Libra's Lament, a Magical Girl Quest [Complete]

[Mellithae]

...you don't understand what happens, do you? It's not two different people gaining traits from another. When you merge two people's minds together you take every experience and flaw and virtue that makes them their own unique individual and mixes them together. Thus causing a brand new personality with traits that even the previous two beings didn't have. Because it's a new perspective experiencing different events.

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That's the best part! They get all the memories of both from both perspectives. That's literally a philosopher's dream.

Also, yes, I am aware that there is only one being at the end of it.

It changes the very core of who they are.

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I kinda disagree with this, though. Or at least the phrasing/implications. Who someone is is not a constant. It develops over time and experiences. You yourself acknowledged this. If something happens and it changes your opinion of something, that's an improvement. A lesson you learned. If your new opinion is wrong, oh well, change it. Just make sure you don't become unwilling to change it if contradictory evidence appears.

If Sun's Resilience is relevant, we're doing something wrong. That's the whole point of some of the upgrades in Moon's shop.

Also, keep in mind that every weapon level up multiplies Sun's magic modifier by 1.8 already. That upgrade multiplies it by 2.0 for slightly more EXP than the cost of going from level 8 to level 9. We'd get a lot more benefit from instead raising her weapon to level 10 to get that sweet milestone bonus.

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True. But it's worth more then upgrading to 11, and probably worth getting even if we aren't going past 10.

... Meh. Resilience isn't actually worth much after a certain point, a point we're more or less hitting if you count the MM actually. It becomes all about the End Damage reducers. Which she already has one in the form of Radiance.

So... meh.

Worse, it's unreliable. Because it can be anything from 1 to X. If you're relying on that, you're already fucked.


If was called SomethingSomething Fusion, I would at least say you're probably right about what's happening. Since it's Connection... not so much.

You remember Nepgear's No Longer Human upgrade? Ability names are (or should be) very on the nose when you look at them.

It's fairly trans-humanist, with how they are connected more deeply than humans are in our world, I'll admit, but... well, most magical girls kind of are on some level.

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This is also a good point. I don't think that's it. I'll just be happy if it is.

 

[Dragou]

... Meh. Resilience isn't actually worth much after a certain point, a point we're more or less hitting if you count the MM actually. It becomes all about the End Damage reducers. Which she already has one in the form of Radiance.

So... meh.

Worse, it's unreliable. Because it can be anything from 1 to X. If you're relying on that, you're already fucked.


If was called SomethingSomething Fusion, I would at least say you're probably right about what's happening. Since it's Connection... not so much.

You remember Nepgear's No Longer Human upgrade? Ability names are (or should be) very on the nose when you look at them.

It's fairly trans-humanist, with how they are connected more deeply than humans are in our world, I'll admit, but... well, most magical girls kind of are on some level.

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And even when i wanted to remain silent, let me say something AGAIN. Naron IS NOT the others. Therefore WHY do you assume that everything is like how the others made it? Maybe in this Quest HP and resilience are much better than in the other quests. We dont know and yet you say again and again that it is that way. Besides the fact that the merging of the 2 of them is already hinted often enough and even within their thoughts it is clear.

 

[ShadowAngelBeta]

And even when i wanted to remain silent, let me say something AGAIN. Naron IS NOT the others. Therefore WHY do you assume that everything is like how the others made it? Maybe in this Quest HP and resilience are much better than in the other quests. We dont know and yet you say again and again that it is that way. Besides the fact that the merging of the 2 of them is already hinted often enough and even within their thoughts it is clear.

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Umm... No? I'll assume Naron's working like the others cause that's a fun facet of the system he was inspired to write by until I'm told otherwise. Seriously, it's more likely he is than isn't. I can already picture how Radiance works probably, I'll see if I'm right or wrong later.

Or next update even if Naron describes how it looks and works in the text. *Shrug*

Also, uhh, no? That's just things getting sent down the connection back and forth by accident. Unless you have proof it's from a fusion instead? (protip: you don't).

