Lurker183839
Question Machine Gun
Speaking of Ordeals, any guesses as to Abnos we will need to puzzle-piece them together?
How so? Haven't played the game myself
“Human Resources” Shouldn’t Be This Literal: A PMMM/ProjectMoon Quest
- Thread starter Lepidoptera
- Start date
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- Tags
- library of ruina lobotomy corporation project moon puella magi madoka magica eldritch horror magical girl crossover eldritch protagonist female protagonist fluffy gore non-human protagonist suffering violence discussion is always good civ good decisions identity crises nuclear moth detected parenting powers activate
questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
You know...looking at it.
Isnt it a bit creepy with how we are using Lobotomy to basically edit the personalities of the girls? Like...this feels wrong.
Theres a famous strategy to defeat WN by getting him in the information department and spawning the green midnight to kill him.
Its a bit of a pain, but its one of the "easiest" method to murder WN. (Personally speaking, I find fighting him the normal way easier.)
Isnt it a bit creepy with how we are using Lobotomy to basically edit the personalities of the girls? Like...this feels wrong.
Last Helix has the biggest HP bar in the game, (outside of apocalypse Bird) at 22k which is almost double WN's, its beam attack do 12-20 black damage around five times in 1 second while slowing anything caught in its beam by 50%.
Theres a famous strategy to defeat WN by getting him in the information department and spawning the green midnight to kill him.
Its a bit of a pain, but its one of the "easiest" method to murder WN. (Personally speaking, I find fighting him the normal way easier.)
Ok, the way it works is that when White Night breach, he get into a main room and stays here, never moving from it. The last Helix meanwhile is a giant laser doomsday clock that always spawn in the information main room and don't move either, always keeping one of it's lasers going up, and it does a lot of black damages. Now, the trick is to let White Night breach and hope he gets in the correct room when you see that you are going to get a Green Midnight ordeal (which is the last helix), you do that, make the last helix appear, and then you *just* have to keep at least one of your agents alive while the giant laser slowly kills White Night, dodging the apostles all the while.
Edit:
Here's a video of someone doing it:
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I think at that point she's more likely to Distort, which IIRC is an objectively superior result since OOC we know it can be reversed and IC it deals with Light and EGO which are kind of X's bread and butter, rather than Grief and Soul Gems which she has no goddamn idea how to work beyond the bare basics she's figured out via ripping Grief away and mildly destructive testing on a Grief Seed.
IIRC it was explicitly stated that X deliberately avoided changing anything, merely bolstering mental resilience. Like, uh. Wired Reflexes in shadowrun. As I understand it, it's some kind of surgical process to boost reaction speed. They don't change how you react to something, only how quickly you do it. Similar distinction.
Like if X raised someone's Justice, I'm pretty sure it would merely be changing how quickly they can make snap decisions, not what those snap decisions are in a given situation. If that helps any? Still a bit iffy to be doing on kids, but notably less so than outright personality alteration.
questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
It's like body modification, which isn't that much better. We should at least consult them on the augments we are giving them. Like, Mami might consent to it, but I slightly feel she isn't aware of what we are doing.
I was iffy at first, but after Nyarky's comment on us just upgrading Mami's Prudence, I feel like we need to have a conversation with Mami on this.
At the very least, I want Mami to truly understand what Lobotomy is truly about. Just referring to it as an "upgrade" made me feel too much like X is some sort of soft Bondrewd.
This is just pointless worry about Lobotomy being too convenient again. But I genuinely feel like Lobotomy is getting a bit...creepy...the more we use it.
Are we even aware of what the modifications are? Are they soul modifications, physical augments like a brain implant, or some sort of advanced mind control?
Worse yet, all these things Lobotomy does to the girls, are irreversible by ANYONE but X. That one makes me even more unnerved.
At the very least, X needs to make some sort of failsafe so that the girls can just get rid of our mods themselves without relying on us.
I was iffy at first, but after Nyarky's comment on us just upgrading Mami's Prudence, I feel like we need to have a conversation with Mami on this.
At the very least, I want Mami to truly understand what Lobotomy is truly about. Just referring to it as an "upgrade" made me feel too much like X is some sort of soft Bondrewd.
This is just pointless worry about Lobotomy being too convenient again. But I genuinely feel like Lobotomy is getting a bit...creepy...the more we use it.
Are we even aware of what the modifications are? Are they soul modifications, physical augments like a brain implant, or some sort of advanced mind control?
Worse yet, all these things Lobotomy does to the girls, are irreversible by ANYONE but X. That one makes me even more unnerved.
At the very least, X needs to make some sort of failsafe so that the girls can just get rid of our mods themselves without relying on us.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Yes? It's incredibly wrong. Like holy fuck, at some point X is probably going to go digging around in someone's head and cut out memories and/or directly change their personality. And with everything heading to Mitakihara, it might be the best course of action for everyone involved. If identity death counts we might get Save that way.
It's also kinda too late to worry about it. As far as the kids are concerned, we have no objective way to measure how much influence X by way of א has had on their minds in universe and out. And the stake are rising ever higher so we're probably going to need to keep using it and Orders.
Things aren't too bad now, but the city is likely to get worse and worse as the month goes on. Once it gets bad enough? It's as X though about Kyoko: we might not have the luxury of morals. Which is going to suck, because the more emotionally unstable X gets, the more she cracks and א's influence slips out. Which could make things even worse, leading to a vicious cycle. א made a Cage of it's own EGO for a reason.
questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
Still. The girls should atleast be made more aware of it.
