OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Looks like I'm finally going to find out if I was right about the fifth sign options being research/utility related.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- The Middle of the Howling Wilderness
What did we actually take for the 4th sign? Death Star?
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Yeah. That came as an outlier with 2 augmentation other people options after taking Consolidate Power
Lies the Crown
Rihaku
The Internet
Lies the Crown
What was the Fifth Sign of the Empyrean unlocked at the cost of so much treasure?
[ ] Fifth Sign: Procrustean Valor [Noonday Sky] - In uniformity, is fungibility. In uniformity, is cohesion. In uniformity, is order.
In uniformity, is strength.
Before the glance of Noon, each photon is equally swift and equally purposeless. So too with those that crawl beneath, not swift but purposeless still. Concern yourself not with the harshness of the sun at your back; look forward at what its illumination reveals!
Casting time: Passive
Activation speed: Thought
Duration: Permanent, Special
Cooldown: None
Reagent: Health
At any time the wielder of this Sign may activate its effects to copy over one Attribute of their enemy during a contest in which that Attribute is highly relevant. Only contests with substantial stakes may qualify, with about the same degree of freedom as defined by the Ring Hunger.
The character suffers physical damage proportional to the difference in final values between their Attribute and their opponent's. One Attribute may be copied per contest, and copying persists for the duration of that contest.
Eligible Attributes include: Might (Str, Con), Agility, Intelligence, Wits, Charisma, Appearance (will also cause wielder to steal their opponent's appearance), Protection, (Effect) Resistance*, and Luck.
*Such as Adorie's resistance to existential diminishment
Ineligible Attributes include: Wisdom (Locked for safety reasons, can be forcibly unlocked but severely not recommended), Manipulation (A fundamental flaw of the Sign; it seems to lack the finesse necessary to even conceive of such a thing)
Only Attributes whose final value is no greater than 1000 +s may be copied over in this manner. Final Attribute values are copied over without being subject to further modifiers. Attributes fade upon completion of the contest in question.
*Equalize in stats, then crush them in Rank!
*Prevent yourself from being speedblitzed as long as you have time to process a single thought!
*Defeat strange outlier-tier enemies with outrageously high Luck, Charisma, etc, should they appear.
*Prevent unfair 'symmetrical' field effects from screwing you over!
*Withstand the colossal Might of enemy Armaments!
*Hunger is mostly immune to the downside, as his massive physical durability, quick regeneration and wound penalty negation make physical damage less relevant. Worst case he can go Second Stage.
[ ] Fifth Sign: As Above [Vast Empyrean] - The most foundational of sorceries wields the most fundamental of principles. That is all.
Required for Tenth Sign: So Below.
Unlocks [ ] Feat: Orb at an identical Arete and picks cost to Feat: Crown. Offers an impressive +.125 Base Rank, which is fully affected by Rank Gain modifiers.
Casting time: 12 hours
Duration: One Spell
Cooldown: 1 year
Reagents: Reagents of value sufficient to acquire the Fifth Sign by the wealth absorption method, or burn .1 Rank.
The caster's next Empyreal Sign is treated as if upgraded when cast. If their Rank would be lower than 10, elevate it to 10 for purposes of the casting. For example, Supreme Enclosure would be cast as Bring to Heel with an Astral Rank of 10. Does not affect Passive Signs.
Halve the Reagent cost of this spell and reduce Casting time to Instantaneous if performed on the summer or winter solstice of the caster's native world, or a world sufficiently similar. The Voyaging Realm qualifies, though winter solstice is far away...
*I probably don't need to advocate for this option, given the ludicrous power and versatility it represents.
*Mind the costs, though. And the cooldown...
*Somewhat synergistic with your high +Rank gain % build, though Rank is not easily won in this world.
[ ] Fifth Sign: Armor of Midnight [Evening Sky] - The Cloak of Sky is the heavens and all their intervening vastness unfurled, yet that which was the Shroud of Evening has not forgotten the form of its predecessor. He who dons the Armor of Midnight becomes nigh-invincible to harm or ill, for the aegis of his panoply is as vast and unconquerable as the universal void.