 

[Dragou]

Umm... No? I'll assume Naron's working like the others cause that's a fun facet of the system he was inspired to write by until I'm told otherwise. Seriously, it's more likely he is than isn't. I can already picture how Radiance works probably, I'll see if I'm right or wrong later.

Or next update even if Naron describes how it looks and works in the text. *Shrug*

Also, uhh, no? That's just things getting sent down the connection back and forth by accident. Unless you have proof it's from a fusion instead? (protip: you don't).

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They confuse each other multiple times, because they are extremly close and originally Evas thoughts are having more and more Ricos thought within it and the differences and the whole thoughts are merging.
Besides it is inspired like you said. Inspired doesnt mean it will be 100% the same. Furthermore Naron has with most details something in his mind, more so if that detail appears multiple times. I dont realize everything myself either but I try to look at the details as much as I can.

 

[DarkKing98]

(protip: you don't)

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Funny. You literally have no proof that Naron won't go do things differently besides two abilities. One being a Super ability on a very important person and the other being on a character with shit defense. And even then, it's not a solid defensive or offensive ability.

Also, I have stated to you that there is evidence showing they are merging personalities. The thoughts tabs. They were originally Eva's. Then when a solid mental connection was made, Rico's appeared in gold. And now, Rico's is still there, but as the same color as Eva's thoughts. That last part? That's no connection. No connection on Earth would do that. Fictional or otherwise. It's an early sign of merging. Also, this:

They confuse each other multiple times, because they are extremly close and originally Evas thoughts are having more and more Ricos thought within it and the differences and the whole thoughts are merging.

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[Mellithae]

And even when i wanted to remain silent, let me say something AGAIN. Naron IS NOT the others. Therefore WHY do you assume that everything is like how the others made it? Maybe in this Quest HP and resilience are much better than in the other quests. We dont know and yet you say again and again that it is that way.

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The mechanics are the same. We know that.

Within those mechanics, HP and resilience are worse than end damage reducers outside of very specific scenarios.

Mostly makes sense.

Could it be rebalanced so that HP and resilience are more effective? Certainly. Probably.

However, end damage reducers are better, because of the way the system works. Especially with healing in the mix. Specifically, resilience is best against many small hits, while EDR acts more like a multiplier for your HP. We are a healer, so we only really care if we get one-hit, and EDR is much better at stopping that.

Resilience will generally not save you from damage twice your HP. EDR can. Also, there's an entire ability line(juggernaut) based around negating Resilience. and unless we have exponential HP, EDR will quickly become worth a lot of HP levels.

even 50% reduction is worth as much as doubling your health level, which gets expensive FAST. At level 10 of HP, a 50% increase is worth at least 1450 XP, and it goes up from there. This is also discounting abilities that scale by health.

Also, we have seen several spells with over 10k damage(end of the line, brave heart's, etc...). Moon gains 150 HP/level. So it would take her at least 67 levels to survive them with pure HP. (Resilience helps a bit, but not much) Sure those are on higher-end MGs, but I very much doubt they have enough XP for anything near that in defensive abilities. Especially considering that's the lower end of the damage spectrum.

So it's a reasonable assumption. Not a perfect one - resilience should be especially good at no-selling human soldiers, which makes it better here than normal CWMGQ. But not nearly enough to make it a good defense on it's own.

 

[Dragou]

The mechanics are the same. We know that.

Within those mechanics, HP and resilience are worse than end damage reducers outside of very specific scenarios.

Mostly makes sense.

Could it be rebalanced so that HP and resilience are more effective? Certainly. Probably.

However, end damage reducers are better, because of the way the system works. Especially with healing in the mix. Specifically, resilience is best against many small hits, while EDR acts more like a multiplier for your HP. We are a healer, so we only really care if we get one-hit, and EDR is much better at stopping that.

Resilience will generally not save you from damage twice your HP. EDR can. Also, there's an entire ability line(juggernaut) based around negating Resilience. and unless we have exponential HP, EDR will quickly become worth a lot of HP levels.

even 50% reduction is worth as much as doubling your health level, which gets expensive FAST. At level 10 of HP, a 50% increase is worth at least 1450 XP, and it goes up from there. This is also discounting abilities that scale by health.

