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A Simple Transaction I

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Taka said:
Is this the wrong time to say that I've got zero interest for personal advancements for Hunger that require us going down another skill tree to make use of.

I'd much sooner throw that Gisena's way to give her connect the dots ability more dots to connect with.

It's going to need to be on the level of Cut Through for me to even give it a second read.

Just give me Pillars, let us have some comf after all this harrowing shit, and let Hunger slack off for once in this 2 month slog of his.
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Nah, that's pretty fair. With Graces, sword Praxis, and cloak signs, I think we're pretty full up on advancements that offer future reward for time spent.

I wouldn't mind Pillars, but I'm not sure how long it is till the end of the month. Even if we pick it up I'd contest we should spend a moment to relax now regardless. Hunger probably needs some inspiration to make a properly comfy Pillars world.
 
Unelemental said:
Are we even going to get picks from Augustine? Gisena is the one that dealt with her after acquiring RW, even if we softened her up beforehand.
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I would be surprised if we got nothing at all, the stakes were real, and even if we only got credit for the fight up until the soul hit, I'd find it hard to believe that wasn't worth even a single pick. We can get up to two from non-lethal encounters that are merely dangerous, she was certainly a step above that.

Even if they are advancements more weighted towards Arete, it will probably generate something.
 
Redshirt Army said:
Nah, it works by "last hit gets XP" rules, so we'll just vote on what advancement Gisena buys with her 1/4 of Progression. :V
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I see your laughy-face, but that is a good point.

It was a fade to black at the end though, I suppose this raises a question about the lethality of True Nullity, and if it actually dealt damage to Augustine or if it just completely shut her down for Hunger to cut through.
 
Some thoughts on relaxation/study thrown together from Discord:

With Augustine gone, and knowing Calumgnor was entirely made up, presumably renovations at the Temple/library are canceled. Perhaps now we can go have a look in there, see if there's any valuable information left in the library for Gisena and Hunger to study? Adorie might also have some suggestions for places to check out/study here on the way out.

I'm also thinking if we want Elixir to drop, and if Territorial Waters is still happening, we can head back to the Elixir Kingdom on the way to Voyaging City to deal with that, and have another hot spring/food porn vacation. Since the Decimation is sated, we may not have to drain the springs as hard as we would have needed to for Huntress Moon - just drain it enough to make things safe for the Kingdom. We could also drop off Aeira this way if we wanted to, considering Nightmare Flight limitations, and she could probably be tasked with training/recruiting super-Elementalists while we're gone.

Alternatively for Aeira-dropoff, Adorie (assuming she is staying in the Realm of Myth) could hire Aeira - what better retainer for the last surviving Princess than a ninja who's now basically got Battle Continuation via Shadowcord self-puppetry? We can pick them up again when/if we come back to the VR for Aobaru's Chosen One task.

Lastly, considering we took out the Armament Fish, we could see if maybe we could have a beach episode at one of the coastal civs that we saved from the Fish's thrashing. Hunger could even go fishing, properly!
 
We're told that "Augustine, the Lady Protector, has been slain beyond the possibility of recovery" right after the line about her Advancement. I don't think Hunger was in the best form to do something like that after tanking the hit from Augustine, and "slain beyond the possibility of recovery" sounds more like Gisena's True Nullity anyway rather than any of Hunger's abilities.

And while I hope that whatever governs pick science takes our group's actions as a whole into account when dishing out rewards, fact is that Hunger himself more or less lost to Augustine (fucking Apocrypha, pulling impossible stunts out of its pocket left and right) before Gisena finished her off. He could have done it anyway if he had gone through with the self-sacrifice, but it didn't happen. So the question is whether this counts as surmounting the challenge, and to what extent.
 
Microwave MKII said:
Some thoughts on relaxation/study thrown together from Discord:

With Augustine gone, and knowing Calumgnor was entirely made up, presumably renovations at the Temple/library are canceled. Perhaps now we can go have a look in there, see if there's any valuable information left in the library for Gisena and Hunger to study? Adorie might also have some suggestions for places to check out/study here on the way out.

I'm also thinking if we want Elixir to drop, and if Territorial Waters is still happening, we can head back to the Elixir Kingdom on the way to Voyaging City to deal with that, and have another hot spring/food porn vacation. Since the Decimation is sated, we may not have to drain the springs as hard as we would have needed to for Huntress Moon - just drain it enough to make things safe for the Kingdom. We could also drop off Aeira this way if we wanted to, considering Nightmare Flight limitations, and she could probably be tasked with training/recruiting super-Elementalists while we're gone.

Alternatively for Aeira-dropoff, Adorie (assuming she is staying in the Realm of Myth) could hire Aeira - what better retainer for the last surviving Princess than a ninja who's now basically got Battle Continuation via Shadowcord self-puppetry? We can pick them up again when/if we come back to the VR for Aobaru's Chosen One task.

