- Location
- Nevada
I don't suppose we can get a status update on the next chapter? There aren't exactly many KnK stories lying around and I hope to see more of this.
The next chapter's been giving me... a lot of trouble, to put it nicely, so I've been working primarily on other things that are... less complicated (e.g. the new quest I'm doing), in the hopes that by writing daily and scaling up to being able to work on the more difficult stuff, I'll be able to get through this chapter and we can move on.I don't suppose we can get a status update on the next chapter? There aren't exactly many KnK stories lying around and I hope to see more of this.
Oh noes.The next chapter's been giving me... a lot of trouble, to put it nicely, so I've been working primarily on other things that are... less complicated (e.g. the new quest I'm doing), in the hopes that by writing daily and scaling up to being able to work on the more difficult stuff, I'll be able to get through this chapter and we can move on.
Transposition's in a similar state, but instead of being ridiculously hard it's only moderately difficult so I make a little progress every week.
Why's the chapter giving so much trouble? Well, following after the discussion concerning the lack of characterization of the twins prior to the recent incidents, I decided that I'd instead give characterization through dedicated chapters in this arc. I outlined it, plotted it, and at this point have completely molded the build and relaxation of tension to work with those chapters.
3.1, we have a low-energy chapter, albeit one that ends on a note that creates a sense of direction. 3.2 we have a chapter that creates rising tension, anticipation for the events that we know are going to follow. And then next there's 3.0.1, which lowers the anxious climbing build slightly and provides helpful background, while retaining the anticipation from the previous chapter. 3.4 is the apparent climax, with Taylor doing her thing and lots of excitement. According to dramatic structure, following this should be a wind down (and we do see a slight reprieve immediately following Coil's death), but suddenly there's a reversal, and just when you though it was over, a larger obstacle appears, restoring that tension running through the entire chapter.
At this point, you're high-strung, wound up (maybe a bit too much based on some reviews I've gotten XD) and possibly overwhelmed from all the fast-paced action. So the next chapter takes a step back, gives you some breathing room to relax, restore an equilibrium. That's 3.0.2, another background chapter, this one more significant in the role it plays in Taylor's history.
So what's the problem?
The problem is I write characters organically. I don't come up with detailed histories or life-stories or anything before they're introduced, I'm literally like, okay, I'll add someone like this and this, and maybe have an interesting factoid about them that the PoV character notes or finds out. Beyond that I let the character write themselves, maybe following some archetype and then suddenly subverting it or adding depth in some way as you learn more about them so they're not as two-dimensional.
With the twins, that's how it started. I was like "oh, Japanese twins trope, sure, why not, oh and I can have them end up involved in the entire Bakuda thing and create all this plot and conflict with tons of character development for everyone. Cool."
And then I wrote them.
By now, we've seen more about who they are, what their state of mind and relationship with Taylor is and vaguely what it involved (Taylor dragging Aya out of her shell... somehow). 3.0.2 goes all the way back to the beginning of that, and the issue I'm having is reconciling the current state of their relationship with the beginning, particularly how it connects.
Seeing a character's relationship with the protagonist without prior context is generally fine, and it develops as you move forward. The problem happens when you then try to go back and work forward to recreate the state you first saw, because it has to be just right to have ended up the way you showed.
And that's where I am.
TLDR: Aya's being a bitch and not cooperating with me and just staying sullen and withdrawn. I'm struggling to find the hook that Taylor used to drag her out, even with the initial meeting/interactions already accounted for.
I've got the chapter after this sorta planned out. I've got the two chapters after that planned out. Hell, I know what I'm going to be doing in the interludes, approximately. It's just not being nice. Ugh.
Here, I'll even give you guys the latest draft that's getting thrown out. These are actually spoilers. So seriously, don't read if you don't want to be spoiled.
Indivisible 3.0.2
February, 2011
"—llory: The Persian Empire, Taylor and Ayame: Ottoman Empire, Anthony and Ro—"
I glanced over the girl who had been assigned as my partner. She gave no hint of reacting to our teacher's announcement, simply staring forward impassively.
I'd never talked to her before, and the only time I'd ever heard her speak was when the teacher called on her for class.
My attention snapped back to the teacher as she clapped. "Alright, please take the time remaining in class to talk to your partner and do some planning. Maybe even get started with notes from your book. If you have any questions, just come ask me."
