“Human Resources” Shouldn’t Be This Literal: A PMMM/ProjectMoon Quest
- Thread starter Lepidoptera
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- library of ruina lobotomy corporation project moon puella magi madoka magica eldritch horror magical girl crossover eldritch protagonist female protagonist gore non-human protagonist suffering violence discussion is always good civ good decisions identity crises nuclear moth detected parenting powers activate
Points we are sure about:
-Abnormalities, what, why, how.
-Us, still hesitating on revealing we are an abnormality, but definitely say about the City, us being a Dimensional traveler, and our previous job.
-EGO gifts, particularly, ours, which is the main reason I'm thinking of telling about our nature.
-Give Madoka the book on abnormalities and make her the manager, makes sure to point out how important this kind of position is.
As for why not tell them right now, they are probably exhausted, need some time to come back from the panic and, for Madoka, appreciate her family. I also think it is better to get all our explanation in one go, make sure that what happened with Sayaka not even knowing about Abnormalities isn't going to repeat itself.
Eternal_0bserver
(Unverified Bookworm)
- Location
- Earth, Northern Europe
You are speaking from the point of view of someone who knows about Kyubey's system. However, from Madoka's point of view, Kyubey offers people the opportunity to protect themselves from the Witches. Even if Madoka didn't know about the Witches, she would have died at the hands of the Witch if we hadn't intervened. Yes, Kyubey recruits young girls to fight, but each of them makes her own choice to do so in exchange for a wish. And since we respect Madoka's will to not stand by knowing the truth, we should do the same for the other girls. That's why I say this line is inconsistent with X agreeing with Madoka's arguments.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Absolutely, yes. All of them need to know this, and arguably everyone in Mitakihara should at least get a pamphlet on them or something. Keeping up a masquerade doesn't help X.
I see it the other way. X needs to tell them she's an Abnormality, even though she fears rejection, because she has to explain her EGO gifts. The company, her job (well, not an EGO of א X), the other dimension? That's not super relevant right now.
Again, hard agreement.
While I'm happy to give Madoka a copy, she's also the one that needs it the least. Is there a good reason to everyone else to not have a copy?
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That's precisely what I want to begin attacking, I do explicitly say to *plants seeds of doubts*, Kyubey wasn't the one that saved her, not here, not before, it was us, with Homura's help, if adults can help, as we clearly show, why is he recruiting young girls? If she is so precious to him, why didn't HE help her right now, instead of having to have Homura be the one to call us?
She is implicated, it isn't in any way inconsistent with pointing out that she shouldn't be implicated in the first place, that leaving the *fate of the world* on some teens is monstrous, it happened, she's there, she can help, but the reason she even needs to help is Kyubey.
Edit:
They can definitely get a copy, what I want with Madoka being the manager is have her be the one that is outside the fight and can get this information with a clearer head to transmit anything important that could've been missed in the heat of it.
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Unlucky Bibliophile
Meganekko
I checked the progress of the some of the sapling observation levels to see if I can find out any judging criteria. By which, I mean the saplings' progression that we stumbled into rather than come across already unlocked.
Acceptance. Pretty straightforward stuff. A later check on the sapling would confirm it.
Togetherness. X and Homura sharing time traveler angst.
Devotion. At the time, the voters and X were unaware of the effects of Lobotomy. However, the mental effects would absolutely fit.
Anguish. X was hit particularly hard by the revelation that she was an Abnormality.
Could fit Payment or Target. Leaning towards Target, Kyoko having contracted X by pulling on the favor we owed her from the investigation. A check on the sapling would be necessary to make sure.
Personally, I'm leaning towards the theory that the Abnormalities are setting the rules for unlocking saplings. It certainly tracks. X fulfilling Devotion, despite having no idea about the mental effects of Lobotomy lends some support to the theory. X might have been aware of Lobotomy's effects on a subconscious level, which triggered the proc, but I doubt it goes that deep.
questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
SAVE could be fulfilled if one of the Abnormalities decided to be naughty and do some fuck up shit. Like Parasite Tree or any of the other uncurable diseases Abnormalities. Though that is quite the nuclear option.
