A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
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Spoils of the Tyrant
Rihaku
The Internet
Spoils of the Tyrant
With Augustine defeated and Renaissance Woman achieved, there is a surfeit of Advancements and options to review. Please consider carefully before placing your votes. Grand Nullification has been acquired for all current Curses except for Tyranny, which Gisena has opted not to (or cannot?) mitigate. Please choose the nature of mitigation below:
Indenture - We will delay this option until it becomes relevant
Decimation
[ ] Fisher King - Discounts the completion of Fisher King by 8 Arete and 1 pick. It now only requires 4 Arete and 1 pick to complete. Do not take this as precedent for future Arete:mitigation ratios.
[ ] Artemisinin - Improves Huntress' Moon in the following ways:
*Reduces the median difficulty of Huntress' Moon targets by 20%
*Increases the variety of Huntress' Moon targets by 40%, Hunger will automatically choose from the most palatable options rather than listing them all
*Increases mitigation duration of a successful Huntress' Moon by 100%
[ ] Foremost Blade [12 Arete] - All combat encounters that generate 4 or more picks automatically qualify for Huntress' Moon. It does not matter if you manufacture the encounter via artificial difficulty so long as there is a relevant chance of permanent death or stakes of similar magnitude.
*+2 Accursed Favor
*When mere difficulty can stand in for true sustenance, the path to true mitigation opens.
The Apocryphal Curse
[ ] Direct Mitigation - Reduce the severity of Apocryphal Curse procs by another 10%, stacking linearly with current reductions. A consistent and powerful means of mitigation, though one that offers little respite or downtime. A high-powered Apocryphal proc at the wrong time can still be extremely threatening and easily lethal if not approached with foresight, vigilance, prowess and care.
*Simple, potent and inexpensive. What's not to like?
[ ] Golden Hour - Reduces the frequency of Apocryphal Curse procs by 12.5%, and reduces the average scaling for delayed procs by a similar amount. Thus, the Apocryphal Curse strikes less often and receives less benefit for waiting. However, the inherent danger of procs is not affected, and the Apocryphal Curse is entirely capable of pulling out all the stops for a truly formidable challenge when it so desires.
*Having to deal with fewer total Apocryphal procs is very useful in both timeskips and during adventuring
*That the Apocryphal delay bonus is also reduced means it has less 'incentive' to delay things, potentially granting an indirect reduction in large-scale procs
[ ] Serendipity [12 Arete] - The Apocryphal Curse will occasionally help you out in interesting, though fairly limited ways instead of creating hostile complications. This is rare, no more than one proc in seven. It's not like she likes you or something, stupid!
*+2 Accursed Favor
*Differs from A Promise Kept in that it both negates the hostile Apocryphal Proc and creates a beneficial proc when it occurs, but is also far less consistent in activation
*Incredibly potent, but doesn't weaken hostile Apocryphal procs at all and the benefits are usually not that amazing
*Invest now and reap the benefits later, especially during timeskips!
---
You have defeated Augustine, the Lady Protector and acquired 2 picks. You have slightly over 25 Arete.
[ ] Once and Future II [25 Arete, 2 picks] - A King must conquer. A King must rule. Is there more to the personage of the King? Yes, but that person is not the King. He is merely the entity who holds the title, of King. Separate the human from the role, as the Forebear separated his self from his Blade, and allow both to unfurl like a standard in the wind, unbound by limitation or custom.
Heavy lies the crown, save for he who has the strength to bear it.
The character becomes unable to manifest a Shroud. In exchange, elevate all the character's Attributes and abilities by +0.1 tier along the Infinite Singularity Husk, +0.2 tiers in matters military.
The objective amount of Attributes this Advancement is worth compounds massively as the character's native ISH tier is raised, and stacks with other sources of ISH improvement to offer transcendental improvements to the character's fighting strength.
The enhancement of physical Attributes is quite relevant, but the improvements to military-related Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma and Luck may be even more important.
However this Advancement much resembles [Once and Future] I on its merits - on its own without further ISH elevation it may underwhelm, just as [Once and Future] I relies on high base Rank to effectuate hyper-exponential scaling. The mighty grow ever mightier, is that the lesson of the Forebear?