There was a sudden clamor as people stood up and started moving around, shifting the desk-chairs and figuring out where to sit. Ayame looked over in my direction and I tilted my head, silently asking if she wanted to come over to where I was instead of vice versa.
She nodded and started gathering up her stuff before carrying it all over. Fortunately, the person who sat in front of me had gone over to another desk and left theirs empty, so Ayame simply turned it around and sat down.
I held my hand out. "Hi, I'm Taylor."
She looked at it cautiously before slowly reaching out and grasping it. "Ayame."
I nodded. "So, um, how do you want to do this? Would my house or your house be better for you?" She pursed her lips, appearing to be thinking about it. "Because my dad won't mind at all."
Ayame nodded. "Fine."
I blinked. "My house?" She nodded again. "Alright. Uh. When do you want to do this? I've got soccer practice pretty much every day, unless you want to want to wait around until I'm done. …Or we could do it this weekend?"
"… I can wait," she said.
"Until after practice?"
She nodded. "Yeah."
"…When? What day? Today? Tomorrow?"
Her pencil tapped against the desk as she thought. "Tomorrow," she finally decided.
And that was that, apparently.
I wasn't sure what to think of her.
Ayame was… not cold—that wasn't the right term. Closed off? Subdued? Reticent?
Not to the degree of wariness or paranoia, but more just as a natural state.
I suppose reserved would be accurate. As accurate as I could get with the minimal amount of interaction I'd had so far. She didn't speak freely. Didn't show particularly strong feelings or opinions. She simply… was.
It was unnerving, like looking at a row of perfectly-identical houses and the creeping sense of discomfort it elicited. Too perfect, not a realistic amount of chaos or expression, not the normal way things should be.
Her work was more telling, if anything. The way she wrote things out, organized them, the selections she made for topics (certain inadequacies and failings of the government over the centuries, the various reforms, the Armenian Genocide and its fall) and how to present them, the mild bias they showed one direction or another.
Those gave me more insight into her than anything she'd done personally or said as we worked at my computer on the presentation.
We'd taken the bus home from school after I was done with soccer, and I'd tried to engage her a couple times on the way to my house, but it just… didn't catch. When I came back from taking an extremely quick shower, she'd been lying on my bed doing something with her phone, but she put it away as soon as I got the computer going and brought up what we'd need to work.
She was… puzzling. I could tell that the things I said did have some effect, if minimal, it just didn't really show. And I kind of wanted to figure out why.
I looked at the clock in the bottom of the screen and frowned.
"So… it's almost seven. And that's when you said your parents were going to be here to pick you up, right?" She gave a short sound from the back of her throat and nodded once. "…Except we aren't done yet, so we'll need to meet again." I looked away from the screen and turned to her. "Saturday afternoon would be the best for me—I've got a game that morning. So would you rather meet at your house or mine again? Which would be easier?"
She chewed her lip. "…Mine."
I pulled out my little planner and flipped to the contacts section. "Alright, what's your address?" I asked, already writing the name 'Ayame' in the name field of the next open spot.
"703 Prospect Street," she said, peering over to look at the book in my hands. Not much to see, though I had Alex, Emily, and Sarah's information all on the opposite page.
If I ever finish a story I plan on letting you guys have access to my notes and stuff. I don't really mind that. You'll probably get a kick out of seeing how many times I write like 3,000 words and then am like "NOPE, don't like this," and throw it out.I like that we got an unfinished draft. Mind, I'm not going to read it until after the actual chapter happens, but I think it'll be interesting to compare the two.
At least you're not like me, as I tend to stop writing before I even beginIf I ever finish a story I plan on letting you guys have access to my notes and stuff. I don't really mind that. You'll probably get a kick out of seeing how many times I write like 3,000 words and then am like "NOPE, don't like this," and throw it out.
I happen to agree with @DW75.Write the way you can. There was nothing -wrong- with the story how it was written so far.
This and Transposition remains among my favorites.
SPOILERS!!!!!!
Ugh, I know what you mean. That's why I tend to plan things out before I write so that this kind of stuff just doesn't happen. Still, I think that what has happened up until now has been the result of some solid writing.The next chapter's been giving me... a lot of trouble, to put it nicely, so I've been working primarily on other things that are... less complicated (e.g. the new quest I'm doing), in the hopes that by writing daily and scaling up to being able to work on the more difficult stuff, I'll be able to get through this chapter and we can move on.
