- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
-
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
HanEmpire
Delicious
[X] Plan Preparing for the Green Tide
1) Can this impact be lessened with omakes?
2) Shame. What's the expected Unrest from that reveal?
- Location
- United States of America, Michigan
I don't see the big deal about Psyjammers and the need to reverse-engineer them, they are used to pacify individual psykers and not in battle conditions right?
- Location
- To the left. No, not there, the other left.
Enjou is hoping they will give Tranth a basis to create more combat-viable anti-psyker tech.
- Location
- United States of America, Michigan
I feel that is unlikely and Tranth's actions can be used for more important things.
Also what's everyone's thoughts on fixing, upgrading, and revers-engineering our titans now, damm the unrest, that we now that Mork & Gork are going active soon?
- Location
- Brazil, Minas gerais
Sir, just cheeking can we put neo-astropaths? good communication in war save lives (and their librarian can be used for other stuff), maybe even focus weapons for their people (the lvl of our own is really hight).
- Location
- Australia
Enjou's plan, but without having anything to do with heretics. I've included refusal and a reason for that refusal. Any Chaos force that manages to survive the Orks will have to be quite powerful indeed. Dealing with Chaos will make non-heretics - alien and human alike - not want to work with us as much, which is bad because working together with them results in an easier war against the Orks.
[X] Plan Suffer Not the Heretic
Military
- Rotbart agrees with trying to take the remaining nearby Ork worlds if possible. Rotbart suggests the next priority after securing the remaining worlds of the Danaan would be to target Kazag's Domain, as his fleet is larger and his domain is closer, making him more mobile as a threat. If possible, coordinate with the Dragon's Nest.
- Rotbart states that damaging Tugozak's domain would likely only be viable via the use of Exterminatus weapons and stealth ships, but the Trust's stock of Exterminatus grade weaponry is limited. For this plan to be viable, the Inquisition will need to agree to turn over enough of their stock for Archmagos Tranth to attempt to reverse engineer them.
- Rotbart believes wiping out the minor Ork worlds is of value, but is of lower priority and should only be done if the resources can be spared. Targets should be chosen in such a way to maximize distance between minor Ork worlds, so as to prevent any of them from forming into a more coherent force under a single Warlord's banner.
- Rotbart agrees with moving the military focus to fortification once there's a decade left.
- Rotbart notes the following:
-- Avernus recently made a trade with the Sirens of Azure Bay to provide them with a number of Avernite animals in exchange for one of their runes. The rune in question supposedly banishes Warp entities in the Materium back to the Warp. The hope was that it would provide a reliable way to banish Chaos daemons, but if the Orks end up having their own daemons then it could possibly be used against them as well. It is noteworthy that during the Daemonic Incursion that the Sirens' city did not come under attack at all, which if this rune is used in their warding schemes and works as advertised explains why that is. Of course, we are not about to trust xeno psychic knowledge without thoroughly testing it first, and want to have Saint Lin check for Chaos corruption on top of having the Astra Telepathica take the necessary time to study it.
-- Other avenues of psychic research are also available. It may be possible to find psychic frequences that are disruptive to Gork and Mork, and Rotbart also suggests that the AdMech allow Tranth to study the Psy-Jammers that were purchased from Atlas.
-Ask that Surt release the designs for Fire Giant armour.
Diplomacy
- Rotbart agrees with notifying the Dragon's Nest and any human polities we can find.
-- He suggests a generous technology trade with the Dragon's Nest. He suggests trading them the technology to build Helheim Pattern Defence Cruisers and equivalently upgraded Imperial era ships and defenses, all of the Imperial Era economic STCs (and possibly some of the DAoT ones), and some ground technologies such as Royal Basilisks (the local Orks have partially reverse engineered these anyways, and good artillery is essential against Orks), as well as some finished examples of other technologies such as Fellblades and Advanced Power Armor. In exchange the Trust would want the designs for the two levels of Forges that the AdMech doesn't currently possess, STCs for Astartes equipment the Trust doesn't have but the Blood Dragons do, having Technomancy taught to members of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, and anything else of value.
--- Also suggest that Navigator gene trading should be considered to boost the breeding rates in both polities.
-- He suggests possibly building some Defence Cruisers, Defence Monitors, and Imperial era ships for Karnas to better fortify them.