Returns now the Evening Sky - not merely of twilight, but of all darkness, king!
Casting time: 10 minutes
Duration: 8 hours
Cooldown: 1 week
Reagents: If below Rank 11, burn .1 Rank, otherwise burn .01 Rank.
The wielder is nigh-invincible. Treat his Protection as effectively infinite for purposes of defending against any form of harm incapable of destroying the entire universe, otherwise treat his Protection as increased by one thousand. Non-damaging hostile conditions and unwanted esoteric conditions have their impact mitigated by three orders of magnitude or by a degree appropriate to the effect if it had attempted to target all interplanetary space within the entire universe, whichever mitigation is greater. This grants effective Stage II mitigation of all Curses while active. Returns the appearance of the Cloak of Sky to that of the Evening Sky while active; the disguise function of Skyveil may not be used for the duration.
*The Fifth Sign: Taking five Signs of the Evening Sky alone unlocks a moderate (for the Empyreal Signs) bonus, or, you may choose to defer until seven Evening Sky Signs are acquired for a major bonus.
*Rank burn is rough, but this would allow Hunger to tank even the Curse-unique Ultimates of most Armaments without their Shrouds and even some inside their Shrouds.
*Could also be used alongside Refinement of Quickness to intercept cosmically destructive blasts that would otherwise harm those you care about, or simply to project an air of invincibility that cows most opposition, extinguishing the possibility of dissent in their minds.
*More useful, though much more expensive, in truly dangerous situations than Procrustean Valor, though one does need forewarning to set it up. Still, the top end of Procrustean Valor is the Armor's barest minimum...
*The Evening Sky set bonus is fairly good but not worth compromising your build over, if you believe the Armor of Midnight to be a suboptimal pick. The Fifth Sign represents a substantial fraction of your total Sign-related power, and its careful selection should not be overridden for reasons of moderate synergy. The set bonus is roughly equivalent to half the benefit of a Third Sign-level spell.
*A major set bonus could have an impact on every Sign picked before, but who knows how long (if ever?) it will take for Hunger to get all the way to Seven Signs, and all of them Evening Sky
---
[X] Synthesis was the victor last vote, what will be the method?
[ ] Direct Line - With the knowledge now that an Apocryphal-influenced event is on the way, time is of the essence. There is no longer space to experiment with potentially frivolous paths of research. Instead, apply pure power to the question with overwhelming resources and might.
Requires the Fifth Sign of the Vast Empyrean.
Hunger will use As Above, burning .1 Rank, to summon an entity capable of dispensing sufficient quantities of Myth-infused platinum to run Adorie's government and replace all that he consumed. This would not normally be a practical method of addressing the issue, Myth-infused platinum being both highly specific and exceptionally scarce, but sheer weight of ability suffices to scour the field in this instance. This is more than enough to clear Hunger's personal debt and pay Aeira & Aobaru, although spending Rank for mere money is arguably the one of the worst trade deals in history...
*You pay a premium for convenience, but it's important to recognize when advantageous trades aren't a priority.
*A "good enough" solution that resolves the problem and frees up your further time and energy for other pursuits
*Expends your As Above cast for this year, as well as .1 Rank. Costly, but allows Hunger & party to orient totally towards the upcoming Apocryphal proc.
*You still effectively got the 4th Sign and all future uses of the 5th Sign for "free"
*Don't rely on chance, guarantee that you'll resolve this problem! Hunger's sense of honor will not allow him to simply renege on paying Adorie.
*Frees you to retreat from Nilfel, potentially (?) delaying the Apocryphal proc
[ ] Amplification & Distillation - As Gisena noted before, this entire realm is suffused by magic in the form of mythos. Myth-infused platinum merely holds a much higher concentration in a far stabler form. Given that the baseline essence exists elsewhere, it's a straightforward (if neither simple nor easy) matter of either distilling sufficient quantites of mythos from the external environment or amplifying the mythos inherent in objects, then extracting it and infusing it into mundane platinum. How specifically this is to be done is an extremely formidable technical challenge, since the very stuff of myth seems like something that actively opposes corporeal embodiment, much less scientific distillation, proliferation and perfusion. Still, it should hardly be beyond the bounds of Progression itself, or of Gisena's scientific insight. There's always a greater power, after all.
