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A Finely Honed Blade [Worm/Kara no Kyoukai | Garden of Sinners]

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Get's alert
Hype rises
Clicks
Disappointment.
I can't believe you've done this. And now I'm gonna be in a mood for the next hour.
 
Alert: OK let's cool down here
  • Staff Post
    • ok let's cool down here Everyone should know that necromancy isn't something that we infract or punish users for. However, complaining about it isn't looked too kindly upon.

    I understand your frustration, but I urge everyone to calm down and avoid dogpiling on Walpurgusnacht or commenting to complain about the necromancy.

    And, @Walpurgusnacht the mods didn't decide anything. What you saw was an automated message that appears after an extended period of inactivity in the thread. I would advise that you heed the warning of that message in the future, if only to avoid this situation from occurring again. The thread will always be here, after all.
     
  • Staff Post
    • @ensou, Could you tell us what the status is of the next chapter?
    Are there problems?
     
    the stories not dead if you look at ensou's profile, you'll see she's just editing/rewriting/Whatever she feels like she needs in order to post, the next chapter.
     
    Story will come when @ensou writes it. In the meantime, I can wait. I have no less than 187 other fics that may or may not have updated, so if you need me I'll be over there. OK?
     
    First: GREAT STORY
    I started reading it in Ff.net but here is more eventful with the Omakes and Notes
    I hope that twin's parents are okay even if they have a bomb inside them and Coil death is the only correct way of death dont give him time to try to find a way to his 0.00000...1 oportunity. Taylor should have dismember him and then go for the life-line *like in Venom's supermarket scene* and maybe while he's in the floor cut his connection with other timelines... {cut the life-line KILL him in any permutation of his timeline?}

    Taylor power work with anything with a blade or can cut no? So when she wants to scare the shitless her new minions and gangers or want to punish someone cutting something she can have one of this

    Google:Claw Rings

     
    Not exactly needed, since she can just use her fingernails for the exact same thing. After all, she did cut off Lung's hand after he was halfway dragon with a shitty switchblade. So, if her nails are long enough, she can just trace the lines with her fingernail to cut them.
    Javi said:
    Taylor should have dismember him and then go for the life-line *like in Venom's supermarket scene* and maybe while he's in the floor cut his connection with other timelines... {cut the life-line KILL him in any permutation of his timeline?}
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    Coil's power is a weird precog one. Since we see him dead, he's dead.
     
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    Nawaf said:
    Not exactly needed, since she can just use her fingernails for the exact same thing. After all, she did cut off Lung's hand after he was halfway dragon with a shitty switchblade. So, if her nails are long enough, she can just trace the lines with her fingernail to cut them.

    Coil's power is a weird precog one. Since we see him dead, he's dead.
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    Alright, so firstly, love your sig. Gave me a few laughs.
    Secondly, what if she doesn't want people to know she can use her nails? This is a perfect smokescreen. Also, it looks super badass, and therefore must happen.
    Thirdly, you are correct, as long as it was in fact Coil we saw dead.
     
    Rakkis157 said:
    Unless you killed a body double, but that is something that needs to be set up beforehand. Hence the general understanding that Coil's power is broken on the offense, and pretty shit on the defense.
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    Well, it's much better on offense, but it's not terrible defense. For example: You know how Coil sleeps in two beds (from his perspective) every night. If you only knew where one of those was and planned to atttack it when you saw Coil show up, from Coil's perspective he'd pick the timeline where that didn't happen-- then he'd send a bunch of guys after you because he knew you were watching the place. From your perspective, you'd wait a day and then suddenly Coil's men would attack you, knowing what you planned.

    Of course, if you can attack both beds at once, he's largely screwed.
     