Transposition's in a similar state, but instead of being ridiculously hard it's only moderately difficult so I make a little progress every week.
Why's the chapter giving so much trouble? Well, following after the discussion concerning the lack of characterization of the twins prior to the recent incidents, I decided that I'd instead give characterization through dedicated chapters in this arc. I outlined it, plotted it, and at this point have completely molded the build and relaxation of tension to work with those chapters.
3.1, we have a low-energy chapter, albeit one that ends on a note that creates a sense of direction. 3.2 we have a chapter that creates rising tension, anticipation for the events that we know are going to follow. And then next there's 3.0.1, which lowers the anxious climbing build slightly and provides helpful background, while retaining the anticipation from the previous chapter. 3.3 is the apparent climax, with Taylor doing her thing and lots of excitement. According to dramatic structure, following this should be a wind down (and we do see a slight reprieve immediately following Coil's death), but suddenly there's a reversal, and just when you though it was over, a larger obstacle appears, restoring that tension running through the entire chapter.
At this point, you're high-strung, wound up (maybe a bit too much based on some reviews I've gotten XD) and possibly overwhelmed from all the fast-paced action. So the next chapter takes a step back, gives you some breathing room to relax, restore an equilibrium. That's 3.0.2, another background chapter, this one more significant in the role it plays in Taylor's history.
So what's the problem?
The problem is I write characters organically. I don't come up with detailed histories or life-stories or anything before they're introduced, I'm literally like, okay, I'll add someone like this and this, and maybe have an interesting factoid about them that the PoV character notes or finds out. Beyond that I let the character write themselves, maybe following some archetype and then suddenly subverting it or adding depth in some way as you learn more about them so they're not as two-dimensional.
With the twins, that's how it started. I was like "oh, Japanese twins trope, sure, why not, oh and I can have them end up involved in the entire Bakuda thing and create all this plot and conflict with tons of character development for everyone. Cool."
And then I wrote them.
By now, we've seen more about who they are, what their state of mind and relationship with Taylor is and vaguely what it involved (Taylor dragging Aya out of her shell... somehow). 3.0.2 goes all the way back to the beginning of that, and the issue I'm having is reconciling the current state of their relationship with the beginning, particularly how it connects.
Seeing a character's relationship with the protagonist without prior context is generally fine, and it develops as you move forward. The problem happens when you then try to go back and work forward to recreate the state you first saw, because it has to be just right to have ended up the way you showed.
And that's where I am.
TLDR: Aya's being a bitch and not cooperating with me and just staying sullen and withdrawn. I'm struggling to find the hook that Taylor used to drag her out, even with the initial meeting/interactions already accounted for.
I've got the chapter after this sorta planned out. I've got the two chapters after that planned out. Hell, I know what I'm going to be doing in the interludes, approximately. It's just not being nice. Ugh.
Here, I'll even give you guys the latest draft that's getting thrown out. These are actually spoilers. So seriously, don't read if you don't want to be spoiled.
Indivisible 3.0.2
February, 2011
"—llory: The Persian Empire, Taylor and Ayame: Ottoman Empire, Anthony and Ro—"
I glanced over the girl who had been assigned as my partner. She gave no hint of reacting to our teacher's announcement, simply staring forward impassively.
I'd never talked to her before, and the only time I'd ever heard her speak was when the teacher called on her for class.
My attention snapped back to the teacher as she clapped. "Alright, please take the time remaining in class to talk to your partner and do some planning. Maybe even get started with notes from your book. If you have any questions, just come ask me."
There was a sudden clamor as people stood up and started moving around, shifting the desk-chairs and figuring out where to sit. Ayame looked over in my direction and I tilted my head, silently asking if she wanted to come over to where I was instead of vice versa.
She nodded and started gathering up her stuff before carrying it all over. Fortunately, the person who sat in front of me had gone over to another desk and left theirs empty, so Ayame simply turned it around and sat down.
I held my hand out. "Hi, I'm Taylor."
She looked at it cautiously before slowly reaching out and grasping it. "Ayame."
I nodded. "So, um, how do you want to do this? Would my house or your house be better for you?" She pursed her lips, appearing to be thinking about it. "Because my dad won't mind at all."
Ayame nodded. "Fine."