And again, X should try to build in some failsafe to reset the modifications back to default...although thats risky too.
And again, X should try to build in some failsafe to reset the modifications back to default...although thats risky too.
Uhm, why?
This is something I don't agree with. If we're going to modify minds, how about we don't introduce a vulnerability. That way we'd get the worst of both. Unprotected and ethically dubious at once.
I'd rather just run with it and make good use of it, instead of worrying about it, and potentially coming out worse.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Sure, that's one of the things we're talking about tomorrow. Assuming something doesn't explode.
What would the benefit of such an action be? X isn't playing with their brains, what's she's doing is very precise. It's the nature of Lobotomy to only change what X desires.
Hmm, I wonder if Lobotomy counts as an EGO gift, and it's something א gave her?
- Location
- Somewhere
Got a brainwave re: modifying memories.
We know that Madoka dreams of prior timelines OOC.
And also that she draws up her actual Magical Girl outfit from her sketchbook somewhere near the beginnning of the original canon.
Could. Could X turn these subconscious memories into conscious ones?
While avoiding to do the same to memories of her being Gretchen, of course.
Would make the whole "telling Madoka and have her believe us" at some later date kinda trivially easy.
---
I have ideas regarding that.
I think it has to to with resonance, or rather "which of the Midnights does it relate closest to".
So I'd speculate:
Eternal Meal : anyone to do with eating, hunger, survival like Big and Will be Bad Wolf, The Mountain of Smiling Bodies, Fairy Festival, Nosferatu, King of Greed, etc.
Helix of the End: Machines, Despair and large groups joined in a common cause I'd guess: Army in Black, Knight of Despair, Scorched Girl, Dream of a Black Swan, All-Around Helper etc.
God Delusion: Religious Abno's, Incomprehensible Abno's, maybe cosmic Abno's like Fragment of the Universe, Blue Star, Silent Orchestra, Dimensional Refraction Variant, WhiteNight and so on
THE CLAW: The Black Forest Birds, Apocalypse Bird, maybe those who can be hired would relate to the Fixer Ordeals like Der Freischütz or Little Red Riding Hooded Mercenary.
We'll of course not need everything from a list to complete one I'd guess.
But those would be some more and some less likely candidates for the Midnight Pieces I'd say.
Also agree that we'll need more than one Abno per Agent. Otherwise the name of Last Helix would not be missing letters, at least IMHO.
We know that Madoka dreams of prior timelines OOC.
And also that she draws up her actual Magical Girl outfit from her sketchbook somewhere near the beginnning of the original canon.
Could. Could X turn these subconscious memories into conscious ones?
While avoiding to do the same to memories of her being Gretchen, of course.
Would make the whole "telling Madoka and have her believe us" at some later date kinda trivially easy.
---
I have ideas regarding that.
I think it has to to with resonance, or rather "which of the Midnights does it relate closest to".
So I'd speculate:
Eternal Meal : anyone to do with eating, hunger, survival like Big and Will be Bad Wolf, The Mountain of Smiling Bodies, Fairy Festival, Nosferatu, King of Greed, etc.
Helix of the End: Machines, Despair and large groups joined in a common cause I'd guess: Army in Black, Knight of Despair, Scorched Girl, Dream of a Black Swan, All-Around Helper etc.
God Delusion: Religious Abno's, Incomprehensible Abno's, maybe cosmic Abno's like Fragment of the Universe, Blue Star, Silent Orchestra, Dimensional Refraction Variant, WhiteNight and so on
THE CLAW: The Black Forest Birds, Apocalypse Bird, maybe those who can be hired would relate to the Fixer Ordeals like Der Freischütz or Little Red Riding Hooded Mercenary.
We'll of course not need everything from a list to complete one I'd guess.
But those would be some more and some less likely candidates for the Midnight Pieces I'd say.
Also agree that we'll need more than one Abno per Agent. Otherwise the name of Last Helix would not be missing letters, at least IMHO.
questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
To allow the kids a chance to be themselves and not what ever EX rank combat monster the excessive modification will turn them into.
Talking as the mom of Mami, the idea that Mami will be stuck using Lobotomy's mosifcations as a crutch for the rest of her life without her growing up on her own, utterly infuriates me.
They should be given a choice to be able to turn back. Doesnt matter if its useful for us or not. For fuck sake, we are supposed to be their mom, not their manager.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
That sounds very risky. Not totally against it mind, but it'd be risky. And we'd have to find out that's even happening.
If you want an undo button, that's something X can do themselves. Remember, Lobotomy only changes what X wants to change. If X or the kids want to go back, X can do it. Building one into the modification doesn't serve much purpose besides adding a weakness someone, or something, could exploit. Admittedly a small risk, but an unnecessary one.
Also, continuing on the thought from above.
I wonder if X is supposed to be a way to create a successor to א? It's not integrating parts of other Abnormalities, X is. א is incomplete,but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's not done, or not as complete as it can be. א might be more of a prototype, and X would be the final or at least the next version of themselves. Right now X could be meant to gather up parts of other Abnormalities, א included, and become an Abnormality that can both make choices like a human can, and doesn't hurt anyone as part of its nature.
questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
Theres no need to wonder when its literally set in stone.