SAVE might also be able to be fulfilled by us harming someone to save them. Not necessary to kill.
We haven't hurt any of our girls yet or really, hurt anyone to "save" them. But for example, Sayaka is being unreasonable, or Madoka is being a bit stubborn. Knocking them out to "save" them might be able to fulfill the condition.
Even against the civilians, while we did "hurt" them by throwing/shoving them to let them not die to Big Bird, it was unintended more than anything.
Maybe just "Harm to SAVE" is good enough? Without needing to "KILL to SAVE" at least. It's worth exploring at least, though I can't see this working out in any way other than the QM giving us the bone for the sapling.
The conditions are unacceptable. Fuck. Wait then what the hell is Nothing There going to be? I already thought that SAVE was fulfilled before Big Bird appeared, are we going to have to ACTUALLY start mimicking someone else, and trying to LITERALLY become them to fulfill that thing's condition?
SAVE might also be able to be fulfilled by us harming someone to save them. Not necessary to kill.
We haven't hurt any of our girls yet or really, hurt anyone to "save" them. But for example, Sayaka is being unreasonable, or Madoka is being a bit stubborn. Knocking them out to "save" them might be able to fulfill the condition.
Even against the civilians, while we did "hurt" them by throwing/shoving them to let them not die to Big Bird, it was unintended more than anything.
Maybe just "Harm to SAVE" is good enough? Without needing to "KILL to SAVE" at least. It's worth exploring at least, though I can't see this working out in any way other than the QM giving us the bone for the sapling.
The conditions are unacceptable. Fuck. Wait then what the hell is Nothing There going to be? I already thought that SAVE was fulfilled before Big Bird appeared, are we going to have to ACTUALLY start mimicking someone else, and trying to LITERALLY become them to fulfill that thing's condition?
I honestly don't think that line of questioning will work on QB. Since he appears in front of X and asks her for a contract so she can arrive at Homura's position faster.
questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
I guess we will see when we get there. From what I've seen tho, Nothing There is probably one of those "Seems easy, is hard" types of conditions.
Some conditions are probably already fulfilled by X's nature alone though. MIMIC is definitely done. Since it's not X. It's Special X mimicking X. The other 2...well...Only Lepid knows.
But ugh, it's gonna be such a pain in the ass to obtain some of the more powerful ones like the Magical Girls. Knight of Despair aside, the rest of the girls are quite frankly impossible for us to fulfill their conditions.
But wait...how the hell did the ALEPHs integrate with us so easily, when we literally struggle to even get 1 condition for a HE fulfilled for like half the damn quest?
I'm pretty sure Blue Star integrated in the span of 1-2 chaps. While Army in Black basically just gave himself to us.
Some conditions are probably already fulfilled by X's nature alone though. MIMIC is definitely done. Since it's not X. It's Special X mimicking X. The other 2...well...Only Lepid knows.
But ugh, it's gonna be such a pain in the ass to obtain some of the more powerful ones like the Magical Girls. Knight of Despair aside, the rest of the girls are quite frankly impossible for us to fulfill their conditions.
But wait...how the hell did the ALEPHs integrate with us so easily, when we literally struggle to even get 1 condition for a HE fulfilled for like half the damn quest?
I'm pretty sure Blue Star integrated in the span of 1-2 chaps. While Army in Black basically just gave himself to us.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Unfortunately for X's trauma, Nothing There is trying to mimic humans in general, not any one person. And X is an Abnormality that wants to be human. That part at least is probably fulfilled already.
Edit: You ninja'd me yourself.
kaillll
Judgment Upon You
I suspect the blue star sees us as the one who has finished their purpose, aka saving people from despair and hopelessness but by a way that does not inflict death.
Devotion, salvation, future.
Devotion towards a better world, even if the result is death
Bring the world salvation even if you have to leave behind what you have done.