*Hunger & Co will attempt various means to synethesize Mythic platinum, such as by using Aobaru's Vigorflame to smelt and fortify mundane platinum while Gisena & Hunger attempt to infuse it with Myth via the causality-warping effects of their Rings. Perhaps purified findross might serve as an adequate substitute, in which case Gisena merely needs to develop a Grace that can manifest such (not trivial). Perhaps Gisena could turn her attentions to repairing Verschlengorge in the hopes that Shroud Manifestation might be a useful tool for the purpose, even if this isn't even close to Verschlengorge's domain. Maybe they can try chipping off parts of the Walls of Myth for infusion. There are limitless possibilities!
*Success will depend on rolls with a bonus for both existing and novel tactics, as well as for relevant Attributes (General Rank, Int, Wis, Wits and Luck being relevant).
*Degree of success could vary wildly. The primary objective will be a quick & cheap solution that generates enough MYP to tide over Adorie's administration for a few months, though it's potentially possible to come up with a means of creating arbitrary quantities of the stuff.
*Will take time & energy.
[ ] Blood Sorcery [12 Arete] - What Hunger needs now is effectively the inverse of Adorie's bloodline power: an effect that, rather than resisting existential diminishment, actively refines the essence of a material or person. This would normally be impossible to derive from current materials, but the power of the Blood Ring is not so easily denied, especially at such cosmically relevant Ranks as Hunger occupies by virtue of the Crimson Flare. Hunger can manifest a Blood Domain effect that allows him to directly invert the bloodline powers of another, even, to a degree, when this would result in elevation far beyond the target's station. It'll require a hero's determination and a virtuoso's finesse, but who would expect the Realm of Myth to demand anything less?
*Unlocked by generating sufficient tactics last pick
*This will definitely work, and will generate 2 picks. But can you afford the Arete cost at this juncture?
*Adorie will be able to generate Myth-infused versions of any object given a mundane version of that object. She can also slowly elevate a character's Rank over time, though the benefits of this ability are negligable for someone of Hunger's already high Rank.
*Requires Hunger's complete attention to buff the target safely, and is somewhat exhausting for Adorie to use, but that reduces the problem to a simple matter of keeping up Adorie's strength.
*After she deals with the current budget shortfall, Adorie will be able to mass produce mythic platinum for the Cloak's consumption whenever Hunger is able to visit her in person. Could lead to further "free" breakthroughs in the Empyreal Signs.
*Hunger can use this technique on other characters with bloodline abilities, including Surgecrafters, allowing him to either instantly neutralize most Surgecrafters with a modicum of effort, or spectacularly augment certain Surgecrafters with intense concentration.
[ ] Complete Overkill (Requires Daylian or Haeliel) - Have your sponsor intervene to resolve this problem for you. Daylian's geokinesis can summon enormous quantities of Lazulite, which by its own ineffable nature can assume a variety of functions, including the replication of a substance functionally similar to mythic platinum for purposes of the prosperity technique. Haeliel can directly intervene to guarantee Nilfel's outrageous and ever-increasing abundance for ever, or empower Aobaru to the degree that Vigorflame could smelt Mythic platinum into being through sheer supernal veracity. Of course, these options have costs and risks in their own right.
---
The update is currently planned for either tomorrow or Saturday. If you wish to select Haeliel (Basic) as your sponsor, you'll need at least 50 Arete at that point.
What was the Fifth Sign of the Empyrean unlocked at the cost of so much treasure?
[ ] Fifth Sign: Procrustean Valor [Noonday Sky] - In uniformity, is fungibility. In uniformity, is cohesion. In uniformity, is order.
In uniformity, is strength.
