Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest

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Picio said:
Yes theoretically you can hire eldar in practice it is Eldar using you for there own reasons and I cannot remember single instant that in did not ended badly for the employer.
On the other hand I do remember worlds burning because some inquisitor hired eldar.
At best you interest may temporarily align and then you part on good terms.
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I mean I also remember worlds burning because an inquisitor read the wrong book, didn't read the right book, got a case of the sniffles, got cold feet... Call me crazy, but I think the inquisition existing not the Eldar are the issue here and when the game says you hire Eldar what it means is 'you hire Eldar'. If some rogue trader hires a random aspect warrior to be paid in money that's the deal, they aren't in secret contact with the Eldar hive mind that works to undermine the glorious human empire.

Prime 2.0 said:
He wasn't a hero when he started working with us. He was meant to just be a liason with W, the actual intended recuitment target.

Then he rolled a nat 100 and neablis retroactively made him a hero unit in his own right.
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No... that is not what happened.

From Turn 10
Neablis said:
Victan will be a spy, and start at level 1. His active action will be to give bonuses to diplomacy rolls with subterfuge components, and his passive will be to coordinate with allied forces or provide counterespionage defense as needed. He'll be slower to level than Anexa.
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Then we choose to hire him as a hero, one that would level slower than Anexa, but still a hero. Then

From Turn 11
Neablis said:
Mechanicus Education/Subversion/Promotion rolled natural 100 + 10 (Woman of Stone) + 3 (Victan) = 113.
Victan starts at level 3, and wow did he succeed on his first roll. Happy first crit of the game.
Victan levels twice, is now level 5!
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DragonParadox said:
I mean I also remember worlds burning because an inquisitor read the wrong book, didn't read the right book, got a case of the sniffles, got cold feet... Call me crazy, but I think the inquisition existing not the Eldar are the issue here and when the game says you hire Eldar what it means is 'you hire Eldar'. If some rogue trader hires a random aspect warrior to be paid in money that's the deal, they aren't in secret contact with the Eldar hive mind that works to undermine the glorious human empire.
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Some random aspect warrior is not farseer.
As far as I can remember farseers always betray the protagonists, granted sometimes because of arguably good reason, but i would not trust farseer.
What if our hired farseer one day sees a future in with we kill eldar and decide we need to go, or manipulate in to doing something that fuck us over because it will have a potential to help some eldar in the future?
 
Ultimately, the reason we have a shot at getting a talented Eldar of any persuasion - normal seer, farseer, strategist-diviner, whatever - is because we have effectively spent most of the game building assets and technology that solves their civilization's number one problem.

And then built our deepest non-denvan trade relation with craftworld eldar over multiple turns.

And also lucked into a navigator who can get us to them.

And then got a nat 100 to unlock a technology that takes the above tech and also solves a large part of the sisyphean task of "countering chaos diviners trying to spy on you" that farseers are otherwise occupying their time with.

And then also turned those shields into warp sensors that will likely one day act as diviner aides on a wide scale.

And also most improvements to them can be updated via software. Which can be delivered using the shields as intra-galactic comms units.

And which make warp travel safer.

And which other crits allowed us to make trivially mass produceable.

And a canon omake where us having those things was the result of a farseer action itself. The very character from that omake might be who we get to recruit!


It might take offering them the technology itself rather than just a large and steady supply of them and software upgrades delivered as we make them. It might come with strings, like the crew member having other responsibilities for a while.

But we can change the fate of the entire Eldar race, and we can prove it.

One seer in exchange is a fucking bargain.
 
Picio said:
Some random aspect warrior is not farseer.
As far as I can remember farseers always betray the protagonists, granted sometimes because of arguably good reason, but i would not trust farseer.
What if our hired farseer one day sees a future in with we kill eldar and decide we need to go, or manipulate in to doing something that fuck us over because it will have a potential to help some eldar in the future?
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I mean have you considered that all those protagonists are imperials, that is avowed servants of a fascist theocracy that has as one of its guiding goals the extermination of all eldar? If I were a space elf who could see the future I'd probably betray most imperials too. Happily Vita is not of that mindset
 
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DragonParadox said:
I mean have you considered that all those protectionists are imperials, that is avowed servants of a fascist theocracy that has as one of its guiding goals the extermination of all eldar? If I were a space elf who could see the future I'd probably betray most imperials too. Happily Vita is not of that mindset
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Not all ware human only majority. :) Tau get fuck over too.
 
DragonParadox said:
No... that is not what happened.

From Turn 10


Then we choose to hire him as a hero, one that would level slower than Anexa, but still a hero. Then

From Turn 11
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...God, I think I gaslit myself. It was people other than neablis talking about Victan getting the nat 100 "upgrading" him to bean, and maybe I conflated that with the "Victan will level slower than Anexa" memes.

Either that or I'm gaslighting myself now because I found that exchange but not what I remembered Neablis saying.

Regardless, you know my goal - get the best crew we can get, in the form of having both a generalist seer AND a strategist-diviner. If we can get the latter but not the former from the eldar, then I'll change my vote accordingly. If we can get either... I'll probably stick with strategist.

Hopefully I can convince people not to pick up a lesser strategist if seer wins.
 
The idea that the Eldar we trade with would betray the ongoing suppliers of at minimum upgrades to the psychic shielding they bought, suppliers who themselves can block scrying, is silly.
 
Prime 2.0 said:
But we can change the fate of the entire Eldar race, and we can prove it.

One seer in exchange is a fucking bargain.
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(About to start making a few jokes, please don't take this seriously.)