The future, a unclear future, a brighter future, where we will all become the stars.
And the army in pink is kinda similar.
Devotion, salvation, future.
Devotion towards a better world, even if the result is death
Bring the world salvation even if you have to leave behind what you have done.
The future, a unclear future, a brighter future, where we will all become the stars.
And the army in pink is kinda similar.
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Lurker183839
Question Machine Gun
I wonder if the difference in difficulty is (for a lack of better words) due to Alephs requiring grander stuff that we've already done, while others requiring more down-to-earth stuff that we haven't had the opportunity to do yet
And he could have told Madoka that Big Bird was around so that she could flee before her family was entranced, he could have told us what was happening before Homura did since he probably has a better surveillance system, he could have given is the direction first thing instead of instantly going for the worthless contract, he could have done a lot of things to be more helpful, yet he didn't, and I don't want her to contact Kyubey to *corroborate* any of this, I want to make her doubt it, see how bad he gets behind the scenes, not turn back to his cutesy act.
Edit:
Basically, my goal is not to make her do an instant 180 on how she thinks of it, I want to plant the first seeds, we'll never convince anyone if we constantly don't even try because of one reason or another.
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- Location
- Somewhere
I REALLY enjoyed this chapter.
And like that Homura is going to have a Sleepover at the Kaname's.
But yeah. Have much to say. So longpost incoming:
I'd disagree with that read, mainly because (chapter 12)
So I'd very much read into it that X knows about those reqs IC.
Especially with (chapter 3)
X knows when something is made out of emotions, and what kind of emotion at that.
---
My only worry there is that Lobotomy is not particularly fast.
And Nothing There has
at least 30 that are aware enough to suffer and accumulate Grief.
X just isn't fast enough to get all of them before one of them (at least) would go fully black.
---
Yuma is an abuse survivor, Mami has severe loneliness issues and X has guilt the size of a moon. This approach is I would say be even normally untenable.
But used here it would have the family implode faster than Blue Star cleans a facility of Clerks.
At least IMHO.
---
Another thing to add to your point.
We told Kyubey about Big Bird earlier.
And Homura was the first one to call us.
Kyubey even failed to mention the crowd or try to go and wake Mami up when her Ribbons would have been great for the crowd.
Especially after we buffed her Prudence earlier.
Just sat uselessly on the side and tried to get X to contract.
I think that is enough to nail Kyubey at least somewhat (metaphorically) to a wall.
---
For Comeuppance (Punishing Bird) we could try for a night of Vigilantism.
And for Save +1 from me that Smashing a Grief Seed would work.
Alternatively we could suppress the Queen of Hatred after she starts going hysteric but before she goes snake.
After all that is not a good time for her as well and "saving" her from that experience might well count.
Abnormalities can still be reduced to 0 HP, they just do not stay there after all.
And now a gathering of unrelated thoughts, just so they can be part of the discussion (under Spoiler for size):
And like that Homura is going to have a Sleepover at the Kaname's.
But yeah. Have much to say. So longpost incoming:
I'd disagree with that read, mainly because (chapter 12)
So I'd very much read into it that X knows about those reqs IC.
Especially with (chapter 3)
X knows when something is made out of emotions, and what kind of emotion at that.
---
My only worry there is that Lobotomy is not particularly fast.
(chapter 28)
(chapter 38)
And Nothing There has
at least 30 that are aware enough to suffer and accumulate Grief.
X just isn't fast enough to get all of them before one of them (at least) would go fully black.
---
Yuma is an abuse survivor, Mami has severe loneliness issues and X has guilt the size of a moon. This approach is I would say be even normally untenable.
But used here it would have the family implode faster than Blue Star cleans a facility of Clerks.
At least IMHO.
---
Another thing to add to your point.
We told Kyubey about Big Bird earlier.
And Homura was the first one to call us.
Kyubey even failed to mention the crowd or try to go and wake Mami up when her Ribbons would have been great for the crowd.
Especially after we buffed her Prudence earlier.