Before the glance of Noon, each photon is equally swift and equally purposeless. So too with those that crawl beneath, not swift but purposeless still. Concern yourself not with the harshness of the sun at your back; look forward at what its illumination reveals!
Casting time: Passive
Activation speed: Thought
Duration: Permanent, Special
Cooldown: None
Reagent: Health
At any time the wielder of this Sign may activate its effects to copy over one Attribute of their enemy during a contest in which that Attribute is highly relevant. Only contests with substantial stakes may qualify, with about the same degree of freedom as defined by the Ring Hunger.
The character suffers physical damage proportional to the difference in final values between their Attribute and their opponent's. One Attribute may be copied per contest, and copying persists for the duration of that contest.
Eligible Attributes include: Might (Str, Con), Agility, Intelligence, Wits, Charisma, Appearance (will also cause wielder to steal their opponent's appearance), Protection, (Effect) Resistance*, and Luck.
*Such as Adorie's resistance to existential diminishment
Ineligible Attributes include: Wisdom (Locked for safety reasons, can be forcibly unlocked but severely not recommended), Manipulation (A fundamental flaw of the Sign; it seems to lack the finesse necessary to even conceive of such a thing)
Only Attributes whose final value is no greater than 1000 +s may be copied over in this manner. Final Attribute values are copied over without being subject to further modifiers. Attributes fade upon completion of the contest in question.
*Equalize in stats, then crush them in Rank!
*Prevent yourself from being speedblitzed as long as you have time to process a single thought!
*Defeat strange outlier-tier enemies with outrageously high Luck, Charisma, etc, should they appear.
*Prevent unfair 'symmetrical' field effects from screwing you over!
*Withstand the colossal Might of enemy Armaments!
*Hunger is mostly immune to the downside, as his massive physical durability, quick regeneration and wound penalty negation make physical damage less relevant. Worst case he can go Second Stage.
[ ] Fifth Sign: As Above [Vast Empyrean] - The most foundational of sorceries wields the most fundamental of principles. That is all.
Required for Tenth Sign: So Below.
Unlocks [ ] Feat: Orb at an identical Arete and picks cost to Feat: Crown. Offers an impressive +.125 Base Rank, which is fully affected by Rank Gain modifiers.
Casting time: 12 hours
Duration: One Spell
Cooldown: 1 year
Reagents: Reagents of value sufficient to acquire the Fifth Sign by the wealth absorption method, or burn .1 Rank.
The caster's next Empyreal Sign is treated as if upgraded when cast. If their Rank would be lower than 10, elevate it to 10 for purposes of the casting. For example, Supreme Enclosure would be cast as Bring to Heel with an Astral Rank of 10. Does not affect Passive Signs.
Halve the Reagent cost of this spell and reduce Casting time to Instantaneous if performed on the summer or winter solstice of the caster's native world, or a world sufficiently similar. The Voyaging Realm qualifies, though winter solstice is far away...
*I probably don't need to advocate for this option, given the ludicrous power and versatility it represents.
*Mind the costs, though. And the cooldown...
*Somewhat synergistic with your high +Rank gain % build, though Rank is not easily won in this world.
[ ] Fifth Sign: Armor of Midnight [Evening Sky] - The Cloak of Sky is the heavens and all their intervening vastness unfurled, yet that which was the Shroud of Evening has not forgotten the form of its predecessor. He who dons the Armor of Midnight becomes nigh-invincible to harm or ill, for the aegis of his panoply is as vast and unconquerable as the universal void.
Returns now the Evening Sky - not merely of twilight, but of all darkness, king!
Casting time: 10 minutes
Duration: 8 hours
Cooldown: 1 week
Reagents: If below Rank 11, burn .1 Rank, otherwise burn .01 Rank.
The wielder is nigh-invincible. Treat his Protection as effectively infinite for purposes of defending against any form of harm incapable of destroying the entire universe, otherwise treat his Protection as increased by one thousand. Non-damaging hostile conditions and unwanted esoteric conditions have their impact mitigated by three orders of magnitude or by a degree appropriate to the effect if it had attempted to target all interplanetary space within the entire universe, whichever mitigation is greater. This grants effective Stage II mitigation of all Curses while active. Returns the appearance of the Cloak of Sky to that of the Evening Sky while active; the disguise function of Skyveil may not be used for the duration.