Also, we have seen several spells with over 10k damage(end of the line, brave heart's, etc...). Moon gains 150 HP/level. So it would take her at least 67 levels to survive them with pure HP. (Resilience helps a bit, but not much) Sure those are on higher-end MGs, but I very much doubt they have enough XP for anything near that in defensive abilities. Especially considering that's the lower end of the damage spectrum.

So it's a reasonable assumption. Not a perfect one - resilience should be especially good at no-selling human soldiers, which makes it better here than normal CWMGQ. But not nearly enough to make it a good defense on it's own.

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And you forgot Veil of the lunar goddess.

 

[Kita Nakeshi]

when it comes to the "merging" personalities, I don't think they're merging at all. I think it could be compared to two people playing an mmo in the same room.

At first they were across from each other facing opposite ways but could turn around and see the other's screen and even and stretch an arm over to press a key or two on the keyboard if they tried but as the connection got stronger they stopped facing away from each other to being side by side where they could easily see the other's screen and could coordinate quickly but as the connection got even stronger they started playing the game by looking at both screens at the same time like it was normal and both knew the other's play style by heart so that most talking became irrelevant.

if anything I thing I think that they will become more distant from reality because to them reality is just a fake world compared to each other. besides why would they still argue about spiders if their individuality wasn't still there.

 

[DarkKing98]

...correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't CW's quest abilities reliant on both End Damage Reduction AND Damage Nullification if certain amounts are hit?

Also, Halving damage that is twice your HP is still a one shot without reselience. Just not as major a one shot as it would have been. Please stop and think for a moment when you bring up those kinds of scenarios. Makes you look incapable of thinking logically. Also, as you should clearly see, the closest to damage nullifier we have is All is Equal, which is quite situational. And even then not a complete damage nullification. Just a multiplier nullification.

 

[Mellithae]

And you forgot Veil of the lunar goddess.

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Huh? Veil makes HP and Res be tied to the same ability and "improves modifiers", which I assume is increasing how much of each they get per level. It probably does other stuff, too.

This doesn't really change any of my points. It weakens my specific damage notes one, sure. But even if it doubles her HP/level, it still requires level 33 to equal 10k. and my main examples are ~15k+ and ~20k (I think, I can't find where it was mentioned ATM...), respectively. They get higher than that. (looks at abyss knight.)

It'll certainly help. I just don't think it can make a good enough defense on it's own.

...correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't CW's quest abilities reliant on both End Damage Reduction AND Damage Nullification if certain amounts are hit?

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True enough. I'm not saying to ignore res or that it's useless, just that it's a reasonable assumption that it isn't going to save us from most things that can actually kill us.

Regarding the rest... note that 50% reduction is a specific scenario, and not the same one as the double your HP in damage scenario. Also, of course we don't have a "damage nullifier"(I can't think what the proper term is, so this will do.), why is that relevant? (Actually, radiance qualifies as one, but that's on Sun and applies to only one attack, so...)

 

[justinkal]

...correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't CW's quest abilities reliant on both End Damage Reduction AND Damage Nullification if certain amounts are hit?

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Depends on the character. The protagonist has both "you can't hurt me at all unless your damage is higher than 99% of my current Health" and "reduced End Damage by 99%".

Other characters only have one or the other.

And then you've got Red Rose. She's outright immune to taking damage from anything defined as a "mook", negates personal abilities of enemy magical girls unless those abilities are really high level, and whenever End Damage is higher than 20% of her max Health, that damage gets repeatedly reduced by 99% until its less than 20% of her max health.

 

[ConfusedPotato]

[x] Plan Fight Metaphors With Metaphors
-[x] The path this game has been taking is wrong. If the chains of fate say that you're only options are to be a monster, you'll just break those chains. You don't want to hurt anyone, but you refuse to let anyone hurt those you love.
--[x] Sun: Cast Scorching Sunlight at the chained ceiling. Shatter the chains and bring light to this world of darkness.
--[x] Moon: Stay close to Sun, don't get separated. If anyone gets hurt, cast Soothing Moonlight on everyone.
--[x] If the Queen tries to attack, use your quick reflexes and the skills you've learned from training in order to block and dodge. Use your mental connection to time things so that Sun can knock the Queen away when she's being blocked by Moon.

