Libra's Lament, a Magical Girl Quest [Complete]

[justinkal]

Can anyone think of a good way to control which twin would get attacked by Paladin if Paladin uses Energy Surge?

Because 4 levels in Sunlight Scepter allows Sun to no sell Paladin's attack while also allowing her to OHKO Brave Heart with a melee attack. Could also pair it with two levels in Veil of the Lunar Goddess to let Moon (barely) survive two consecutive attacks from Paladin.

That's Sunlight Scepter 10->14 and Veil of the Lunar Goddess 13->15.

That would be Moon uses Scorching Sunlight on Brave Heart followed by Sun OHKOing Brave Heart with melee. And then surviving Paladin's attacks.

If there's a way to do this, I prefer it greatly over leveling up Baleful Eclipse.

 

[Dragou]

Wasn't saying he's wrong in general terms there. Was just saying it's not an instant answer to the current fight.

In regards to 'completing the mission means having EXP anyways', that depends on how large you like the emergency fund of EXP to be. For me, that amount is 1000+, which can easily be more than what a single mission gives.

In regards to 'cutting off right before exponential growth really kicks in', that depends on where you consider big numbers to begin in the mechanical system. To me, any single stat of a character or spell that is above 10k, or an attack that can consistently hit for above 50k Total Damage, is already in big numbers territory. Once both sides have their stats deep into the 5 digit range and can casually toss out 6 digit damage numbers, you've gone past the range of big numbers and into the territory of "whoever lands a clean hit first wins", where further increases in numbers tends to have a limited effect.

Right now we (you and I) aren't disagreeing on a need to make our strengths better. I want to take some of the stuff that's already been invested in higher. The disagreement is in regards to which thing(s) are the strengths to focus on.

I'm not at all expecting perfect counters to specialized builds to appear (unless they get foreshadowed long in advance). That would be stupid. Soft counters and partial counters are more what I'm referring to. And that's not for a reason of cruelty or fairness. Instead, that's for the reason that once one side's numbers become absurdly large, the only way a different side can compete (the only way to keep combat challenging) is to either also have absurdly large numbers or to have ways to prevent the giant numbers from getting used.

It's not about a cruel QM going "Hah, you specialized in the wrong way and now this character will kick your ass". It's about "this character doesn't let you use your giant numbers, because otherwise things would be too easy". Both are counters. The difference is the degree to which they counter.

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My point is that Baleful Eclipse is the spell which most resembles our chosen path of non-lethal. And like I stated it has his own big advantages, which goes beyond combat. I consider nubers within 6 digits here as high, even more so if I look at the other really strong MG´s like Abyss Knight and so on. Level 15 seems like overkill and I am willing to go down to lvl 13 but that is a level we shpould absolutly have, if we consider Paladin as the MG with the thickest defense. (Which I would doubt without informations.)

I think that the advantages of having a spell on numbers which most likely wont need to be raised the rest of this Quest gives us much more possibilitys int the votes outside of combats which take the majority of all votes until now.
Together with the other advantages it outclasses nearly everything else within long term planning. Because we are now nearly 2/3 through this quest it would be even more or less ok to have a thing where we outclass nearly everything else. It would be even logical in most storys.

Building exspecially enemys so that our (very) few combats would be difficult seems not needed and can be much more easely completed with secondary objectives. At least it would be more or less wasted effort, when we are this far into the story. It would make much more sense to build the road to the ending and having enough foreshadowing towards that.

But besides that we should really go the way, that we can knockout Paladin within 1 hit, to avoid any bad surprises or risk to get killed again.

 

[Dragonloli123]

Can anyone think of a good way to control which twin would get attacked by Paladin if Paladin uses Energy Surge?

Because 4 levels in Sunlight Scepter allows Sun to no sell Paladin's attack while also allowing her to OHKO Brave Heart with a melee attack. Could also pair it with two levels in Veil of the Lunar Goddess to let Moon (barely) survive two consecutive attacks from Paladin.

That's Sunlight Scepter 10->14 and Veil of the Lunar Goddess 13->15.

That would be Moon uses Scorching Sunlight on Brave Heart followed by Sun OHKOing Brave Heart with melee. And then surviving Paladin's attacks.

If there's a way to do this, I prefer it greatly over leveling up Baleful Eclipse.

Click to shrink...

The only way I could think of accomplishing this would be OOC I'm afraid.