*The Fifth Sign: Taking five Signs of the Evening Sky alone unlocks a moderate (for the Empyreal Signs) bonus, or, you may choose to defer until seven Evening Sky Signs are acquired for a major bonus.
*Rank burn is rough, but this would allow Hunger to tank even the Curse-unique Ultimates of most Armaments without their Shrouds and even some inside their Shrouds.
*Could also be used alongside Refinement of Quickness to intercept cosmically destructive blasts that would otherwise harm those you care about, or simply to project an air of invincibility that cows most opposition, extinguishing the possibility of dissent in their minds.
*More useful, though much more expensive, in truly dangerous situations than Procrustean Valor, though one does need forewarning to set it up. Still, the top end of Procrustean Valor is the Armor's barest minimum...
*The Evening Sky set bonus is fairly good but not worth compromising your build over, if you believe the Armor of Midnight to be a suboptimal pick. The Fifth Sign represents a substantial fraction of your total Sign-related power, and its careful selection should not be overridden for reasons of moderate synergy. The set bonus is roughly equivalent to half the benefit of a Third Sign-level spell.
*A major set bonus could have an impact on every Sign picked before, but who knows how long (if ever?) it will take for Hunger to get all the way to Seven Signs, and all of them Evening Sky
---
[X] Synthesis was the victor last vote, what will be the method?
[ ] Direct Line - With the knowledge now that an Apocryphal-influenced event is on the way, time is of the essence. There is no longer space to experiment with potentially frivolous paths of research. Instead, apply pure power to the question with overwhelming resources and might.
Requires the Fifth Sign of the Vast Empyrean.
Hunger will use As Above, burning .1 Rank, to summon an entity capable of dispensing sufficient quantities of Myth-infused platinum to run Adorie's government and replace all that he consumed. This would not normally be a practical method of addressing the issue, Myth-infused platinum being both highly specific and exceptionally scarce, but sheer weight of ability suffices to scour the field in this instance. This is more than enough to clear Hunger's personal debt and pay Aeira & Aobaru, although spending Rank for mere money is arguably the one of the worst trade deals in history...
*You pay a premium for convenience, but it's important to recognize when advantageous trades aren't a priority.
*A "good enough" solution that resolves the problem and frees up your further time and energy for other pursuits
*Expends your As Above cast for this year, as well as .1 Rank. Costly, but allows Hunger & party to orient totally towards the upcoming Apocryphal proc.
*You still effectively got the 4th Sign and all future uses of the 5th Sign for "free"
*Don't rely on chance, guarantee that you'll resolve this problem! Hunger's sense of honor will not allow him to simply renege on paying Adorie.
*Frees you to retreat from Nilfel, potentially (?) delaying the Apocryphal proc
[ ] Amplification & Distillation - As Gisena noted before, this entire realm is suffused by magic in the form of mythos. Myth-infused platinum merely holds a much higher concentration in a far stabler form. Given that the baseline essence exists elsewhere, it's a straightforward (if neither simple nor easy) matter of either distilling sufficient quantites of mythos from the external environment or amplifying the mythos inherent in objects, then extracting it and infusing it into mundane platinum. How specifically this is to be done is an extremely formidable technical challenge, since the very stuff of myth seems like something that actively opposes corporeal embodiment, much less scientific distillation, proliferation and perfusion. Still, it should hardly be beyond the bounds of Progression itself, or of Gisena's scientific insight. There's always a greater power, after all.
