[x] Plan Fight Metaphors With Metaphors
Libra's Lament, a Magical Girl Quest [Complete]
- Thread starter Naron
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
Let me see...
Sun has 1100 HP, 105 Resilience and 896 MM - so on average, she would be able to have Resilience 400. Even more, considering her weapon has Modifier Save - so if she lucks out, we might get to see Resilience 900 eventually - but let's say she's going to get 700 as a "likely". Her Radiance might grant her an ability to face-tank 1400 incoming damage then, and barely survive 3500 incoming damage in a single chunk. Considering the stats of Queen of Darkness, Rico probably can survive the first blow from her. Unless of course she is met with Judgement/Smite and Lightslayer.
Moon has 1000 HP, 155 Resilience and 48 MM - which means her face-tankery has about as much as Resilience 180 and survival of 1150 HP hit... That's... Means Eva is a lot more vulnerable than Rico, actually. Her vaunted x5 modifier remover is rather situational - the only common Ability that provides any kind of multiplier at all is Crash (x3), while its improvement Smash (x9) is beyond All is Equal to surmount. On the other hand, she has decent healing so long as no body modifiers (limbs cut off) are applied, she can heal both herself and her sister, and there is one example of bullshit ability from CWMGQ she would ignore - Sixth Heaven's "Tear the Gods from their heights".
...Because if you check how her attack was resolved in Prophet Drive, you'll see that it was modeled as "for some reason, Nepgear counts as an attacker and Demon King as an Intercept, DK multiplies damage by 5, then the RESULTING damage goes on to hit Nepgear, and gets multiplied by 5 yet again". Such bullshit.
EDIT: We now have a three-way tie with 3 votes each.
Last edited:
One thing to consider. Moon has a shop item for 200 EXP that lets her protect others in battle, and Radiance reduces incoming damage, not damage received. That means that it might very well be possible that Sun can use Radiance and then Moon can be the one who takes the reduced hit.
I do know statistical distributions. I just don't bother to look at distributions because that one time we need it to be over that mean half is the one time it rolls a 1. If we rolled a series, even a small one, and then took the best, I would agree with you. That's a good use of statistical distributions in this case.
But we roll MM once and take it.
And in case you haven't been bothering to even read my posts, I've been saying it's unreliable, not unhelpful.
I swear, people in this thread sometimes.
Case in point. He doesn't even bother to say why he's yelling this, and breaking one of the primary rules of the board over his knee without a care, he just yells it at me.
Also, humans literally can't not be hypocritical. They can try not to be, but they still are, so... Not really an insult.
- Location
- Elsewhere
We can't/only via skill/soft mechanics. Until we get another defense.
The point is that improving HP/Res is unlikely to stop that from happening on it's own.
- Location
- Earth
I don't think attacking the ceiling is a viable course of action.
[X] DarkKing98
[X] DarkKing98
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
This is clearly suboptimal - if Lightlan's swing vote wins - because "attack the ceiling" has a net weight of 6 to directly attacking her, which has only 4.
@justinkal, @ConfusedPotato, @wingstrike96 - have Fighting Metaphors with Metaphors.
@Kita Nakeshi , @Mellithae, and myself - have Something Fishy.
Both plans advocate trying the indirect approach (ceiling, talking etc) first.
@justinkal, @ConfusedPotato, @wingstrike96 - have Fighting Metaphors with Metaphors.
@Kita Nakeshi , @Mellithae, and myself - have Something Fishy.
Both plans advocate trying the indirect approach (ceiling, talking etc) first.
Last edited:
- Location
- Earth
all 6 of you are free to come to a compromise and combine your plans. you have ~11 hours left to do so.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
We probably will.
I note that your vote was particularly unhelpful in that regard though. I could live with either of two working, but now even if I swing my vote to the other side there will still be a deadlock.
Because of your vote.
- Location
- Earth
To speak up on that matter, the reason Something's Fishy and Fight Metaphors with Metaphors can not be counted as one is because they are fundamentally different. Not in actions, but in intent.
Something's Fishy is basically Eva and Rico being unsure about this and not wanting to fight, thus doing something else to see if they can get around it.
Fight Metaphors with Metaphors is about turning the game around against Hand of Fate, trying to undermine the boundaries she set and win by doing your own thing in direct response to what you percieve is her intent with all of this.
They are close in some ways, but not similar enough to be counted as one. Let There Be Light, on the other hand, only differs by one line which difference to the whole can easily be implemented.
Keep it civil, though.
Something's Fishy is basically Eva and Rico being unsure about this and not wanting to fight, thus doing something else to see if they can get around it.
Fight Metaphors with Metaphors is about turning the game around against Hand of Fate, trying to undermine the boundaries she set and win by doing your own thing in direct response to what you percieve is her intent with all of this.
They are close in some ways, but not similar enough to be counted as one. Let There Be Light, on the other hand, only differs by one line which difference to the whole can easily be implemented.