 

[Faraway-R]

Actually, at the moment, that shop item is a massive waste of EXP. Sun's weapon does next to no damage, so having a higher MM on it is worthless.

The only way that shop item will become useful is if her weapon gains the Spell Boost ability, which will make the damage and MM of her weapon get added to all of her spells.

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You are aware that a high roll will add massive amounts of both bonus damage and RESELIENCE to it depending on the dice right? And that with the help of Modifier Save we only need one high roll.

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Quoted for Truth.

If you check Goddess Grey, her damage is 1000, her Magic Modifier is 9999, her Weapon is Level 3 (meaning it governs only MM), and you can see how impressive her rolls are in increasing her damage in the update where her combat ability is showcased against James. She didn't score less than 4000 damage per hit, and if not for his counter ability it would have been an even shorter encounter.

EDIT: The vote tally option shows me either the tie or a one-vote difference depending if one plan with an additional line counts for the plans with the same name and without added line. No plan has yet to reach vote count of 4.

 

[ShadowAngelBeta]

Quoted for Truth.

If you check Goddess Grey, her damage is 1000, her Magic Modifier is 9999, her Weapon is Level 3 (meaning it governs only MM), and you can see how impressive her rolls are in increasing her damage in the update where her combat ability is showcased against James. She didn't score less than 4000 damage per hit, and if not for his counter ability it would have been an even shorter encounter.

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... Seriously?

*Shakes head* That means jack and shit. Welcome to RNG.

 

[DarkKing98]

...Beta. Honest question here, you DO know regardless that MM will keep increasing every time we level the staff right? So why not double what we got? Because surprise surprise, the higher the number, the better the chance to deal actual damage with the staff.

Of course, if we want staff damage we should also go for Incandescent Weapon, but we are talking about MM here.

 

[ShadowAngelBeta]

...Beta. Honest question here, you DO know regardless that MM will keep increasing every time we level the staff right? So why not double what we got? Because surprise surprise, the higher the number, the better the chance to deal actual damage with the staff.

Of course, if we want staff damage we should also go for Incandescent Weapon, but we are talking about MM here.

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... Because if we're whacking stuff with our staff we're already fucked.

Spell Boost or it's not worth shit to us. Just was right, XPs still better spent getting it to Level 10 for the milestone Ability after that... *Shrug* Probably yeah. Again, unreliable damage though, so Double-Cast might be worth more. Multi-Cast would probably catch up fairly soon as well since that can be upgraded like a regular Ability I'm pretty sure? I remember reading something like that I think.

... 350 XP is expensive though. :/ Almost weirdly expensive even. Until we start getting more spells anyway.

 

[Faraway-R]

... Seriously?

*Shakes head* That means jack and shit. Welcome to RNG.

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It means quite a lot, do study statistical distributions.
1) While a single roll is a linear function, a large number of rolls will result in a normal distribution (bell curve).
2) One standard deviation (sigma) of normal distribution covers 68% of attacks, that will deal damage close to the mean value (half MM).

 

[DarkKing98]

Spell Boost or it's not worth shit to us

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DUMBASS HYPOCRISY THY NAME IS SHADOWANGELBETA!

 

[justinkal]

It means quite a lot, do study statistical distributions.
1) While a single roll is a linear function, a large number of rolls will result in a normal distribution (bell curve).
2) One standard deviation (sigma) of normal distribution covers 68% of attacks, that will deal damage close to the mean value (half MM).

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The issue is that we know we have Omni-Caster on the way, and that means that we're casting more than one spell per turn. That means that offensive properties of our weapon are irrelevant unless they contribute to our spellcasting.

If Omni-Caster wasn't visible in the shop, then this would be a very different issue.

