I'll just say the advantage of Aten is not that it's good eventually. It's a subpar mobile base, but it is a mobile base. In a single project. It provides immediate mobility, which may allow us to get more or better projects, or to flee dangerous areas.[] Glass Cannon
(Aether, Clockwork, Crystal, Electricity, Thermal, Artillery, Personal, Adjustable)
A ranged hand cannon capable of liquefying the very earth. Technically, it wouldn't be turning anything to glass unless you shot at sand. You feel the name still works despite that little detail. The fact that it can be used as a weapon is just an added bonus; your primary objective is to open up the possibility of proper army-sized audience exploitation in the future.
You might be able to merge it with Skybreaker, but you aren't certain.
Sound kinda neat, it's an actual weapon and it has some nice future potential. A good combination of short and long term benefits. My only issue is that it sorta overlaps with Skybreaker in purpose, since that's also a potential weapon. Merging is neat, but nothing decisive.
A construction/offensive option. Solid choice
[] Lightweight
(Aether, Crystal, Electricity, Personal, Adjustable)
A device virtually useless on its own, Lightweight would let you almost completely shut off gravity in an adjustable area. The maximum size should be enough to fit an entire keep inside. As with virtually every other project you'll create while you have an audience to work with, it won't ever require additional fuel.
Ehh. Some cool possiblities there, nice mobility and a way to shut down an army. Possibly Empowered too, speed is pretty useless just floating in the air.
A mobility/control option. Another solid choice.
[] Aten
(Aether, Clockwork, Crystal, Thermal, Adjustable, Aligned)
A mirrorlike disc with a radius of approximately five meters, Aten would be capable of directed flight, albeit at a relatively low altitude. During the day, it would also be capable of incinerating any poor fools directly beneath it at middling ranges. You're pretty sure you won't even need to bother with railings as long as you make it automatically move to support you.
Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems like a terrible option. Like, Lightweight will do flight better (more, higher, faster; just takes a bit more work), and Glass Cannon burn things better, and either is more versatile. Doesn't seem like something to build off of. That said, it can be used immediately, so good for short term benefits. Especially if we want to leave this region soon.
A mobility/offense option. Like Skybreaker functionally, but not as cool. Not my choice
[] Prometheus's Gift
(Aether, Crystal, Modular, Adjustable. Optional: Clockwork, Automaton, Personal)
The most powerful miniaturized perpetual energy generator you can make with the knowledge you have access to. On its own, it accomplishes absolutely nothing, but you should be able to use it as a power source for your future inventions. It should suffice for at least a few ordinary projects. You're hoping to give it spider-like legs and some rudimentary defenses as well, but that's strictly secondary to your main objective.
Lost of potential here, but no immediate benefit. I'm not sure how good this is, honestly. We've not really had much issue with power, but that's something pretty special itself. @Alivaril how rare is that, and how much of a problem is energy normally?
Without that info, I can't really estimate the value. It might be amazing, or it might be meh. As it is, I think it's not good enough to make up for the lack of short term rewards. We're still in the easily fucked phase, and this does nothing for that.
Pure support option.
[] Wraith Field
(Crystal, Aether, Personal, Worn)
A device to temporarily pull you and everything close enough to you — say, within a meter or three — into the Void. You'll need to build some form of propulsion once you're in there, but travelling inside it should let you effectively navigate through solid objects. You'll need to set up safeties to ensure you don't return inside a wall, of course; you get the feeling doing so would be distressingly fatal.
This seems like it could have some really good synergy with Skybreaker. Neat if we want to go for a stealthy thief route, but it seems we're going more for bombastic and eye-catching. So neat in principle, but I don't think it synergies well with our play-style. Not much to build off on either. It might be rigged as a fuck you to close range opponents, as a one-way trip to the void.
A mobility/short-range combat option, maybe. Decent, but I don't think it's a goo fit for our style.
[] Titanian
(Aether, Clockwork, Crystal, Fabric, Personal, Automaton, Automated, Toggled, Worn)
A two-layer suit of armor. The inner layer is an almost scandalously form-fitting dress capable of dampening the force of most incoming attacks in addition to telling reality that no, those bullets can't pierce the cloth it's made of, thank you very much. The golden outer layer can break apart on command to form a swarm of small, flying warclocks, half of whom would block incoming threats while the other half would seek out and destroy any weapons attacking you. The users of any such weapons, if any, would be left alone.
