which is why its just a delaying action. yes.
Sterbelicht - One Sacrifice At A Time Against The Galaxy (40K)
- Thread starter HeroCooky
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
You know what? Fair.
Get over here, Well of Eternity, I'm gonna open you like a god damn clam!
We tell the Thules the first one to jump in a come back alive/sane/as they are gets the biggest Yeeni fluff pile.
Unfortunately the Faith Turn Sigils seem pretty underpowered to me - would've liked to have other Research upgrades done instead (or am I misreading the situation?)
After we clear our batch of research with another Turn after this (and clear out our Melody backlog: We have Songs with component Melodies not at III), it might be good to start spamming Titans if we want to be able to hold planets at all.
After we clear our batch of research with another Turn after this (and clear out our Melody backlog: We have Songs with component Melodies not at III), it might be good to start spamming Titans if we want to be able to hold planets at all.
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[X] Plan: WE Do the Research To Advance our Power
-[X] [Free] Shut off [Recycling]
-[X] [Free] Put 10,000 Choirs into Final Mercy and 500 into A Tribe called Celestia, taking 10,500 choirs out of Love Unto Death
-[X] [We Were] Examine the ancient histroy of the Omnissian daughters, looking for more of their graves or legacies. Vera and JAN-3TT3 have each other, but we wish to find a third or a fourth.
-[X] [Free] Consecrate In Sacred Sand (Gulf's Edge & Throughway of Elden Light)
-[X] [Psykana] Sing Two Symphonies (Choose Five Songs)
--[X] Cry for the Future
--[X] Grand Design
-[X] [General/Psykana] Construct A Second Grand Note (2/13) (Class is in Session action)
-[X] [General/Psykana] Construct A Second Grand Note (3/13) (Devouring Mechadendrite action)
-[X] [General] Research: (2 actions + 4 cry actions + 10 research bonus actions = 16 total actions)
--[X] Accelerated Mass-Production Of Rejuvenat (4/8) (4 actions)
--[X] Deva Dreadnoughts (0/4) (4 actions)
--[X] Novel Material Research (0/2) (2 actions)
--[X] Terminator Armor (0/2) (2 actions)
--[X] Minaturized Knight Teleporter (0/4) (4 actions)
1. Nomadic Fleet designs are significantly upgraded, including all of their weapons being roughly 3x as powerful as they would otherwise be, in perpetuity.
2. 5x Blessed sigils that do things like "Make childhood easier" or "make plants grow better and more resistant to blight."
3. Perfect Primaris upgrades for every single Lamenter.
We would have been able to do one of the Deva Dreadnaughts or the Juvenat with the entire turn, and we wouldn't have even been able to do the Lamenter upgrade. We would have had to spend all 3 actions on research and gotten one thing, instead of multiple individual strong things.
I'll admit that the Sigils felt a little underwhelming, but we asked and were told that faith actions would get boosted, so I'm choosing to interpret that all of these sigils are just stronger than the others by a significant margin. And given that 2 of them are extremely broadly applicable, that doesn't seem like a big deal to me.
-[X] [Free] Shut off [Recycling]
-[X] [Free] Put 10,000 Choirs into Final Mercy and 500 into A Tribe called Celestia, taking 10,500 choirs out of Love Unto Death
-[X] [We Were] Examine the ancient histroy of the Omnissian daughters, looking for more of their graves or legacies. Vera and JAN-3TT3 have each other, but we wish to find a third or a fourth.