 

[DarkKing98]

The issue is that we know we have Omni-Caster on the way, and that means that we're casting more than one spell per turn. That means that offensive properties of our weapon are irrelevant unless they contribute to our spellcasting.

If Omni-Caster wasn't visible in the shop, then this would be a very different issue.

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Yes. Let's aim for the items we have absolutely no idea how to meet the prerequisits of. Excellent idea. Let's just ignore every item in the shop until that happens and we get Omni-Caster, because clearly that is a genius plan.

Oh, and if you were to much of a dumbass to tell, I am being COMPLETELY SARCASTIC.

 

[MilitaryAaa]

Guys? Can we cool down?

I think we should just wait for Naron to clear a few things up, like if he's following Crystalwalker exactly or the concern Eva and Rico might cease to exist. I know he won't tell us everything but as is this isn't productive.

 

[Naron]

And then you've got Red Rose. She's outright immune to taking damage from anything defined as a "mook", negates personal abilities of enemy magical girls unless those abilities are really high level, and whenever End Damage is higher than 20% of her max Health, that damage gets repeatedly reduced by 99% until its less than 20% of her max health.

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Red Rose was specifically made to kill Magical Girls, though.

DUMBASS HYPOCRISY THY NAME IS SHADOWANGELBETA!

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Hey, keep it down; I do not particularly mind if a discussion gets heated, but insulting someone else is not an option.


Anyway... I am still pondering if I should give you any details (and if yes, then which).
Although, could someone clarify what they mean with me "following Crystalwatcher"? If you mean to ask whether your protagonists are Nepgear 2.0, then no. They are not.

EDIT: The vote tally option shows me either the tie or a one-vote difference depending if one plan with an additional line counts for the plans with the same name and without added line. No plan has yet to reach vote count of 4.

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I count the the one with different lines together.

Adhoc vote count started by Naron on Dec 2, 2017 at 7:56 AM, finished with 1975 posts and 9 votes.

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  3 people have voted

  [X] Plan Something Fishy
  -[X] First things first, fly up and prepare to evade.
  -[X] Ask the Queen of Darkness if she intends to attack us now, and whether it won't be a violation of rules. Can't we all get along?
  -[X] If she persists and tries to attack, Rico tries to burn through the chained ceiling, while Eva casts Soothing Moonlight on everything (target-by-level - SO useful) to see if anything happens.
  -[X] If nothing useful happens, go to the default response of burning the queen with fire. Reserve the boost for defense just in case. Eva should see about keeping us all healed in the meantime.
  -[X] Most importantly: Don't let Queen of Darkness separate you.

  • Faraway-R
  • Mellithae
  • Kita Nakeshi

  3 people have voted

  [x] Plan Fight Metaphors With Metaphors
  -[x] The path this game has been taking is wrong. If the chains of fate say that you're only options are to be a monster, you'll just break those chains. You don't want to hurt anyone, but you refuse to let anyone hurt those you love.
  --[x] Sun: Cast Scorching Sunlight at the chained ceiling. Shatter the chains and bring light to this world of darkness.
  --[x] Moon: Stay close to Sun, don't get separated. If anyone gets hurt, cast Soothing Moonlight on everyone.
  --[x] If the Queen tries to attack, use your quick reflexes and the skills you've learned from training in order to block and dodge. Use your mental connection to time things so that Sun can knock the Queen away when she's being blocked by Moon.

  • justinkal
  • ConfusedPotato
  • wingstrike96

  2 people have voted

  [X] Plan Let There Be Light
  -[X] Stick close together.
  -[X] If she is close, do a combined melee attack to knock her back.
  -[X] If there is space, use Scorching Sunlight, then rush her in melee.

  • veekie
  • kinigget

  1 people have voted

  [X] Plan Let There Be Light
  -[X] Stick close together.
  -[X] If she is close, do a combined melee attack to knock her back.
  -[X] If there is space, use Scorching Sunlight, then rush her in melee.
  -[X] Try to take her down without killing her

  • DarkKing98

Adhoc vote count started by Naron on Dec 3, 2017 at 2:21 AM, finished with 1979 posts and 9 votes.