Frankly, how dare you. You convinced me and I am now bitter. Behold the rage burning within me.

Though more seriously, that last point is… big. VERY big. The idea of helping to save the entire Eldar race is a MASSIVE incentive for me, and the sheer good this has the potential to accomplish is… astounding. Heck we can even swing the Eldar as a spy for them outright, a way to let them have someone on the inside to see what we do so they can ensure we remain an ally to them. To encourage them to treat us in good faith since we'd do the same with them influencing us.

Just… I'm so frustrated that I can easily see how we could accomplish this, and how effective it would be! Dang it… Strategist Gwen then. Fine. I'm pretending to be more bitter about this than I actually am. X3
 
Fundamentally I just really like the aesthetic of an admiral Spire sort of character for a (space) naval strategist, and a mechanicus magos for a ground force strategist since that's mostly bots, so that's what I'll vote for. I don't think that will be a "lesser strategist".
 
DragonParadox said:
Yeah.. can't excuse those, though I will note that in recent books G-Man the Smurf seems to be very chummy with Eldrad's liaison and listens to his advice. If betrayal were inevitable you would think the geneforged demigod with a talent for strategy wouldn't do that.
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Yea I keep it in the same box as female custodes and Wraithbone that is no longer sung in to existence from the warp.
In other words i pretend that GW stupidity dose not exist and Failbaddon the harmless is still armless.
 
ShadeFiende said:
Heck we can even swing the Eldar as a spy for them outright, a way to let them have someone on the inside to see what we do so they can ensure we remain an ally to them. To encourage them to treat us in good faith since we'd do the same with them influencing us.
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Yes, exactly. So much so that they'll want somebody aboard our ship for that purpose even if they don't contribute as a skilled top-line Crew member.

Psy encryption helps us coming and going here. They need their best to see inside our ship, or even into anything we build going forward. We're one tech away from even that being unable to divine us.

So not only does psy encryption change the game for their farseers, it means their farseers aren't enough to safeguard their interests in us... unless they give us a liason we accept who can see on the inside, or otherwise has privileged access.

And if they're going that far, they may as well make it a diviner so they can see the future from the inside and not just the present.

This kind of influence goes both ways, of course. The more we benefit them, the more they rely on us, the more they need to make sure we ourselves are not under any kind of pressure that might force us to divert our resources elsewhere.
 
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[X][Gwendolyn] Strategist
Putting aside the Farseer paranoia (seriously, we just got scry blocking psyshields) and the value of being able to be mostly confident about kicking ass even if we're ambushed, I honestly just really like the idea of an AI's commander companion filling in the niche of intuition and foresight that the AI struggles with. Directing their bots in weird ways that Vita doesn't understand until it abruptly becomes lifesaving is my jam.
 
Prime 2.0 said:
Psy encryption helps us coming and going here. They need their best to see inside our ship, or even into anything we build going forward. We're one tech away from even that being unable to divine us.
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Question. What would your ideal Techs to maximize this chance be? If your goal was to boost our chances of succeeding on that front, what three Techs would you pick in order to achieve it? Is there anything specific that comes to mind?
 
Probably too late to matter, but here:

[X] Plan: Academic Diplomacy
-[X] Research (200 + 85 + 56 RP)
--[X] Collaborative Computational R&D - 250
---[X] Anexa
--[X] Design Orbital Complex - 25 (with 20 Cogitare)
--[X] Nova Cannons: 66 RP + overflow
-[X][Free] Construction (1,500 VBP (Voidforge Miners) = 1500 BP / 1000[666.6 refit BP] BP Repair Bay / 500 Lift Capacity):
--[X] Refit the Spark of the Ancients [122.5 Cramming free after partial refit => one additional slot]:
---[X] Add to Non-Combat Equipment (reduce left cramming from 70 BP to 2.5 BP:
----[X] Troop compartment (50*1.5=75 BP, 45 Cramming)
----[X] Medical bay (25*1.5=37.5 BP, 22.5 Cramming)
---[X] Replace Troop compartment modular slot and Medical facility modular slot with 2x Juvenat Production Facility (750 BP)
---[X] High Maneuverability Thrusters, refit to only take 1080 BP cramming space (1200 BP)
--[X] 104 BP left, give to Victan to help with Diplomacy (product samples?)
-[X] Construction (8 820 + 25 000 [Boon]= 33,820 BP )
--[X] Build three stations orbiting between Primus and Secundus; each to be named after our original crew members.
--[X] One of them is to be a military academy (10 000 BP)
--[X] Another is to be an uplifting campus (10 000 BP)
--[X] The last is to be a meeting/organizational seat for Primus and Secundus (10 000 BP)
--[X] Excedent for commuting shuttles, problem-solving, cost overruns, and so on: 3 820.
-[X] Diplomacy: get buy-in from Primus and Secundus for the stations, so they can help with design, building, and staffing
-[X] Diplomacy: Ensure that the Vellkar & the Stellar Ascendency come to a profitable arrangement for both of them. Stretch Goal: get basing rights for yourself on Denva Primus. Put all the tech you gave the Stellar Ascendency on the table as long as there aren't any obvious red flags coming up during the negotiation (e.g. chaos involvement with the Vellkar)
--[X] Victan
-[X] Cia: Passive Training
-[X] Gwen: passive training

[X][Gwendolyn] Seer

Approval votes:
[X] Plan: Nova cannons go boom. Boonhunting edition.
[X][Gwendolyn] Strategist
 
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