Keep it civil, though.
Last edited:
- Location
- St. Petersburg
Make an argument for it and I'll back you up? Here,
[x] Faraway-R
I have similar thoughts to justinkal, in that I believe that our strategy should be contingent on the game we played prior to this*, but I don't necessarily understand what disrupting the ceiling will get us. Still, I guess that's what you get for playing the games when no one explains you the rules** and win conditions.
* I find it a bit funny that when I first saw those choices with Ana, my pick was 'leave quietly', and it was the only real contender to the plan that actually won back then. The hypothetical path we have taken in the game has thus become hypothetical twice over. Talk about one's convictions.
** I wonder if Hand of Fate cheats hostile magical girls by trapping them in her realm and delaying explanation so they would be tempted to break the rules. She probably can't lie, since she told the rules in a different voice suggesting they are not her creation and function independently from her wishes, but she can postpone telling them for a while at least. That would be one nasty move...
Last edited:
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
Your support is extremely helpful in this case, @Nevill. Thank you.
I would like for people to pay attention to Naron's post above, about how he views the options as originally presented by myself and justinkal - as one born of hesitation, and as one born of determination. Additionally, to the full extent of justinkal's plan and the accompanying words:
Compare to mine, which I readily admitted was just giving one or two basic options (I was worried about instant bandwagon so decided to make couple of plans immediately):
I'll admit, in light of Naron's explanation mine seems lacking. While the actions (ceiling destruction, separation prevention, constant healing and reserving the direct confrontation for afterwards) are mostly the same, the intent isn't.
As such, if nothing is done in a few hours I will switch to Metaphors. If someone wishes to convince me otherwise, they're welcome to. I'll be back soon-ish.
[X] Plan Fight Metaphors With Metaphors
EDIT: 3 hours have passes, 4 hours before deadline. Vote changed.
Last edited:
- Location
- Earth
She does and she can.
Although Hand of Fate awakened her powers rather recently, so she could not put that particular trick to the test yet.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
With the calculations I've made, Moon is still the more vulnerable one of the two even if such an event happens to pass. Then again, having some kind of automatic... damage sharing ability would go a long way towards making the "one dies, both die" clause (mostly) irrelevant.
@justinkal, I've changed my vote to Fight Metaphors with Metaphors. Just informing.
@Naron, a question. Will Absolute Connection or its derivatives allow us to have "shared health pool" or similar feature for Primordial Sun and Primordial Moon?
- Location
- Earth
Aside from the fact that Absolute Connection has no further derivatives... no, it would not.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
Probably irrelevant unless we get a sudden influx of several thousand XP, though.
We need to get 7125 XP just to purchase all currently visible shop items and get all our abilities to 10 - 3110 for general abilities, 3365 for shop items and 650 for Absolute Connection.
EDIT: The way I see it, we can probably get it by the time we reach 6500-7000 total XP or so. Otherwise the more urgent options will take precedence.
We need to get 7125 XP just to purchase all currently visible shop items and get all our abilities to 10 - 3110 for general abilities, 3365 for shop items and 650 for Absolute Connection.
170(W)+240(S)+350(HP)+350(RES)+390(Flight)=1500 XP on basics for the Sun.
350(W)+170(S)+350(HP)+350(RES)+390(Flight)=1610 XP on basics for the Moon.
This is 3110 XP needed, we currently have spent 3312...
Sun-specific Shop items: 350+85+150+100+300+400+350=1735 XP
Moon-specific Shop items: 100+180+300+200+500+250=1630 XP
This is 3365 XP needed without Absolute Connection.
Absolute Connection is 650 XP. So a total of 3110+3365+650=6475+650=7125 XP.
350(W)+170(S)+350(HP)+350(RES)+390(Flight)=1610 XP on basics for the Moon.
This is 3110 XP needed, we currently have spent 3312...
Sun-specific Shop items: 350+85+150+100+300+400+350=1735 XP
Moon-specific Shop items: 100+180+300+200+500+250=1630 XP
This is 3365 XP needed without Absolute Connection.
Absolute Connection is 650 XP. So a total of 3110+3365+650=6475+650=7125 XP.
On the subject of soonish XP expeditures, I'd like to pay 255 XP to get Sun's weapon up to 10 and purchase Advanced Catalyst. This grants her Mmod 5806 which is actually a decent-ish survival/damage boost even with its relative unpredictability. Moon is harder to do, so she gets Soothing Moonlight to 10 (170 XP). This is followed by 150 XP each to Flight Level 7 (double speed for relatively decent movement rate).