-- He suggests possibly building a large number of Imperial era Defence Monitors for some of the minor non-Chaos human polities in the area, as this would be a fast and relatively cheap way to boost their defences. Some excess manufacturing could also go towards building enough Imperial era ground equipment and vehicles to better equip their PDF forces.
- Rotbart agrees with notifying Xenos, including the local Necrons and the Eldar. He also suggests that if they can be contacted and if they'd be willing to have the Eldar pass on the message on to Ultramar (if they'd be willing to take an actual messenger on our behalf that would be ideal), any other significant non-Chaos human polities, and possibly even the Tau or other xeno empires of note, so that they may prepare as well. By notifying such a broad group it should hopefully decrease the chances of individual Warlords reaching the level of the Beast, as more Ork Waaaghs will be defeated by major local powers.
- Rotbart adamantly refuses against the notion of notifying the nearby Chaos polities. He states that while giving the corrupted traitors the ability to take more greenskin enemies down with them may be immediately helpful, the potential ramifications of a unified, fortified Chaos force that survives the Green Tide are too serious to risk. Dealing with Chaos forces in anything resembling a positive manner would also harm diplomatic actions with every human or xenos polity that hasn't been corrupted, possibly resulting in a net decrease in combined total defensive cohesion against the Orks. This is before even getting into the many moral and morale reasons against the notion of helping Chaos, but to go over them is unneeded.
--Their "preparation" for the Green Tide will likely take the form of raids against other planets instead of just hunkering down and fortifying as other polities would. This will decrease the net defensive ability of the local region and soften up targets for Ork takeover.
Industrial
- Rotbart agrees with increasing the mandated level of defences on Imperial Trust worlds, but does not have a suggested level.
- Rotbart agrees with requiring all worlds to have a full Avernite style militia. This will raise the overall skill level of all Trust forces, which are already quite high, and make it much more difficult for Orks or any invaders to take one of the Trust's worlds. While this will put a strain on the citizens and can decrease morale, the overall morale in the Trust is excellent and he believes the citizens of the Trust will understand the necessity.
[X] Plan Suffer Not the Heretic
Military
- Rotbart agrees with trying to take the remaining nearby Ork worlds if possible. Rotbart suggests the next priority after securing the remaining worlds of the Danaan would be to target Kazag's Domain, as his fleet is larger and his domain is closer, making him more mobile as a threat. If possible, coordinate with the Dragon's Nest.
- Rotbart states that damaging Tugozak's domain would likely only be viable via the use of Exterminatus weapons and stealth ships, but the Trust's stock of Exterminatus grade weaponry is limited. For this plan to be viable, the Inquisition will need to agree to turn over enough of their stock for Archmagos Tranth to attempt to reverse engineer them.
- Rotbart believes wiping out the minor Ork worlds is of value, but is of lower priority and should only be done if the resources can be spared. Targets should be chosen in such a way to maximize distance between minor Ork worlds, so as to prevent any of them from forming into a more coherent force under a single Warlord's banner.
- Rotbart agrees with moving the military focus to fortification once there's a decade left.
- Rotbart notes the following:
-- Avernus recently made a trade with the Sirens of Azure Bay to provide them with a number of Avernite animals in exchange for one of their runes. The rune in question supposedly banishes Warp entities in the Materium back to the Warp. The hope was that it would provide a reliable way to banish Chaos daemons, but if the Orks end up having their own daemons then it could possibly be used against them as well. It is noteworthy that during the Daemonic Incursion that the Sirens' city did not come under attack at all, which if this rune is used in their warding schemes and works as advertised explains why that is. Of course, we are not about to trust xeno psychic knowledge without thoroughly testing it first, and want to have Saint Lin check for Chaos corruption on top of having the Astra Telepathica take the necessary time to study it.
-- Other avenues of psychic research are also available. It may be possible to find psychic frequences that are disruptive to Gork and Mork, and Rotbart also suggests that the AdMech allow Tranth to study the Psy-Jammers that were purchased from Atlas.
-Ask that Surt release the designs for Fire Giant armour.
Diplomacy
- Rotbart agrees with notifying the Dragon's Nest and any human polities we can find.
