Would you Distort or manifest EGO?


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This whole shell thing makes eventual collision with Nothing There kind of funny, by the way.

Fellow shell connoisseurs fighting each other. What a shame.

btw @Lepidoptera
Looking at the charimage; Is X's lab coat white by default, or Star's aesthetic changes difficult to portray?
 
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It was gratifying to scatter the accursed beasts into ashes, and if he was lucky his client might even pay extra for it. Assuming he actually found the second client, that is.
Ayin and Carmen? (Also, X and Nothing There don't seem to like Witches either, is it an Abnormality thing or a Light thing?)
In fact, it's thanks to them I got to come here at all!
Is it actually that (some form of request), or Homura doing her thing leading for X being able to come and Nothing There following (given the latest update and all).
Come to think of it. If it's not Kyubey, or Roland/Angela (Sidestory 5) making the aforementioned request, who is it? Ayin? Carmen? Or is it X somehow (since she's supposed to be the Floor Manager and would have some level of influence over the Abnormalities on the floor I believe)?

Speaking of Abnormalities and Floors, I wonder how the Abnormalities so far match up with X's experiences and/or the Floor of Geometry's gimmick hmm... (An Abnormality as a Patron Librarian must be an interesting sight)
Lastly, I don't think Interpretation is a new power so much as how Saplings come to be now being clear
 
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I'm pretty sure we'll be exchanging tips and complains before long. I'm sure Nothing There would absolutely jump on an occasion to be human without killing once we explain morality and why humans don't like being killed to her, I wouldn't be surprised if we adopted her (and am going to try and makes it so)
 
I oppose the idea of adopting it.

We already has enough on our plate in regards to X's seeming instability. We dont need to add another Aleph on top of it.

And what is it gonna do? Be extra muscles? It's EGO will be utilized far more efficiently when it is in our hands.

And more specifically. It has to give up all that shells and return to it's true self anyway. We will have to deal with 30+ traumatized kids too if they dont witch out so we dont need to add a monstrous thing like Nothing There ontop of that pile.

Its a hazard to the kids. It is also sadistic, psychopathic and possible a yandere.

I say we negotiate it into letting us use Lobotomy on her to disable her and offing her the moment we get the chance.

Edit: After thinking about it for a bit. I take it back. Perhaps there are some advantages to taking it in.
 
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As for a different something to talk about...how are we going to explain the hair?

Also, were the eyes always that shade of red?
 
As for a different something to talk about...how are we going to explain the hair?

Also, were the eyes always that shade of red?
Uh...Kyoko's mom is just trying out this new hip hair dye. Kyoko herself can attest! (Note: strong arm our wayward daughter to accept that we are her mom and she cant do anything about it.)

As for our eyes...I think it got brighter...we are actually similar to Carmom even more now with that shade. Though it might just be our hair making it seems brighter.
 
It is also sadistic, psychopathic and possible a yandere.

*Sigh*
I already said it, I think, but:

-She is not sadistic, she takes pleasure in seeing the emotions of those she keeps, not their suffering in particular, she grew up in a place made to be all suffering, all the time, she probably don't even realize that what they're feeling is not normal because it's basically the norm for her.

-She is not psychopathic, for one, the term is no longer actually used because of too many conflicting definitions over time, for two, she doesn't have human psychology in the first place and as such is not subject to the definition of human neuro typicality, she cannot have any human *mental disorders*.

-If she is Yandere for us, great, that means we can more easily steer her where we want, that's a perk, not a downside.

Also, were the eyes always that shade of red?

Pretty sure they always were.
 
I will never consider it as a she. Nor will I ever even consider the possibility of believing in a shapeshifting monster whose first instinct is to take someone's body and wear them as a skin.

The only thing NT is good for is EGO and fighting Gebura.
 
I will never consider it as a she. Nor will I ever even consider the possibility of believing in a shapeshifting monster whose first instinct is to take someone's body and wear them as a skin.

The only thing NT is good for is EGO and fighting Gebura.

So you think we should go and kill ourself, we are not that different from her, after all, we even have our own shell to interact with humans, the main thing is that we had a better education on how to human.

Edit:

As for instincts, consider this little gem from Paarthurnax in skyrim:
"What is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?"
 
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If anything, She is more like a curious child with no sense of Moreality, he is not actively malicious, it just wants to learn about human, from pleasure to suffering to everything in between, from emotion to internal organs.
This is why he takes organs and stuff it into itself, And this is why she wear skin, He knows human have skin, human have organs, and human have emotions, but she don't know how to achieve the latter half, so it just goes for easier choice and then mimics them to fit in and learns about it.
It knows human thinks death is very bad, but she don't care it wants to become human first then decides that he wants to care about those or not.
 
We can't die for one thing.

And for another, I wouldnt be opposed to having X return to the city if its clear that X is beginning to become a large threat to the girl.

Currently X isnt wearing the skin of 30+ children in order to pretty herself up.

NT is.

And thats all that matters. We know better. It does not.