    I... dont ... think ... that its like that how it works. Ok the power is bullship but he lives 2 lives in pararel no? Both of them at the same time and select wich one erase, no?
    You attack his house he erase his pressence from the house, you find the room empty and a group of mercenaries under way... no?
    Its like that no? he didnt have precognition, only pararel-cognition great on offensive. One shot on surprise defense and horrible in a 2 fronts attack

    Please correct me if im wrong


    Ad infinitum for each change
     
    Javi said:
    I... dont ... think ... that its like that how it works. Ok the power is bullship but he lives 2 lives in pararel no? Both of them at the same time and select wich one erase, no?
    You attack his house he erase his pressence from the house, you find the room empty and a group of mercenaries under way... no?
    Its like that no? he didnt have precognition, only pararel-cognition great on offensive. One shot on surprise defense and horrible in a 2 fronts attack

    Please correct me if im wrong


    Ad infinitum for each change
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    No. Basically, he precogs two choices and what will happen in each choice while also (subconsciously) precogging himself so that he knows which timeline he will keep beforehand and acts it out IRL while thinking he chooses a choice.

    In your explanation, the shard precogs both possibilities, sees he chooses one (where he's free), and makes him act one out IRL unconsciously until he arrives at the end of the split.

    The whole explanation is screwy, and IMHO is wildbow's method of covering his ass when people asked how the shards could create separate timelines when the entities' abilities are specifically clarktech and dimensional shenanigans
     
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    Javi said:
    I... dont ... think ... that its like that how it works. Ok the power is bullship but he lives 2 lives in pararel no? Both of them at the same time and select wich one erase, no?
    You attack his house he erase his pressence from the house, you find the room empty and a group of mercenaries under way... no?
    Its like that no? he didnt have precognition, only pararel-cognition great on offensive. One shot on surprise defense and horrible in a 2 fronts attack

    Please correct me if im wrong


    Ad infinitum for each change
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    Based on what I remember of Wildbow explaining Coil's power it's precognition that runs up to the point where one timeline would collapse, then the power auto-pilots him up to that point in the "kept" timeline and then it runs from there again.
    The other timeline never exists, it's just a simulation.
     
    Javi said:
    I... dont ... think ... that its like that how it works. Ok the power is bullship but he lives 2 lives in pararel no? Both of them at the same time and select wich one erase, no?You attack his house he erase his pressence from the house, you find the room empty and a group of mercenaries under way... no?
    Its like that no? he didnt have precognition, only pararel-cognition great on offensive. One shot on surprise defense and horrible in a 2 fronts attack
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    What you just said exactly matches what I just said, though. Because when you attack Coil in the alternate Timeline, the Coil in this timeline will know about it. So you're sitting around the ambush point waiting to attack- from your perspective Coil hasn't shown up yet. Meanwhile Coil knows you're there because he got attacked in the timeline where he visited the place, so he can send men to deal with you or otherwise attempt a counter.

    At least that's how his power works from Coil's perspective. Word of God is that it's actually screwy precognition but that's utterly irrelevant.

    Zweibach said:
    Based on what I remember of Wildbow explaining Coil's power it's precognition that runs up to the point where one timeline would collapse, then the power auto-pilots him up to that point in the "kept" timeline and then it runs from there agaiThe other timeline never exists, it's just a simulation.
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    Word of God never specified his power 'auto-pilots' him. If anything it implies his power knows him so well it just knows what he's going to do ahead of time.
     
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    SolipsistSerpent said:
    Word of God never specified his power 'auto-pilots' him. If anything it implies his power knows him so well it just knows what he's going to do ahead of time.
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    It's not stated, but it's implied. How else would what we see in canon happen? As I said and you repeated, his shard precogs him to know what he will choose. But he doesn't know that. From his perspective, he exists in both timelines until he chooses. But there was no other timeline. He does whatever he would've done without knowing which timeline he would choose from the start. The shard knows through precog what he would do in reality, while he does not. So, he runs on autopilot until the simulation ends.

    In other words, he doesn't erase anything. There has been only one reality where anything happened. Coil thinks that there are two concurrent timelines, but that's just his shard's way of limiting itself. It feeds coil a 'what-if' scenario while he does whatever he did in the timeline he chooses. Since the shard knew from the start what he would do while he did not, he runs on autopilot in reality while using his power.