*Hunger & Co will attempt various means to synethesize Mythic platinum, such as by using Aobaru's Vigorflame to smelt and fortify mundane platinum while Gisena & Hunger attempt to infuse it with Myth via the causality-warping effects of their Rings. Perhaps purified findross might serve as an adequate substitute, in which case Gisena merely needs to develop a Grace that can manifest such (not trivial). Perhaps Gisena could turn her attentions to repairing Verschlengorge in the hopes that Shroud Manifestation might be a useful tool for the purpose, even if this isn't even close to Verschlengorge's domain. Maybe they can try chipping off parts of the Walls of Myth for infusion. There are limitless possibilities!
*Success will depend on rolls with a bonus for both existing and novel tactics, as well as for relevant Attributes (General Rank, Int, Wis, Wits and Luck being relevant).
*Degree of success could vary wildly. The primary objective will be a quick & cheap solution that generates enough MYP to tide over Adorie's administration for a few months, though it's potentially possible to come up with a means of creating arbitrary quantities of the stuff.
*Will take time & energy.
[ ] Blood Sorcery [12 Arete] - What Hunger needs now is effectively the inverse of Adorie's bloodline power: an effect that, rather than resisting existential diminishment, actively refines the essence of a material or person. This would normally be impossible to derive from current materials, but the power of the Blood Ring is not so easily denied, especially at such cosmically relevant Ranks as Hunger occupies by virtue of the Crimson Flare. Hunger can manifest a Blood Domain effect that allows him to directly invert the bloodline powers of another, even, to a degree, when this would result in elevation far beyond the target's station. It'll require a hero's determination and a virtuoso's finesse, but who would expect the Realm of Myth to demand anything less?
*Unlocked by generating sufficient tactics last pick
*This will definitely work, and will generate 2 picks. But can you afford the Arete cost at this juncture?
*Adorie will be able to generate Myth-infused versions of any object given a mundane version of that object. She can also slowly elevate a character's Rank over time, though the benefits of this ability are negligable for someone of Hunger's already high Rank.
*Requires Hunger's complete attention to buff the target safely, and is somewhat exhausting for Adorie to use, but that reduces the problem to a simple matter of keeping up Adorie's strength.
*After she deals with the current budget shortfall, Adorie will be able to mass produce mythic platinum for the Cloak's consumption whenever Hunger is able to visit her in person. Could lead to further "free" breakthroughs in the Empyreal Signs.
*Hunger can use this technique on other characters with bloodline abilities, including Surgecrafters, allowing him to either instantly neutralize most Surgecrafters with a modicum of effort, or spectacularly augment certain Surgecrafters with intense concentration.
[ ] Complete Overkill (Requires Daylian or Haeliel) - Have your sponsor intervene to resolve this problem for you. Daylian's geokinesis can summon enormous quantities of Lazulite, which by its own ineffable nature can assume a variety of functions, including the replication of a substance functionally similar to mythic platinum for purposes of the prosperity technique. Haeliel can directly intervene to guarantee Nilfel's outrageous and ever-increasing abundance for ever, or empower Aobaru to the degree that Vigorflame could smelt Mythic platinum into being through sheer supernal veracity. Of course, these options have costs and risks in their own right.
---
The update is currently planned for either tomorrow or Saturday. If you wish to select Haeliel (Basic) as your sponsor, you'll need at least 50 Arete at that point.
Last edited:
Aabcehmu
Confusion as a Natural State of Being
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Pronouns
- Any/All
[X] Fifth Sign: As Above [Vast Empyrean]
As cool as having both the laser and armor, and getting either the minor bonus now or the major bonus two signs down the line,being able to upgrade our spells is just too much to miss, plus it unlocks Feat: Orb, which helps us complete our Feat Trinity.
[X] Blood Sorcery
As cool as having both the laser and armor, and getting either the minor bonus now or the major bonus two signs down the line,being able to upgrade our spells is just too much to miss, plus it unlocks Feat: Orb, which helps us complete our Feat Trinity.
[X] Blood Sorcery
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
@ Everybody: Don't forget to repeat your vote for which Sponsor we take! Otherwise the tally won't remember who you voted for.
I am really impressed at the way Rihaku has elevated currency from something we laughed about when paying Aobaru & Aeira wages greater than a year's salary. Now we're handling Mythic Platinum as a source power that can be renewably generated.