It doesnt have knowledge on how to be human? Why should we risk the lifes of those under our care to protect a monster who is used to killing those who lives under our care?
 
eh, I would go for the friendly approach first, but I have no problem using the little sound of a star balls to crush her skull in
After all, he is a aleph level abno, bealing with it will be very difficult, so kill it will honestly be the easier choice.
 
It doesnt have knowledge on how to be human? Why should we risk the lifes of those under our care to protect a monster who is used to killing those who lives under our care?

I am going to point out the edit I was typing and searching the exact phrasing at the time:

As for instincts, consider this little gem from Paarthurnax in skyrim:

"What is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?"

Edit:

Rejecting people because they did a bad thing and you can't bother trying to help them is evil in my eyes, and this is basically what you want to do with her.
 
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We already have quite a lot of evidence in text that redeem is very much an option and that even if we don't go full letting her have her life we can simply ask her to go sapling, there is no need for any kill plan whatsoever.
 
More thoughts on the update, and after doing a partial reread.

First, comparing X to Nothing There is only looking at the surface level. Nothing There makes a shell so it can try to be human.

X is... odd. Alkahest isn't exactly X. Alkahest made X as a cage for itself. It lives through X vicariously. But it isn't X. And it doesn't quite seem to want to be human. X wants to be human, but Alkahest seems to just want to stop itself from causing rot and decay, and finds reducing itself to something close to human an acceptable price. X could kinda sympathetize with Nothing There, but Alkahest? Probably not.

And while people have been pointing out that Nothing There seems to want to help X, that's not unique to it. Almost all the Abnormalities we've encountered want to help. Some don't understand what they're doing isn't helping, but only Der Freischütz had a different motivation, and he still helped.

X wasn't the first Abnormality to land in this world. Army in Black and Blue Star both got here before her, and the Birds my have as well. Maybe they could've just been drawn here like X was, but that doesn't quite feel right, and we know that Der Freischütz was hire specifically for X to find and Observe. Part of me wonders if Alkahest hired him, but that seems shakey.

I'm wondering if X's denial is part of her roll as the cage for Alkahest. After all, if the only difference between X and Alkahest are their power and forms, Alkahest isn't locked away in any meaningful sense.

I'm still wondering why Abnormalities seem to find witches so disgusting that they attack them on sight. Der Freischütz was taking it a step further, he'd shoot for Soul Gems and crush Greif Seeds. I can sorta see why if we go by the story though. Those kids all made deals with the devil, he killed them before they destroyed what they loved and felt his anguish. Something like that. But even Nothing There despises witchs, there's some connection.

Maybe it's the Light? If we treat the pitch black Grief as an opposite, they might just hate them for being born from their inverse.

With the update information on Lobotomy, I'm confident we can help Nothing There's victims, as well as Hitomi if we can find her before she dies. Would mean they all get a more then healthy hit of Exposure, but it's better than the alternative.
 
Exposure seems to be merely exposure to "Cogito Ephemera" which just seems to be Light? Its not even the same colour as our own EGO/Abno colour, so its probably not directly related to us.

I don't have a problem with any level of Exposure, this is what the Seed of Light was made for, but on a world-wide level.
 
First, comparing X to Nothing There is only looking at the surface level. Nothing There makes a shell so it can try to be human.

Well, given that X is said surface level… :V

The main interest is that we made a cage that can contain ourself and I'm sure that NT would be interested in that, even if she probably will want to make modifications so that's it's not a cage to her.

Almost all the Abnormalities we've encountered want to help. Some don't understand what they're doing isn't helping, but only Der Freischütz had a different motivation, and he still helped.

And at this point I am beginning to wonder if the *exception* thar was Blue Star was actually an exception or if we caught her right as it was digesting the witch and it couldn't stop it's gravity, it turned into a Sapling too easily.

I'm still wondering why Abnormalities seem to find witches so disgusting that they attack them on sight.

It is indeed very interesting, from what we've seen, I am not even sure if the witch could count as Distortions either, but they definitely share similarities with them and I wonder if it influence our abnormalities.

With the update information on Lobotomy, I'm confident we can help Nothing There's victims, as well as Hitomi if we can find her before she dies.

Yeah, we have the ability to make them completely forget their trauma and experience and even to allow them to cope with it in an healthy way if you don't want to remove memories, they are going to be ok and we can take care of them.

By the way, I am also beginning to wonder if the abnormalities that arrived *before* us actually didn't, or more precisely, what if they actually got there from inside us before our entire weight could pass? The reason why they are that obedient to us could very well be because we are a projection of the facility that was their home.
 
Without a means to remove the grief themselves I don't think that would work. While we could it's a massive time investment, not suitable outside of downtime or for multitudes of clients.
On one hand, I'd like to point out that when using Alkahest on Homura there was no mention of the Grief actually going anywhere once X ripped it out of her (Chapter 2.13, Lobotomy). I think it might be possible for us to modify her light tree thing to do self-surgery and excise Grief on its own rather than merely repressing and hyperfocusing until it 'stops' being an issue.

