But the scaling isn't perfect. Apo went, "I'll power up this Ber guy and he'll be a problem for Hunger." And then Hunger wrecked him because Hunger had powered up faster than Apo expected. If Apo decides now, "I better throw a super Armament at Hunger." And then in between the Armament setting out and reaching us Hunger burns himself down to be way weaker, that could be a problem.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
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- Original
That is the risk of the Apocryphal Curse. Rihaku warned us that this thing is hard mode in curse form and that there is a decent chance it will do us in. The challenges are scaled to us perfectly (or at the very least has a grace period for us to power up) and their is always a solution (run away from Lucenthorne or access the Fairbright Bloodline, power up faster than Ber, etc.). The problem is that the margin for error is unforgiving and the price of failure is steep and can lead to a death spiral where we accumulate conditions and enemies, lose allies and power, all the while more Apocryphal procs keep coming to spice things up even more.
Better get Mitigation fast and as soon as possible.
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Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think we're basically capped out on Apocryphal Mitigation at this point, aside from Elixir. We've genuinely got a fuckload, especially considering we've only been in this world for like a month and a bit. I don't think we'd be able to get much higher than our current level, at least not in the form of direct mitigation. I guess we could start using civs as ablative armour, try offload some onto Aobaru or stack a whole bunch of +ISH to get to Stage 3 as quickly as we can.
Did we though? Like, we were told that Stage 2 is universal tier effects - but we already have access to those with fifth Empyrean Sign. With enough ISH it's eminently possible that we would get to next Stage soon enough, especially with Gisena being as good at mitigation as she is.
Hmm, I wonder if, after infinite time and so on, Gisena would manage to mitigate Accursed's own Curses. That would be something. Although both her Maidenhood and ghetto Retinue are too ISH limited for that..
I think at this point the best low hanging fruit of indirect mitigation methods is probably ruling ring, as the enhanced beneficial reality manipulation+increased progression combo was called out as somewhat effective at countering the Apocryphal's hostile reality manipulation/base rate threat level increase.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That's definitely worth considering. Moreover, considering how the Foremost apparently have plentiful access to tier 2 power, it's possible that Gisena's Progression might be able to push it into tier 3 in some way, especially if we get some +ISH buffs for her. While some people might balk at getting more buffs, being able to empower the infinite utility of Gisena's Total Quintessence might be worth it, especially once she develops some divination. It would be so nice to not be running face first into danger all the time.
Yeah, Ruling Ring is just below Pillars on my priority list. Between ++Progression being very powerful during timeskips and the ability to apply our Rank on a level superior to Chief-Dominion across all domains is just too good. ++All Stats isn't bad either, if only for the extra mental abilities.
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Any preferences on what Gisena should be doing if we ever catch wind of that magic creature, 'spare time?'
Whether through a Grace or Artifice, I think it would behoove us to have Gisena able to scry at the level of, if not the Astral we bought, Augustine. The way Gisena can abuse even a small sample of information makes me think that developing her in the arena of information gathering would be a healthy place to start her research.
More power is sort of an unending highway, whereas getting this capability online would at least have a plausible end goal attached to it when the research begins.
Whether through a Grace or Artifice, I think it would behoove us to have Gisena able to scry at the level of, if not the Astral we bought, Augustine. The way Gisena can abuse even a small sample of information makes me think that developing her in the arena of information gathering would be a healthy place to start her research.
More power is sort of an unending highway, whereas getting this capability online would at least have a plausible end goal attached to it when the research begins.
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Having her learn divination Graces isn't a bad idea. From the previous quest we know they exist and can reach quite far into the future, plus the Ring of Truth already possesses significant divinatory capabilities. We often find ourselves blindsided by new threats, so it would be nice to learn of them beforehand, even if the worst one (hostile Cursebearer) is going to be immune.
Perhaps she could combine those capabilities and beging to approach the heights of synergy Hunger has.
Perhaps she could combine those capabilities and beging to approach the heights of synergy Hunger has.
It depends on what we want to prioritize. On the one hand, she could provide us some general utility we lack - prescience, yes, and other kinds of info gathering, but also hammerspace storage, resurrection, memory manipulation and so on. This would round up our party's abilities and make it so Hunger doesn't need to waste his time developing such abilities.
On the other hand, she could focus on Graces that would buff Hunger, both via direct buffs such as temporal acceleration or bestowing precognition on us and via indirect means such us ability to give us extra training or Graces that help us deal with our Curses.
Somewhat more specific, some Grace that stacks with Adorie's buff and decreases amount of Exhaustion generated by Praxis would be nice. Something that makes use of Rank or Blood Casting would have a lot of value. Grace which would let her help us negotiate with Enclosure summons would be very useful. Anything that buffs our ISH would be amazing.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We should also look into some method of awakening her Astral Rank. Artifice is one of the most efficient methods of translating Rank into utility and given the update and the nature of Builder magic, there's a decent chance of it applying to the Graces she accesses through True Quintessence, which could result in some truly hilarious synergy if we give her the chance. The power of both Truth and Time as divinatory and support tools are obvious as well and might get even wilder if she could use them in conjunction with Graces. Seram's Accelerate is only scratching the surface of what's possible there. The fact that Pressure can possibly manipulate findross is even more important and the instincts it would grant her might improve her training speed even further.