Just sat uselessly on the side and tried to get X to contract.
I think that is enough to nail Kyubey at least somewhat (metaphorically) to a wall.
---
For Comeuppance (Punishing Bird) we could try for a night of Vigilantism.
And for Save +1 from me that Smashing a Grief Seed would work.
Alternatively we could suppress the Queen of Hatred after she starts going hysteric but before she goes snake.
After all that is not a good time for her as well and "saving" her from that experience might well count.
Abnormalities can still be reduced to 0 HP, they just do not stay there after all.
And now a gathering of unrelated thoughts, just so they can be part of the discussion (under Spoiler for size):
1. Unless we want to trigger Kyouko's Trauma like it is Don't Touch Me let's not use the compelling Manager Voice in her vicinity.
2. I wonder if Big Bird got its idea of "saving" from the sleep deprivation it has from Patrolling Day and Night.
Would explain why "lulling it to sleep" is a mechanic.
3. Maybe we should involve Mami and Yuma in our next science session.
Yuma is surprisingly clever and Mami turned Ribbon powers into muskets, so they will likely have something to add.
Also it would be fluff family time.
4. Related: we should tell Mami and Yuma about the Sapling reqs. Could allow us greater freedom of action if they know that we need to act off sometime to properly banish the Abno's.
5. Also we should have X research Cogito Ephemera at some point, if only the description states that there is more that X can do with it and it can do only good if we understand it more.
6. If X realises the existence of Exposure I wonder if IC cranking that up would be the choice? Seeing as The memories of A should provide why incomplete exposure to the Seed of Light is bad and X wanting to do right by the kids.
7. Lastly Distortion is not a 1 - 100 thing but has signs beforehand. Signs X should see with the emotion sight and let us interfere and push them away from distortion and towards EGO.
Especially with that expert knowledge on psychology from A's memories.
2. I wonder if Big Bird got its idea of "saving" from the sleep deprivation it has from Patrolling Day and Night.
Would explain why "lulling it to sleep" is a mechanic.
3. Maybe we should involve Mami and Yuma in our next science session.
Yuma is surprisingly clever and Mami turned Ribbon powers into muskets, so they will likely have something to add.
Also it would be fluff family time.
4. Related: we should tell Mami and Yuma about the Sapling reqs. Could allow us greater freedom of action if they know that we need to act off sometime to properly banish the Abno's.
5. Also we should have X research Cogito Ephemera at some point, if only the description states that there is more that X can do with it and it can do only good if we understand it more.
6. If X realises the existence of Exposure I wonder if IC cranking that up would be the choice? Seeing as The memories of A should provide why incomplete exposure to the Seed of Light is bad and X wanting to do right by the kids.
7. Lastly Distortion is not a 1 - 100 thing but has signs beforehand. Signs X should see with the emotion sight and let us interfere and push them away from distortion and towards EGO.
Especially with that expert knowledge on psychology from A's memories.
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Part of why I want to work with NT on this, she is keeping them clean, after all, just have to do so for those we havent treated while we work. She don't need to do anything to them mentally as long as her shell is intact, from what I understood from the sidestory, she only *wakes them up* when she has to grow a new shell, or at least, that's what I got out of her interactions.
Eternal_0bserver
(Unverified Bookworm)
- Location
- Earth, Northern Europe
X is the only one who can fight the Witches without being a Magical Girl. She is anomalous and Madoka knows it. Also, it's fairly obvious that if Kyubey had tried to help directly instead of warning X, it would only ended in death. Not even Homura knows that Kyubey can fight directly at this moment.
And if the Magical Girls did not exist, it is obvious that humanity would simply be reaped by the Witches. So it's a necessary sacrifice. And you might find that Madoka actually embraces the concept, even if she might not like it - after all, Madokami left the Magical Girl system basically intact, only removing their Witch equations - and even providing a replacement for them.
