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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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@Andres110

Here's the quotes

Andres110 said:
1. Luther and a bunch of other Calibanese adults were turned into Space Marines. They weren't children so they couldn't become fully augmented and become full Space Marines, but they did take in some augments and in doing so became a mid-point between Astartes and humans. There was nothing implied that this was anything "special", just simply not done. Could we turn some of our heroes into these "Demi-Astartes" so that they can die less and be better?
2. Can female "Demi-Astartes" be a thing?
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Durin said:
1. no, how to do this has been long forgotten
2. no
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Reask @Durin with the video, see if he changes his mind.

AlsoSprachOdin said:
"Why?" to both sentences.
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For the first: Because we've got a waagh coming our way which is going to slam into our colonies and we know for a fact that they're going to come to our nice heavily fortified worlds, why would we try to attack them when we can ambush them on arrival.
2. Is wrong allow me to rephrase: We could probably win, but not without excessive casualties that we do not want to endure at the moment. Casualties that are very likely to go down if we go on the defensive and let them break themselves on our walls and turn their ambush against them. It also takes fewer numbers to defend a world with strong defences, it takes many more to go on an offensive.

AlsoSprachOdin said:
Are our defences worth more firepower than the amount of fleet we need to defend Gehenna from Bear? We don't know.
And all of this is still, again, missing the issue at hand: Should we divine Bear or Valinor?
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It doesn't matter.

Regardless of the one we pick we're still not going to have a complete picture until next turn.
 
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Azgrin said:
Can you cite that these work like this with multiple seers or disposable ones needed?
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every instance of elder diverting orks I've come across had a farseer right there within stabbing range if things went wrong. I stopped really following 40k aside from this quest years ago, so I don't remember exact instances.

It's possible we could divert, but saying "the elder can do it" as a justification for it is a poor argument because they still have all sorts of stuff we don't.
 
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Andres110 said:
When it was asked, I and others - Durin as well I think - thought it involved actual gene-seed and stuff. In actuality, it seems that it was rather mundane stuff like surgery, drugs, and bionics. We are capable of conducting surgery, producing drugs, and implanting people with bionics.
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I would support this if it's a option later when were more in the Black. I feel for Avernus continued research into Bionic super Solders for the Imperial Guard would be something promising to improve.
 
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AlsoSprachOdin said:
Nobody is suggesting not fighting Valinor, least of all me. I just want to do it before anyone else attacks us, so we can use our entire strength against them. And the Blood Dragons' strength.
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Fighting Valinor before anyone attacks us isn't in the cards. The Crusade Fleet should be there by now, which means they've got their defenses and the extra ships and men the fleet affords them. They'll have a major defensive advantage if we try to take the fight to them, and we don't want to deal with that.

AlsoSprachOdin said:
And seriously: You WANT a two-front war with Bear and Valinor at the same time?
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Yes. That's the only way that Valinor's Crusade Fleet is likely going to attack us. They won't attack until we're busy on a second front:

Durin said:
High Grandmaster Ridcully spent a year examining the local Chaos polities in order to detemrine both what they are capable of and what they are doing. To begin with he found that Valinor is expecting a major crusade fleet within the next decade, which they intend to keep secret until they have an opportunity to use it to kill Saint Lin. They are certain that they will gain much favour from the Abomination if they kill him and are willing to die to the last man in this effort. That means that while they are currently fortifying they will be willing to strip their worlds of defences in order to get enough men to kill Saint Lin, and will likely wait until the Imperial Trust is tied down on another front before they begin.
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Valinor isn't likely to attack unless they know we're busy elsewhere. And even when they do, we're better off fighting them with a defensive advantage on our end. It's also better if the attacking Waaagh is smaller, so the Waaagh hitting the Gehenna sub-sector first is better in that regard since it means we could divert more forces away from that to deal with Valinor's attack.
 
random_npc said:
every instance of elder diverting orks I've come across had a farseer right there within stabbing range if things went wrong. I stopped really following 40k aside from this quest years ago, so I don't remember exact instances.
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That's because all farseers and diviners are range locked.

Ridcully isn't thanks to his paragon trait, so he can do it from Avernus.
 
Something to consider is no matter when the Waagh attacks it is going to hit our colonies first. Since the colonies are the closest to the Waagh. Valinor does not have that problem. They will be coming to Avernus.
 
@Durin

1. One of the main problems we have with our air force (and to a lesser extent the rest of our armed forces) is fatigue. Are there bionics to reduce fatigue that we can add in?
 
Doomed Wombat said:
That's because all farseers and diviners are range locked.