    The problem here seems to be that you're misunderstanding what is meant by 'autopilot' here. It doesn't mean that the shard decides what Coil does, it means the shard controls Coil according to what it knows he will do in the 'safe' timeline.
     
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    Nawaf said:
    It's not stated, but it's implied. How else would what we see in canon happen? As I said and you repeated, his shard precogs him to know what he will choose. But he doesn't know that. From his perspective, he exists in both timelines until he chooses. But there was no other timeline. He does whatever he would've done without knowing which timeline he would choose from the start. The shard knows through precog what he would do in reality, while he does not. So, he runs on autopilot until the simulation ends.

    In other words, he doesn't erase anything. There has been only one reality where anything happened. Coil thinks that there are two concurrent timelines, but that's just his shard's way of limiting itself. It feeds coil a 'what-if' scenario while he does whatever he did in the timeline he chooses. Since the shard knew from the start what he would do while he did not, he runs on autopilot in realty while using his power
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    That doesn't require an autopilot at all. Coil can make conscious decisions in both timelines. It's just that one of them is a simulation and the other one was predicted ahead of time.
     
    SolipsistSerpent said:
    That doesn't require an autopilot at all. Coil can make conscious decisions in both timelines. It's just that one of them is a simulation and the other one was predicted ahead of time.
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    His shard has to put him on autopilot to guide him down the correct path. If it didn't, then there's a 50-50 chance that Coil would end up on the wrong side of the split. His shard forces him down the path he would have already taken, but if it didn't do that and he went down the wrong path, then when he drops his power he's suddenly in the wrong situation instead of the one he wanted.

    Example:

    Timeline A: Coil Shoots a man.
    Timeline B: Coil does not shoot a man.
    Coil chooses to keep timeline B.
    Timeline B is dropped and Coil is stuck in timeline A because timeline B never actually existed.

    So that's why his power has to put Coil on autopilot. It doesn't really make him do anything he wouldn't have done, it just makes sure that of the 2 things he'll be doing, he picks the one he would actually want to keep.
     
    Vicjer said:
    His shard has to put him on autopilot to guide him down the correct path. If it didn't, then there's a 50-50 chance that Coil would end up on the wrong side of the split. His shard forces him down the path he would have already taken, but if it didn't do that and he went down the wrong path, then when he drops his power he's suddenly in the wrong situation instead of the one he wanted.

    Example:

    Timeline A: Coil Shoots a man.
    Timeline B: Coil does not shoot a man.
    Coil chooses to keep timeline B.
    Timeline B is dropped and Coil is stuck in timeline A because timeline B never actually existed.

    So that's why his power has to put Coil on autopilot. It doesn't really make him do anything he wouldn't have done, it just makes sure that of the 2 things he'll be doing, he picks the one he would actually want to keep.
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    The shard is precogging him as well, and knows which one he will keep. Worm is a purely deterministic universe. The shard doesn't need to auto-pilot him when it can just let the dominoes fall as they will, the only way they can, and get the same result.
     
    Vicjer said:
    So that's why his power has to put Coil on autopilot.
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    There's no need to ascribe anything to Coil's power beyond extremely accurate precognition and feeding him sensory information about a theoretical alternate timeline.

    His power already knows which timeline he will 'keep' because it predicted him doing so, it has no need to 'autopilot' him to take actions he's going to take on his own.

    To use your example:

    Coil decides to use his power and shoot/not shoot a man (timelines A and B).
    His power simulates the two timelines (with each being aware of the 'other' timeline just as Coil is when using his power) and the Coil in timeline B decides to end the timeline before the one in timeline A. His power ends the simulations, then feeds him the sensory information of being in timeline A in real-time so that he thinks he is in the 'kill' timeline, and -- since Worm is deterministic and the power's precognition so accurate -- he takes exactly the actions it predicted up to and including 'ending' the apparent alternate timeline.
     
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    People are already saying all the things I was gonna say on the subject, but I feel like I should chime in in support of "There's no autopilot function involved because there isn't a need for one".
     
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