 

[justinkal]

My point is that Baleful Eclipse is the spell which most resembles our chosen path of non-lethal. And like I stated it has his own big advantages, which goes beyond combat. I consider nubers within 6 digits here as high, even more so if I look at the other really strong MG´s like Abyss Knight and so on. Level 15 seems like overkill and I am willing to go down to lvl 13 but that is a level we shpould absolutly have, if we consider Paladin as the MG with the thickest defense. (Which I would doubt without informations.)

I think that the advantages of having a spell on numbers which most likely wont need to be raised the rest of this Quest gives us much more possibilitys int the votes outside of combats which take the majority of all votes until now.
Together with the other advantages it outclasses nearly everything else within long term planning. Because we are now nearly 2/3 through this quest it would be even more or less ok to have a thing where we outclass nearly everything else. It would be even logical in most storys.

Building exspecially enemys so that our (very) few combats would be difficult seems not needed and can be much more easely completed with secondary objectives. At least it would be more or less wasted effort, when we are this far into the story. It would make much more sense to build the road to the ending and having enough foreshadowing towards that.

But besides that we should really go the way, that we can knockout Paladin within 1 hit, to avoid any bad surprises or risk to get killed again.

Click to shrink...

I agree that it's a spell that fits the "don't kill people" path well.

I still think a better way to deal non-lethally with really strong enemies is Sunlight Scepter. Use Baleful Eclipse for KOing things that would get overkilled by Sunlight Scepter, are on their last legs, or when it's abilities are particularly noteworthy, but use Sunlight Scepter as the standard means of offense.

This is because Sunlight Scepter can also be non-lethal, can be used multiple times in a single turn no matter the time of day, and also makes it harder to hurt us. It's damage also scales with level faster than Baleful Eclipse's does.


Basically, I'm advocating focusing our offensive levels on Sunlight Scepter, but when the gap between the damage of Sunlight Scepter and Baleful Eclipse gets large enough that there exists a range of "too strong to be defeated by Baleful Eclipse, but too weak to be hit non-lethally with Sunlight Scepter", then level up Baleful Eclipse to plug the gap.

That's what I mean by seeing it as a secondary thing.

 

[Mellithae]

Can anyone think of a good way to control which twin would get attacked by Paladin if Paladin uses Energy Surge?

Because 4 levels in Sunlight Scepter allows Sun to no sell Paladin's attack while also allowing her to OHKO Brave Heart with a melee attack. Could also pair it with two levels in Veil of the Lunar Goddess to let Moon (barely) survive two consecutive attacks from Paladin.

That's Sunlight Scepter 10->14 and Veil of the Lunar Goddess 13->15.

That would be Moon uses Scorching Sunlight on Brave Heart followed by Sun OHKOing Brave Heart with melee. And then surviving Paladin's attacks.

If there's a way to do this, I prefer it greatly over leveling up Baleful Eclipse.

Click to shrink...

Honestly, that sounds fine to me too.

 

[Dragou]

I agree that it's a spell that fits the "don't kill people" path well.

I still think a better way to deal non-lethally with really strong enemies is Sunlight Scepter. Use Baleful Eclipse for KOing things that would get overkilled by Sunlight Scepter, are on their last legs, or when it's abilities are particularly noteworthy, but use Sunlight Scepter as the standard means of offense.

This is because Sunlight Scepter can also be non-lethal, can be used multiple times in a single turn no matter the time of day, and also makes it harder to hurt us. It's damage also scales with level faster than Baleful Eclipse's does.


Basically, I'm advocating focusing our offensive levels on Sunlight Scepter, but when the gap between the damage of Sunlight Scepter and Baleful Eclipse gets large enough that there exists a range of "too strong to be defeated by Baleful Eclipse, but too weak to be hit non-lethally with Sunlight Scepter", then level up Baleful Eclipse to plug the gap.

That's what I mean by seeing it as a secondary thing.

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But this doesnt consider the other advantages of leveling Baleful Eclipse and do some level ups into our Scepter isnt wrong but even its utility dont give us that much advantages like upgrading Baleful Eclipse at last up to lvl 13. More so if we dont know our enemy, because it is much more likely to go overkill if we dont know the stats of our enemys.

 

[kelllogo]

I did not veto you wanting to say something. I vetoed the choice of words because it was OoC in not one but several ways.