X is א, but can actually interact with humans. The facility gets stronger with more abnormalities. Therefore א will too gets stronger with every sapling.
The mechanic of gaining more power from א is just our shell being weakened/X being more aware of herself and stop suppressing her own self.
The mechanic of the abnormalities E.G.O is just X/א playing manager.
Why try to become something she already is?
Eternal_0bserver
(Unverified Bookworm)
- Location
- Earth, Northern Europe
I perceive X rather as something like an avatar for א. X is able to interact with the outside world directly, and it's slightly different being an adapted version, but ultimately they are the same thing. However, I wonder if X can replicate his wings to pass as an EGO weapon, and what properties it will have.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
I view X and א as entirely different entities. If they ever talked to each other they'd probably agree on a lot of things, but X is X and א is א. If they're the same, then why are thoughts that resonate with א colored? Surely they'd think all the same things and every thought would be in א's color, or not colored at all. Traces of Red as a skill/ability wouldn't make sense either.
questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
X is א. Arguing otherwise is like trying to say that Plague Doctor and Whitenight are two different entities, or that the Sephirahs and the patron librarians are two different entities.
Traces of red is because we are using Kali's body. That one is beyond obvious. Or do you think the Manager would some how have traces of Red even though canonically, X would more likely has traces of A?
I will give you the colored thoughts, but that can also be easily explained as X's trueself and the intrusive thoughts of her obsessive care as a Manager leaking through.
X is א. All the way from the first chapter where א crafted its own shell and flung itself away from the light. א calling itself X is just an attempt of the abnormality to has an idendity to identify it's humanself as.
The truth is. X, the Ayin clone, joined Ayin in the light.
The X we know is more likely, just a fake persona/copy created by א so that it can roleplay as a caretaker again.
Traces of red is because we are using Kali's body. That one is beyond obvious. Or do you think the Manager would some how have traces of Red even though canonically, X would more likely has traces of A?
I will give you the colored thoughts, but that can also be easily explained as X's trueself and the intrusive thoughts of her obsessive care as a Manager leaking through.
X is א. All the way from the first chapter where א crafted its own shell and flung itself away from the light. א calling itself X is just an attempt of the abnormality to has an idendity to identify it's humanself as.
The truth is. X, the Ayin clone, joined Ayin in the light.
The X we know is more likely, just a fake persona/copy created by א so that it can roleplay as a caretaker again.
Huh, we did? We asked her, told her what it would require, she agreed.
And for what I think on mind modifications: just look at my signature, more specifically, the quotes from eclipse phase *your mind is software, program it*, I have no problems with that kind of things.
Actually, I am getting annoyed at this topic coming up again and again, we were told lobotomy is safe, WE are the ones who decides what it does, it is not a trap. You don't want us to mind rape anyone? Just vote not to mind rape with lobotomy, there, done. You want to not look at their most intimate memories? Vote to not look too much when we use it, done. You want to increase their sanity bar without touching anything else? THAT'S LITERALLY WHAT WE DID WITH MAMI.
Ok, yeah, it seems we will never see eye to eye on this because my opinion couldn't be more opposed to you on this, they have a tool to get better, why in all hell would it be a bad thing to use it?
One of parents' duties is to give their children the tools to live a happy life, making their minds more resilient to trauma is 100% a good thing for this.
You do know they actually do this distinction in canon, right? Talking of it as previous life and all.
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Lurker183839
Question Machine Gun
I wonder what the Ayin bonus would be:
Having A Trio helping (?) us?
Since if X managed to melt into the Light, I really wonder what happened to the rest of Ayin's personalities
E: It's very likely that there'll be a narrative difference between gaining mental resistance / Agent stats by earning them and by whatever Lobotomy does - most likely in *how* it manifests, so this should be kept in mind I believe
Having A Trio helping (?) us?
Since if X managed to melt into the Light, I really wonder what happened to the rest of Ayin's personalities
E: It's very likely that there'll be a narrative difference between gaining mental resistance / Agent stats by earning them and by whatever Lobotomy does - most likely in *how* it manifests, so this should be kept in mind I believe
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Sorry for the interrupt, but I decided to compile the storybook bits into one post for viewing ease and pleasure. Cleaned it up a bit too, where I thought little bits were lacking. Still giving each part its own spoiler but yeah.
I considered doing a Super Special Part 6 Addendum covering the Sephirah and X's thoughts on them but it really wasn't coming together. At all. So enjoy the 'full' book, I guess!
Once upon a time, there was a City without a name. Just the one, for humanity had nearly destroyed itself long ago, and The City was all that was left. The world outside had become a cold, dangerous place no normal person could hope to survive. Despite this, The City thrived. Though many of the old world's marvels were lost, many more still remained. Food and water could be made on a whim. Disease was a distant memory. Any man or woman could be made strong enough to tear steel with their hands.
But despite it all, the world was cruel, and its people crueler still. Even with all the wonders the world had left, The City either couldn't or wouldn't provide for all its people. Humanity had been given Wings and flight, but they still had to struggle in the dirt for whatever scraps they could find. Quickly, they turned on themselves and one another, starting a painful cycle overseen and controlled by the Head of The City, protected by its Eyes and Claws.