*Mainlining the Forebear this fast and this hard could have consequences, both positive and negative
*Immense immediate power; flat bonus to a superexponential system grants automatic scaling. The character is a peerless general, swordsman, raider, captain, and all-around exemplar of war.
[ ] Pillars of Creation [25 Arete, 1 pick] - At the end of each lunar month, wearer and companions may steal away to the realm of Evening, during which no time passes in the mortal world. Divine opulence and every conceivable luxury await the fortunate interlopers, restoring wholeness of mind, body, and spirit.
The realm of Evening responds to the desires of the wearer and can be shaped to induce a variety of effects at nigh-deific scale - worthy enemies, fields of unique reagents, anagathic peaches, arms and armor of myth. Only one rule is absolute: that each stay lasts twenty-one days, no more and no less. Items typically cannot be carried out, though the effects of items consumed within the realm remain after departing it.
All Curses save the Geas of Indenture are only at one-third severity within the realm, though this does not stack with other forms of mitigation, nor impede their function outside.
*Duration has been extended by acquiring the Cloak of Sky
[ ] Elder Sign [12 Arete, 1 pick] - The runes of Augustine and the Signs of the Empyreal. Both are a means of power through order, the synchronous arrangement of symbolic representations calling upon the principle: as above, so below. Absorb a fraction of her mystical prowess and empower the primordial sorceries of the Cloak, granting immense ability, though circumscribed by numerical logic. She who chose the left-handed path finds in her vanquisher a distaff reflection.
Each odd-numbered level of the Empyreal Signs, including existing Signs, receives the following benefits -
*The Sign is doubled in effective potency. Nightmare Flight can be used twice per day, Supreme Enclosure can maintain two conjurations simultaneously, etc. This stacks naturally with any Upgraded Signs you have.
*Use of the Sign always counts as a military matter for purposes of Once and Future. This is currently most relevant for Supreme Enclosure, allowing Hunger to summon entities of Rank 9 - though be warned, their Attributes once manifested may be too overwhelming to bring to heel.
*Negates the penalty of the Ring Hunger for purposes of researching the Sign. Hunger can now contribute to research without an efficiency penalty, at least for certain Signs.
[ ] Towards Fisher King [Variable depending on mitigation choices] - You can either contribute 12 Arete, 2 picks towards Fisher King to finish it, or with the Fisher King Decimation Grand Nullification option you can complete it now for only 4 Arete, 1 pick. Remember, Fisher King can replace a requirement for Sword in the Stone, potentially allowing you to write-in Sword in the Stone with enough Arete.
*Get that Accursed Favor early. It's a good window to invest in Advancements with less direct power given your already supernal might.
*Of course, you're still not Armament level yet, but most Armor Prototypes wouldn't stand a chance against Hunger given his military Rank and extreme high-tier Bloodcasting debuffs
*Hour of Reckoning is disgustingly potent
*Sword in the Stone grants a powerful and reliable, if slow, method of self-revivification
*It also makes you a really good King, especially if you already have high Rank
You can also write in if you'd prefer to buy Honing, Iridescence etc. Don't feel compelled to write in a custom vote if you choose to buy one of the one-pick options, Hunger will naturally fill in the blanks with an appropriate Advancement. For example, he might take Exalted Spirit alongside Elder Sign to enhance his effective Intelligence.
With Augustine defeated and Renaissance Woman achieved, there is a surfeit of Advancements and options to review. Please consider carefully before placing your votes. Grand Nullification has been acquired for all current Curses except for Tyranny, which Gisena has opted not to (or cannot?) mitigate. Please choose the nature of mitigation below:
Indenture - We will delay this option until it becomes relevant
Decimation
[ ] Fisher King - Discounts the completion of Fisher King by 8 Arete and 1 pick. It now only requires 4 Arete and 1 pick to complete. Do not take this as precedent for future Arete:mitigation ratios.