• ---

  3 people have voted

  [X] Plan Something Fishy
  -[X] First things first, fly up and prepare to evade.
  -[X] Ask the Queen of Darkness if she intends to attack us now, and whether it won't be a violation of rules. Can't we all get along?
  -[X] If she persists and tries to attack, Rico tries to burn through the chained ceiling, while Eva casts Soothing Moonlight on everything (target-by-level - SO useful) to see if anything happens.
  -[X] If nothing useful happens, go to the default response of burning the queen with fire. Reserve the boost for defense just in case. Eva should see about keeping us all healed in the meantime.
  -[X] Most importantly: Don't let Queen of Darkness separate you.

  • Faraway-R
  • Mellithae
  • Kita Nakeshi

  3 people have voted

  [x] Plan Fight Metaphors With Metaphors
  -[x] The path this game has been taking is wrong. If the chains of fate say that you're only options are to be a monster, you'll just break those chains. You don't want to hurt anyone, but you refuse to let anyone hurt those you love.
  --[x] Sun: Cast Scorching Sunlight at the chained ceiling. Shatter the chains and bring light to this world of darkness.
  --[x] Moon: Stay close to Sun, don't get separated. If anyone gets hurt, cast Soothing Moonlight on everyone.
  --[x] If the Queen tries to attack, use your quick reflexes and the skills you've learned from training in order to block and dodge. Use your mental connection to time things so that Sun can knock the Queen away when she's being blocked by Moon.

  • justinkal
  • ConfusedPotato
  • wingstrike96

  2 people have voted

  [X] Plan Let There Be Light
  -[X] Stick close together.
  -[X] If she is close, do a combined melee attack to knock her back.
  -[X] If there is space, use Scorching Sunlight, then rush her in melee.

  • veekie
  • kinigget

  1 people have voted

  [X] Plan Let There Be Light
  -[X] Stick close together.
  -[X] If she is close, do a combined melee attack to knock her back.
  -[X] If there is space, use Scorching Sunlight, then rush her in melee.
  -[X] Try to take her down without killing her

  • DarkKing98

 

[Dragou]

It'll certainly help. I just don't think it can make a good enough defense on it's own.

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Never said that alone would be enough, but right no we dont have a defense to begin with.
Eva has a multiplier-nullificator if it is 5 or less. Rico can reduce 1 hit by 50%.
But with their far too low HP and Resiliance they will be killed 1-hit or within the first round anyway. Mellithae say how do you expect to survive that way?

Edit: I am silent again, I just wrote a bit because of some new faces. Now I will most likely back with the words: "Called it". Therefore until then and good luck to try not to die.

 

[veekie]

when it comes to the "merging" personalities, I don't think they're merging at all. I think it could be compared to two people playing an mmo in the same room.

At first they were across from each other facing opposite ways but could turn around and see the other's screen and even and stretch an arm over to press a key or two on the keyboard if they tried but as the connection got stronger they stopped facing away from each other to being side by side where they could easily see the other's screen and could coordinate quickly but as the connection got even stronger they started playing the game by looking at both screens at the same time like it was normal and both knew the other's play style by heart so that most talking became irrelevant.

if anything I thing I think that they will become more distant from reality because to them reality is just a fake world compared to each other. besides why would they still argue about spiders if their individuality wasn't still there.

Click to shrink...

Also note their extrovert/introvert pairings, which remained the same, the active/passive pairings, likewise, even their distractability and responsibility.

It's almost like they are moving to BALANCE each other rather than merge.
This is Libra, not Gemini.
Two sides of one scale, not two beings as one.

 

[Dragou]

Also note their extrovert/introvert pairings, which remained the same, the active/passive pairings, likewise, even their distractability and responsibility.

It's almost like they are moving to BALANCE each other rather than merge.
This is Libra, not Gemini.
Two sides of one scale, not two beings as one.

Click to shrink...

Ok another thing where i cant resist: But both scales are part of one libra. Which could mean the Scales are the bodies but both og them together are the libra, one beeing/thing with two things which can be touched/influenced. And if 1 scale is destroyed the whole libra is broken.