And so it was. People starved and suffered and died. Those who had everything forgot how to dream, for they wanted nothing when they had all they needed to persist. Those who had nothing forgot how to hope, for every day was a painful process with no way to know if they'd live or die. Humanity survived, but we forgot how to live as The City began to rot.
That is, until a man met a woman, and decided he loved her.
But despite it all, the world was cruel, and its people crueler still. Even with all the wonders the world had left, The City either couldn't or wouldn't provide for all its people. Humanity had been given Wings and flight, but they still had to struggle in the dirt for whatever scraps they could find. Quickly, they turned on themselves and one another, starting a painful cycle overseen and controlled by the Head of The City, protected by its Eyes and Claws.
And so it was. People starved and suffered and died. Those who had everything forgot how to dream, for they wanted nothing when they had all they needed to persist. Those who had nothing forgot how to hope, for every day was a painful process with no way to know if they'd live or die. Humanity survived, but we forgot how to live as The City began to rot.
That is, until a man met a woman, and decided he loved her.
The man, Ayin, was a genius. Few could call themselves his equal, and fewer his better. He could work life-changing miracles with what he knew, for he knew many things, and had mastered many skills in his life. And yet for all he knew, and all he was capable of? There wasn't a thing Ayin could do to fix the broken shell some called a world, and no miracle he could conceive that was large or grand enough to break the cycle that had consumed The City. So he chose to do nothing. To be nothing, and drift along like countless others.
Then he met her. Carmen. She was passionate and bright, a glorious sun in Ayin's cold and dark world. She warmed his heart, and he loved her dearly. Carmen told him of her ambitions, her dream, that one day she could make the world a happier place. He thought it was foolish, for one woman with a dream cannot hope to match the weight of humanity, and trying would just lead to failure in the end. No, Ayin didn't believe in the dream, but he believed in her, and so he followed, becoming the moon to her sun as he basked in her radiance.
One became two, and two became many more as her hope and passion began to spread like a fire. Carmen's idea was rather simple, all told. If people could truly understand themselves and each other, then maybe The City could become a kinder place. All they needed was a way to plant that seed of positivity-that Seed of Light-into the hearts of the people. Together, the team tried to make it so, no matter what it might cost. It was harsh and slow, the work of a lifetime or maybe several. But few had anything else worth doing, and none were willing to give up on something so meaningful.
Ayin finally had someone he loved, who warmed his heart that had once been cold, and showed him a world that could be bright and beautiful. He had something to do, to be instead of another aimless drifter, purpose he had once lacked. He was surrounded by companions who had been inspired like him, to try and change the world. Life was finally worth living, and Ayin found joy in every moment.
...Although he dearly wished otherwise, it would not last.
Then he met her. Carmen. She was passionate and bright, a glorious sun in Ayin's cold and dark world. She warmed his heart, and he loved her dearly. Carmen told him of her ambitions, her dream, that one day she could make the world a happier place. He thought it was foolish, for one woman with a dream cannot hope to match the weight of humanity, and trying would just lead to failure in the end. No, Ayin didn't believe in the dream, but he believed in her, and so he followed, becoming the moon to her sun as he basked in her radiance.
One became two, and two became many more as her hope and passion began to spread like a fire. Carmen's idea was rather simple, all told. If people could truly understand themselves and each other, then maybe The City could become a kinder place. All they needed was a way to plant that seed of positivity-that Seed of Light-into the hearts of the people. Together, the team tried to make it so, no matter what it might cost. It was harsh and slow, the work of a lifetime or maybe several. But few had anything else worth doing, and none were willing to give up on something so meaningful.
Ayin finally had someone he loved, who warmed his heart that had once been cold, and showed him a world that could be bright and beautiful. He had something to do, to be instead of another aimless drifter, purpose he had once lacked. He was surrounded by companions who had been inspired like him, to try and change the world. Life was finally worth living, and Ayin found joy in every moment.
...Although he dearly wished otherwise, it would not last.
...There was a shell of a man that called himself Ayin. All it had taken was a single mistake, a single error, and then the sun, in all her brilliance...
...Was snuffed out like the candle she never was. Most of their companions had followed soon after, some by the will of The City they'd wished to save, some by his own negligence. Ayin was lucky to survive, but in exchange he lost the spark that had given him life. Most would break after what had happened, but he had once promised Carmen that he would make the dream a reality, and though he didn't believe in the dream? He still believed in her, even now. And so his work continued, no matter how much it tore away at him, piece by piece.
Even when he had to start from scratch, with only embers and scrap to rebuild what had been lost.
Even when in a fit of grief, he built a machine to continue her legacy, her memories present even if little else was.
Even when he grew to hate what he had built, for she had taken on a life and soul of her own, and could never be the woman he had loved.
Even when his dearest friend, his brother in all but name and blood finally abandoned him, having seen all the terrible things he was willing to do in the name of a dream that could no longer be worth the sacrifice.
Even when he found himself alone, at the top of the world. Given all he needed to finish her work, but lacking the one thing he truly wanted.
Even when he dragged the ghosts of past friends back into the world, in hopes of making up for all the ways he had wronged them when the sun burned out.
...Even when he forged a hell on earth out of his embers and scrap, filled it with the most great and terrible horrors he could imagine, and locked himself within to reach for a dream that was never truly his.
