- Location
- Earth
a) Ana knew there would be risks and wanted this
b) This will not happen
Additionally, it seems time to close the votes.
Libra's Lament, a Magical Girl Quest [Complete]
- Thread starter Naron
- Start date
- Original
b) This will not happen
Additionally, it seems time to close the votes.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
Hora.
There are also WOG that Soothing Moonlight has no further upgrades, IIRC. And that Become Whole Again has at least Reincarnation if we make it high enough.
On that note, here's the expected Become Whole Again healing values, barring upgrades (which it'll sorely need with its x1.2 modifier):
Level 05 - 103 Heal
Level 10 - 253 Heal
Level 15 - 626 Heal
Level 20 - 1556 Heal
Level 25 - 3870 Heal
I guess we'll see if I my votecrafting skill is poor or abysmal.
Naron, please be mindful Baker's Dozen has two purchases - Eclipse and Scepter.
- Location
- Earth
there also were some hints it'll get overheal.
- Location
- Earth
Yup, I noticed.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
Sentence too ambiguous, name the spell you're referring to.
- Location
- Earth
Become Whole Again.
Naron will never give us Overheal on Soothing Moonlight.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
I sure hope there are plans plans to give BWA a general effectiveness boost as well, because toting barely 60k healing on LEVEL 40 for Become Whole Again is kinda weak for an exponential growth designed girls. Though Level 50 (that's 12250 experience for you scrubs, 7800 for level 40) will have 375k or so.
Although, Spring's Dream has her Revitalize have 32k/32k values and level 40... Her Avatar of Nature super makes it some 80k average at that point.
- Location
- Earth
Take note of the fact Spring can only cast it once per turn.
If you went the actual spellcaster-route (both Omni-Casters and Multi-Caster), you could use Become Whole Again a whole lot more than that.
- Location
- Secret City
I probably don't know what I'm talking about here, and I am sorry if I'm wrong (I am probably wrong), but I feel that the names of the spells/abilities (or at least the descriptions of the spells/abilities) poorly conveyed that these routes even existed. Whenever I read the store items (both already bought and available) I always got a "mmorpg class exp-shop" sort of feel (which generally encourages the player to buy any of the shop items because they are all apart of your "class" and all the items are all meant to mix in beneficial ways), but after reading through this quest's shop and the recent discussions about what purchases to make I get the idea that the intent for this quest was to have a "choose your class through your purchases" sort of system, but instead what happened was that for the longest time players treated it similar(not exact) to the mmorpg system, the shop, with it's numerous (neat and creative) names for abilities, made it hard to infer what to actual system was.
One thing that could have helped (if I may be rude enough to assume that I know more than Naron for a second or two, if not then I apologize) is maybe a general naming scheme early on to imply what spells/abilities the players should expect to be the start of each route (could also imply other things such as a offensive focus set or a healing focused set but risks are risks) and later on in each route the system becomes more and more clearly seen the naming scheme slowly disappears as it's no longer needed(or maybe the opposite happens and the naming scheme only starts to appear later on)
Again I am sorry if I am wrong but I am curious, how did Naron intend for the players to find these "routes"?
sorry about the length of this, I find stuff like naming schemes and the stuff they are used for interesting, sorry.
- Location
- Earth
I... have to be honest here, most parts are self-explaining.
Some, like the Super Abilities and Joint purchases, are always viable of course.
Every Item has a name and an explanation that gives decent hints about what they do and where they might go. I admit that some are more cryptic than others.
Additionally, there are no actual "routes". There are specialisations. Each of which is visible with what is there from putting some thought into it.
As for example, Primordial Legacy supports strategies that separate the twins and have them work in different places. They do not lock someone into a certain 'class', but simply give them a focus.
The problem I see here was, probably, that the players failed to realise EXP is limited and buying everything is not a good idea.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
You have said it before, Naron.
As before, this claim sounds to me like "the players wasted their limited EXP frivolously".
We did not.
The EXP purchases we made have ALWAYS fallen into one of four branches:
1) Connection and similar Joint purchases. Culminating in Absolute Connection and Harmonious Incorpiration. Taken to its logical conclusion.
2) Essential survivability upgrades, all leading up to Veil of the Solar/Lunar Goddess abilities. Taken to their logical conclusion.
3) Moon extra abilities - focus on overall damage mitigation for herself and allies. Still want her second Super, though.
4) Basic Spell and Ability increases - which we're only now raising to levels higher than 10.
Frankly, that claim I said how it sounds like? Is incredibly unfair.
Veteran MG are supposed to have about 20k EXP on her, by CWMGQ standards. We have 13k spread out among THREE magical girls.
Edit: and everything we purchased, we actually did use, too.
Last edited:
- Location
- Earth
Um... yes.
But I vividly remember a lot of people planning to clean out the Shop.
Had I not said anything at that time, you probably would have done so.
You are right in that you did not do it, but one of the bigger reasons for that is me intervening before you did.
Edit:
You are not even close to being veterans. Ana is not, either.
Additionally, that number is brought forth from a setting where you have endless tons of mooks you can kill for EXP.
Libra does not have that.
Edit 2:
From the look of, I also think that you misunderstood the tone of my post.
I was not putting blame on anyone; rather, I was explaining that a misunderstanding likely led to the earlier confusion about how to go about spending.
Last edited:
Well, technically Libra does. Its just that the twins don't want to kill those mooks
- Location
- Earth
Good point. They had so little relevance lately that I forgot about that partWell, technically Libra does. Its just that the twins don't want to kill those mooks
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
About pre-edit: Fair enough. And thank you for intervening.
About Edit: Well, not anymore that is. Four Seasons, Strength and Night do have the raw levels of abilities that indicate their own personal graveyards being quite huge.
