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“Human Resources” Shouldn’t Be This Literal: A PMMM/ProjectMoon Quest

Would you Distort or manifest EGO?

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diplomacy said:
Apparently Homura's the ultimate villain
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Well, it's not like Homura *knows* about the exact mechanics of how her time travel works, right? (Besides, talking about time travel mechanics rapidly gets extremely messy, as this page or 2 of discussion has shown)


E: Only Madokami knows for sure how souls and timelines etc etc interact, any more is just speculation - not even X has the tools to confirm for sure
 
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Lurker183839 said:
By the logic wouldn't Sayaka and co have increased Potential too?
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This would only apply to Sayaka, as Mami and Kyouko have already Wished at that point, and more potential wouldn't let them Wish again or boost them retroactively.

As for Sayaka, as far as I know, the reason is because its karmic. Sayaka is not the reason and meaning of why Homura loops and thus carries her own karma, thus she is less afflicted by the cause and effect web (karma). While Madoka is the whole or most of the reason, the why and the further influence on the looping.

Meanwhile how has Sayaka affected them? So its not a lot.

Edit: One more thing for multiversal souls. Think about what it means that its universe hopping and that Homura always wakes in a body she has to fix her eyes for in the hospital.

What do you think happens to the Homura of a universe she warps into? Unless its a multiversal soul, she'd be deleting or displacing any Homura soul she enters the world of too.
 
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Re WN: this isn't new, and it's not like we'll get a choice the way things are going lol

Valkhir said:
Meanwhile how has Sayaka affected them?
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I mean, her spiral at the end is a big part on them discovering the truth of Witches, which p much inevitably causes Madoka to Wish, or Kyouko to die etc? Besides, a non-trivial amount over like ~100 loops is still going to add up

E: Calculations fixed
 
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Lurker183839 said:
Well, it's not like Homura *knows* about the exact mechanics of how her time travel works, right?
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That and as I said: she isn't killing anyone, she's just leaving the current universe and going to another, the old one doesn't disappear, she isn't killing humanity every time she loops.

In fact, given how she works and what she wants, I doubt that most loops ends with a gretchen, it probably ends mostly with Homura losing to walpurigisnacht and leaving after it killed Madoka.
 
In this version of Canon at least, Homura does not jump timelines but instead resets the same one. Partially because I think manipulating the flow of time in general makes more sense as a centralized theme for her Magic than Time Stop + Timeline Jumps (especially since I've categorized interdimensional travel as separate from time manipulation), and partially because some things just feel needlessly depressing. PMMM strikes a good balance of depression and optimism normally, but thousands of timelines full of dead people is a bit too far to one end for me and is just less pleasant a read in my mind.

questioningmeme said:
So...

Wait...

We absolutely cannot let Whitenight touch any of the girls then.
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I mean, we already know Apostles don't get reset by time manipulation. Once you're Blessed, it's there forever.
 
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Lurker183839 said:
I mean, her spiral at the end is a big part on them discovering the truth of Witches, which p much inevitably causes Madoka to Wish, or Kyouko to die etc? Besides, a non-trivial amount over like 1000s of loops is still going to add up
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I meant more that for example Madoka having Homura kill her as to not turn into Gretchen caused a permanent psychological change (damage) to Homura, entangling them more in karma, changing the entire course of the loops and all futures derived from them.

Thats a kind of meta effect over all future timelines instead of one timeline.

Edit: Well, QM has spoken in this instance. No Iori or Identity and Homura interaction then though.
 
Lepidoptera said:
In this version of Canon at least, Homura does not jump timelines but instead resets the same one. Partially because I think manipulating the flow of time in general makes more sense as a centralized theme for her Magic than Time Stop + Timeline Jumps (especially since I've categorized interdimensional travel as separate from time manipulation), and partially because some things just feel needlessly depressing. PMMM strikes a good balance of depression and optimism normally, but thousands of timelines full of dead people is a bit too far to one end for me and is just less pleasant a read in my mind.
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Your choice, just a precision though:

There aren't thousands of timelines, Homura was only around 100 when canon happened.
 
I would hesitate to call a soul multiversal
The template of a soul yes but not the soul in and of itself
It's like saying an OS for computer is all one thing when in reality it's the same iteration so to speak

And lep don't worry too much
Those universes are arguably still alive especially homuras earliest ones
Gretchen ain't so inflated in them and arguably humanity is too useful of a template to fully discard and cube probably recreate humanity elsewhere to ensure they can still keep a harvest
 
If you wanted to avoid too depressing stuff, its a brave decision to cross PMMM and Project Moon.