[ ] Artemisinin - Improves Huntress' Moon in the following ways:
*Reduces the median difficulty of Huntress' Moon targets by 20%
*Increases the variety of Huntress' Moon targets by 40%, Hunger will automatically choose from the most palatable options rather than listing them all
*Increases mitigation duration of a successful Huntress' Moon by 100%
[ ] Foremost Blade [12 Arete] - All combat encounters that generate 4 or more picks automatically qualify for Huntress' Moon. It does not matter if you manufacture the encounter via artificial difficulty so long as there is a relevant chance of permanent death or stakes of similar magnitude.
*+2 Accursed Favor
*When mere difficulty can stand in for true sustenance, the path to true mitigation opens.
The Apocryphal Curse
[ ] Direct Mitigation - Reduce the severity of Apocryphal Curse procs by another 10%, stacking linearly with current reductions. A consistent and powerful means of mitigation, though one that offers little respite or downtime. A high-powered Apocryphal proc at the wrong time can still be extremely threatening and easily lethal if not approached with foresight, vigilance, prowess and care.
*Simple, potent and inexpensive. What's not to like?
[ ] Golden Hour - Reduces the frequency of Apocryphal Curse procs by 12.5%, and reduces the average scaling for delayed procs by a similar amount. Thus, the Apocryphal Curse strikes less often and receives less benefit for waiting. However, the inherent danger of procs is not affected, and the Apocryphal Curse is entirely capable of pulling out all the stops for a truly formidable challenge when it so desires.
*Having to deal with fewer total Apocryphal procs is very useful in both timeskips and during adventuring
*That the Apocryphal delay bonus is also reduced means it has less 'incentive' to delay things, potentially granting an indirect reduction in large-scale procs
[ ] Serendipity [12 Arete] - The Apocryphal Curse will occasionally help you out in interesting, though fairly limited ways instead of creating hostile complications. This is rare, no more than one proc in seven. It's not like she likes you or something, stupid!
*+2 Accursed Favor
*Differs from A Promise Kept in that it both negates the hostile Apocryphal Proc and creates a beneficial proc when it occurs, but is also far less consistent in activation
*Incredibly potent, but doesn't weaken hostile Apocryphal procs at all and the benefits are usually not that amazing
*Invest now and reap the benefits later, especially during timeskips!
---
You have defeated Augustine, the Lady Protector and acquired 2 picks. You have slightly over 25 Arete.
[ ] Once and Future II [25 Arete, 2 picks] - A King must conquer. A King must rule. Is there more to the personage of the King? Yes, but that person is not the King. He is merely the entity who holds the title, of King. Separate the human from the role, as the Forebear separated his self from his Blade, and allow both to unfurl like a standard in the wind, unbound by limitation or custom.
Heavy lies the crown, save for he who has the strength to bear it.
The character becomes unable to manifest a Shroud. In exchange, elevate all the character's Attributes and abilities by +0.1 tier along the Infinite Singularity Husk, +0.2 tiers in matters military.
The objective amount of Attributes this Advancement is worth compounds massively as the character's native ISH tier is raised, and stacks with other sources of ISH improvement to offer transcendental improvements to the character's fighting strength.
The enhancement of physical Attributes is quite relevant, but the improvements to military-related Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma and Luck may be even more important.
However this Advancement much resembles [Once and Future] I on its merits - on its own without further ISH elevation it may underwhelm, just as [Once and Future] I relies on high base Rank to effectuate hyper-exponential scaling. The mighty grow ever mightier, is that the lesson of the Forebear?
*Mainlining the Forebear this fast and this hard could have consequences, both positive and negative
*Immense immediate power; flat bonus to a superexponential system grants automatic scaling. The character is a peerless general, swordsman, raider, captain, and all-around exemplar of war.
[ ] Pillars of Creation [25 Arete, 1 pick] - At the end of each lunar month, wearer and companions may steal away to the realm of Evening, during which no time passes in the mortal world. Divine opulence and every conceivable luxury await the fortunate interlopers, restoring wholeness of mind, body, and spirit.