...Was snuffed out like the candle she never was. Most of their companions had followed soon after, some by the will of The City they'd wished to save, some by his own negligence. Ayin was lucky to survive, but in exchange he lost the spark that had given him life. Most would break after what had happened, but he had once promised Carmen that he would make the dream a reality, and though he didn't believe in the dream? He still believed in her, even now. And so his work continued, no matter how much it tore away at him, piece by piece.
Even when he had to start from scratch, with only embers and scrap to rebuild what had been lost.
Even when in a fit of grief, he built a machine to continue her legacy, her memories present even if little else was.
Even when he grew to hate what he had built, for she had taken on a life and soul of her own, and could never be the woman he had loved.
Even when his dearest friend, his brother in all but name and blood finally abandoned him, having seen all the terrible things he was willing to do in the name of a dream that could no longer be worth the sacrifice.
Even when he found himself alone, at the top of the world. Given all he needed to finish her work, but lacking the one thing he truly wanted.
Even when he dragged the ghosts of past friends back into the world, in hopes of making up for all the ways he had wronged them when the sun burned out.
...Even when he forged a hell on earth out of his embers and scrap, filled it with the most great and terrible horrors he could imagine, and locked himself within to reach for a dream that was never truly his.
Once, there was a place in The City. A structure that none had entered and none had left since the day it was built. The people outside knew it as Facility X-394, just another building in a vast, dangerous City. The people within knew it as Hell on Earth, a twisted place where death was an illusion and time lost all meaning.
Contained within were monsters beyond comprehension, spawned from the darkness of humanity and the sins of The City. Though they were prisoners here, the creatures were not the ones who suffered. No, it was the wardens that took on that burden, as ghosts from a past there was no one left to remember.
Ayin had taken the ghosts with him when he locked himself away, and made them the wardens of his hellish prison. Clad in steel, their purpose was to face the fears that had once broken them. To fight their pain, and one day make peace with it. All of this, for the sake of building a brighter future for which no cost was too great.
But the ghosts could never find the tranquility they needed to peacefully move on from the world alone, and Ayin was the only one left who could help them. He tried many times, but life had long ago beaten out of him much of the faith and kindness he needed, and so his attempts were doomed from the start.
Still, the man had long ago decided that nothing was sacred in the name of this endeavor, not even his life. If he could not complete the work, burdened by the pain that weighed on his heart? Then he would tear himself apart, and make an Ayin untouched by the past. An Ayin who might believe in the dream the same way he believed in Carmen.
And so he let himself fall and shatter, hoping the fragments could finish what had been started oh so long ago. The man named Ayin died, and the shards made in his image took his place. Together, they and the wardens toiled alongside a mechanical woman who had been loathed by her creator, for years and decades and maybe more in a place where even grass was a distant memory.
A place where the sunlight could not reach...
Contained within were monsters beyond comprehension, spawned from the darkness of humanity and the sins of The City. Though they were prisoners here, the creatures were not the ones who suffered. No, it was the wardens that took on that burden, as ghosts from a past there was no one left to remember.
Ayin had taken the ghosts with him when he locked himself away, and made them the wardens of his hellish prison. Clad in steel, their purpose was to face the fears that had once broken them. To fight their pain, and one day make peace with it. All of this, for the sake of building a brighter future for which no cost was too great.
But the ghosts could never find the tranquility they needed to peacefully move on from the world alone, and Ayin was the only one left who could help them. He tried many times, but life had long ago beaten out of him much of the faith and kindness he needed, and so his attempts were doomed from the start.
Still, the man had long ago decided that nothing was sacred in the name of this endeavor, not even his life. If he could not complete the work, burdened by the pain that weighed on his heart? Then he would tear himself apart, and make an Ayin untouched by the past. An Ayin who might believe in the dream the same way he believed in Carmen.
And so he let himself fall and shatter, hoping the fragments could finish what had been started oh so long ago. The man named Ayin died, and the shards made in his image took his place. Together, they and the wardens toiled alongside a mechanical woman who had been loathed by her creator, for years and decades and maybe more in a place where even grass was a distant memory.
A place where the sunlight could not reach...
...Once, there was a broken shard of a broken man. The shard had no name, and never needed one. For the nameless one had taken on the role Ayin had left behind, and the wardens would think them one and the same. Yet the shard remembered nothing of their maker's past or the dream he had once cherished. No, despite how they were treated, the nameless one was not Ayin, and could never hope to be him. They were someone else entirely, and it was enough for the prison's overseer to take notice, even when she'd grown numb to the world her creator had thrown her into.
Perhaps taking pity, or perhaps seeing something of herself in them, the metal woman, Angela, saw fit to give the shard a letter in place of the name they had never been given. She made them a variable, an X-Factor in a place that had long ago become static, and set them loose to learn of the hell they had been born into.
Though it was cold and dark, for the one who had known nothing else Facility X-394 was a place of wonder despite all the pain. The monstrous prisoners reaped lives like wheat, but the wardens' presence could not be understated. As one of the few constants in a place so chaotic, they and Angela were the shard's closest companions. Every day the nameless one, X spoke to the ghosts in steel, slowly learning of their struggles, and the past only they remembered.
When there was a task they needed to be done, X was there to make it happen. When the wardens' old scars opened up, X was there to soothe the pain. When X's aid simply wasn't enough, when they were forced to face those fears, and once again broke against them... X was still there to pick up the broken pieces, and do whatever they could to help the ghosts find themselves again.