Maybe I should have made that more clear.

Overall, I do think you did well on the plans so far.

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Thank you.

I apologize for treating what you said/vetoed (speech out of character) as telling everyone to not vote for plans I made. >_> It did put me in an irritating dilemma where if I changed wording myself it would stay suspect and if I try passing wording off to you it's making the GM write out the vote.

In other news, I have a chance to sit down and spell out Plan Boink, Boink, Boink

First bring Sunlight Scepter to level 15 (600 EXP). It's quite good for most defense and attack, as well as focusing EXP on something that's starting to shine from the exponential growth.

Then, as an optional bit of theater, Sun should swoop in to demand Brave and Pally leave her sister alone! Sun will be playing the determined twin she is and Moon should be a more hesitant character. Bonus points if Moon can say we're not supposed to hurt them, just capture. Then Sun charges at Brave Heart with her weapon held high.

At level 15, after improving her defenses with the first hit, the next one that connects should do about 2.4k damage after Brave Heart's defenses...

Huh, I thought it would take more hits than that. No Primordial Sun bouncing Brave Heart off of a wall with knockback then. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Kinda ruins the namesake part of this plan.

I guess the next step is healing Brave Heart with Become Whole Again to make sure she's okay after eating an attack that does more than her max Health (full to zero is bad for you). And to make Unyielding Paladin's eye twitch. Use the wimpy heal because I don't want her jumping back to her feet instantly.

 

[justinkal]

Thank you.

I apologize for treating what you said/vetoed (speech out of character) as telling everyone to not vote for plans I made. >_> It did put me in an irritating dilemma where if I changed wording myself it would stay suspect and if I try passing wording off to you it's making the GM write out the vote.

In other news, I have a chance to sit down and spell out Plan Boink, Boink, Boink

First bring Sunlight Scepter to level 15 (600 EXP). It's quite good for most defense and attack, as well as focusing EXP on something that's starting to shine from the exponential growth.

Then, as an optional bit of theater, Sun should swoop in to demand Brave and Pally leave her sister alone! Sun will be playing the determined twin she is and Moon should be a more hesitant character. Bonus points if Moon can say we're not supposed to hurt them, just capture. Then Sun charges at Brave Heart with her weapon held high.

At level 15, after improving her defenses with the first hit, the next one that connects should do about 2.4k damage after Brave Heart's defenses...

Huh, I thought it would take more hits than that. No Primordial Sun bouncing Brave Heart off of a wall with knockback then. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Kinda ruins the namesake part of this plan.

I guess the next step is healing Brave Heart with Become Whole Again to make sure she's okay after eating an attack that does more than her max Health (full to zero is bad for you). And to make Unyielding Paladin's eye twitch. Use the wimpy heal because I don't want her jumping back to her feet instantly.

Click to shrink...

If my quick math is correct, oneshoting Brave Heart and no selling Paladin's attack actually only needs level 14, not 15. Also avoids the chance of getting a surprise weapon ability that pushes it over the threshold into lethal.

And leaves enough EXP remaining that it's possible to grab up to two levels in Veil of the Lunar Goddess so that Moon can survive a few of Paladin's hits too.

 

[kelllogo]

If my quick math is correct, oneshoting Brave Heart and no selling Paladin's attack actually only needs level 14, not 15. Also avoids the chance of getting a surprise weapon ability that pushes it over the threshold into lethal.

Click to shrink...

I think there's an extra Attack gained at 15. 4 APT makes that go much smoother in my view.

And as for math...
This is Sun attacking alone, keeping her modifier of 5,792.

Swing Damage:                                66,693 (14),   115,413 (15)
Amount that goes to Brave's Resilience:      36,238 (14),    72,778 (15)
Total Defense after first hit:               54,613 (14),    91,153 (15)
Damage of subsequent swings after reduction:  1,208 (14),     2,426 (15)

 

[justinkal]

I think there's an extra Attack gained at 15. 4 APT makes that go much smoother in my view.

And as for math...
This is Sun attacking alone, keeping her modifier of 5,792.

Swing Damage:                                66,693 (14),   115,413 (15)
Amount that goes to Brave's Resilience:      36,238 (14),    72,778 (15)
Total Defense after first hit:               54,613 (14),    91,153 (15)
Damage of subsequent swings after reduction:  1,208 (14),     2,426 (15)

Click to shrink...