Lastly, considering we took out the Armament Fish, we could see if maybe we could have a beach episode at one of the coastal civs that we saved from the Fish's thrashing. Hunger could even go fishing, properly!
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I wouldn't be opposed to dropping off Aeira and Adorie together, I'm not sure Aeira can keep up with us, and Adorie is explicitly better for us in an admin role.

Gisena got a boost all by herself, but we may be forced to upgrade Aobaru for the whole chains arc. Letrizia should be able to get a full strength armament again once we hit the HS, so they are all either useful or mandatory.

The other two may be better left to admin duties, and Aeira just needed cash anyway, she got a powerboost from us so she should be pretty happy with how things have gone on both the martial route and the financial.
 
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Unelemental said:
And while I hope that whatever governs pick science takes our group's actions as a whole into account when dishing out rewards, fact is that Hunger himself more or less lost to Augustine (fucking Apocrypha, pulling impossible stunts out of its pocket left and right) before Gisena finished her off. He could have done it anyway if he had gone through with the self-sacrifice, but it didn't happen. So the question is whether this counts as surmounting the challenge, and to what extent.
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Well it was previously said that party members didn't reduce experience gain much, only Rank gain, and Gisena has been the main carry in fights before (Librarian) that still gave a good amount of picks. On the other hand when she nullified the scrub immortals it tanked their pick value. So hard to say exactly how it'll play out here.
 
If we used Philosophers Wreath to get Augustine's magic system could we use Edeldross to fuel it and effectively gain a greatly discounted version of True Quintessence?
 
Thomasfoolery said:
Well it was previously said that party members didn't reduce experience gain much, only Rank gain, and Gisena has been the main carry in fights before (Librarian) that still gave a good amount of picks. On the other hand when she nullified the scrub immortals it tanked their pick value. So hard to say exactly how it'll play out here.
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In the fight where their value got tanked, she nerfed them before we had actually engaged the battle and the stakes were set. In the Librarian fight, the battle had already been engaged and the worth set before she employed her nerf.

Perhaps the difference is timing?
 
So, how many of you would be for letting Aeria stay in Voyaging Realm? I don't particularly care about her even with Arete spent on her; she doesn't seem that useful and dealing with logistics involving her sounds annoying.
Unelemental said:
We're told that "Augustine, the Lady Protector, has been slain beyond the possibility of recovery" right after the line about her Advancement. I don't think Hunger was in the best form to do something like that after tanking the hit from Augustine, and "slain beyond the possibility of recovery" sounds more like Gisena's True Nullity anyway rather than any of Hunger's abilities.

And while I hope that whatever governs pick science takes our group's actions as a whole into account when dishing out rewards, fact is that Hunger himself more or less lost to Augustine (fucking Apocrypha, pulling impossible stunts out of its pocket left and right) before Gisena finished her off. He could have done it anyway if he had gone through with the self-sacrifice, but it didn't happen. So the question is whether this counts as surmounting the challenge, and to what extent.
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>Nullified out of existence

Alright that's hardcore
TooSlow said:
If we used Philosophers Wreath to get Augustine's magic system could we use Edeldross to fuel it and effectively gain a greatly discounted version of True Quintessence?
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I mean, if her magic is weak enough for PW to work on it, just get Elixir and have PW Gisena help us with research.
 
when compared to all of our confrontation, cards on the table, is this Hunger's first actual loss against what was supposed to be a "weaker" opponent?

Makes you wonder how Hunger viewed the outcome of the fight, and the consequences of his actions.

Because look at the parallels. The last time he had to fight a Tyrant, he had to lose his wife.

We came pretty close to repeating that, had it not been for RW shenanigans.
 
Hunger didn't lose, and he may not even have had to use the Shattering Blow - that was only one possibility of many, though one Gisena was doing her best to prevent! He closed range because that was the plan to maximize openings for Gisena's Ultimate Nullity, and that plan kind of worked, if not in the way they originally intended... if he hadn't had Gisena along, Hunger would have fought with a different, less aggressive style, which may have made Augustine's location-based trap significantly less effective, though it could certainly have come with dangers of its own.
 
Adorie staying in the VR had been my default assumption. She isn't really a proper combatant and is best suited for administration. We have a few kingdoms in the Voyaging Realm we want someone to keep an eye on and don't know how long the conquest of the Human Sphere is going to take, so... is there any reason not to leave her here? Aside from the Praxis boost that comes from fighting in her vicinity.

Edit: oh, you mean Aeira, sorry misread that. Hmm, not particularly attached to her, though she should be better suited for the subtle machinations of the Human Sphere
 
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Unelemental said:
Adorie staying in the VR had been my default assumption. She isn't really a proper combatant and is best suited for administration. We have a few kingdoms in the Voyaging Realm we want someone to keep an eye on and don't know how long the conquest of the Human Sphere is going to take, so... is there any reason not to leave her here? Aside from the Praxis boost that comes from fighting in her vicinity.
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I also agree that Adorie should stay, but how do you feel about Aeira staying behind?
 