It's a defensive option. That's good. We don't really have that. It's pretty cool, in my opinion. Maybe we can make the robots into construction/logistics robots a la Factorio eventually, but probably not. So it's not something that will be much stronger in the long term. Still, it's unique in that it does something that Skybreaker doesn't do, which isn't the case for the other option except the generator.
Defense option. Also, always have the swag.
Hmm, so here's a prelinary rating:
Top tier: Glass Cannon, Titanian, Lightweight
I like Glass Cannon because it's a good offense and helps in constructing mega-projects. Probably my top pick.
Titanian does something we really want, especially if we keep prancing about in front of large groups of angry people.
Lightweight is nice, but ultimately, its function doesn't help diversify as much as the other top picks. It also doesn't have the sheer coolness of the other two.
Mid tier: Prometheus's Gift
Can't judge Gift yet, but it's lacking a use right now, and the other option seem more useful later on.
Bottom tier: Aten, Wraith Field
Maybe I just don't get Aten, but for me, everything it does can be done better by something else.
Wraith Field just doesn't synergies with our style, and I want to keep the musical number coming (best part of the quest so far).
Lost of potential here, but no immediate benefit. I'm not sure how good this is, honestly. We've not really had much issue with power, but that's something pretty special itself. @Alivaril how rare is that, and how much of a problem is energy normally?
[x] Titanian
Dead people dont get to build stuff. Also this quest has a severe shortage of self-animating armor suits.
(Favorite Titanian, next favorite Wraith Field, next Glass Cannon, etc.)Example said:[3] Glass Cannon
[5] Lightweight
[6] Aten
[4] Prometheus's Gift
[2] Wraith Field
[1] Titanian
(Aether, Clockwork, Crystal, Thermal, Adjustable, Aligned)
A mirrorlike disc with a radius of approximately five meters, Aten would be capable of directed flight, albeit at a relatively low altitude. During the day, it would also be capable of incinerating any poor fools directly beneath it at middling ranges. You're pretty sure you won't even need to bother with railings as long as you make it automatically move to support you.
I'm skeptical of Aten having the power to be the motive power for a full flying fortress, unless combined with I.E. Lightweight. Good point about Titanian.Our major goals:
To start with, the runners-up:
- Protect ourselves from random ganks and assassination attempts by Empowered
- Protect ourselves from armies so we can exploit them for high-end builds
- Medium-size material transport so we aren't limited to top-tier builds (with audiences) and bottom-tier builds (scavenged low-end parts)
- A more usable and flexible weapon to help us deal with non-pathetic Inspired
3: Titanian
This would mostly be useful for protecting ourselves from armies and assassination attempts. It'd probably do a decent chance at both, but it'd also make it Obvious that we're an Inspired, and I have a feeling that right now that would cause more problems than the armor would solve. Also, I suspect that the defensive module can be dramatically improved with a few parts and some extra work.
4: Glass Cannon
5: Lightweight
We don't have anything to do with these yet, they're pretty much useless without each other, and it'll likely take us at least a bit to get another audience-powered major surge.
6: Wraith Field
Doesn't address any of our current major problems. If combined with the defensive module it'd help us survive Empowered assaults, but the defensive module is currently too power-intensive and obvious to be kept up 24/7.
Finally:
2: Aten
Solves material transport which significantly improves our ability to make medium-tier builds, solves the problem of hostile Inspired. Can serve as motive power for a flying fortress build once we do that.
1: Prometheus's Gift
Doesn't do anything on its own, but replaces audience participation for a huge pile of high-tier builds. For example, defense: We could use the Reactor to run the defense module 24/7, solving the problem of getting ganked by Empowered and protecting ourselves from armies. We could probably do that tomorrow, so in my book it counts as "directly solves a problem and is immediately useful". In a more medium term, still before our next audience-assisted major surge, we could power a lesser Lightener or Aten or some other suitable transport, solving that with nothing more than a bunch of warclock scrap. I imagine that it would be the work of moments to build a weapon that uses it, whether that's some kind of aetheric blaster that just opens a tap from the reactor to our targets or some kind of projectile launcher or a lesser Glass Cannon, solving hostile inspired. And so on and so forth. It takes so many things that were previously long-term goals and makes the immediately available, and so it easily takes the first place on my list.