One by one, the wardens faced their trauma. One by one, with the help and kindness Ayin had lost, the ghosts that X had grown to love and cherish as family finally found the peace they'd earned countless years ago. With that clarity and enlightenment, they provided all but the last piece Ayin's work needed, and saw fit to teach X all they could. Hope sprouted anew, for an end was in sight.
But there was still one last loose end. Ayin's great work was almost complete, and yet X, I had not once seen the other pieces he had left behind. That was because they were waiting for me to come to them. Waiting to start a struggle at the climax, because at the end of it all? With all his preparations and all he had done, the only thing that could possibly stand between Ayin and his beloved's last wish...
...Was Ayin himself.
Abel was the first fragment I faced, for he had become all that Ayin was before he'd found love. Strong. Cold. Utterly immovable. As had happened once before, Abel saw a world that was so much larger than him and decided there was no point in trying to change it. Without a sun to warm his heart, Abel lacked the desire to do or be more than a drifter. And so he merely watched as Angela, the wardens and I worked and suffered, putting up only a token resistance when I came to put him to rest.
Consumed by grief and loss, Abram was the second in line. He was the hollow husk Ayin had become when the sun burned out, and he too could do nothing. The sins of the past weighed too heavily on his heart, killing what little hope he had left. Crushed beneath that mountain of sin, Abram thought that nothing could justify what his maker had done. Thus he sought to destroy the source of the pain, the hell Ayin had built and give those within an end most final. He didn't care that it was almost over, or that he would make all the sacrifice meaningless. All that mattered was preventing more suffering. Like Abel before him, Abram fought for his desire, but depression is a poison without equal, so he too was overpowered and laid low.
...Even at the very end, Ayin only broke because he allowed himself to for the sake of his work. But being functional and remaining sane are two very different things. Adam was the last, and he was the madness his maker had held at bay. He believed in Carmen's dream because he believed in her with a fervor none could match. Even when she was dead and gone, she was the sun and the center of his universe. Yet for all his faith and passion and love, Adam did not and could not understand her ideal. In his ignorance he sought to destroy the very people she wished to save, believing it was what she'd always wanted. He... Well... I'm here, and Adam... he isn't. I... I think that says enough. It's ok, Day 49 is over now. It can't hurt me. It won't hurt me. Never Again.
...Regardless, with Ayin's own traumas put to rest, I was the first to see the final piece of what he had called the Seed of Light. You would think that he'd be unable to top sacrificing his life for the project, that he'd have nothing left to give.
But you couldn't be more wrong. The man himself stood before me, his very soul made manifest and waiting to burn for the sake of a dream he could finally believe in. I was given one more day to say my goodbyes, and settle all the affairs we both knew I didn't have. For Ayin was going to die a final, true death, and as the last remaining piece of his once fractured psyche, I... I had to go with him.
I didn't fight him on it. There wasn't any way around it, and I had my own reasons to follow him. I wanted a world where everyone I cared for could be truly happy, where no one had to suffer. They didn't need me anymore, and The Seed of Light, made to teach humanity to hope and dream again was a way to make it happen. So I made the best of that final day, and set the wheels into motion. The Seed was set alight, and Ayin spoke his last words.
"Now... Fade away without a trace."
...It didn't quite go as planned, did it? But I should probably tell you about what came after. I don't know all of it, but I think I know enough.
With Ayin's final sacrifice, a pillar of Light lanced into the heavens, bright enough to eclipse the sun. It would shine for seven days and seven nights, because that was how long it would take to give back what The City had stolen from humanity. The result would be a kinder world like Carmen had always dreamed of, where one day the cycle of The City might be broken.
That's what would have happened, had it shone for all seven days. But it only managed three. For all the wrongs he had managed to right among those closest to him, Ayin had forgotten someone. And of course, it had to be the one he had wronged most.
Angela, the machine he had built in Carmen's image, only to decide she was worthless when she couldn't replace the irreplaceable. The one he'd almost never named, and forced into the role of overseer to the hell he'd forged. One of the only ones within that hell who was irreplaceable, who with a perfect memory recalled every second of the countless years. Every death, every time someone was revived, replaced, or reset...
I don't think she was allowed to interact with me at the end. Otherwise she would have been there. But I think the worst of it is that there was no way Ayin could have ever atoned for all he'd done to Angela, because he never saw her as a person. Once he realized she couldn't be Carmen, he only ever saw a machine and the parts he'd "wasted" making "it". One doesn't apologize to a toaster, and so too did he never think to apologize to her.
So I don't blame her for what happened, and I don't think you should either. When born into the world knowing only neglect and suffering, it only makes sense to try and take matters into your own hands. More so if trying means revenge and justice are both on the table. I can't say that taking the Seed of Light was right, but then neither was anything that had been done to her since she took her first breath. It's an unfair situation for everyone, really.
I'm not sure what comes after. The Seed of Light was never supposed to be stopped partway through, and just about anything could happen as a result. Ideally once it's started the planted seeds can sprout on their own, just at a slower pace. Worst case scenario... I'd rather not go there... But no matter what happens... I think things will eventually work out. Maybe it's childish, but Ayin and Carmen made a Light that'll never go out, and too much work has been put in for The City's people to be denied their happy ending forever. It would just be wrong for the hope they worked so hard for to die so easily, right?
