A Finely Honed Blade [Worm/Kara no Kyoukai | Garden of Sinners]

newwriter · May 10, 2017

nextive said:
But he also has a brute rating from the enhancements Bonesaw gave everyone so it would be harder to take his head off than a normal person along with the fact that apparently as per Wildbow's own statement in a one on one fight against any other parahuman Jack would win.

True, but Taylor's MEDP are not a shard power. Jack would not be able to gets enhanced intuition regarding Taylor's power and the effects of his shard could easily just be killed by the effects of the MEDP just like how Tattletale's power were cut off due to the eyes.

Also, It does not matter how durable Jack Slash is. The only thing that limits Taylor's cutting ability is her imagination. If she believes that she can cut through and block Jack Slash's attacks than she can. If she thinks that she can cut Jack Slash's head off, than she can.

The Mystic Eyes of Death Perception are really OP.

UltimateGrr · May 10, 2017

nextive said:
But he also has a brute rating from the enhancements Bonesaw gave everyone so it would be harder to take his head off than a normal person along with the fact that apparently as per Wildbow's own statement in a one on one fight against any other parahuman Jack would win.

That's sort of the problem, since he wins fights he physically can't. It doesn't matter if you know the attack is coming if you physically can't get out of the way in time before it connects, either because the area of effect is too large for you to dodge or because the attack is simply too fast.

But WoG is that Jack can somehow do both because plot armor. Alexandria is both faster than him, and has faster reaction times, and is fully able to adjust her aim to turn Jack in to a smear on the wall faster than Jack's body can move to get out of the way, but Jack's plot armor means that he can somehow beat an opponent that holds every possible advantage over him because Wildbow needs him to live.

nextive · May 10, 2017

UltimateGrr said:
Snip

It's less plot armor and more skill and ability along with that by win he probably meant survive and escape/influence because as shown in canon Jack doesn't always win but he also never loses.

ensou · May 10, 2017

nextive said:
It's less plot armor and more skill and ability along with that by win he probably meant survive and escape/influence because as shown in canon Jack doesn't always win but he also never loses.

Once you're fast enough that your speed becomes measured in multiples of the speed of sound, there is no excuse for being unable to cream a mofo except plot armor.

Normal humans simply cannot react that quickly. If Jack's shard's neural response (as in, the feedback of shard -> brain -> processing -> motor cortex, at a neural impulse rate of 119 m/s) is slower than what you can move at (Mach 1 is 340.29 m/s, Mach 121, Alexandria's theoretically calculated top speed, is 41,503 m/s, as in 16km in the time it takes you to blink) there is literally no way he could get out of the way.

I really disliked his cockroachy ability to just survive and keep popping up. It felt contrived.

EDIT: The normal human reaction time to stimuli is around 0.15 - 0.25s. Let's cut that in half because brain interface. So 0.07s to react to the fact that someone's going to hit him. At Mach 1 you can cover 23.8m in that time, about half an Olympic swimming pool. At Mach 121, it's 2.9km. Within that distance, Alexandria would be able to kill him before he could do so much as twitch.

Gourd · May 10, 2017

ensou said:
Once you're fast enough that your speed becomes measured in multiples of the speed of sound, there is no excuse for being unable to cream a mofo except plot armor.

Normal humans simply cannot react that quickly. If Jack's shard's neural response (as in, the feedback of shard -> brain -> processing -> motor cortex, at a neural impulse rate of 119 m/s) is slower than what you can move at (Mach 1 is 340.29 m/s, Mach 121, Alexandria's theoretically calculated top speed, is 41,503 m/s, as in 16km in the time it takes you to blink) there is literally no way he could get out of the way.

I really disliked his cockroachy ability to just survive and keep popping up. It felt contrived.

Somehow, something something shard influence it would cause Taylor to hesitate and not kill him. I really dislike that Word of God, so please ignore it.

Teiwaz · May 10, 2017

You know what that means?
Knife fight!
Oh it's over already.
Ripip in piss Jacob you and your entire gang were/wear/where?(fuck english) edgy shitlords and all around bad plot devices.

UltimateGrr · May 10, 2017

gourdcaptain said:
Somehow, something something shard influence it would cause Taylor to hesitate and not kill him. I really dislike that Word of God, so please ignore it.

You can safely ignore pretty much all the WoG posts. Most are trolling shit posts while a good chunk of the rest either directly contradict what's presented in the main work, or contradict other WoG posts. The actually useful WoG posts usually expand upon things that are of such little consequence as to not matter in the long run (Rune not having a CID since she outed herself breaking out of juvie).

EDIT:

ensou said:
EDIT: The normal human reaction time to stimuli is around 0.15 - 0.25s. Let's cut that in half because brain interface. So 0.07s to react to the fact that someone's going to hit him. At Mach 1 you can cover 23.8m in that time, about half an Olympic swimming pool. At Mach 121, it's 2.9km. Within that distance, Alexandria would be able to kill him before he (or his shard) would know what was happening.