What an amazing Advancement. I'm really looking forward to her ecstatic reactions at being able to use all the magic.
I don't think so. Silver seems like tier 3 and it can mitigate Tyrant whereas True Nullity can't at its base level.
What an amazing Advancement. I'm really looking forward to her ecstatic reactions at being able to use all the magic.
I don't think so. Silver seems like tier 3 and it can mitigate Tyrant whereas True Nullity can't at its base level.
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Well, we know that some graces are able to resurrect the dead, so that would be a potentially very powerful ability to develop.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Did Rihaku actually say either way on whether True Nullity can mitigate Tyrant? It's the equivalent of a 25-Arete advancement, after all.
Methinks healing and resurrection should stay Hunger's thing. That's a big part of Edeldross' (and presumably Elixir's) themes after all.
I get the sentiment, but I would just as well develop this sort of effect in tandem with her. Cross healing and having more redundancy with resurrections isn't something I could argue against.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That's my read on the following at least:
Byzantine said:
Agreed. Resurrection is just too vital for thematic concerns to hold.
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It's not just thematic concerns. There are countless things that are going to occupy her time, so creating too much overlap with abilities someone else is better suited to just isn't efficient. Though the point is moot if she's going to be the one developing Hunger's Graces anyway...
It's matter of value - if Gisena can accomplish with time and effort what we'd need Arete for, then let her do it instead, and focus on boosting our ISH/anti-Master prospects. Just as she shouldn't be developing healing Graces when we already have Crimson Flare up and running.
That aside, Gisena would benefit massively from Pillars too. Something to consider, for sure. Also, I'm hoping that getting Ruling Ring would let us boost Azure in some way, maybe let us unlock her Time domain. Since she doesn't have annoying Curses, combination of Time, Artifice and Graces should be absurdly broken.
In general I definitely agree, If Hunger spontaneously via Arete develops a resurrection I certainly wouldn't rush Gisenas, but if it was a matter of days for her to replicate I think it would be worth the time if the chance presented itself... was my first inclination anyway
Thinking about it a bit more, if something is killing Hunger are we already at the point of people slaying us beyond the possibility of resurrection more often then not? I'm not sure how great the effect is in Rihaku quest at this stage.
We do actually have "perfect" resurrection effects such as Dead but Dreaming, Sword in the Stone and Companions of the King. They all have massive drawbacks, but from narrative standpoint, they offer a way for Rihaku to kill us without ending the quest.
They are also EFBs. We also have Second Form, which we've used number of times already. Damn, Forebear sure was a fan of Not Dying. Perhaps that's also a lesson of Forebear?
But yeah, we are not really getting resurrection for ourselves but others. Moral dilemmas get much easier when you can ress people. Plus, that and rejuvenation(making folks young again) are always an excellent bargain chip.
Rihaku
The Internet
Update in 10-20.
[ ] Elder Sign [12 Arete, 1 pick] - The runes of Augustine and the Signs of the Empyreal. Both are a means of power through order, the synchronous arrangement of symbolic representations calling upon the principle: as above, so below. Absorb a fraction of her mystical prowess and empower the primordial sorceries of the Cloak, granting immense ability, though circumscribed by numerical logic. She who chose the left-handed path finds in her vanquisher a distaff reflection.
Each odd-numbered level of the Empyreal Signs, including existing Signs, receives the following benefits -
*The Sign is doubled in effective potency. Nightmare Flight can be used twice per day, Supreme Enclosure can maintain two conjurations simultaneously, etc. This stacks naturally with any Upgraded Signs you have.
*Use of the Sign always counts as a military matter for purposes of Once and Future. This is currently most relevant for Supreme Enclosure, allowing Hunger to summon entities of Rank 9 - though be warned, their Attributes once manifested may be too overwhelming to bring to heel.
*Negates the penalty of the Ring Hunger for purposes of researching the Sign. Hunger can now contribute to research without an efficiency penalty, at least for certain Signs.
[ ] Elder Sign [12 Arete, 1 pick] - The runes of Augustine and the Signs of the Empyreal. Both are a means of power through order, the synchronous arrangement of symbolic representations calling upon the principle: as above, so below. Absorb a fraction of her mystical prowess and empower the primordial sorceries of the Cloak, granting immense ability, though circumscribed by numerical logic. She who chose the left-handed path finds in her vanquisher a distaff reflection.
Each odd-numbered level of the Empyreal Signs, including existing Signs, receives the following benefits -
*The Sign is doubled in effective potency. Nightmare Flight can be used twice per day, Supreme Enclosure can maintain two conjurations simultaneously, etc. This stacks naturally with any Upgraded Signs you have.
*Use of the Sign always counts as a military matter for purposes of Once and Future. This is currently most relevant for Supreme Enclosure, allowing Hunger to summon entities of Rank 9 - though be warned, their Attributes once manifested may be too overwhelming to bring to heel.
*Negates the penalty of the Ring Hunger for purposes of researching the Sign. Hunger can now contribute to research without an efficiency penalty, at least for certain Signs.
- Location
- Pindorama
Don't start, you foul tempter! It's EFB or bust for me.
