"the underlying form of Hunger's Tyrant Curse": We know that Hunger's link to the Accursed provides comprehensive protection against mental and spiritual interference, so perhaps this Curse twists that? He already defies all magical attempts to control him, so the curse forces him to defy mundane attempts to control him as well, and it does this by lowering the allowable threshold to include things like laws and customs. It's also interesting to note that the Tyrant's curse comes per-mitigated against orders from the Accursed, and the Cursebearer protection would almost certainly fail to protect from the Accursed himself. The Tyrant's curse can't block him from obeying the Accursed because the underlying protection it perverts only works on things weaker than the Accursed.
 
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In the absence of a guiding star, a powerful mind was a vessel only for going nowhere quickly. Hunger had his vengeance, but what purpose was her own?

Lots of thoughts on purpose here, both for Gisena and her companions.

Hunger has his vengeance. And we've speculated that there's more to his vengeance than a decade of suffering, dreadful as that was, that he's in some way a continuation of the Forebear, whose Procession and suffering were a horror great enough to be deserving of quest through countless ages in revenge.

Hunger was given the choice, in the beginning, between freedom or vengeance. I think freedom-hunger would have been more like Gisena, a being with immense power but no guiding star, going nowhere quickly. I wonder what purpose, if any, he would have chosen if that option won? Knowing voters we'd probably end up trying to power level Hunger even without Progression, with disastrous results. No comfy quest for us.

Natural people are born for no real reason, exist without any real purpose other than a comfortable life, and die having accomplished nothing of any relevance. But Adorie is an artificial being, with a purpose picked out and presumably built into her. She is ornamental, and while her magic might also be functional the function it exists to enable, the magical theme park, is ornamental as well.

I think dedicating your life to bringing people happiness in an amusement park is a fine and worthy thing for an adult to choose as their life goal, but being bred and born for the purpose is a bit much. "Why do I exist?" "Because the Foremost needed a princess for their amusement park". Of course it's possible she'd be fine with the situation. The lion from the petting zoo and Verschlengorge where both wholly devoted to their purpose. Perhaps Adorie would find meaning, certainty, and satisfaction in what the Foremost made her to be as well.

The Accursed seeks a kinder world.

And then Gisena has her own musings.

She sees her past in Adorie's ivory-tower innocence, but I think she see's her present as well. Like Adorie she is custom-made, with a magic that exists for a specific purpose and function. But unlike Adorie she is both aware of this purpose and dislikes it. Being given the vision of all magic but able only to destroy it. And she doesn't even know why. "Did it matter the reason behind the Maiden's decree, if the decree was absolute regardless?"

I think she'd agree that being the nullity sorceress is better than being nothing at all, but losing your dreams still hurts, even if time shows that your dreams were unreasonable.

(Also, I'm just a little bit annoyed at how casually she dismisses the Ring. I guess rings of power are trivial now or something? She can do magic now! The only thing bigger than her ego is her expectations for what 'real' magic looks like.)

But the chapter isn't over yet, because she does find a reason.

Gisena Allria was the Nullity Sorceress. The findross she produced could only do one thing. Yet, there was no limit to the forms it could take in the pursuit of that purpose... Gisena Allria scribed with her Graces a rune, whose meaning was Singularity, and whose purpose was ascension.

There was light.

In that moment, Gisena at last understood the Maiden's reasoning. Why was she the Sorceress whose only Grace was Nullity?

Simply because, a genius needs nothing else.

And with that, her childhood purpose, to explore the wonder of magic, has become possible once again.

...


The twisted resemblance of the Lady Protector spell's to certain of the Maiden's Graces, the likely true nature of the Foremost, the reality of Letrizia's family strife, the underlying form of Hunger's Tyrant Curse... for all the clues she'd pieced together, the truth only mattered where such knowledge would change the actions taken in reality.

My guesses for the tantalizing clues here

"the likely true nature of the Foremost": I'm at a bit of a loss on this one. Is she referring to the many theories we've posted about the Voyaging realm being the past/future of the Manifest realm? Is it some speculation about the Forebear making this world by taking pieces from a bunch of other worlds? Or is there some deeper secret here? Will have to think more on this.

"the reality of Letrizia's family strife": Multiple attempts have been made on Letrizia's life. First she was teleported into the Voyaging realm at random, then Ber was hired by an Astral Lord to kill her. Given that she's a duchess and her father is an archduke, it's possible that she's first in line to inherit and someone else prefered that they inherit first instead. No doubt she'd be upset to learn a brother/sister/uncle wants her dead.