Just saw this edit while checking over my alerts, but I think @ensou is slightly over thinking it. Namely, reaction times are good and all, but regardless of how fast he can process the situation, Jack Slash is still made of meat. Bonesaw alterations or not, his body can only move so fast. As long as you can move faster than he can and perceive his attempts to dodge as he's starting them, you will hit him and there is nothing his shard can do but tell him how fucked he is.

Just look at the Rock Lee vs Sasuke fight during the Chunin Exam arc of Naruto. Sasuke saw every punch and kick coming a mile away thanks to his eyes, but was utterly dominated by Lee because he simply wasn't fast enough to do anything about the impending ass whooping his eyes told him was coming. The same holds true for Jack.

Or would if not for the plot armor.

Starfox5 · May 10, 2017

The S9 are stupid characters kept alive by author's fiat - usually "Cauldron lets them live because PtV". If Cauldron doesn't want them to live, they would be killed easily by the Triumvirate or Contessa. If Cauldron wants them to live, they'd be warned away from Brockton Bay.

The S9 usually wreck a story. Pointless Chaotic Evil Monsters who do horrible crimes for laughs. You can't reason with them, you can't negotiate with them, the best you can hope for is some stupid Joker-esque lines thrown around, and some cheaper pseudo-philosophy about the nature of evil or something thrown down. And of course, some pointless grimderp drama after characters people actually care about got killed.

If this was an RPG, then the S9 would be a non-sapient monster threatening the village, which the heroes need to kill since there is no other option. Unlike, say, if they were a band of sapient monsters or NPCs with goals beyond "carnage! Murder!", who can be negotiated and emphasised with.

ThePastryKing · May 10, 2017

Starfox5 said:
If this was an RPG, then the S9 would be a non-sapient monster threatening the village, which the heroes need to kill since there is no other option. Unlike, say, if they were a band of sapient monsters or NPCs with goals beyond "carnage! Murder!", who can be negotiated and emphasised with.

Of course, most players would also wind up converting at least one of the S9 members, likely Bonesaw, to chaotic good or something, because every group wants a mascot, and what's better than an adorable and horrific child surgeon?
(probably a lot of things, but meh)

Laurelin · May 10, 2017

ThePastryKing said:
Of course, most players would also wind up converting at least one of the S9 members, likely Bonesaw, to chaotic good or something, because every group wants a mascot, and what's better than an adorable and horrific child surgeon?
(probably a lot of things, but meh)

Well, Bonesaw's tragic backstory probably helps a lot with that.

Tisaku · May 10, 2017

Starfox5 said:
If this was an RPG, then the S9 would be a non-sapient monster threatening the village, which the heroes need to kill since there is no other option. Unlike, say, if they were a band of sapient monsters or NPCs with goals beyond "carnage! Murder!", who can be negotiated and emphasised with.

-Nah. They'd be the chaotic stupid 'enemy party' that the DM threw at the PC's because he was feeling sorry for how badly the campaign was stomping them and wanted to give them some loot and/or bonus XP.-

globalwarmth · May 10, 2017

ensou said:
Normal humans simply cannot react that quickly. If Jack's shard's neural response (as in, the feedback of shard -> brain -> processing -> motor cortex, at a neural impulse rate of 119 m/s) is slower than what you can move at (Mach 1 is 340.29 m/s, Mach 121, Alexandria's theoretically calculated top speed, is 41,503 m/s, as in 16km in the time it takes you to blink) there is literally no way he could get out of the way.

I really disliked his cockroachy ability to just survive and keep popping up. It felt contrived.

EDIT: The normal human reaction time to stimuli is around 0.15 - 0.25s. Let's cut that in half because brain interface. So 0.07s to react to the fact that someone's going to hit him. At Mach 1 you can cover 23.8m in that time, about half an Olympic swimming pool. At Mach 121, it's 2.9km. Within that distance, Alexandria would be able to kill him before he could do so much as twitch.

that's assuming that the thinker aspect of broacast does not work like a de facto precognition of intent. So in this case he would be dodging a tinker's laser before he even fully aims and pulls the trigger and with alexandria he would be jumping left, calling for a siberian hug, or for a vial of virus before she fully commits to charging him.

Starfox5 · May 10, 2017

ThePastryKing said:
Of course, most players would also wind up converting at least one of the S9 members, likely Bonesaw, to chaotic good or something, because every group wants a mascot, and what's better than an adorable and horrific child surgeon?
(probably a lot of things, but meh)

They would have to consider such a radical conversion possible in the first place. Plus, with Vista and Dinah, the mascot spot is likely already taken.

Laurelin said:
Well, Bonesaw's tragic backstory probably helps a lot with that.

Is that even known to the characters?

Genesys · May 10, 2017

I'd characterize the S9 as adventurer mindset without adventurer body - full murderhobo, but no massive improvements so all the newbs get shanked every now and then.

ThePastryKing · May 10, 2017

Starfox5 said:
They would have to consider such a radical conversion possible in the first place. Plus, with Vista and Dinah, the mascot spot is likely already taken.
Is that even known to the characters?