Hirorubie said:
I also agree that Adorie should stay, but how do you feel about Aeira staying behind?
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I don't know why we'd leave her behind. Her ability just went up a whole lot after investing arete, we unlocked a bunch of new cool sounding advancements like True Shadowcord and Threnody Sorceress, her stealth abilities are super useful, she buffs some of Hunger's best stats a considerable amount by having her amount, and more importantly the progression boost from Retinue is going to make her grow in power even faster.
 
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Sara said:
I don't know why we'd leave her behind. Her ability just went up a whole lot after investing arete, we unlocked a bunch of new cool sounding advancements like True Shadowcord and Threnody Sorceress, her stealth abilities are super useful, she buffs some of Hunger's best stats, and more importantly the progression boost from Retinue is going to make her grow in power even faster.
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I was under the impression that the Retinue portion of RW would only apply to Gisena, but if it does indeed apply to everyone I would be more interested in bringing her.

The only reason I was considering dropping her is with Chains coming due at some point soonTM, i didn't want her to be a convenient vector of attack. If she has decent growth potential outside of our Arete I won't be as concerened about her being a weak link.

Edit: As it is, if Letrizia got a full strength armament & Gisena is the RW, only aobaru would need babysat, and we were doing that anyway. I was considering if we dumped Arete into Aobaru we could have a set of fighters, where if we bring Aeira we might need to double up on the companion expenditure, which could be a lot harder to get the thread to swallow.
 
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Wolfy said:
So, how many of you would be for letting Aeria stay in Voyaging Realm? I don't particularly care about her even with Arete spent on her; she doesn't seem that useful and dealing with logistics involving her sounds annoying.
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I like all of our companions, but I can see the logistical issues incoming and understand quite a few people didnt really care about her in the first place and don't care about her now. I'm all for dropping her off somewhere reasonably safe where she can grow. She can be useful later if/when we return to VR with Aobaru, especially if she either trains new Elementalist agents or gains strength and experience by becoming Adorie's retainer in the Realm of Myth for a while (which will also serve to protect our investment in Adorie/Tears while we're gone). She'll probably be quite happy with the latter too, considering the literally royal sum she could be paid for her service.

As one counterpoint though: In the Human Sphere, stealth/sabotage skills may become more important, or at least purely individual martial strength may become a bit less useful, given the politically tense state of matters there, as well as how modern-to-futuristic warfare works in general. Might be one reason to take her, but it will depend on how much effort/investment it requires to pull her out of VR with Aobaru. Unless that amount is fairly low, I'd still be in favor of dropping her off.
 
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Hirorubie said:
Edit: As it is, if Letrizia got a full strength armament & Gisena is the RW, only aobaru would need babysat, and we were doing that anyway. I was considering if we dumped Arete into Aobaru we could have a set of fighters, where if we bring Aeira we might need to double up on the companion expenditure, which could be a lot harder to get the thread to swallow.
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Gisena is the RW, but she's far more effective against mages than physical combatants... against a Hunger-tier physical warlord she'd be hard pressed, just because Hunger is that powerful!
 
Taka said:
when compared to all of our confrontation, cards on the table, is this Hunger's first actual loss against what was supposed to be a "weaker" opponent?

Makes you wonder how Hunger viewed the outcome of the fight, and the consequences of his actions.

Because look at the parallels. The last time he had to fight a Tyrant, he had to lose his wife.

We came pretty close to repeating that, had it not been for RW shenanigans.
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Regardless of the actual outcomes, we know twice now that Hunger has had 'burn self' as a card in his hand to play. Once here, and once as a possibility during the Aobaru/chains encounter.

Both were in the Realm of Myth, so I believe he has only recently been able to access this old power of his. Is it unlocked because of location, or because his rank now exceeds what it was originally when he burned himself?

I kind of hope we get the chance to discourage him from hastily resorting to such an action.
(I may be mis remembering things, if you know another point it was mentioned he could burn himself, feel free to remind me)
 
We're committed to finding a way to export surgecrafters anyway with Aobaru so I don't see that bringing Aeira with us is a big extra burden. Especially since using her stealth power to smuggle them out of the VR and avoid triggering its wrath is an obvious route to investigate. If we didn't have Adorie to manage our affairs here (and keep them free of Apocryphal interference) there'd be a case for keeping her in the VR as an agent (which there isn't for Aobaru since Aobaru is both crass and an assassination target) but a magic ninja is always a good card to have in hand.
 
TooSlow said:
Aobaru and Aeria do different things, so not bringing Aeria would mean a reduction in what we can do rather than how powerful we are.
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She's a vector of attack. Like, remember how people didn't vote for her dying?

She's a possible hostage and amount of utility she brings to the table is completely irrelevant compared to amount of leverage she has over the thread. It would be different if we were willing to just let her die, but we are not.
 
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