-- He suggests a generous technology trade with the Dragon's Nest. He suggests trading them the technology to build Helheim Pattern Defence Cruisers and equivalently upgraded Imperial era ships and defenses, all of the Imperial Era economic STCs (and possibly some of the DAoT ones), and some ground technologies such as Royal Basilisks (the local Orks have partially reverse engineered these anyways, and good artillery is essential against Orks), as well as some finished examples of other technologies such as Fellblades and Advanced Power Armor. In exchange the Trust would want the designs for the two levels of Forges that the AdMech doesn't currently possess, STCs for Astartes equipment the Trust doesn't have but the Blood Dragons do, having Technomancy taught to members of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, and anything else of value.
--- Also suggest that Navigator gene trading should be considered to boost the breeding rates in both polities.
-- He suggests possibly building some Defence Cruisers, Defence Monitors, and Imperial era ships for Karnas to better fortify them.
-- He suggests possibly building a large number of Imperial era Defence Monitors for some of the minor non-Chaos human polities in the area, as this would be a fast and relatively cheap way to boost their defences. Some excess manufacturing could also go towards building enough Imperial era ground equipment and vehicles to better equip their PDF forces.
- Rotbart agrees with notifying Xenos, including the local Necrons and the Eldar. He also suggests that if they can be contacted and if they'd be willing to have the Eldar pass on the message on to Ultramar (if they'd be willing to take an actual messenger on our behalf that would be ideal), any other significant non-Chaos human polities, and possibly even the Tau or other xeno empires of note, so that they may prepare as well. By notifying such a broad group it should hopefully decrease the chances of individual Warlords reaching the level of the Beast, as more Ork Waaaghs will be defeated by major local powers.
- Rotbart adamantly refuses against the notion of notifying the nearby Chaos polities. He states that while giving the corrupted traitors the ability to take more greenskin enemies down with them may be immediately helpful, the potential ramifications of a unified, fortified Chaos force that survives the Green Tide are too serious to risk. Dealing with Chaos forces in anything resembling a positive manner would also harm diplomatic actions with every human or xenos polity that hasn't been corrupted, possibly resulting in a net decrease in combined total defensive cohesion against the Orks. This is before even getting into the many moral and morale reasons against the notion of helping Chaos, but to go over them is unneeded.
--Their "preparation" for the Green Tide will likely take the form of raids against other planets instead of just hunkering down and fortifying as other polities would. This will decrease the net defensive ability of the local region and soften up targets for Ork takeover.
Industrial
- Rotbart agrees with increasing the mandated level of defences on Imperial Trust worlds, but does not have a suggested level.
- Rotbart agrees with requiring all worlds to have a full Avernite style militia. This will raise the overall skill level of all Trust forces, which are already quite high, and make it much more difficult for Orks or any invaders to take one of the Trust's worlds. While this will put a strain on the citizens and can decrease morale, the overall morale in the Trust is excellent and he believes the citizens of the Trust will understand the necessity.
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- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
1. possibly, though not more then 1 so
2. 10-15
- Location
- United States of America, Michigan
[X] Plan Suffer Not the Heretic
Valkur
The True Valkyria, Valkur!
- Location
- Fólkvangr
NOOOOOO
NO DAOT TECH FOR ANYONE!
We litearlly just met Dragons Nest and the only thing they're going to get is as of right now is Imperial Era economy techs. Nothing more until we know these guys are legitimately okay. Not just the Chapter but it's leadership also.
NO DAOT TECH FOR ANYONE!
We litearlly just met Dragons Nest and the only thing they're going to get is as of right now is Imperial Era economy techs. Nothing more until we know these guys are legitimately okay. Not just the Chapter but it's leadership also.
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
Anyone going to add in something like the following now that we've got WoG on the matter?
-[ ] Request that the Ad Mech begin a priority examination of whether it is possible for some of the lesser and minor Advanced Materials' manufacturing methods could be shared such that adequately educated laymen could being adding to how much Advanced Material is produced throughout the Imperial Trust. After all, one of the greatest reasons more the more advanced technologies retrieved from the data core aren't able to be equipped on a more wide-spread level is due to their sheer AM costs.
-[ ] Request that the Ad Mech begin a priority examination of whether it is possible for some of the lesser and minor Advanced Materials' manufacturing methods could be shared such that adequately educated laymen could being adding to how much Advanced Material is produced throughout the Imperial Trust. After all, one of the greatest reasons more the more advanced technologies retrieved from the data core aren't able to be equipped on a more wide-spread level is due to their sheer AM costs.