As for "Save", it can be a bit tricky. For example, X protected these people from death, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she saved them - they are still in danger when another Abnos walk around. From Big Bird's point of view, "Save" probably suggests a permanent solution. It does not have to be death - for example, if we find a way to reverse the transformation into a Witch, this can also be called salvation.
wait, what? I never knew that. Is this a Record thing?
Except Kyubey didn't warn us, he came to see us AFTER Homura did and immediately told us *contract?* Without giving any actual useful information about the situation. He didn't help in any way, he just watched and tried to rip us off via contracting for something that didn't need it.
You mean the witches that wouldn't exist if Kyubey hadn't made the magical girls? Those witches? The ones he is responsible for?
- Location
- A Firelit Room | A Silent Forest
I thought that the problem was that Kyubey DIDN'T warn us, it has always been Homura or Mami that warned us, I also think that we should mention that 3 of reasons we want to do this is because 1 We ourselves aren't with the others all the time and 2 Kyubey refuses to inform us of these things (Elaborate on the Nothing There warning) and 3. A majority of abnormalities prey on the unsuspecting strong (Big Bird, reverse stat checks, Plague doctor) and having somebody there that can assess the situation and inform others would allow her to perform her role without using up the wish
questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
It's probably best that we expect a fight from it.
So far...the abnormalities who fight and who don't are basically random. Something like Blue Star was seemingly "helping", Porccubus outright attacked us "playfully".
Nothing There could just decide to give us a hug and break X's cage like a KitKat bar.
Big Bird just looking at us drove X to her literal knees.
Suffice to say, Alephs which decide to "fight" us are gonna give us a hard time for sure.
Eternal_0bserver
(Unverified Bookworm)
- Location
- Earth, Northern Europe
...Actually, I can't remember where it came from. But given the technological superiority of their race, they are almost certainly not as harmless as they look.
Kyubey gave us directions when we asked about it. Offering a contract can also be called help. And as I mentioned, Kyubey couldn't help us in combat, only die there.
Madoka doesn't know about it.
I understand that you want to shield Madoka from Kyubey's influence, but that's just not the right circumstance. Madoka will easily understand that the accusations are unfair, and Kyubey himself can easily dismiss them.
To be fair, we received a warning about Der Freischütz. But yes, that's probably one of the things we'll be talking about tomorrow - but we'll have to explain things first.
It's going to be a really long conversation, right?
questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
For the purpose of the topic. QB can't fight.
His race can probably just snap the solar system out of existence, given that they operate on a universal level and is a Type 4 Civilization, they probably can just point their local Dyson Beam at any problems they have to solve with violence.
But QB clones won't fight. They just don't since that ruins the whole point of the MGWitch System.
We were already going toward the correct direction, Homura was the one that gave them to us. Offering a contract is not help, it's selling snake oil. I don't ask him to fight.
He did less than a cheerleader in this fight, he didn't give us any info on what was happening, he wasn't the one who told us that something was happening, the only thing he tried to do was offer us a poisoned gift, the same he gives to everyone and use to kill young girls and submit them to a fate worse than death.
Just tell her then.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Yes, but you'd have to spill the beans about witches for that, and so far no one seems willing to take that step.
I think if you want what you want, you need to make a vote that's honest and upfront.
They definitely can, but for some reason don't.
Stepping back from the story for a moment, Kyubey and his deal are basically plot devices and plot enablers that are meant to drive Madoka into making the wish she did, and at times it really shows. They don't get any better in the spin offs either.
Others have said, but somehow it's hurting them without generating grief, which is a really neat trick, though I'm probably going to hate how it does it when it inevitably tells us.
One odd thing though, unrelated to most of the above. We've gotten Saplings for every Abnormality we've interacted with since Blue Star. Why?
It's not about willingness. Der Freischütz and Punishing Bird both turned themselves into Saplings and they were looking for us. Der Freischütz specifically was paid to give us information and power. And it's not about power either, Blue Star became a Sapling, Army in Pink did not. We started with A Sword Sharpened With Tears, and I'm very curious about the status of The King of Greed. What does a Sapling really mean?