Perhaps taking pity, or perhaps seeing something of herself in them, the metal woman, Angela, saw fit to give the shard a letter in place of the name they had never been given. She made them a variable, an X-Factor in a place that had long ago become static, and set them loose to learn of the hell they had been born into.
Though it was cold and dark, for the one who had known nothing else Facility X-394 was a place of wonder despite all the pain. The monstrous prisoners reaped lives like wheat, but the wardens' presence could not be understated. As one of the few constants in a place so chaotic, they and Angela were the shard's closest companions. Every day the nameless one, X spoke to the ghosts in steel, slowly learning of their struggles, and the past only they remembered.
When there was a task they needed to be done, X was there to make it happen. When the wardens' old scars opened up, X was there to soothe the pain. When X's aid simply wasn't enough, when they were forced to face those fears, and once again broke against them... X was still there to pick up the broken pieces, and do whatever they could to help the ghosts find themselves again.
One by one, the wardens faced their trauma. One by one, with the help and kindness Ayin had lost, the ghosts that X had grown to love and cherish as family finally found the peace they'd earned countless years ago. With that clarity and enlightenment, they provided all but the last piece Ayin's work needed, and saw fit to teach X all they could. Hope sprouted anew, for an end was in sight.
But there was still one last loose end. Ayin's great work was almost complete, and yet X, I had not once seen the other pieces he had left behind. That was because they were waiting for me to come to them. Waiting to start a struggle at the climax, because at the end of it all? With all his preparations and all he had done, the only thing that could possibly stand between Ayin and his beloved's last wish...
...Was Ayin himself.
Abel was the first fragment I faced, for he had become all that Ayin was before he'd found love. Strong. Cold. Utterly immovable. As had happened once before, Abel saw a world that was so much larger than him and decided there was no point in trying to change it. Without a sun to warm his heart, Abel lacked the desire to do or be more than a drifter. And so he merely watched as Angela, the wardens and I worked and suffered, putting up only a token resistance when I came to put him to rest.
Consumed by grief and loss, Abram was the second in line. He was the hollow husk Ayin had become when the sun burned out, and he too could do nothing. The sins of the past weighed too heavily on his heart, killing what little hope he had left. Crushed beneath that mountain of sin, Abram thought that nothing could justify what his maker had done. Thus he sought to destroy the source of the pain, the hell Ayin had built and give those within an end most final. He didn't care that it was almost over, or that he would make all the sacrifice meaningless. All that mattered was preventing more suffering. Like Abel before him, Abram fought for his desire, but depression is a poison without equal, so he too was overpowered and laid low.
...Even at the very end, Ayin only broke because he allowed himself to for the sake of his work. But being functional and remaining sane are two very different things. Adam was the last, and he was the madness his maker had held at bay. He believed in Carmen's dream because he believed in her with a fervor none could match. Even when she was dead and gone, she was the sun and the center of his universe. Yet for all his faith and passion and love, Adam did not and could not understand her ideal. In his ignorance he sought to destroy the very people she wished to save, believing it was what she'd always wanted. He... Well... I'm here, and Adam... he isn't. I... I think that says enough. It's ok, Day 49 is over now. It can't hurt me. It won't hurt me. Never Again.
...Regardless, with Ayin's own traumas put to rest, I was the first to see the final piece of what he had called the Seed of Light. You would think that he'd be unable to top sacrificing his life for the project, that he'd have nothing left to give.
But you couldn't be more wrong. The man himself stood before me, his very soul made manifest and waiting to burn for the sake of a dream he could finally believe in. I was given one more day to say my goodbyes, and settle all the affairs we both knew I didn't have. For Ayin was going to die a final, true death, and as the last remaining piece of his once fractured psyche, I... I had to go with him.
I didn't fight him on it. There wasn't any way around it, and I had my own reasons to follow him. I wanted a world where everyone I cared for could be truly happy, where no one had to suffer. They didn't need me anymore, and The Seed of Light, made to teach humanity to hope and dream again was a way to make it happen. So I made the best of that final day, and set the wheels into motion. The Seed was set alight, and Ayin spoke his last words.
"Now... Fade away without a trace."
...It didn't quite go as planned, did it? But I should probably tell you about what came after. I don't know all of it, but I think I know enough.
With Ayin's final sacrifice, a pillar of Light lanced into the heavens, bright enough to eclipse the sun. It would shine for seven days and seven nights, because that was how long it would take to give back what The City had stolen from humanity. The result would be a kinder world like Carmen had always dreamed of, where one day the cycle of The City might be broken.
That's what would have happened, had it shone for all seven days. But it only managed three. For all the wrongs he had managed to right among those closest to him, Ayin had forgotten someone. And of course, it had to be the one he had wronged most.
Angela, the machine he had built in Carmen's image, only to decide she was worthless when she couldn't replace the irreplaceable. The one he'd almost never named, and forced into the role of overseer to the hell he'd forged. One of the only ones within that hell who was irreplaceable, who with a perfect memory recalled every second of the countless years. Every death, every time someone was revived, replaced, or reset...
I don't think she was allowed to interact with me at the end. Otherwise she would have been there. But I think the worst of it is that there was no way Ayin could have ever atoned for all he'd done to Angela, because he never saw her as a person. Once he realized she couldn't be Carmen, he only ever saw a machine and the parts he'd "wasted" making "it". One doesn't apologize to a toaster, and so too did he never think to apologize to her.