The extra APT helps with dodging, but it doesn't help if Paladin chooses to attack Moon instead, which is quite possible considering that she has a lot of APT.

If we're dropping Brave Heart in a single hit anyways (she'll never get a chance to cast Avatar of Retribution), then its fine to have Moon cast Scorching Sunlight to break Heroes Never Die, just like she did before. What will be different is that Sun will KO Brave Heart immediately, preventing Affinity Kill from being triggered, and Sun will have enough defense to no sell Paladin's attack (well, technically a hair too little, but Radiance and Shining Protector should give her enough time to get a higher roll saved).

I ran the math and got the following table.


If you want to double check that my math is correct, here's the last 3 formulas (leaving out the FLOOR functions).

• Column D: B + (0.25 * B) + 5972 + C + 100
• Column E: (D - (15598 + 208 + 4211)) / 10
• Column F: 105 + 5972 + (2 * C) + 500

For E, 15598 and 208 were the values that occurred from the Bad End's dice rolls.

Using the EXP that's left over after bringing Sunlight Scepter to 14 in order to raise Veil of the Lunar Goddess to 15 would bring Moon to 285475 Health, which is slightly more than double the Total Damage that Paladin had last time (138,886).

An option with slightly different risks is to only put 3 levels into Sunlight Scepter, hope for a decent enough dice roll to finish off Brave Heart, and grab a third level for Veil of the Lunar Goddess so that Moon can no sell Paladin while Sun can survive 3 hits (one no sell from Radiance and 2 redirects via Shining Protector). In that situation, a sufficient dice roll for OHKOing Brave Heart is 8500, which would be 25% of max.

 

[Naron]

2) It could run into issues if Brave Heart (whose name is still typo'd in it) dodges Chi's bind now that she knows it's around. That would still slow her down, but she would still have more actions per turn than we can dodge.

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She has no Dodge-type Ability, so how would she do that? The only ones who maybe could do it are Skill-Affinity girls.

While I agree with you that adding drama to a story for no reason isn't good I also feel that removing drama from is a story for no reason is just as bad.

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See, this is where we disagree.

Me adding Baleful Eclipse to the twins' set does not take dramatic tension away, at least not much. For one because you can see how no one wants to bring it high enough to end fights in one turn, but also because it makes sense for the twins to get it. They want to not have to kill people, want to be good and help.

It is true that the conflict of having to get good enough for non-lethal takedowns and accepting sometimes you have to kill is gone somewhat, but... well, the players got to vote on it several times. Each time they refused to give a single thought to it, making the twins fervently believe in wanting to save everyone if they can. That formed the foundation to get this Spell.

On the other hand, this kind of mindset is not good to have for ten-year-olds in the first place. Traumatising children just for the sake of drama is something I personally rather not do. There is enough other sources of conflict to boot.


Edit:

if I try passing wording off to you it's making the GM write out the vote.

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That is much what I prefer, though. Too many votes on SV die a horrible death because players include a piece of faulty wording that screws them over.
I rather get directions of where to take the twins' dialogue, then write it out myself.

If my quick math is correct, oneshoting Brave Heart and no selling Paladin's attack actually only needs level 14, not 15. Also avoids the chance of getting a surprise weapon ability that pushes it over the threshold into lethal.

Click to shrink...

Reminder that no normal weapons receive more than three Abilities.
There will be no more for a long while.

 

[justinkal]

She has no Dodge-type Ability, so how would she do that? The only ones who maybe could do it are Skill-Affinity girls.

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That's more a worry about raw skill and instincts from fighting lots of battles.

Reminder that no normal weapons receive more than three Abilities.
There will be no more for a long while.

Click to shrink...

Yes, but that doesn't preclude an existing ability from upgrading to something more dangerous, since that's still only 3 abilities

 

[kelllogo]

Julia's Bad End
or "why didn't she cast Avatar of Retribution right off the bat?"
​

Just like before the wall turns into so much dust when Unyielding Paladin's shield-charge meets it. Her instincts had been right, the trio that attacked you was catching their breath arranged around the intersection.

All wide eyed in surprise. You leap into action to press the advantage. The blue twin was much sturdier than the pink twin, you'll knock the staff from her hand before she recognizes you're there and-

"Pr1SoN &f Si/k!"

Strands of silk fill your vision and cover your body. Your slightest movements pull them taunt and imprison you totally. The aggravating sensation of magical imprisonment takes hold.