"the underlying form of Hunger's Tyrant Curse": I posted this earlier, but I think the Tyrant's curse changes the mental/spiritual protection granted by his link to the Accursed such that he's also 'protected' from being controlled by things like laws and customs. Naturally this link to the Accursed would not protect Hunger from the Accursed, and so the Tyrant's curse doesn't block Hunger from acknowledging the Accursed's authority.

Like her, Hunger's first taste of magic had resulted in the death of his dreams, though on a scale far vaster and crueler. Would he repudiate that quest, knowing what he did now? Or would he continue doggedly ahead, doing his uttermost even when the path was preordained?

"Cut. Through."

Hunger fell to one knee, Ring-hand clutching his head as his soul fought to retain connection to his body. If even so fundamental a verity could be contested, then an emergent phenomenon like Pressure stood no chance at manifestation.

Hunger is his ring, with the body as an appendage, but it's only times like this that I remember this.

It's interesting to compare the rings of Hunger and Time to each other. I believe the Accursed purified the ring Hunger? Did he change something fundamental? Could we replicate this on the Gisena's ring to make it more compatible with her? And yes technically that's murder but it's a ring not a person and it's probably evil, which may or may not change the moral calculus.

What would be left of Hunger if he burned his selfhood to strike true, shattering the Blade again? Was this his fate, a cycle of endless repetition, every Tyrant felled at the cost of his identity?

This is the second time in the Realm of Myth that this "burning self" thing has come up. First up with the Runes of Mastery and resulting scars of myth, and now here. Perhaps the Apocryphal is pushing this. Tormenting Hunger by convincing him to willingly destroy himself, over and over, is a very curse-like thing to do.

Happily we've managed to escape this cycle so far, and maybe if the VOTERS STOPPED THROWING HUNGER INTO EXTREME DANGER we could put it to rest for good. Seriously, this quest is a never-ending succession of close calls. Incredibly fun to read about but if Rihaku kills off Hunger in a time skip or epilogue it would taint the whole thing.

...

Brilliant chapter, can't wait to see what happens now that Gisena is powerful enough to really contribute to the plot, or whatever crazy magics she comes up with. As for voting, personally I'm in favor of ignoring the Shard. We'll revisit her later on anyways, I have a feeling that the Apocryphal will make sure of it even if voters don't, but for now I want to see the main plot, some space opera, actual down-time, and maybe

just maybe

we will finally, finally, create a grace.


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Fantastic update, thoroughly reinvigorated my interest in Gisena. Hopefully with the Realm of Myth essentially done, we'll start focusing on plot progression and character focused stuff. Adorie better throw us one hell of a farewell party before we leave, put that meta-genetically engineered theme park manager power to good use.

Thx Rihaku, just ruined my 4k omake. I will need some time to process that. If you need me, I will be in the pub trying to win a drinking competition against myself.

Look on the bright side, now you have even more power saved to advance the cause of the S O R D!
 
Hunger was given the choice, in the beginning, between freedom or vengeance. I think freedom-hunger would have been more like Gisena, a being with immense power but no guiding star, going nowhere quickly. I wonder what purpose, if any, he would have chosen if that option won? Knowing voters we'd probably end up trying to power level Hunger even without Progression, with disastrous results. No comfy quest for us.
Well, both builds had the theoretical power to challenge the Hidden Ones, if it was highly unlikely.

Certainly, Forsaken Mask-Hunger would still be more powerful than present-Hunter, given equal amounts of Arete..
 
The Lathe of Heaven. The object, the symbol, the pattern by whose revolution the world was re-created and destroyed. Fitting heraldry for Hunger's patron, given his ultimate objective. That too was implicit in the Lathe of Heaven, for those who knew where to look.
Very Oddysial, but is it a red herring? If so Hunger will catch it!

Gisena has acquired the Advancement, Renaissance Woman. Augustine, the Lady Protector, has been slain beyond the possibility of recovery; all her contingencies came to naught in the face of the True Nullity.

[X] Renaissance Woman
Truly backstabbing Aobaru has proven a wise and farsighted decision!

People have been joking/speculating about Gisena generating Arete of her own. I think that might be accurate.

Mechanically it makes sense that Gisena starts gaining, slowly, Arete of her own and that she gets added to our build votes. So we vote for Hungers build and our Retinue's (Gisena) as well.

Though, Rihaku probably has a much better idea of quest mechanics than me, this seems the obvious way to simulate Gisena personally replicating the effects of Retinue.
 