I blinked. "My house?" She nodded again. "Alright. Uh. When do you want to do this? I've got soccer practice pretty much every day, unless you want to want to wait around until I'm done. …Or we could do it this weekend?"
"… I can wait," she said.
"Until after practice?"
She nodded. "Yeah."
"…When? What day? Today? Tomorrow?"
Her pencil tapped against the desk as she thought. "Tomorrow," she finally decided.
And that was that, apparently.
I wasn't sure what to think of her.
Ayame was… not cold—that wasn't the right term. Closed off? Subdued? Reticent?
Not to the degree of wariness or paranoia, but more just as a natural state.
I suppose reserved would be accurate. As accurate as I could get with the minimal amount of interaction I'd had so far. She didn't speak freely. Didn't show particularly strong feelings or opinions. She simply… was.
It was unnerving, like looking at a row of perfectly-identical houses and the creeping sense of discomfort it elicited. Too perfect, not a realistic amount of chaos or expression, not the normal way things should be.
Her work was more telling, if anything. The way she wrote things out, organized them, the selections she made for topics (certain inadequacies and failings of the government over the centuries, the various reforms, the Armenian Genocide and its fall) and how to present them, the mild bias they showed one direction or another.
Those gave me more insight into her than anything she'd done personally or said as we worked at my computer on the presentation.
We'd taken the bus home from school after I was done with soccer, and I'd tried to engage her a couple times on the way to my house, but it just… didn't catch. When I came back from taking an extremely quick shower, she'd been lying on my bed doing something with her phone, but she put it away as soon as I got the computer going and brought up what we'd need to work.
She was… puzzling. I could tell that the things I said did have some effect, if minimal, it just didn't really show. And I kind of wanted to figure out why.
I looked at the clock in the bottom of the screen and frowned.
"So… it's almost seven. And that's when you said your parents were going to be here to pick you up, right?" She gave a short sound from the back of her throat and nodded once. "…Except we aren't done yet, so we'll need to meet again." I looked away from the screen and turned to her. "Saturday afternoon would be the best for me—I've got a game that morning. So would you rather meet at your house or mine again? Which would be easier?"
She chewed her lip. "…Mine."
I pulled out my little planner and flipped to the contacts section. "Alright, what's your address?" I asked, already writing the name 'Ayame' in the name field of the next open spot.
"703 Prospect Street," she said, peering over to look at the book in my hands. Not much to see, though I had Alex, Emily, and Sarah's information all on the opposite page.
Is there a reason she can't stay that way? That you have to draw her out?TLDR: Aya's being a bitch and not cooperating with me and just staying sullen and withdrawn.
I think ensou means they're having trouble sorting out her character development between Taylor meeting her initially, and her showing up in the story, not the effects recent events (i.e. triggering) are having. The background stuff, essentially.Is there a reason she can't stay that way? That you have to draw her out?
All things considered, a change in attitude makes a lot of sense, especially after getting powers.
Assume that the time on the banner is the estimated amount of work needed to complete the next chapter, and besides she's focusing on Ship Happens at the momentHey @ensou, when will the next chapter come out for this? Your banner has been saying within the next 3 days for quite a bit longer than 3 days!
It's in editorial hell, basically. That was the estimate for the first draft, which I actually got done a day ahead of schedule. But my editor (@mazotori, actually, editor extraordinaire) tore it apart and told me to go do it better and expand it. So I expanded it. And then he was like, "This and this and this characterization don't make sense and cut these scenes down and you need more internal thoughts and explicit reasoning/motivation for actions".Hey @ensou, when will the next chapter come out for this? Your banner has been saying within the next 3 days for quite a bit longer than 3 days!
No, no, @ensou, the correct answer is "in 3 days".
Prepare to have to rewrite the Travelers fight, like, five times or something. Because that always seems to happen with the fight scenes in this fic.But I am working on it, I swear, it's just slow. And after this we've got the Travelers fight which is going to be really easy in comparison, and then the wind-down chapter, and then interludes (which I've got planned already), and... yeah.
Nono, that's Transposition. Somehow for this story I can write fight chapters and barely have to edit them at all. Hell, the last chapter I wrote in like... two days, only did some minimal changes and cleaning, and then posted.Prepare to have to rewrite the Travelers fight, like, five times or something. Because that always seems to happen with the fight scenes in this fic.