If we give Nilfel a way to generate arbitrary amounts of Mythic Platinum, we will be able to negotiate freely with any summoned Astral Beings.
If we give Nilfel a way to generate arbitrary amounts of Mythic Platinum, we will be able to enjoy a steady trickle of new Empyrean Signs while focusing on Ring or Praxis advancements instead.
The value of Daylian's Cosmic-Tier geomancy is a lot higher than I expected. I hope we get to Haeliel but Daylian + Blood would be a neat combination too
I am really impressed at the way Rihaku has elevated currency from something we laughed about when paying Aobaru & Aeira wages greater than a year's salary. Now we're handling Mythic Platinum as a source power that can be renewably generated.
If we give Nilfel a way to generate arbitrary amounts of Mythic Platinum, we will be able to negotiate freely with any summoned Astral Beings.
If we give Nilfel a way to generate arbitrary amounts of Mythic Platinum, we will be able to enjoy a steady trickle of new Empyrean Signs while focusing on Ring or Praxis advancements instead.
The value of Daylian's Cosmic-Tier geomancy is a lot higher than I expected. I hope we get to Haeliel but Daylian + Blood would be a neat combination too
- Location
- US
Oh, so the set bonus for having Five signs of the same type doesn't seem to be that spectacular. Probably something we can miss out on, then.
But then again, a Major Set Bonus? That sounds like a really big deal. On the other hand, when will we reach that? I think that'd probably benefit from Blood Sorcery since it has the potential for future signs, but I'd prefer Haeliel to Blood Sorcery, TBH.
And there's one more Special Advancement that I've been anticipating which I consider to be greater. Crown, Scepter and Orb. The Second Trinity, which is the second step towards the Nonity.
[X] Fifth Sign: As Above [Vast Empyrean]
[X] Direct Line
[X] The Seraph of Heroism, Haeliel [Basic, 50 Arete]
Tyrant_Rayne
Probably Not Evil… Maybe
- Location
- Canada
Well then this changes things a bit. Blood sorcery is definitely the best option but the cost is pretty steep. We do still need to get fisher king so that's another 12 arete on top of what we are spending on our sponsor. For now I'm going to switch to Wolber. Unless we can somehow generate up to 70 Arete I'm not switching back to Haeliel. As for the 5th sign they're all good and I don't really have a preference. So I'll just vote for evening sky synergy until I hear some convincing arguments.
[X] Wolber Strobe [Committed, 12 Arete]
[X] Blood Sorcery
[X] Fifth Sign: Armor of Midnight [Evening Sky]
[X] Wolber Strobe [Committed, 12 Arete]
[X] Blood Sorcery
[X] Fifth Sign: Armor of Midnight [Evening Sky]
Rihaku
The Internet
There's something to be said for Complete Overkill as well...
- Location
- The Middle of the Howling Wilderness
I think there's considerable Blood Sorcery + As Above synergy, since the former generates the currency we need to mitigate the rank cost of the later, so if you're voting Blood Sorcery, As Above is a good sign choice!
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
what if you could have both?
There is a large contingent that has been worried about the pick drought, but Blood Sorcery grants picks!
If you're worried about cost, you might want to consider Daylian instead. Assuming we can't afford Haeliel, we'd be at 48 Arete. Subtracting 12 for Wolber, 12 for Blood Sorcery, and 12 for Fisher King puts any EFB unlocked during the Realm of Evening out of reach. (The Arete doubling bonus only lasts until Halloween, after all.) Saving 5 Arete by voting for Daylian + Blood Sorcery + Fisher King gives us 19 Arete going into the Realm, which is within striking distance of an EFB even without a doubling effect.
If we can afford Haeliel, I think it's unlikely that the thread will pick Blood Sorcery over a True Wish against the effects of an Apocryphal proc. I'd probably support your effort to make it happen, though!
[X] The Seraph of Heroism, Haeliel [Basic, 50 Arete]
[X] Fifth Sign: As Above [Vast Empyrean]
[X] Blood Sorcery
I'll still go with Haeliel if only because she will ensure we don't lose anything precious like companions or artifacts against the boosted Apocryphal.