---Also, there are two friendly Summoners here for if we WANT TO engage in countless mooks slaughter.
About Edit 2: Instead, it apparently led to a radically opposite direction of keeping the EXP hoarded miserly.
- Location
- Earth
A) Yes; at the time they were noobs, there still were nigh endless tons of mooks to kill
B) Looking at the fact you have ~180xp saved at the moment, I rather disagree. Especially because the main reason for the hoarding was that some people wanted to save for Celestial Ascendance.
- Location
- behind you
I will just say WW 3. They have killed more than enough people within that. That was more than enough hinted and said, especially Nightmare Child.
And I would have loved to get Celestial Ascendance, but sadly our overall situation didnt really could get us there. Not unless I can press enough EXP out of Naron that we can still get it, even if it is just at the end of this quest.
Last edited:
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
About B - that miserly hoarding was because you introduced both the concept of Limited EXP, and Celestial Ascendance.A) Yes; at the time they were noobs, there still were nigh endless tons of mooks to kill
B) Looking at the fact you have ~180xp saved at the moment, I rather disagree. Especially because the main reason for the hoarding was that some people wanted to save for Celestial Ascendance.
And as for EXP spending?
At a minimum, you can expect me to vote for Radiant Conductor, Sunlight Scepter 15, and Veil of the Lunar Goddess 15 after the current debacle.
For reasons of "Decent less-than-lethal option for Moon to use without expending spells", "survivability boost for Sun" and "survivability boost for Moon".
- Location
- UTC -6
For claim 4: bringing things above level 5 is actally a big investment. Level 5 is 100 EXP and should give a good hint of what the intended effect is. And exponential growth means spreading out further badly robs what should be core effects of usefulness. The EXP that brought Scorching Ray from lvl 5 to level 10 could have paid for Moon's Health perk reaching level 15. And those later levels give much more bang for your buck.
For 3: Trying to cover holes is pricy. Dropping survivability for spell-slinging power plus dodge would free up a lot of EXP to crank spells up. Imagine smacking this encounter with 3 Baleful Eclipses a round but having no protector or veil...
And lastly, sometimes players make very boneheaded decisions from the perspective of the guy behind the curtains
- Location
- Earth
I just wanted to make it clear this is an option. A viable one even.
Besides, the concept was not introduced at that point... I just explicitely said to keep an eye on that.
Um... a word of advice, you rather want to spend on her Scepter if that is the goal. Radiant Conductor is not really what you want.
I don't really think that non-spell offense for Moon is a worthwhile investment.
Training to make use of Return | Levitate to throw her Scepter at things sounds a lot more worthwhile, because that lets her trigger the Connection's synchronize bonus without getting in melee range of enemies, which bolsters Sun's ability to do non-spell non-lethal attacks.
Training to make use of Return | Levitate to throw her Scepter at things sounds a lot more worthwhile, because that lets her trigger the Connection's synchronize bonus without getting in melee range of enemies, which bolsters Sun's ability to do non-spell non-lethal attacks.
- Location
- behind you
Wasnt moon the tank? Shouldnt she a better option in melee-combat than Sun?
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
Actually, level 5 to level 10 is 350 EXP. This is not a very big investment in my eyes. Somewhat pricey, but not too costly.
Level 10 to level 15 is 600 EXP. THIS is what I consider a sizeable investment.
My secondary purchases after those 15s are limited to two remaining Supers of Sun and Moon, mostly.
That said, anyone care to guess what they'd do?
1) Both of them replace a "once per turn" or "twice per turn" ability. Probably by making it unlimited use, or something.
2) As we've seen from Veil of the Solar Goddess, the effects were at least to double or quadruple aspects of the abilities replaced.
3) As we've seen from both Veil abilities, additional aspects of benefits are granted.
My hope for Mistress of the Tide is that it makes damage-taking from Shining Protector replacement not go to our health directly, but first be compared to our Veil no-sell.
My hope for Radiant Shine Unbroken is that it makes Sun impervious to Unstoppable, Judgement and Smite. And probably shifts the damage boost to "double the damage".
Hmmm. Okay. A pity though. But if so, then I won't spend it on her scepter after all.
Not quite. Moon is The Wall - no offense, absurd defense. That she spreads her defense to others is a bonus.
Sun is The Juggernaut - awesome offense, awesome defense.
Moon is the Immovable Object. Sun is the Unstoppable Force.
Last edited:
She's an unusual tank. She has a high No Sell Threshold, but almost no damage reduction whatsoever against things that get past the threshold.
Veil of the Solar Goddess + Shining Protector means that 'ideal' setup when Moon's NST is beaten is to control the layout of the battlefield such that enemy attacks target Sun but the Final End Damage is instead dealt to Moon. This would be aided immensely if Mistress of the Tides removes the twice per turn limit from Shining Protector, but that is quite an expensive upgrade and it isn't even certain that it does that.
Sun = DPS + Defense
Moon = Support + HP + No Sell
- Location
- UTC -6
Try adding up all the things you might want to bring to level 10.
Scorching Sunlight
Soothing Moonlight
Moon Health
Sun Health
Moon Flight
Sun Flight
Baleful Eclipse
Moon's Scepter
Sun's Scepter
If you try buying them all up to level 10 instead of level 5 that's 3150 EXP that's getting spread out instead of focused.
You could bring 2 items to level 17 with that much EXP. If you picked the Scepters they would have (293 Damage/355,170 Magic Modifier - 650 Damage/1,709 Magic Modifier) vs (63 Damage/5,802 Magic Modifier - 370 Damage/210 Magic Modifier) at level 10, for an example.
>_> And I want to spend EXP plugging in our newest member into the hivemind...