-[X] [Free] Consecrate In Sacred Sand (Gulf's Edge & Throughway of Elden Light)
-[X] [Psykana] Sing Two Symphonies (Choose Five Songs)
--[X] Cry for the Future
--[X] Grand Design
-[X] [General/Psykana] Construct A Second Grand Note (2/13) (Class is in Session action)
-[X] [General/Psykana] Construct A Second Grand Note (3/13) (Devouring Mechadendrite action)
-[X] [General] Research: (2 actions + 4 cry actions + 10 research bonus actions = 16 total actions)
--[X] Accelerated Mass-Production Of Rejuvenat (4/8) (4 actions)
--[X] Deva Dreadnoughts (0/4) (4 actions)
--[X] Novel Material Research (0/2) (2 actions)
--[X] Terminator Armor (0/2) (2 actions)
--[X] Minaturized Knight Teleporter (0/4) (4 actions)
Nah, we got some pretty strong permanent benefits out of it:
1. Nomadic Fleet designs are significantly upgraded, including all of their weapons being roughly 3x as powerful as they would otherwise be, in perpetuity.
2. 5x Blessed sigils that do things like "Make childhood easier" or "make plants grow better and more resistant to blight."
3. Perfect Primaris upgrades for every single Lamenter.
The problem is that people aren't doing the math on how many actions we had vs. how many the research took. We had to turn off Cry or else we would have gotten a warp storm, and even keeping Grand Design on would have been dodgy. (that's part part of why those Techs were good - remember that it's whole purpose is "All Research Actions have their effects enhanced to the best possible degree they are capable of providing." would have
We would have been able to do one of the Deva Dreadnaughts or the Juvenat with the entire turn, and we wouldn't have even been able to do the Lamenter upgrade. We would have had to spend all 3 actions on research and gotten one thing, instead of multiple individual strong things.
I'll admit that the Sigils felt a little underwhelming, but we asked and were told that faith actions would get boosted, so I'm choosing to interpret that all of these sigils are just stronger than the others by a significant margin. And given that 2 of them are extremely broadly applicable, that doesn't seem like a big deal to me.
if 40k has taught me anything, it's that putting all of your eggs in one basket works until it doesn't. I'd prefer to have another 1000 Gloriana-scale Dreadnaughts instead of a single world-engine.
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The second Grand Note is going to auto-complete. Why are you spending actions on it?
Your math doesn't seem quite right: If you pursue the cry actions all the way you get a lot more than that, and even if you don't want to squeeze all the way you can get 5 or 6 cry actions? (1.8 bonii = 2.8 eff actions per action, Cry triggers every eff 3 Actions iirc)
Why though? Better to throw this into the Anti-Psychic Materials upgrade and dump the remainder into Null Thoughts IMO.
Edit:
I suspect the reason is Cry Action Farming, but even then we could throw those into Psykana Melody research instead?
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Because that ends before Epilogue Reels start, having two active means our entire power is fully linked and we can send someone from one side to the other in a matter of days, which is really good when the Nids hit. The Duchy's going to be the front line most likely, but I'd be surprised if literally none slip past them to hit us and Mashan. Having the central link of our alliance chain have what amounts to being a superhighway is a massive benefit.
I will say this, I am Extremely wary about using "We Were" to look into shit that even the Chaos Gods are scared of. That kind of thing probably isn't healthy to mortal minds. I can't anti-vote that idea enough. If we can't think of anything reasonable to throw it on. Don't throw it on a Pandora's Box right when we're on the cusp of an Existential Crisis.
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- Location
- Spain
Why are we researching this for an extra 1% Juvenat, let's literally research anything else...
If it was the extra 30% of the Faith Turn I would understand it, but not for a measly 1%
I still don't see why it is so important, it will still be finished during the Epilogue, its effects will apply to that Epilogue so no reason to invest in that IMO...
But just to be sure @HeroCooky even if the second note will be auto finished during after march 1...
Its effects would also apply to the Epilogue, no?
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Because the Epilogue Starts when the Nids get here, and if you think the Duchy is going to be able to keep pouring actions in when the Nids are here in force, uh...
[X] Plan: WE Do the Research To Advance our Power, Better Research Version
-[X] [Free] Shut off [Recycling]
-[X] [Free] Put 10,000 Choirs into Final Mercy and 500 into A Tribe called Celestia, taking 10,500 choirs out of Love Unto Death
-[X] [We Were] Examine the history of Terra and Mars from the perspective of the average individual, and before the Emperor came if time permitted - how did society develop over time, and why?