[Q] XP Plan It's a Kind of Magic, Part 1 (725 XP)
-[Q] Sunlight Scepter 8 to 10 (170 XP)
-[Q] Sunlight Scepter: Advanced Catalyst (85 XP)
-[Q] Soothing Moonlight 8 to 10 (170 XP)
-[Q] Primordial Sun - Flight 4 to 7 (150 XP)
-[Q] Primordial Moon - Flight 4 to 7 (150 XP)
Unless something more interesting comes up, we're going to keep upgrading. This time, polish Sun's spell for magic damage and try and upgrade Moon's own Scepter.
[Q] XP Plan It's a Kind of Magic, Part 2 (770 XP)
-[Q] Scorching Sunlight 7 to 10 (240 XP)
-[Q] Lunar Blessing 5 to 10 (350 XP)
-[Q] Radiant Conductor (180 XP)
This is probably the point when we need to re-evaluate the benefits we're getting, but as is... A push for two currently known Super Abilities will be prudent.
[Q] XP Plan It's a Kind of Magic, Part 3 (1500 XP)
-[Q] Protective Silhouette 5 to 10 (350 XP)
-[Q] Veil Of the Lunar Goddess (500 XP)
-[Q] Absolute Connection (650 XP)
Sun's toughness will be supported by her high Magic Modifier, Moon will get the Super Ability for it, and we'll be in a better position to choose other benefits.
Total cost - 2995 XP.
[Q] XP Plan It's a Kind of Magic, Part 1 (725 XP)
-[Q] Sunlight Scepter 8 to 10 (170 XP)
-[Q] Sunlight Scepter: Advanced Catalyst (85 XP)
-[Q] Soothing Moonlight 8 to 10 (170 XP)
-[Q] Primordial Sun - Flight 4 to 7 (150 XP)
-[Q] Primordial Moon - Flight 4 to 7 (150 XP)
Unless something more interesting comes up, we're going to keep upgrading. This time, polish Sun's spell for magic damage and try and upgrade Moon's own Scepter.
[Q] XP Plan It's a Kind of Magic, Part 2 (770 XP)
-[Q] Scorching Sunlight 7 to 10 (240 XP)
-[Q] Lunar Blessing 5 to 10 (350 XP)
-[Q] Radiant Conductor (180 XP)
This is probably the point when we need to re-evaluate the benefits we're getting, but as is... A push for two currently known Super Abilities will be prudent.
[Q] XP Plan It's a Kind of Magic, Part 3 (1500 XP)
-[Q] Protective Silhouette 5 to 10 (350 XP)
-[Q] Veil Of the Lunar Goddess (500 XP)
-[Q] Absolute Connection (650 XP)
Sun's toughness will be supported by her high Magic Modifier, Moon will get the Super Ability for it, and we'll be in a better position to choose other benefits.
Total cost - 2995 XP.
Last edited:
My own main priorities right now are actually getting Sun's weapon to 10 and grabbing Moon's Shining Protector shop item. That's 80+90+200 EXP.
Remember that Radiance only works once per turn, so it's ineffective defensively when facing multiple enemies or an enemy with many attacks each turn. Shining Protector is what lets Moon actually act as a tank in that situation.
After that, it's a toss up for me between the low hanging fruit of Moon's Otherworldly Radiance (300 EXP) and the distant fruit of Veil of the Lunar Goddess (50+60+60+70+70+80+80+90+90+550 =1200 EXP).
- Location
- Earth
naron advised against getting shining protector until Moon is more durable.
it likely only grants intercept.
Yeah, we're going to want Veil at the least, hoping that has an End Damage reducer on it, before we get Protector.
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
So, anime protag bullshit won.
Great. Wonderful. There's absolutely nothing wrong in a world of deconstructed tropes, against someone aiming for the kill would ever go wrong by ignoring them or trying some percieved bullshit because you can't accept that sometimes, the world, doesn't go your way. Yup. Nothing will go wrong at all. /s
Great. Wonderful. There's absolutely nothing wrong in a world of deconstructed tropes, against someone aiming for the kill would ever go wrong by ignoring them or trying some percieved bullshit because you can't accept that sometimes, the world, doesn't go your way. Yup. Nothing will go wrong at all. /s
Forgot about that advisory warning.
Only granting Intercept seems off. Especially for something that costs that much EXP and is on a character with negligible base damage. An ability that lets you use ranged attacks to Intercept ranged attacks that aren't aimed at you would fit for that cost, but that type of ability wouldn't fit that warning.
What could fit is if it was like Intercept, but with also having the ability to ignore flight speed and HSC restrictions (to an extent) when attempting to Intercept an attack aimed at an ally.
Veil is still really expensive. Otherworldly Radiance might actually include a damage reducer. Despite the phrasing including the word "resilient", it also specifies "within your shell of moonlight", which to me reads as "after the attack gets past your outfit/skin/etc" (once it's already inside her).
- Location
- Earth
or maybe it gives a better intercept variant, like primordia. Or it might give automatic intercepts that do not cost AtP. Or Naron thinks intercept is worth that much. And if Moon is a lot more resilient with her Veil, it might be.
We'll only know if we buy it.