Ridcully isn't thanks to his paragon trait, so he can do it from Avernus.
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good to know, though that does raise the question if it would be a good idea or not. We don't have any non allied powers in the region who could stand a chance, so anyone else would ultimately make it stronger.

That is of course assuming it would be practical, the Eldar where masters of subterfuge and could hit and fade from random points thanks to the webways. Just because we know the orks will turn if hit in just the right way doesn't mean we can hit them in just the right way.
 
Doomed Wombat said:
Why would we try to attack them when we can ambush them on arrival?
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Because it would split our forces. Having more forces is an exponential strength, which is why it's so important not to split our forces.
Doomed Wombat said:
Casualties that are very likely to go down if we go on the defensive and let them break themselves on our walls and turn their ambush against them.
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Enjou said:
They'll have a major defensive advantage if we try to take the fight to them, and we don't want to deal with that.
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I understand that waiting for Valinor gives us the defensive advantage, but is it worth giving up our full fleet?
And I'll repeat - most of our orbital defences are defending Deiphobe, not Avernus.
And if we ask the Blood Dragons help us on the defensive, Valinor will almost certainly know that we expect them. But on the attack, we and the Blood Dragons can present overwhelming numbers and firepower against Valinor, maybe even take them by surprise.
 
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AlsoSprachOdin said:
I understand that waiting for Valinor gives us the defensive advantage, but is it worth giving up our full fleet.
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Yes. The Abomination Crusade Fleet will likely attack Avernus to kill Saint Lin, meaning we will have Avernus on our side killing Chaos for us. Not only that, the Chaos Fleet will have to come in range of our planetary defence grid to properly get at Saint Lin. That negates much of their threat.
 
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HanEmpire said:
The Abomination Crusade Fleet will likely attack Avernus to kill Saint Lin,
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I know this. Everyone knows this.
HanEmpire said:
meaning we will have Avernus on our side killing Chaos for us.
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I would rather have the forces of the rest of the Trust. Better against orbital bombardment, and better at keeping our fleet losses at a minimum.

And ferchrissakes, can we focus on the issue at hand: Whether to Divine on Waaagh Bear or Valinor?
 
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AlsoSprachOdin said:
I understand that waiting for Valinor gives us the defensive advantage, but is it worth giving up our full fleet.
And if we ask the Blood Dragons help us on the defensive, Valinor will almost certainly know that we expect them. But on the attack, we and the Blood Dragons can present overwhelming numbers and firepower against Valinor, maybe even take them by surprise.
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I think you're severely underestimating the defenses present at Valinor, and the damage that our fleets and armies would incur if we tried to attack while they have the crusade fleet there to bolster them. I do not for one instant believe that we can currently afford trying to assault Valinor in the current situation, because it'll just end up leaving us vulnerable to some other threat. It is far better for us to let them expend their forces trying to crack Avernus, which will likely be in vain, and then attack them after the Waaagh that's attacking us is dealt with - let them send their forces into the grinder, rather than us send our forces into one.
 
notanautomaton said:
I can see two solutions to keeping Saint Lin safe. We can either keep him on Avernus, since we're the best at surviving an abomanation invasion. Or we can put him with the anti-ork force, so that we don't have to split our forces and can make the two enemies fight each other.
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Thinming on this further, I think we should leave Lin on Avernus. Our strategy for the Crusade fleet should be to turn it into a slog and let the wildlife attrition them.
 
AlsoSprachOdin said:
Because it would split our forces.
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Not too much.

We've still got our System Defence fleet which is very sizeable and can be easily expanded, and the Fleets in general are so massive that a large chunk can probably be diverted to us without risk and of course our own defences are good enough that we can compare em to mars and terra without being too arrogant.

Then you're forgetting the One.

Big.

Advantage.

They're chaos on Averus.

We've already secured the assistance of the Trolls and Sirens, never mind everything else.


AlsoSprachOdin said:
And if we ask the Blood Dragons help us on the defensive, Valinor will almost certainly know that we expect them. But on the attack, we and the Blood Dragons can present overwhelming numbers and firepower against Valinor, maybe even take them by surprise.
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Mate they have diviners of their own (not as good as Ridcully to be sure though they may have someone better in the crusade fleet), but they're not going to miss a massive military build up in both the Blood Dragons and our territory (which they do infiltrate successfully on occasion) and not assume oh shit.

AlsoSprachOdin said:
I would rather have the forces of the rest of the Trust. Better against orbital bombardment, and better at keeping our fleet losses at a minimum.
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ehhh you do remember that the level of bombardment needed to harm Dis's shields before the last upgrade was enough to wreak the entire Spine?

I say let them bombard us.

