the situation.
These are just all very confusingly named and worded. I need to sleep on this vote.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
If you smooth things over between them you are paving the way for them to merge into one polity, if you are worried about removal strengthening the 504s logically you should be even more concerned with conciliatory.
I'm going to vote for removal.
[X] Removal - the simplest solution is to remove the Machine Heads from the presence of the 504s by having them move into your territory, where you have plenty of space (0.5+d.10x)
Kelenas given your reasoning you actually want to vote independent as that would make them potentially a forth faction.
I'm going to vote for removal.
[X] Removal - the simplest solution is to remove the Machine Heads from the presence of the 504s by having them move into your territory, where you have plenty of space (0.5+d.10x)
Kelenas given your reasoning you actually want to vote independent as that would make them potentially a forth faction.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
The difficulty is that we're walking a tight-rope. Too strong and the 504s threaten us, too weak and they join the Authority even though it betrays every last scrap of anything they ever believed in to do so.
Yeah, no. France and Germany reconciliated after WW2, but I rather doubt you'd expect them to join together into a single country anytime soon, do you? I see things similarly with the 504s and Machine Heads. Particularly since there's still plenty of aspects about 504 social structure that ought to be somewhat disturbing for the Machine Heads.
I fail to see how?
[x] Conciliatory - attempt to find some way to smooth over the bad blood between the two groups (0.7+d.10x)
They've been at war with each other for a decade. They are not going to merge into one polity just with a snap of a finger. This just ensures there hopefully won't be further outright hostility between them.
They've been at war with each other for a decade. They are not going to merge into one polity just with a snap of a finger. This just ensures there hopefully won't be further outright hostility between them.
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
Though the Machine Heads being their own faction is somewhat of an issue in its own right should they wish to join the confederacy as another faction in the leadership council would mean that Greengraft would no longer have a majority with the Dragonflies.
True, though arguably that would most likely make the 504s somewhat happy and reduce the chance of them bailing out to join up with the Authority. The rest is then a matter of convincing people of our point of view.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Potentially, yes, but can you see them uniting with the 504s for any serious matter? We'd have to restructure things somewhat, though. How would we get that tie-breaker vote? Since a system that can deadlock indefinitely isn't a good one. Hrm.
- Location
- National Capital Region, USA
[X] Removal - the simplest solution is to remove the Machine Heads from the presence of the 504s by having them move into your territory, where you have plenty of space (0.5+d.10x)
We should make the offer, at least. The Machine Heads know us and that we've been making strong efforts to go around the 504th to talk to them honestly. They know the only time we've gone head to head it was a misunderstanding the 504th deliberately arranged, and that we have a functioning representative government in our area. We can make the pitch that they can come move into Greengraft territories if they want, but that it's not required if they feel attached to their homes. Those 'homes' may just be wherever they happened to find refuge after the Starfall, or where they were trapped when it happened. It's not like this is their ancestral homelands of generations long gone.
This is something we should present as an offer and an escape hatch if they want it, not as a Trail of Tears mandatory evacuation.
We should make the offer, at least. The Machine Heads know us and that we've been making strong efforts to go around the 504th to talk to them honestly. They know the only time we've gone head to head it was a misunderstanding the 504th deliberately arranged, and that we have a functioning representative government in our area. We can make the pitch that they can come move into Greengraft territories if they want, but that it's not required if they feel attached to their homes. Those 'homes' may just be wherever they happened to find refuge after the Starfall, or where they were trapped when it happened. It's not like this is their ancestral homelands of generations long gone.
This is something we should present as an offer and an escape hatch if they want it, not as a Trail of Tears mandatory evacuation.
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SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
President gets the tie breaker.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Hmm, that's at least somewhat more palatable, though it'd almost make sense for the QM to chime in in terms of what each choice actually does and what our stated goal is for this negotiation.
And good idea @SuperSonicSound , that's what I was going to type but I wasn't sure if the 504s would accept it. Still, as long as they have a hope of maybe getting the presidency in the future, that would work.
And good idea @SuperSonicSound , that's what I was going to type but I wasn't sure if the 504s would accept it. Still, as long as they have a hope of maybe getting the presidency in the future, that would work.
- Location
- Cyberspace
@Academia Nut, does Dia have any idea as to the viability of the 'removal', and any particular plan as to how to accomplish it?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Removal would most likely be accomplished by having the Machine Heads move into Shattersaw or possibly into Greengraft territory, but the Machine Heads are likely to be resistant to moving and they would have to move through 504 territory (technically, they wouldn't really be stopping in any of their settlements but would remain in the rail lines, but it is still a friction point) so the 504s would also be somewhat resistant. Actually the 504s are more in favour of the Machine Heads in your territory than in Shattersaw since it would get them fully away from them.
All in all, it would be a difficult sell. The other options have problems too though. In particular, reconciliation is likely going to cost you money as the 504s demand reparations that the Machine Heads can't pay and you have to decide between just giving them the money, giving them a loan, and trying a much harder diplo check to get them to agree to things.
All in all, it would be a difficult sell. The other options have problems too though. In particular, reconciliation is likely going to cost you money as the 504s demand reparations that the Machine Heads can't pay and you have to decide between just giving them the money, giving them a loan, and trying a much harder diplo check to get them to agree to things.
@Academia Nut - what effect would independent have?
XkaliburRage
Perpetual Procrastinator
[X] Removal - the simplest solution is to remove the Machine Heads from the presence of the 504s by having them move into your territory, where you have plenty of space (0.5+d.10x)
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Well on the plus side paying the Machine heads reparations likely means charitable trait or at least behind the scenes progress towards it.