For easy copying and pasting, remember to include your justification:
[1] Prometheus's Gift
[2] Aten
[3] Titanian
[4] Glass Cannon
[5] Lightweight
[6] Wraith Field
It wouldn't, not without Lightener making the fortress draggable, but we're not going to have the bulk resources for a flying fortress without Glass Cannon so the limitation isn't an issue right now. Note how Inspiration sheepishly backed off to a glider or small helicoptery thing, with more coming later, when we asked it if a flying fortress was buildable in a single session. A load limit of 6k pounds is more than enough to transport us and any resources we're going to want to use before we build the Glass Cannon.I'm skeptical of Aten having the power to be the motive power for a full flying fortress,
As far as I know, audience participation is necessary for three things:I don't think Prometheus's gift is quite that good, but it's definitely pretty useful. (We still need resources to make things, and it only subs for small parts of audience benefits.)
Fair point. Might be a bit hard to carry, though. @Alivaril How does Titanian handle its own weight? I'm guessing that the inner layer is unpowered and there to be super-durable, while the layer of warclocks on the outside provides the strength to lift itself? Or are the warclocks built to be weightless/levitating so the outer layer is weightless?If we end up going Titanian, when we are incognito, maybe we could wear the inner layer, then carry around the outer layer with us in a bag in case we need it? The outer parts do move on their own.
I did vote for Aten first. I was just pointing that out.It wouldn't, not without Lightener making the fortress draggable, but we're not going to have the bulk resources for a flying fortress without Glass Cannon so the limitation isn't an issue right now. Note how Inspiration sheepishly backed off to a glider or small helicoptery thing, with more coming later, when we asked it if a flying fortress was buildable in a single session. A load limit of 6k pounds is more than enough to transport us and any resources we're going to want to use before we build the Glass Cannon.
Huh. You probably have the better interpretation than me, because that isn't remotely what I thought it did.As far as I know, audience participation is necessary for three things:
The last one is important for fail-deadly things like the Lightener and defensive tools like Titanian, but tools like Glass Cannon or overland transport don't need artifact-tier durability. Prometheus' Gift totally replaces the first one. That leaves matter transmutation as the last major benefit of having an audience, and even that's apparently not too hard to deal with.
- Invulnerability, so we don't die horribly when our signature perpetual-energy aether reactors explode during the construction process
- Matter transmutation, since our top-tier builds use a shit-ton of Crystal and the stuff is difficult to come by
- Telling reality that our builds are indestructible
Fair point. Might be a bit hard to carry, though. @Alivaril How does Titanian handle its own weight? I'm guessing that the inner layer is unpowered and there to be super-durable, while the layer of warclocks on the outside provides strength?
Hm. I think that we might be disagreeing about "better".I think an audience enhances what we can do in general, which includes the capability to construct better things than without one.
Based on this, I think that we can get any effect we want without an audience, it's just that an audience build allows us to remove drawbacks by telling reality to go fuck itself. A power-hungry build gets an infinite reactor, armor that'd normally be too heavy gets impossibly light materials, not having materials isn't an issue, etc. So I'd expect that a no-audience lesser-Aten or lesser-Lightener or lesser-Skybreaker would require fuel, or a no-audience lesser-Titanian would require strength augmentation and the warclocks' flight would be louder and messier.Most of that is due to how Skybreaker was made. A pliable audience doesn't let you make more advanced technology, but it does let you permanently tweak certain properties of your creation. In the case of your power generation, fuel that can eternally burn without being burned (used).You know, if we're going for a flying machine, we should power it with an Aether engine, like what Skybreaker uses. Seeing as that thing's damn close to being a perpetual motion machine.
I guess. Since we're specifically talking the merits of Prometheus' Gift, though, I think that I have to point at the defensive module. It's ludicrously effective when joined to Skybreaker, and adding a limitless power source cranks its non-ferrous magnetism effect up to insane levels as well. Building a version of it to defend a lesser-Aten should be quite effective.Except this bit: Also, most of our tools do need that durability. Transport always benefits massively from defense and we tend to be in a terrible situation if it's destroyed. And we don't want tools exploding when something hits them.