They probably have/need a power to get through our shields at this point.
 
AlsoSprachOdin said:
I would rather have the forces of the rest of the Trust. Better against orbital bombardment, and better at keeping our fleet losses at a minimum.
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Luring the Chaos fleet to Avernus is better for both of that. Our cities' Void Shields are now so strong that the amount of firepower needed to breach them will cause significant damage to the planet's crust outside the shield umbrella, meaning Avernus will lash out long before our cities are threatened. The Navy will be fighting defensively from within Deiphobe's shell, so their losses will be smaller too.
 
Doomed Wombat said:
ehhh you do remember that the level of bombardment needed to harm Dis's shields before the last upgrade was enough to wreak the entire Spine?

I say let them bombard us.

They probably have/need a power to get through our shields at this point.
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Hell, if they even plan to use that level of bombardment the Old Ones' defenses will activate.


Also, another thing to remember is that we can't send our full fleets to attack anyone. We have to have a good chunk of our fleets at home to defend against attacks that might come while we're on the offensive. Same goes for the Blood Dragons.
 
Enjou said:
Hell, if they even plan to use that level of bombardment the Old Ones' defenses will activate.
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That's the point.

Let them, it saves us the effort.

Enjou said:
Also, another thing to remember is that we can't send our full fleets to attack anyone. We have to have a good chunk of our fleets at home to defend against attacks that might come while we're on the offensive. Same goes for the Blood Dragons.
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And the non warp fleet never forget them.
 
Enjou said:
I think you're severely underestimating the defenses present at Valinor
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Tell me about them. I heard something about them getting stripped.
Enjou said:
It is far better for us to let them expend their forces trying to crack Avernus, which will likely be in vain,
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If the crusade fleet is big enough, it can certainly do a horrible number on our divided fleet, too. We have little defence advantage in the void, because most of our orbital defences are defending Deiphobe, not Avernus. So on the defensive, we won't have to deal with Valinor's Defences, but we'll also have less firepower ourselves.
Doomed Wombat said:
We've still got our System Defence fleet which is very sizeable and can be easily expanded
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In the next few turns? Not much.
Doomed Wombat said:
and of course our own defences are good enough that we can compare em to mars and terra without being too arrogant.
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Not in the void. Not anywhere but around Deiphobe.
Enjou said:
Also, another thing to remember is that we can't send our full fleets to attack anyone. We have to have a good chunk of our fleets at home to defend against attacks that might come while we're on the offensive. Same goes for the Blood Dragons.
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That's what the Order of Omens is for.

And can we pretty please focus on the issue at hand: Whether to Divine on Waaagh Bear or Valinor?
 
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AlsoSprachOdin said:
If the crusade fleet is big enough, it can certainly do a horrible number on our divided fleet, too. We have little defence advantage in the void, because most of our orbital defences are defending Deiphobe, not Avernus. So on the defensive, we won't have to deal with Valinor's Defences, but we'll also have less firepower ourselves.
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Let them take the orbit. Who cares? They can't breach our cities so their only hope is sieging us out. That means years of blockade with inconclusive actions, full of stinging raids by our fleet (safe within Deiphobe defences), and a countdown until the Trust Navy and Vanir Navy come over to kick them out. Valinor won't be able to do much damage to Avernus.
 
Shard said:
Do we even have that tech?
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Data core vehicles section.


AlsoSprachOdin said:
In the next few turns? Not much.
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Durin said:
Construct: Defence Monitors- One of the best ways to quickly prepare your navy for an invasion is to build as many defence monitors as you can. Admiral Parnell tells you that he can build a full hundred and forty-two Defence Monitors at a time, which would allow him to make hundreds before even the earliest estimation of Garkill's arrival.

Time: 2 years.

Cost: 449,900,000 Thrones, 89,970,000 Material, 2,249,000 Promethium, 169,000 Advanced Material, 135 Exotic Material.
Upkeep per year: 6,747,840 Thrones, 2,249,280 Material, 1,124,640 Promethium, 1,690 Advanced Material, 3 Exotic Material.
Reward: build 142 Defence Monitors
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In turn 75 we could build 142 moniters in 2 years.

Between our larger yards, Juv-nat and other things that number is probably significantly higher now.

AlsoSprachOdin said:
Not in the void. Not anywhere but around Deiphobe.
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??? I'm talking about our ground defences, not our orbitals.

HanEmpire said:
Valinor won't be able to do much damage to Avernus.
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Don't get over confident.

Worst case scenario they summon a greater demon.
 
we still might want to divine them to be sure. chaos loves it's surprises after all, and something like an abomination planet killer analog would be on the far end of what they could pull for this.
 
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