Why not have all the mascots? And with the way players rules lawyer, there is no way you could stop them from figuring stuff out. Stupid players being good with loopholes and practically metagaming.

Starfox5 · May 10, 2017

ThePastryKing said:
Why not have all the mascots? And with the way players rules lawyer, there is no way you could stop them from figuring stuff out. Stupid players being good with loopholes and practically metagaming.

But I doubt that most players would risk having Bonesaw as a mascot. Far too easy for the GM to roll, then go "you all wakeup dead; Riley decided that she wanted a few new pets and killed you in your sleep with a tailor-made neurotoxin before reconstructing you into Spider-bots".

A/N · May 10, 2017

Isn't Cauldron actively keeping the S9 around because they might be useful?

Laurelin · May 10, 2017

A/N said:
Isn't Cauldron actively keeping the S9 around because they might be useful?

Only partially. I believe they wanted Shatterbird and the Siberian against Scion, and only wanted Jack Slash once they learned he was to kick off the apocalypse in two years.

Ferdiad · May 10, 2017

In regards to the S9 I'm fairly sure they're role or threat has become vastly inflated through many iterations of fanon. What I understand is that their usual modus operandi is to hit small towns and sneak away before being caught. The whole challenge a city thing they did in Canon isn't something they do all the time.

5colouredwalker · May 10, 2017

Ferdiad said:
In regards to the S9 I'm fairly sure they're role or threat has become vastly inflated through many iterations of fanon. What I understand is that their usual modus operandi is to hit small towns and sneak away before being caught. The whole challenge a city thing they did in Canon isn't something they do all the time.

Considering the only time we saw them attack were the various small towns, SH9K which was it's own thing (And even then they mostly focused on middle sized towns at most instead anything larger.), and a Evacuated-Bombed Out-Leviathan Struck small city of 350K before the aforementioned events, I doubt they do to a big city without an astounding amount of prep work, or it already being f*cked. Making them the Worm equivalent of Roving Bandits that are oddly successful. Oddly in this case because they canonically have Cauldron/Contessa support.

So yea, I'd believe they're a little over-hyped.

Starfox5 · May 10, 2017

But even for overhyped bandits, the death toll is too high. shatterbird killed thousands in Dubai alone, as far as I remember, and the longer she is not caught/killed, the weaker the PRT Looks.

gigshare · May 10, 2017

I seem to remember that cauldron didn't really care what happens with the 9 they only cared about Shatterbird and the Siberian.

Twei · May 10, 2017

Yeah the nine are waaaaaay overhyped. Too much emphasis placed on them in the fandom (and maybe even late canon depending on who you ask). They killed what, six parahumans in Brockton Bay? And none of them were super heavy hitters. Cauldron doesn't have the time to deal with that shit, they're too busy solving five apocalypses over in Africa or something.

They're very successful, but I'm not sure they even really qualify as S-class most of the time. Of course, they could be, if pressed. But then, a surprising amount of capes in general could be pretty fucking devastating if pressed.

TarrierDrake · May 10, 2017

Starfox5 said:
Is that even known to the characters

Probably not. But we readers know and that is enough. The same thing happen with Amy.

5colouredwalker · May 10, 2017

Starfox5 said:
But even for overhyped bandits, the death toll is too high. shatterbird killed thousands in Dubai alone, as far as I remember, and the longer she is not caught/killed, the weaker the PRT Looks.

Cauldron literally calls Battery to say 'Make sure the 9 escape or else'.
They have canon plot armor.

gigshare said:
I seem to remember that cauldron didn't really care what happens with the 9 they only cared about Shatterbird and the Siberian.

I'll give a point there.

Twei said:
Yeah the nine are waaaaaay overhyped. Too much emphasis placed on them in the fandom (and maybe even late canon depending on who you ask). They killed what, six parahumans in Brockton Bay? And none of them were super heavy hitters. Cauldron doesn't have the time to deal with that shit, they're too busy solving five apocalypses over in Africa or something.

They're very successful, but I'm not sure they even really qualify as S-class most of the time. Of course, they could be, if pressed. But then, a surprising amount of capes in general could be pretty fucking devastating if pressed.

They do have time to deal with 'this shit', they take a minute to call Battery to make sure they escape, even taking the extra minute to clarrify that they want two particularly capes.

Also, Bonesaw is a walking Plauge. You can't kill her. The list of things that can more than mildly inconvinience Crawler is exceptionally small, and he figures out how to kill Glory Girl mid-combat with little effort, despite TT being the first and only other person to have pulled it off.

They are a walking S-Class. They just do less damage than they could.

A Finely Honed Blade [Worm/Kara no Kyoukai | Garden of Sinners]

The Supreme Ham

Magical G̶i̶r̶l̶ Servant Mordred-chan

Beloved of Adorjan.

Burnt Butter

Ain't got nothing better.

Head Chief Thinkomancer

ruining the weather.

(Discrete Mokona)

Burnt Butter

Ain't got nothing better.

I have a face!