- Location
- Australia
WoG is that it'll result in 2-4 Unrest. If we get 4 Unrest, that'll get doubled by Scott's Young trait, resulting in +8 Unrest, which will put as at 10 Unrest and trigger a civil war.
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- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
Okay, the issue of spending our remaining points of mechanicus unrest before they guarenteed civil war is that they should be spent in ways that have some return to strengthen the progressives position, if we want to avoid civil war we need a failure to point to that motivates the admech to change somthing. Similarly it should be noticed that the low state of unrest does not totally prevent civil war, it just makes it less likely and more probable to remain small.
I'll get around to posting a different plan in a few minutes, when I'm at my computer.
Edit
Nevermind, it fits.
I'll get around to posting a different plan in a few minutes, when I'm at my computer.
Edit
Nevermind, it fits.
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- Location
- The internet
[X] Plan Suffer Not the Heretic
- Location
- Brazil, Minas gerais
[X] Plan Preparing for the Green Tide
with the warn everyone, still think that we can trade more (at both sides)
with the warn everyone, still think that we can trade more (at both sides)
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
I was asking if a study can be made to determine if any of those could possibly be spread outside the Ad Mech. I was not asking for the action to be taken to actually give them out, because I agree that it's way too high an unrest rating...
Think of it as basically causing the Ad Mech to start having debates about which should be able to be released, and which shouldn't be. To try and determine a level that causes the least unrest amongst the conservatives and the progressives, if that course of action is ever taken.
Would this be a valid course of action @Durin or would it be something that caused unrest just in itself? Think of it as starting a theoretical study on what could be released, without actually planning on putting the decisions reached into effect.
And any Chaos polity that doesn't survive will have all of their worlds conquered by the Orks, which will then produce more Orks and Ork ships without end for whatever Warlord managed to conquer the place. Orks have almost always been a quantity over quality race, but when they get quality they are fucking scary. While we won't necessarily be dealing with a unified Beast Waaagh, there's a strong chance that the Orks will be much closer to the Beast level as a race. The simple fact of the matter is that the Orks can replenish their forces and fleets at a far, far faster rate than we can, which is why we couldn't leave the three Ork Domains right next to us alone - they would have eventually overwhelmed us even at their current level just through attrition. Once we get the super Orks that are coming, that kind of problem is only going to be worse since we won't have as much of a tech advantage. The Chaos polities on the other hand are mostly limited by human growth rates, which means that even if one of them is strong enough to survive this (which likely won't be without losses) that they won't be something akin to a von Neumann war engine.
And it's not "working with heretics" to just notify them. All it is is notifying them, and they can take whatever actions they want based on the information. We don't have to do anything beyond that, nor should we.
@Durin - what are the expressed opinions of the other people in the meeting regarding the possibility of notifying Chaos?
- Location
- The internet
@Durin
1. Is it resonable to attempt to use the crises as an opportunity to convince Paladis to go along with the naval reactor options?
2. And what would be the effect on Unrest if he supported them?
3. What would the navy's reaction to him opposing said suggestions be and how would it alter the political landscape?
1. Is it resonable to attempt to use the crises as an opportunity to convince Paladis to go along with the naval reactor options?
2. And what would be the effect on Unrest if he supported them?
3. What would the navy's reaction to him opposing said suggestions be and how would it alter the political landscape?
- Location
- Australia
"Working together with them" referred to non-corrupted xenos and humans.
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
treipidition, they can see why it is a good idea but it is HELPING CHAOS
1. yes
2. it would reduce
3. if he used the right arguments (involving untested technology and short times when effort could be better spent on proven technology) nothing
- Location
- United States of America, Michigan
I think we should use this crisis to push for upgrading and reverse-engineering the titans with lower unrest since we are going to want them if we have to fight beast gargants.
The opening line of your plan is "Enjou's plan, but without working with heretics."
1. Are the worries about political consequences with our potential allies likely to be valid if we do this?
2.
Would Ridcully be able to do this or not? I recognize that the answer would likely be vague, but it might be necessary to make an informed decision. Better yet, could it be done based on polity? Like, informing Turoq but not Demagoye and Valinor, as an example.