"Not again!" you howl

Unyielding Paladin cuts most of the silk away with a wide swing of her sword, "Here."

You take the offered arm and are yanked free quickly enough to blur your vision. Her aim is something you can trust, so as you fly you shout.

"Avatar-!"

With your unburdened hand you slam the blue twin into the wall.

"-of Retribution!"

Jumping forward on a shaky foothold robs you of your typical speed. A pair of slashes disable your first target, but the other twin barely squeaks out of range.

Right into your comrade's arms. Unyielding Paladin pulls her shield close, trapping the active twin's head under her arm. The black-clad swordswoman hisses in frustration as she fails to get a tighter circle, probably trying to intervene in your capture.

She's going to be tricky to catch. And you still aren't sure where the imprisoning girl is hiding. You crouch to pull the blue twin over your shoulder in a fireman's carry, it wouldn't do to have the hidden girl retrieve her.

"Let them go!" Soul Queller insists.

Unyielding Paladin pokes her sword at the girl she's holding!

"I have a counter proposal. If you release Supreme Tech our arms would be full."

"Hey! You promised!" you protest.

"Lemme go!" the pink twin shouts, muffled by having her head trapped under Paladin's armpit.

"Otherwise," Paladin raises her voice, "I would have to do whatever is necessary to ensure the survival of Supreme Tech. You understand."

What is she doing? These dregs would sacrifice anyone to save their own skins!

You force yourself to calm down. That is what she's offering, they'll have to see that. They drop Tech and everyone walks away for now. Not ideal, but you can't fault her reasoning since these two could escape from your current group even if you weren't weighed down.

"Okay, we'll give you Tech if you-"

Paladin cuts her off, "Nope! What I was pointing out was that you could probably escape if I had to unwrap Tech while carrying this bundle of joy."

Everyone is quiet and still for a moment.

"They'll be fine. Brave Heart says they're healers and they're adorable twins. Everyone would be a lot better off if these two get to spend time healing the sick instead of being chewed up by your pitiful rebellion."

"Scorching"-"Sunlight!"

A bright light erupts from under Unyielding Paladin's shield. A Ray shoots from your shoulder into her's.

"AAA!!!" There's a scream and the smell of burning hair mixed with burnt meat.

Unyielding Paladin's sword arm falls limp, followed by the rest of her in suddenly white-hot armor.

How could this happen? What did you miss?

You were wrong, or even if you were right it's too late now. The twins aren't hero material anymore.

With a curious mix of rage, shock and disappointment you tighten your grip on the twin you were carrying. Blood spurts from the corpse.

Silk shoots out from several directions. You try to avoid some but are entangled anyways.

Soul Queller is screaming something you have no care to understand and shaking the pink twin. She must have burned herself to death killing your friend. Good.

It's not your happiest thought, but it stays with you while Soul Queller cuts your trapped form to ribbons.

 

[Faraway-R]

No, it's not strictly number based. If it was, the soft mechanics wouldn't exist.

The actual points of potential failure with that plan are
1) It ignores the possibility that the soldiers are off doing something and doesn't try to check up on that after defeating the MGs but before meeting up with our allies.

2) It could run into issues if Brave Heart (whose name is still typo'd in it) dodges Chi's bind now that she knows it's around. That would still slow her down, but she would still have more actions per turn than we can dodge.

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1) The soldiers we've seen held a finger to their temple then shot roughly in our direction, missing by quite a bit. You know what this looks like?

o7 - an abbreviated salute. That's what it looks like. Our mission statement is to collect the girls and let the soldiers return. I think they aren't our vehement enemies.

2) Prison of silk was cast from everywhere in the room. I am not worried about Brave Heart evading it.

To be fair, Plan In The Blink of an Eye isn't a bad one either. The one-two of Scorching Sunlight 10 (RADIANCE) and Baleful Eclipse 12 deals 8371 damage to soften Paladin up (14k if in Arcane Surge) and follows it with 49662-6875-4430=37.4k damage, or 19.7k after ShieldWall. Even non-Radianced Scorching Sunlight might give us enough leeway to knock Paladin out.

The big assumption of the currently winning plan is actually surviving Paladin's rampage long enough to use this.

I agree that it's a spell that fits the "don't kill people" path well.