The realm of Evening responds to the desires of the wearer and can be shaped to induce a variety of effects at nigh-deific scale - worthy enemies, fields of unique reagents, anagathic peaches, arms and armor of myth. Only one rule is absolute: that each stay lasts twenty-one days, no more and no less. Items typically cannot be carried out, though the effects of items consumed within the realm remain after departing it.
All Curses save the Geas of Indenture are only at one-third severity within the realm, though this does not stack with other forms of mitigation, nor impede their function outside.
*Duration has been extended by acquiring the Cloak of Sky
[ ] Elder Sign [12 Arete, 1 pick] - The runes of Augustine and the Signs of the Empyreal. Both are a means of power through order, the synchronous arrangement of symbolic representations calling upon the principle: as above, so below. Absorb a fraction of her mystical prowess and empower the primordial sorceries of the Cloak, granting immense ability, though circumscribed by numerical logic. She who chose the left-handed path finds in her vanquisher a distaff reflection.
Each odd-numbered level of the Empyreal Signs, including existing Signs, receives the following benefits -
*The Sign is doubled in effective potency. Nightmare Flight can be used twice per day, Supreme Enclosure can maintain two conjurations simultaneously, etc. This stacks naturally with any Upgraded Signs you have.
*Use of the Sign always counts as a military matter for purposes of Once and Future. This is currently most relevant for Supreme Enclosure, allowing Hunger to summon entities of Rank 9 - though be warned, their Attributes once manifested may be too overwhelming to bring to heel.
*Negates the penalty of the Ring Hunger for purposes of researching the Sign. Hunger can now contribute to research without an efficiency penalty, at least for certain Signs.
[ ] Towards Fisher King [Variable depending on mitigation choices] - You can either contribute 12 Arete, 2 picks towards Fisher King to finish it, or with the Fisher King Decimation Grand Nullification option you can complete it now for only 4 Arete, 1 pick. Remember, Fisher King can replace a requirement for Sword in the Stone, potentially allowing you to write-in Sword in the Stone with enough Arete.
*Get that Accursed Favor early. It's a good window to invest in Advancements with less direct power given your already supernal might.
*Of course, you're still not Armament level yet, but most Armor Prototypes wouldn't stand a chance against Hunger given his military Rank and extreme high-tier Bloodcasting debuffs
*Hour of Reckoning is disgustingly potent
*Sword in the Stone grants a powerful and reliable, if slow, method of self-revivification
*It also makes you a really good King, especially if you already have high Rank
You can also write in if you'd prefer to buy Honing, Iridescence etc. Don't feel compelled to write in a custom vote if you choose to buy one of the one-pick options, Hunger will naturally fill in the blanks with an appropriate Advancement. For example, he might take Exalted Spirit alongside Elder Sign to enhance his effective Intelligence.
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Tyrant_Rayne
Probably Not Evil… Maybe
- Location
- Canada
Is apoc tsundere or yandere? I can't tell.
- Location
- US
The original duration was 7 days. This means The Tower Itself tripled the potency of Pillars of Creation.
For that alone, I absolutely don't regret getting Tower. That is an amazingly high boost to the growth amplification of Pillars, and more importantly gives a lot more time to rest for Hunger.
- Location
- NY
Huh. Accursed Favor. That sounds...useful.
- Location
- Earth
Okay, I think we can all at least agree that we need to grab Pillars, right?
I'm still not sure what to do with the first half of the vote yet, but... how do we all feel about prioritizing Pillars, and working on trying to generate the Arete to grab Elder Sign with the other pick as well?
I'm still not sure what to do with the first half of the vote yet, but... how do we all feel about prioritizing Pillars, and working on trying to generate the Arete to grab Elder Sign with the other pick as well?
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
quoted for posterity
Rihaku
The Internet
I'm pretty sure the 21-day version of Pillars is not going to be as productive per day as the 7-day version, so there will be some efficiency loss in training there. And one must take care not to become complacent, as the extra time is still time in which the Apocryphal Curse is active, though only at one-third strength...
That's a lot of good shit.
My immediate, gut reaction is Direct Mitigation for Apocryphal, and Pillars. Undecided on what to do for Decimation though. Artemisinin is class, but the potential to get BOTH Pillars and finish Fisher King in one go is pretty hard to pass up.