With this Curse Mitigation isn't as critical a problem as it has been previously?
Curse Mitigation was never "critical problem"; rather, getting Curse Mitigation was a lot value of time(consider million years with 60% Apo vs 40% Apo) so we wanted to get as much of it as we could without compromising our short term safety. It's a very good investment, pretty much. Even going forward, mitigation will be a consideration - for example, getting additional half-step from Elixir would be very nice, on top of everything else Elixir related.

Speaking of Elixir, existence of RW sharply changed value of certain EFBs. Getting Elixir is pretty much a must now - combination of Findross and Edeldross need to be researched, Gisena's new ability should allow her to shit out more Graces for us, Apo mitigation stacking etc. Companions would have pretty great value with Gisena's new social and mental power. Pillars remains as good as it was, but Gisena can do more in the prep time. Something to consider when charting our way forward, although Pillars/RR/Fisher King likely remains the ultimate "invest for future" plan.

But man, I'm so sad we didn't give Tears to Gisena... Imagine her coming up with Bloodcasting magics for us..
(Also, I'm just a little bit annoyed at how casually she dismisses the Ring. I guess rings of power are trivial now or something? She can do magic now! The only thing bigger than her ego is her expectations for what 'real' magic looks like.)
It's more that they don't scale much on the ISH, apparently. "Much" is relative, of course, but it is what it is.
 
Well, both builds had the theoretical power to challenge the Hidden Ones, if it was highly unlikely.

Freedom Hunger explicitly could not within finite time, even with the Intensified Imperial Praxis.
Very Oddysial, but is it a red herring?

It was kinda sorta maybe confirmed that the Accursed was an alternate version of Odyssial who didn't die in the Usurpation.

Speaking of Elixir, existence of RW sharply changed value of certain EFBs. Getting Elixir is pretty much a must now - combination of Findross and Edeldross need to be researched, Gisena's new ability should allow her to shit out more Graces for us, Apo mitigation stacking etc. Companions would have pretty great value with Gisena's new social and mental power. Pillars remains as good as it was, but Gisena can do more in the prep time. Something to consider when charting our way forward, although Pillars/RR/Fisher King likely remains the ultimate "invest for future" plan.

Hmm. Between the Tower and Elixir, I wonder if we'll be able to use the Realm of Evening to generate -dross substances for us wholesale. As for Elixir, I agree. Not only is it good in general, with Elixir's bonuses to training Magnitude and Silver's Magnitude doubling and any bonuses from Edeldross Adept, we'd be able to buff Gisena's already stellar Intelligence, Wisdom and Wits to some truly ridiculous degrees, which would make Grace creation for both her and us even faster.
 
Interesting phrasing there. We've been assuming the Manifest Realm preceded the Foremost coalition; what if the causal chain goes the other way and Gisena's actually from the grim darkness of the far future? It'd help explain the ithilyor's ignorance of their heritage... Still, it's nothing less than tragic if the Foremost were reduced from a society that brought both the physical and Astral Realms to heel to a remnant splintered by inter-species strife, so weak that a properly nourished orc is an existential threat.

We know the Voyaging realm is failing and needs to be saved. The realm of myth has some resistance to existential diminishment, so perhaps the Manifest Realm with its storybook knights in shining armor is just the last, tattered remains of the Realm of Myth after the rest of the Voyaging Realm was diminished into nothing?

Here's Seram in the Manifest Realm. Notice the description of the sky. Pink and teal clouds, not quite opalescence but decidedly abnormal.

Seram arrived to a world drenched in color, color so thick he could feel it under his fingernails, a landscape like an Impressionist's lucid dream. Beneath him were rolling hills blanketed in emerald grass, dotted sparsely with verdant trees bending slightly in the breeze. Above him was the sun like a molten jewel, surmounted by clouds the color of fresh cream. The pale blue sky was rich with such clouds, ivory-white and astonishing in their texture and fluffiness, but interspersed among them were spun-sugar puffs of pink and teal.

The air itself was almost perceptibly sweet, halcyon pure and slightly cool for noontime. There was nothing overwhelming about the entire sensory avalanche: the vibrancy of color was stunning, but so light and well-complemented was their shade and hue that every element blended seamlessly into the other. The world commanded immediacy without provoking tension, evoked eloquence but avoided the saccharine. As if some painter god had sifted free the wonder of childhood and distilled it to daub across sea and sky.
Listlessly, Seram rose and stumbled over to the corpses of the fallen warriors. They were adorned in plate mail, carefully articulated and in some places intricately chiffoned. The agonized expressions on their faces made for grisly contrast with their fallen armaments. A mirror-polished pauldron, unstained by blood, caught the sun, glimmering in the corner of Seram's eye. The beauty of this world was undiminished, save where it had been touched by slaughter.
 