I still think a better way to deal non-lethally with really strong enemies is Sunlight Scepter. Use Baleful Eclipse for KOing things that would get overkilled by Sunlight Scepter, are on their last legs, or when it's abilities are particularly noteworthy, but use Sunlight Scepter as the standard means of offense.

This is because Sunlight Scepter can also be non-lethal, can be used multiple times in a single turn no matter the time of day, and also makes it harder to hurt us. It's damage also scales with level faster than Baleful Eclipse's does.


Basically, I'm advocating focusing our offensive levels on Sunlight Scepter, but when the gap between the damage of Sunlight Scepter and Baleful Eclipse gets large enough that there exists a range of "too strong to be defeated by Baleful Eclipse, but too weak to be hit non-lethally with Sunlight Scepter", then level up Baleful Eclipse to plug the gap.

That's what I mean by seeing it as a secondary thing.

Click to shrink...

I agree on principle. But Baleful Eclipse has an advantage of being a Spell (cannot be easily intercepted and ignores skill negation except for dodging), and being a RANGED attack.

I think there's an extra Attack gained at 15. 4 APT makes that go much smoother in my view.

And as for math...
This is Sun attacking alone, keeping her modifier of 5,792.

Swing Damage:                                66,693 (14),   115,413 (15)
Amount that goes to Brave's Resilience:      36,238 (14),    72,778 (15)
Total Defense after first hit:               54,613 (14),    91,153 (15)
Damage of subsequent swings after reduction:  1,208 (14),     2,426 (15)

Click to shrink...

You forgot to take Radiance into account. 100k vs 54.5k means post-reduction damage of 4550 or so.

Scepter 13 (5802, 10443, 18797, 33894) has enough to break Heroes Never Die (40k damage incoming), then make a 16947+33894+5792+2396=50841+8188=59k RADIANCE hit on 34k defense (75% of 40k, and 4k after), so it's maybe (25k left) enough. But Radiance'd Scepter 14 works too. Question is, will it kill Brave Heart or not.

 

[Naron]

That's more a worry about raw skill and instincts from fighting lots of battles.

Yes, but that doesn't preclude an existing ability from upgrading to something more dangerous, since that's still only 3 abilities

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As far as I know, there is no falsifying Skillful Dodge or any of its derivatives without a fitting Affinity.
The only ones I would expect to be capable of doing this are Skill and Battle.

Additionally, what do you think will get upgraded on a weapon with "Modifier Save | Knockback | Batter", three Abilities without higher forms?

Julia's Bad End
or "why didn't she cast Avatar of Retribution right off the bat?"

Click to shrink...

...I guess I deserve that for the Omake I made. Nicely done. A little rough around the edges though, but that is mostly from having too few references for how Brave Heart thinks.

 

[LightLan]

Additionally, what do you think will get upgraded on a weapon with "Modifier Save | Knockback | Batter", three Abilities without higher forms?

Click to shrink...

Auto Max Charge eventually, though since it is a super ability I do not expect it to happen anytime soon.

Does Energy Surge deactivate Shieldwall or only Base Resilience?

 

[Naron]

Auto Max Charge eventually, though since it is a super ability I do not expect it to happen anytime soon.

Does Energy Surge deactivate Shieldwall or only Base Resilience?

Click to shrink...

In general, Super Abilities do not find their way on any weapon or Spell below level 40 as a minimum.
There are exceptions, but those are always based on a character's Ability.

One example would be MG ERROR/End:

SYSTEM ERROR
-Auto-evolve all weapon and spell abilities to their ultimate form upon attainment.

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Energy Surge deactivates everything that would reduce damage for Alicia.

 

[Faraway-R]

Energy Surge deactivates everything that would reduce damage for Alicia.

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Wait... Everything as in "including her Final End Damage percentage reduction ability Shieldwall"???

We cannot afford to cast Radiance'd Scorching Sunlight on her then.

 

[Naron]

Wait... Everything as in "including her Final End Damage percentage reduction ability Shieldwall"???

We cannot afford to cast Radiance'd Scorching Sunlight on her then.

Click to shrink...

Yes, everything. It is an Ability to turn a powerful defense into a powerful offense.

 

[LightLan]

It would, though only barely.
With the previous attempt to control damage giving some help, there is also Skilled and Discipline helping you in the matter. Not to mention the fact you are not 'overkilling' her by too much after damage reduction.