May leave it for a bit and see what points greater minds then I can bring up, but once again, that's a lot of good shit.
My immediate, gut reaction is Direct Mitigation for Apocryphal, and Pillars. Undecided on what to do for Decimation though. Artemisinin is class, but the potential to get BOTH Pillars and finish Fisher King in one go is pretty hard to pass up.
May leave it for a bit and see what points greater minds then I can bring up, but once again, that's a lot of good shit.
[X] Pillars of Creation
After stabilizing Nifel and searching for reliable extraction methods, the plan is to get to the Human Sphere. Its a question of if we can get another pick and have the Arete in the bank so we can postpone getting it here and pursuing another of the rare advancements. I'm just saying take it and not have to worry about Decimation targets, lack of picks and assured source of specific powers.
After stabilizing Nifel and searching for reliable extraction methods, the plan is to get to the Human Sphere. Its a question of if we can get another pick and have the Arete in the bank so we can postpone getting it here and pursuing another of the rare advancements. I'm just saying take it and not have to worry about Decimation targets, lack of picks and assured source of specific powers.
- Location
- US
Chilling for Mental Stability does have some value, though, especially considering the back-to-back life and death situations Hunger engages in.
Also, while the productivity/day is lowered, the tripled amount of days likely means the overall gain is still higher, so it should be fine. Besides, we're incredibly starved for picks right now.
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- Location
- Pindorama
Goddamn it, I really want to pick both Foremost Blade and Pillars, and I think we can do it; that's just amazing synergy right there. Just risk our life monthly in the pre-prepared realm and never have to worry about searching for targets again. But I'll see if there's more interest in something like that before committing.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Mmm... want one of these, not Fisher King, unless I've forgotten/underestimated what Fisher King does.
Oooh, I like all of these in very different ways.
Errr... I don't feel entirely ready for this mainlining.
We have been waiting for this SO FUCKING LONG. DO EEET.
Can someone remind me how these three things work?
Fisher King vs Artemisinin is just question of how much you want Pillars to reduce our Decimation.
For me, the answer is "as much as possible", so I'm ready to pay that 8 Arete 1 pick for even better Hunger Sated with Pillars.
Like, you go from base 2 months to base 3 months. That's 50% increase right there. It's pretty good.
For me, the answer is "as much as possible", so I'm ready to pay that 8 Arete 1 pick for even better Hunger Sated with Pillars.
Like, you go from base 2 months to base 3 months. That's 50% increase right there. It's pretty good.
Tyrant_Rayne
Probably Not Evil… Maybe
- Location
- Canada
[X] Artemisinin
[X] Golden Hour
[X] Pillars of Creation
Fisher king getting cheapened is nice but after we actually get it the mitigation doesn't provide any value. Artemisinin has better long term value. Same goes for golden hour. I'd love to get serendipity if possible but pillars is to good to pass up.
[X] Golden Hour
[X] Pillars of Creation
Fisher king getting cheapened is nice but after we actually get it the mitigation doesn't provide any value. Artemisinin has better long term value. Same goes for golden hour. I'd love to get serendipity if possible but pillars is to good to pass up.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
Pillars costs 25 Arete.
Maximum Accursed Favor costs 12 (Foremost Blade) + 12 (Serendipity) + 5 (Fisher King) = 29 more Arete. So, can we generate 29 Arete before wednesday?
Edit: Math was wrong
No, probably not. That's the fundamental lesson of economics: our desires exceed our resources. This will be an interesting debate!
Edit: Math was wrong
No, probably not. That's the fundamental lesson of economics: our desires exceed our resources. This will be an interesting debate!
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- Location
- US
Fisher King doesn't give us Sword in the Stone, BTW. That's a separate EFB that Fisher King is a prereq for.
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
Aw man. I really want this because it's funny, but upgraded Pillars and Elder Sign are too good.
I say we either go Pillars + one pick towards Fisher King OR, if we can pull off 11 Arete before next update (unlikely), Pillars + Elder Sign.