So I don't blame her for what happened, and I don't think you should either. When born into the world knowing only neglect and suffering, it only makes sense to try and take matters into your own hands. More so if trying means revenge and justice are both on the table. I can't say that taking the Seed of Light was right, but then neither was anything that had been done to her since she took her first breath. It's an unfair situation for everyone, really.
I'm not sure what comes after. The Seed of Light was never supposed to be stopped partway through, and just about anything could happen as a result. Ideally once it's started the planted seeds can sprout on their own, just at a slower pace. Worst case scenario... I'd rather not go there... But no matter what happens... I think things will eventually work out. Maybe it's childish, but Ayin and Carmen made a Light that'll never go out, and too much work has been put in for The City's people to be denied their happy ending forever. It would just be wrong for the hope they worked so hard for to die so easily, right?
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Okay, before I engage with this, I need to talk about this part.
Becuase now you've confused me. This makes it sound like you agree with me. And that might be coming from confusion on who we're talking about. X the manager, or X the EGO Cage.
I'll take it from the top. I believe that X, the EGO Cage for א, is at the very least a separate personality created by א. I personally believe it goes far enough that X is entirely different person because of the differences, but that's a different argument. I also believe that the story we were told when X used Lobotomy on herself is accurate, as I have no evidence to the contrary, and as such that א is what became of X, the Ayin fragment manager, when he went into the Light and Angela did her thing. Is this your interpretation, or do you believe something different?
I disagree, amongst other things, I don't believe in the term of *earning* skills in the first place, you have the skills or you don't, the process of getting them don't matter. (Well, as long as said process is ethical, but that's a completely different debate and one I don't want to enter)
For me personally, I think I already used the term, but I think of X as a *fetish soul* of א, an entity that is simultaneously separate and part of the whole, with some differences, but a very good indicator of what her greater self is like, and, more importantly, NOT a different person entirely.
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Eternal_0bserver
(Unverified Bookworm)
- Location
- Earth, Northern Europe
I've re-read the old chapters a bit, and you can see that א doesn't make a difference between her and X, only between a container and a real body.
As for Ayin and X, my reasoning, mostly based on information from chapter 4.7, is as follows:
X appeared as part of Ayin, as did Abel, Abram, and Adam, but without possessing Ayin's memories, she also did not inherit his apathy. She's probably what Ayin might have been if the City hadn't broken his spirit and instilled the futility of trying to change things for the better. Unlike him, X has retained her faith and determination to do good things, even with Hell going on around her. Due to the difference in circumstances, her personality became completely different, and as a result, even having regained access to Ayin's memories, she viewed them through the prism of her own worldview. For example, she mourned the fate of Elijah, while Ayin could not find the strength to care. Unlike others, she becomes a completely independent person. Therefore, in order to complete the Project, she must share her vision with Ayin, bringing her point of view to its various Aspects.
Therefore, she does not reunite with Ayin in the end - they are completely different personalities, although they had the same basis. Therefore, she is called the daughter of Ayin. And so during the betrayal of Angela, they are separated.
At the moment when X tries to avoid dissolving into the Light, she uses X-394 to separate herself from the rest and give herself a form, as a result, merging with it, and goes through the transformation, becoming א. It is probably at this moment that she manifests her own EGO equipment. But א is not complete, she is an idea without a clear form, so she is dangerous for the outside world. Therefore, she creates a container in the form of X's current body, using her new brain as a kind of filter, adapting her thoughts, and making them more... Human-ish?
At least that's how I see things.
As for Ayin and X, my reasoning, mostly based on information from chapter 4.7, is as follows:
X appeared as part of Ayin, as did Abel, Abram, and Adam, but without possessing Ayin's memories, she also did not inherit his apathy. She's probably what Ayin might have been if the City hadn't broken his spirit and instilled the futility of trying to change things for the better. Unlike him, X has retained her faith and determination to do good things, even with Hell going on around her. Due to the difference in circumstances, her personality became completely different, and as a result, even having regained access to Ayin's memories, she viewed them through the prism of her own worldview. For example, she mourned the fate of Elijah, while Ayin could not find the strength to care. Unlike others, she becomes a completely independent person. Therefore, in order to complete the Project, she must share her vision with Ayin, bringing her point of view to its various Aspects.
Therefore, she does not reunite with Ayin in the end - they are completely different personalities, although they had the same basis. Therefore, she is called the daughter of Ayin. And so during the betrayal of Angela, they are separated.
At the moment when X tries to avoid dissolving into the Light, she uses X-394 to separate herself from the rest and give herself a form, as a result, merging with it, and goes through the transformation, becoming א. It is probably at this moment that she manifests her own EGO equipment. But א is not complete, she is an idea without a clear form, so she is dangerous for the outside world. Therefore, she creates a container in the form of X's current body, using her new brain as a kind of filter, adapting her thoughts, and making them more... Human-ish?
At least that's how I see things.
[X] Intervene…
-[X] Support both
--[X] Tell both of them to leave it. They can continue tomorrow.
-[X] Support both
--[X] Tell both of them to leave it. They can continue tomorrow.
Lepidoptera
Mother of Monsters, Unverified Impuritas Civitatis
- Location
- Indeterminate Unknown
Secrets shall remain secret for now.