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Since Naron confirms here, that raising the scepter by 5 levels will not autokill her, have this plan:

[X] Exp Plan capture
-[X] Sunlight Scepter 10 -> 15 (600 EXP)
-[X] Baleful Eclipse 10 -> 11 (100 EXP)

[X] Plan capture
-[X] Reassure them, you are here to capture, not kill them. You won't be made to fight for something you do not believe in though, nor will you allow others to be pressed into service.
-[X] Soul keeps looking like she'll take out Brave Heart, if given a chance, forcing Paladin to keep an eye on her.
-[X] Moon pops heroes never die with Scorching Sunlight. Sun uses the opening to subdue Brave Heart with a standard attack
-[X] Moon flies out of range of Paladin
-[X] Sun uses Scorching Sunlight on Paladin, holding back enough as to not kill her
--[X] If Paladin was previously hurt enough to not be able to survive even a held back Scorching Sunlight, subdue her normally (keeping your increased strength in mind) or wait for Baleful Eclipse to become available again
-[X] Chi keeps an eye out for whatever to soldiers are planning

How I expect this to go:
Brave Heart is subdued without being able to do anything. even if she skill negates Sun's first attack, Sun can throw out another one.
Even if Paladin intercepts the attack, Sun will win the intercept conflict with a middling modifier roll.
Paladin uses Energy Surge and attacks Sun, because she is closer and has just proven herself a threat. The attack glances of due to increased defense of Sun.
Paladin gets a Scorching Sunlight to the face and is badly hurt, likely subdued. Heal her afterwards.

 

[justinkal]

1) The soldiers we've seen held a finger to their temple then shot roughly in our direction, missing by quite a bit. You know what this looks like?

o7 - an abbreviated salute. That's what it looks like. Our mission statement is to collect the girls and let the soldiers return. I think they aren't our vehement enemies.

2) Prison of silk was cast from everywhere in the room. I am not worried about Brave Heart evading it.

To be fair, Plan In The Blink of an Eye isn't a bad one either. The one-two of Scorching Sunlight 10 (RADIANCE) and Baleful Eclipse 12 deals 8371 damage to soften Paladin up (14k if in Arcane Surge) and follows it with 49662-6875-4430=37.4k damage, or 19.7k after ShieldWall. Even non-Radianced Scorching Sunlight might give us enough leeway to knock Paladin out.

The big assumption of the currently winning plan is actually surviving Paladin's rampage long enough to use this.

I agree on principle. But Baleful Eclipse has an advantage of being a Spell (cannot be easily intercepted and ignores skill negation except for dodging), and being a RANGED attack.
You forgot to take Radiance into account. 100k vs 54.5k means post-reduction damage of 4550 or so.

Scepter 13 (5802, 10443, 18797, 33894) has enough to break Heroes Never Die (40k damage incoming), then make a 16947+33894+5792+2396=50841+8188=59k RADIANCE hit on 34k defense (75% of 40k, and 4k after), so it's maybe (25k left) enough. But Radiance'd Scepter 14 works too. Question is, will it kill Brave Heart or not.

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I think its unlikely that the soldiers are a threat, but there's no harm in checking.

I abandoned that plan once we got confirmation that 5 or less Sunlight Scepter levels won't kill Brave Heart.

As far as I know, there is no falsifying Skillful Dodge or any of its derivatives without a fitting Affinity.
The only ones I would expect to be capable of doing this are Skill and Battle.

Additionally, what do you think will get upgraded on a weapon with "Modifier Save | Knockback | Batter", three Abilities without higher forms?

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What do you call what White Soul was doing? I meant anticipating that the bind will happen, and doing something before it even gets cast.

There's things that can happen, especially considering that new abilities can be made. Worry is mainly something like Knockback getting upgraded to a stronger version that causes her KOd body to collide with something at super high speed and kill her (or become Dimension Hop, but that's unlikely) or for Batter to get upgraded to a better version.