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It was kinda sorta maybe confirmed that the Accursed was an alternate version of Odyssial who didn't die in the Usurpation.
Huh, I would have assumed it would reincarnated Oddysial, since he was the one with Sorcery.

It would seem to me that Sorcery would be what really let Oddysial start breaking the setting enough to generate Pseudo-praxis effects and boot strap to higher up the ISH.

I wonder how he managed? Would be interesting to see one day.
 
Huh, I would have assumed it would reincarnated Oddysial, since he was the one with Sorcery.

It would seem to me that Sorcery would be what really let Oddysial start breaking the setting enough to generate Pseudo-praxis effects and boot strap to higher up the ISH.

I wonder how he managed? Would be interesting to see one day.

Nah, Odyssial ended up rendering Sorcery largely redundant as far as I'm aware since he could just spontaneously spam shit like upgraded Shinmaic Calibrations and stuff. And yeah, I'm curious how he ended up making it while constrained by Exalted as a setting.
Forsaken Mask Hunger : Acquire True Wish

Use True Wish on Hidden Ones. Not easy, but hey!

Acquiring a proactive True Wish requires Odyssial-tier gameplay and for you to accomplish a feat comparable to creating the Lathe of Heaven.

You'd be better off training!
 
Man, after all the fuss about Skyveil, Gisena had better craft herself an Artifact paper bag to wear until she develops some Grace equivalent. Can't become movie stars in the Human Sphere if we're labelled memetic hazards.
 
Alright, current considerations:

1) Given overall difficulty of Augustine fight we can hopefully expect three or even four picks out of this. Whatever the case might be, that means an Arete expenditure point, and we are very likely capable of getting EFB here. Pillars is, an always, something we can consider - especially as we are likely to enter timeskips soon and as Gisena can make more use of Pillars. Of course, we can expect ton of shinnies to compete with it - Elixir to ascend with Gisena, some LP specific mage Advancement, HT for getting out of VS logistics or something like that. As such, we should expect more arguments for next decision point.

2) We have pretty massive amount of Curse Mitigation right now, but direct and indirect - direct refers to directly lowering Curse by steps while indirect means that our abilities allow us to deal with Curses better, such as Pillars+Fisher King offering great amount of Hunger Sated mitigation. Hopefully, we can get to the point where we can get additional Curses soonish, that would be a fun decision

3) Speaking of VS logistics, that should be our next hurdle. With RW Gisena and out general social, we should have strong showing in Human Sphere; however, we still need to find a way to extract our crew. Of course, we could just get Aerie to fuck off because she's doing dick, but I'm sure people want to bring her along. Hopefully, Gisena's will capable of helping us with this

4) We should consider what path, exactly, we wish to take. Pillars/RR/Fisher King offers great amount of long term scaling and utility that is relatively easy to get even without Arete bonus, but also has little short term power. On the other hand, something like SitS and Companions offers different way of scaling that also gives a lot of utility right now. Then you have something like SJUC, which would give us enough Rank to start thinking about fighting Armaments directly

5) Beyond all that, let's talk about our win condition. Our ultimate goal is defeating the Hidden Masters; as such, our goal in this quest is setting up Hunger for success. That means mitigating Curses and giving him powerful ways to scale, which can be done once we have secured our position by getting enough short term power. Thanks to effort of many posters, we have managed to accomplish step 1 and make Hunger safe power-wise, and are currently working on step 2, acquiring power. Still, I would like to propose that we should think a step ahead.