I don't really get the depressing feeling tho, so eh.
 
Valkhir said:
If you unmake a world through time travel, it doesn't add more weight to something, unless what connects is something still real.
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Uh, what? I thought precisely because you unmake a world through time travel, do you gain the weight to add to something.

I think it's like confusing the Nth member of a series with the sum of the first N members, if that makes sense.

Valkhir said:
Also, Wraith Arc Homura literally travelled back into a world that still has Gretchen in it after it ate humanity, so. That's pretty convincing. Thank the manga and canon.
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Is that what happened? I thought it was her destroying the last remnant of the witch-verse that was sealed inside of her shield, as a side effect of her remembering everything. Wraith Arc is very confusing.

Anyway, Netzach was right, I'll go get high on Enkephalin or something, brb...
 
Kalibrius said:
I would hesitate to call a soul multiversal
The template of a soul yes but not the soul in and of itself
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I mean, Madokami was a multiversal being by the end, and she comments on now knowing what all the others Madoka knew, which implies that they do have a connection.

Also, souls have to be multiversal for Homura's wish to even work in canon, since she travels between universes and that would mean that she cannot save her Madoka right from the get go if they are not the same being in some way, which requires multiversal souls in the first place.
 
diplomacy said:
Uh, what? I thought precisely because you unmake a world through time travel, do you gain the weight to add to something.
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Elaborating:
Homura is time travelling because of Madoka and only Madoka (at least, later on).
Since this is an entire branch of possibilities now forever gone, each time is quite the amount of Potential to add.

E: Resetting the timeline works just fine for her Wish, since it's still the same Madoka in that case?
Regarding Madokami, I mean, she wanted Witches to disappear in literally every single possibility out there and probably even those that no longer exist for various reasons, so that isn't really a surprise? It's already known that Madokami breaks a lot of formerly ironclad rules to begin with
 
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Do you mind restating the order of logic that you used to conclude that Homura is timeline jumping in Canon? Kindof hard to argue properly when our implication arrows are all over the place

It's also possible that in timeline jumping the Wish interpreted it as something "close enough" would suffice, after all
 
By the way I just realized extra horror, Project Moon only. No PMMM required.

Since Leviathan has actual alternate timelines more prominent, if I recall correctly, than just Iori's personal stuff, it does mean that that plus R Corp's, W Corp's and L Corp's time fuckery horror shows are multiplied by an unknown, possibly near infinite amount in totality.

Fun.
 
Ah thought the vote was between whether we end up in the library or with carmen, in that case changing my vote.
[X] "Oh. I will admit, I was expecting that to take longer."
 
Valkhir said:
unknown, possibly near infinite amount in totality
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Ayin after hearing this: "I just wanted the City's people to have a chance of becoming better..."

Cue Hod Meltdown, Ayin version :V

But yes this is a good reminder that the topic of timelines and suffering are ...very academic in most cases, and not something worth thinking about

Time to move on it is!
 
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Valkhir said:
If you wanted to avoid too depressing stuff, its a brave decision to cross PMMM and Project Moon.
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I mean, you can make the argument that both works have the theme of "yes, the world sucks, but at least one protagonist looks at the suckage and they say fuck that, we're working to fix this." There's enough hope counteracting the despair that it avoids reaching the critical threshold of "Wait, why am I spending my time reading/watching/playing this if all it does it make me feel bad?"
There's hope in PMMM with Madoka's final wish until Rebellion shows the consequences of leaving behind someone who spent a decade of time loops trying to save you, with all the mental trauma that entails.
There's hope in Project Moon's works because even if the City is still a shit place to live, the effects of the Seed of Light and Angela redirecting her vengeance against the Head give a tiny ray of hope that things could change one day.
 
Comsidering the nature of madokas wish
Ain't that surprising that she had enough weight to become the spiritual equivalent of a sun or star
And with homura
Pretty sure she's doing a a layered existence melding
Basically it is all homura but much like paper mario from supermario paper jam
She's basically multiple homuras all stacked together in a coherent existence with the others likely 'covered' by Homura 0 let's call with others possibly beco.. com... ing
The clara doll proto types as demonstrated by homuras doppel
WOW
I did not see that until just now
Well played developers, well played

Edit
Also if alternate timelines exist
Then that means the bad ends exist as well
Imagine seeing the various X bad end futures, as well as Angela and Rolands bad end futures
They're now also cannon
 
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