Since Naron confirms here, that raising the scepter by 5 levels will not autokill her, have this plan:

[X] Exp Plan capture
-[X] Sunlight Scepter 10 -> 15 (600 EXP)
-[X] Baleful Eclipse 10 -> 11 (100 EXP)

[X] Plan capture
-[X] Reassure them, you are here to capture, not kill them. You won't be made to fight for something you do not believe in though, nor will you allow others to be pressed into service.
-[X] Soul keeps looking like she'll take out Brave Heart, if given a chance, forcing Paladin to keep an eye on her.
-[X] Moon pops heroes never die with Scorching Sunlight. Sun uses the opening to subdue Brave Heart with a standard attack
-[X] Moon gets more distance from Paladin
-[X] Sun uses Scorching Sunlight on Paladin, holding back enough as to not kill her
--[X] If Paladin was previously hurt enough to not be able to survive even a held back Scorching Sunlight, subdue her normally (keeping your increased strength in mind) or wait for Baleful Eclipse to become available again
-[X] Chi keeps an eye out for whatever to soldiers are planning

How I expect this to go:
Brave Heart is subdued without being able to do anything. even if she skill negates Sun's first attack, Sun can throw out another one.
Even if Paladin intercepts the attack, Sun will win the intercept conflict with a middling modifier roll.
Paladin uses Energy Surge and attacks Sun, because she is closer and has just proven herself a threat. The attack glances of due to increased defense of Sun.
Paladin gets a Scorching Sunlight to the face and is badly hurt, likely subdued. Heal her afterwards.

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What I don't like about this is that it falls apart if Paladin chooses to target Moon. Moon dies if Paladin hits her once. Also, we never got confirmation that Paladin with Energy Surge will be able to survive the upgraded Sunlight Scepter, only that Brave Heart (with far more damage reduction) will.

Level 15 Sunlight Scepter is the amount to always win an Intercept against Paladin regardless of MM rolls. Level 14 lets us win as long as we roll at least 25% of max during or before the Intercept (like when attacking Brave Heart).

Level 16 Veil of the Lunar Goddess is enough for Moon to no sell Paladin, but we can't afford both that and 14 Sunlight Scepter, just 15, which lets Moon survive 2 hits from Paladin.

 

[Naron]

What do you call what White Soul was doing? I meant anticipating that the bind will happen, and doing something before it even gets cast.

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Abusing the exact working of a Spell with the "Clone Self"-Ability. Look at Brave Heart's sheet; does she have anything even remotely useful to dodging?

 

[LightLan]

What I don't like about this is that it falls apart if Paladin chooses to target Moon. Moon dies if Paladin hits her once. Also, we never got confirmation that Paladin with Energy Surge will be able to survive the upgraded Sunlight Scepter, only that Brave Heart (with far more damage reduction) will.

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I try to address this by having Moon get distance between Paladin and herself.
Paladin would have to get past Sun, while staying ready to intercept attacks from Soul, lest she will be subdued in her Energy Surge.

We also have enough APT left to negate a single attack of Paladin if she reaches Moon, which will allow both Sun and Soul to catch up to Paladin and knock her out from behind.

 

[Faraway-R]

On LightLan's plan:

I can see Brave Heart losing out to the twins. Just a slightly different form of coordinated attack is all it would take.

But the point justinkal made is made well - Paladin section is lackluster.

ALL THAT ASIDE - how do you guys see the options for purchasing the following things in the foreseeable future:
1) Sunlight Scepter 15 (600)
2) Radiant Shine Unbroken (650)
3) Veil of the Lunar Goddess 15 (270)
4) Mistress of the Tide (700)
5) Advanced Connection - World Eater (500)
6) Radiant Conductor (180)

The total cost for all this is 3000 EXP. It has 2 new Supers. Grants excellent durability to Sun (109k MM) and Moon (71k no-sell). Likely gives Moon a decent melee capability.

Also gives proper telepathy to Ana. Or at least the shared vision and hearing.

 

[justinkal]

Abusing the exact working of a Spell with the "Clone Self"-Ability. Look at Brave Heart's sheet; does she have anything even remotely useful to dodging?

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White Soul wasn't limited to once per turn (which being spell based would imply)? Was said she could even walk around outdoors in the rain without getting wet if she wanted to.

I try to address this by having Moon get distance between Paladin and herself.
Paladin would have to get past Sun, while staying ready to intercept attacks from Soul, lest she will be subdued in her Energy Surge.

We also have enough APT left to negate a single attack of Paladin if she reaches Moon, which will allow both Sun and Soul to catch up to Paladin and knock her out from behind.

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The concern is that Paladin has 6 APT (one gets used activating Energy Surge). So she might try attacking Sun, realizes it doesn't work, then attacks Moon instead, and then attack Moon again after Moon dodges. That's only 4 of her 6 attacks.