Only real issues I see with it at the moment is that something about the Actualization Tech Tree might force its users to rely on external forces to purge Grief even if X does the self-surgery modification. That, and, as you said, time constraints and the effort that would go into the operation. As every Puella Magi is unique, and has a unique personality, what works to allow Homu's mind tree thing to cut away Grief probably wouldn't work with Mami's tree thing, especially because they have two very different reasons for their persistence and drive, so how they'd do self-surgery is probably different as well.

Alternatively... It did always rub me the wrong way that only negative emotion interacts with a Soul Gem. It almost feels like the Actualization Tech Tree was left unfinished, in a way. Maybe if we studied the differences between magical girls and non-magical girls on a mind tree thing level, we could try adding onto the system by making positive emotion interact with Soul Gems by purging Grief?? IDK. Just spitballing at this point.
On a semi-related note we may be able to "program" witches since they do have a neural network, just an ugly one.
This... I don't like this, but you're very much not wrong. An emptied Grief Seed isn't far from being a blank slate to build onto. Having automated 'Grief Drones' would be an interesting project. Not sure what we'd use them for, but it would certainly be a learning experience to try it considering what all that Grief does to the mind tree of the girl it comes from.

Maybe we can even figure out a way to make sure our kids can actually be brought back should they end up in the worst-case scenario of Witch. Make sure enough of them persists that we can just patch job them back together after excising all the Grief. Granted, ideally we never have to De-Witch one of the kids, but it's good to prepare.
Now that I mention it, how many people can we operate on at a time? While it wouldn't save time actually editing anything we do see the contents of anyone involved.
As X The Manager, probably only one or two because of how involved the process is, and the fact that she only has two hands and needs both just to work on one person. As X The Abnormality... Probably as many as many as she can focus on at any one moment. Which considering Lob Corp... Is a lot. I suspect she'd sooner run out of 'valid' targets than get bogged down trying to work on too much at once.

Don't know anything about alchemy so, from what I searched in google the alchemists thought that Alkahest dissolved everything into it's most basic form, their astral form. So a person becomes a soul (isn't that the same as dying?).

My question is: what did the alchemists gain from getting Alkahest? Did they become omnipotent? Is it just a nice way if dying?
From my google fu, there seems to be a generalized 4 step process to creating a Philosopher's Stone.
Step 1: Nigredo, the process of decomposition. Breaking down matter (Ideally using Alkahest) into the most basic states possible.
Step 2: Albedo, the process of separation and purification. Effectively extracting those basic materials from your Nigredo Slurry.
Step 3: Citrinitas, the process of improvement and awakening. Using some method or another to amplify the purified materials you extracted via Albedo, making them more than they used to be.
And finally, Step 4: Rubedo, making the philosopher's stone. Combining all your extracted and refined materials into a coherent whole, and completing The Great Work.

So that's pretty major on its own, but then I dug a bit deeper via Wikipedia and apparently those same terms can be used in relation to spirituality and psychology, particularly for the process of, (pulled from Wikipedia's page on Rubedo),

"Attaining Individuation, or the process that allows an individual to attain the integration of opposites, their transcendence, and finally emergence out of an undifferentiated unconsciousness. In an archetypal schema, rubedo represents the Self Archetype, and is the culmination of the four stages, the merging of ego and Self."

The merging of ego and Self

EGO and Self


Doesn't that sound like the end result of Carmen's dream, merely achieved using a different method than the Seed of Light?? Well, that or Distortion if done wrong but preferably not. IDK. I woke up at like 4am and found this set of replies so now... yeah. If I sound like a crazy crackpot theorist that's why.

Also, the whole Alkahest thing gives me a Probably Bad Idea. Abnormalities can synchronize and fuse together if their ideas mesh well enough, as we've seen with the bird trio. X is doing that to herself via the EGO equipment she's gathering. And we know the process is reversible via the bird trio. All I'm saying is that Pinks and Sword Sharpened With tears kind of feel like two sides of the same coin... and I wanna do fusion science with them.
 
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From my google fu, there seems to be a generalized 4 step process to creating a Philosopher's Stone.

Great Effortpost.

And with some interpretation the four steps also seem to correlate with how we deal with the Saplings.

1) Nigredo here would be where we turn an Abno into a Sapling.
2) Albedo would then correlate with getting the 3 Concepts that we have to gather before the EGO can be extracted.
3) Citrinitas would then be whatever is necessary to increase the Synchronization so it gets from "Very High" to "Integrating"
4) And Rubedo would then be what is currently happening with Pinks and A Sword Sharpened With Tears, with the result of the integration being whatever would be their Philosopher's Stone equivalent.

So it seems X is attempting the 4 step process with every Sapling we gain.

And in relation to that: Chapter 11 is called "The Alchemist and God"

wherin X faced Blue Star.
As a religious Abno this would make Blue Star the "God" in this scenario.
And by process of elimination X the Alchemist.

Maybe I am stretching here, but it is interesting how the Sapling mechanics can be somewhat mapped to the steps to completing The Great Work.
And sorry if this is somewhere obviously wrong. Am currently tired, but just really found the similarities I saw worth pointing out.
 
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