Right now, great brunt of our power is in Rank; we've did well to enable Rank build to these heights, and it's carrying us well. We can even spike that power further, if we so desire. However, Rank is not the god stat, or at least it's not once we get in stronger worlds. As such, we should correctly recognize "god stats" and focus on getting them at any opportunity. As far as I can tell, those are:

a) +ISH: We've already seen this offered three times already, so it's clearly not an one of. Still, given how ISH works, even fractional increase represents more power than what Rank can offer. As such, it would be for the best if we went out of our way to get this whenever we can. Likewise, Aobaru's ability seems to be a great source of this, so we might want to keep him around. With him and Quickening we'd already have +1.3 ISH. With our base being around 1.6, getting to 3.0ISH speed(!) would be completely doable. One big difference between this and Rank is that ISH, as far as we know, doesn't cap out. As such, this should become our main focus for defeating Hidden Masters

b) Progression+: I don't need to expand on this, I think. Stacks very well with Pillars

c) Accursed Favor: Perhaps the goddest of stats, this offers pretty sick long term value on account of most powerful being in the multiverse(as far as we know) being willing to do shit for us

d) Curse Mitigation: Another self-evident one. Additionally, this would give us a huge value if we decided to get more Curses - right now, if we took another Curse it would get instantly mitigated by two and the half stages, before anything else. So not only does this reduces amount of risk accumulation through the countless eons, but it allows us to gain additional Lesser Remittances

e) Mental Stability: We discussed this previously when Forebear chapter hit, but remaining mentally stable through the eternity is important. Is more or less solved with Pillars, at least for some time

In short, get +ISH, Progression+ and Favor when we can, make sure that our EFBs mitigate our curses at least indirectly and take care to maintain our mental stability.
 
Speaking of mental stability, how are we going to celebrate the freeing of the Realms of Myth?

If the Elixer Sovereignty had the Kaguya, then what wonders of relaxation must this opalescent opulent land contain? I think we can spend a few nights at the height of luxury, on their dime no less. As Wolfy said, we have to maintain our mental stability, and it's hard for Hunger to justify taking a break for anything other than a grand victory such as this. It's also unlikely we could have even afforded the highest luxuries here without going bankrupt, and their goodwill won't last forever!

Then, how are we leaving this whole VR? a sprint towards the Human Sphere, a victory tour through our lands, or a lackadasical pace through new lands, enjoying the journey.

I'm not as sure on that one, I suppose I'd want it to contrast with our above choice. If we rush out of here, I hope we take the time to enjoy the journey. If we stay and kick back, I'm much more in favor of either blitzing out or just taking a quick look at our lands to make sure they aren't on fire.
 
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b) Progression+: I don't need to expand on this, I think. Stacks very well with Pillars

One addendum to this: +Progression is important but even more important is picking up some form of To Shatter Heaven in the Praxis. A 300% increase in Praxis training results is an absolutely staggering improvement that isn't covered by +Progression, which is especially important since we can't outsource Praxis training and its probably our best source of +ISH along with a bunch of other incredibly useful, infinitely scaling tools*. Certainly, we should finagle some method of getting it before we start timeskipping or we'd be leaving an enormous amount of value on the table.

*Man, Refinement of Battle sure would be good now that the Apocryphal is throwing anti-Rank effects at us.
 
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As Rihaku noted earlier, Augustine's attack wasn't anti-Rank specifically; rather, we were capable of ablating our Rank to protect our soul from getting ripped out of our body. If not for Rank, we'd just die.
 
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Yeah but considering it was given to her by the Apocryphal, it seems like it was specifically targeted towards disabling our Rank (or rather our Pressure), as opposed to something she had access to natively. That's why eventually getting Refinement of Battle would be good, diversifying our effects so that we're no longer quite as reliant on one thing as our main source of power.
 
This also makes me wonder if Elixer has a true quintessence equivalent or if when you reach that level the substances end up the same. Is the true quintessence simply the ultimate understanding of dross substances, a substance born from the meta singularity, or something stemming only from findross? I am really curious now. Also does this mean the foremost were a race of True quintessence users. Makes it honestly that much more attractive to me, particularly because our access to the advancement is through the cloak not edeldross. I wonder did the foremost make the cloak or perhaps they learnt from it.
True quintessence is just Findross combined with the runes that Augustine used.
And yes technically that's murder but it's a ring not a person
Some might say that a ring is more than a person.
 
Can we buy fishing bait or fishing locations here?

Could this be... the return of the meme???

More seriously, I think it would be worthwhile to consider taking some actual downtime actions in the Realm of Myth after this. We've been going at an extremely punishing pace from the Temple to Praxis training to rescuing the Sovereignity to Nilfel to the Fish to the Lord Protector. Our boy needs some real time to chill and where better than here to do it? Let's have some nice character interaction and peace before we rush off to the next adventure, please. At the very least, let's talk to Gisena, who clearly has a lot to say and who we've relegated to a background roll dispensing banter.

Also:

F I S H
 
Have we ever actually been offered a vote option for downtime of more than a handful of days, tho? I've wanted to rest and work on graces for a while now.
 
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