[X] Fifth Sign: As Above [Vast Empyrean]
[X] Blood Sorcery
I'll still go with Haeliel if only because she will ensure we don't lose anything precious like companions or artifacts against the boosted Apocryphal.
Tyrant_Rayne
Probably Not Evil… Maybe
- Location
- Canada
That is tempting but Blood Sorcery also helps us unlock more "free" signs and actually makes getting the 7th Sign synergy bonus viable.
- Location
- US
If I could have both, I'd pick both, ofc.
Hmm. With Arete doubling, that may not be unfeasible. We're close to 50 Arete if not there already, so we'd need to generate 12 more, which is 6 in a month without doubling. Should be possible.
It's less Arete than we generated last update, that's for sure. We generated like 20+ back then.
[X] The Seraph of Heroism, Haeliel [Basic, 50 Arete]
[X] Fifth Sign: As Above [Vast Empyrean]
[X] Blood Sorcery
Tyrant_Rayne
Probably Not Evil… Maybe
- Location
- Canada
My most desired EFB is Ruling Ring which is only 18 Arete which is definitely doable. I think most other people want it as well considering the pick drought.
- Location
- Pindorama
[X] The Seraph of Heroism, Haeliel [Basic, 50 Arete]
[X] Amplification & Distillation
[X] Fifth Sign: Armor of Midnight [Evening Sky]
What can I say, I'm feeling lucky. I think we don't need to burn Rank nor give up on Haliel to solve this problem; we can do thins with our own methods. And with this, we'd still have a cool set bonus! What's not to like?
[X] Amplification & Distillation
[X] Fifth Sign: Armor of Midnight [Evening Sky]
What can I say, I'm feeling lucky. I think we don't need to burn Rank nor give up on Haliel to solve this problem; we can do thins with our own methods. And with this, we'd still have a cool set bonus! What's not to like?
- Location
- The Middle of the Howling Wilderness
Alright, lets talk about Signs
Armor
Armor
- You know it, you love it, you won't pick it because it's super fucking awkward to actually use
- There's a lot to be said about virtual invincibility
- Like, seriously, even Armament going all out is not enough depending on Armament. That's a lot of power
- But, again, it's very annoying to use and we did already get combat option
- It does continue working on set bonus, which is always a plus
- My least favorite, for now
- No hidden costs or stuff, it just works
- It does have cost in HP, but our build lets us ignore that completely, making it essentially free in anything that generates picks
- Our high powerlevel low stats build can generate a lot of value out of this. At our level we should getting tons of stats from virtually any opponent, which is always helpful
- Rank-agnostic
- We have a lot of stuff that can make use of stats. Ruin, Holy Shit, Quickening etc all drastically improve with getting 500 of relevant stat, and everything is then buffed by Rank. Also has great synergy with +ish stuff such as OaF II
- It's passive and context dependent. Sometimes it does well, sometimes it doesn't do shit. Presumably this would make it easy for Apo to work around it
- Still very strong option although it does have fatal flaw - it's not As Above
- Man, this makes me sad we didn't get Claim for infinite stats Gisena. Alas, such us power of hindsight
- Speaking of which, this does effectively improve any permanent effect spell to upgraded version for free. Might have great value with some future votes
- Casting time is super yikes, but it should benefit from Pillars time, reducing it to seven months. Not spamable but any means, but it's still almost double value
- While its cost is pretty annoying right now, we should get to the point where we can pay it easily in due time
- Unlocks Feat: Orb, which grants nice Rank and continues to work towards new Trinity. Also unlocks special 10th Sign, which would hopefully be as good
- Value of boosted Enclosure is obvious with this choice alone, as it's pretty much "summon your way out of jail" card. Likewise, boosted Deathly Star sounds like a good way to deal with an Armament
- Doesn't offer general combat ability other two do, but we did pick Deathly Star specifically so we can be greedier here, and man does this have good long term value