-[X] [Free] Consecrate In Sacred Sand (Gulf's Edge & Throughway of Elden Light)
-[X] [Psykana] Sing Two Symphonies (Choose Five Songs)
--[X] Cry for the Future
--[X] Grand Design
-[X] [Psykana] Conduct Ten Melodies (0.6/1 - Auto Complete) (Class Is In Session Action)
--[X] Cogitation II, Liberation II, Spirit II, Shatter II, Duty II, Honor II, Glory II, Unwavering II, Cherish II, Revenge III
-[X] [General] Research: (2 actions + 4 cry actions + 10 research bonus actions = 16 total actions)
--[X] Anti-Warp Weaponry and Armor (0/4) (4 actions)
--[X] Dreadnoughts Upgraded (0/4) (4 actions)
--[X] Improvised Novel Material Research (0/2) (2 actions)
--[X] Prototype Terminator Armor (0/2) (2 actions)
--[X] Knight Teleporter (0/4) (4 actions)
Pending recalculation of Research Actions after I look closer at the Cry Rules. (Non-recursive math seems correct to me.)
Might take out the Grand Note options: @HeroCooky Is there any benefit to finishing the Second Grand Note earlier, and will throwing our own Actions into it actually help, or will the Duchy just rubberband their help accordingly?
Edit:
-[X] [Free] Shut off [Recycling]
-[X] [Free] Put 10,000 Choirs into Final Mercy and 500 into A Tribe called Celestia, taking 10,500 choirs out of Love Unto Death
-[X] [We Were] Examine the history of Terra and Mars from the perspective of the average individual, and before the Emperor came if time permitted - how did society develop over time, and why?
-[X] [Free] Consecrate In Sacred Sand (Gulf's Edge & Throughway of Elden Light)
-[X] [Psykana] Sing Two Symphonies (Choose Five Songs)
--[X] Cry for the Future
--[X] Grand Design
-[X] [Psykana] Conduct Ten Melodies (0.6/1 - Auto Complete) (Class Is In Session Action)
--[X] Cogitation II, Liberation II, Spirit II, Shatter II, Duty II, Honor II, Glory II, Unwavering II, Cherish II, Revenge III
-[X] [General] Research: (2 actions + 4 cry actions + 10 research bonus actions = 16 total actions)
--[X] Anti-Warp Weaponry and Armor (0/4) (4 actions)
--[X] Dreadnoughts Upgraded (0/4) (4 actions)
--[X] Improvised Novel Material Research (0/2) (2 actions)
--[X] Prototype Terminator Armor (0/2) (2 actions)
--[X] Knight Teleporter (0/4) (4 actions)
Might take out the Grand Note options: @HeroCooky Is there any benefit to finishing the Second Grand Note earlier, and will throwing our own Actions into it actually help, or will the Duchy just rubberband their help accordingly?
Edit:
Grand Design version is 10% actually, so it's not a complete waste of actions; I just want other things more for now.
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- Pronouns
- Viewer
[X] Plan: WE Do the Research To Advance our Power
Fixed in my plan, but Cooky will account for it when the vote closed even if it isn't corrected?
- Location
- Spain
Guys, you do realize that all these are exclusive of the Faith Turn...
THESE are the Research available this turn...
[X] Plan: WE Do the Research To Advance our Power
Man, fun to get into all of this after the vote opens.
Because I'm allowed to:
Because it's boosted by the symphony, which gives us:
So it's going to be more than 1%. It'll be like 10% or something - we don't know the exact numbers. @HeroCooky If you would be so kind, can you list the benefits of the above researches under The Grand Design, our explicitly tech-focused capstone. If it's like 2% Juvenat penetrance than I'll back down. But just because it's not done during a holy turn doesn't mean it's useless.
Ok - fair enough. I was basing it off the QM's proposal. What do you suggest instead?
Because Cry actions don't count themselves. That's why my math (which is laid out in detail below) counts non-cry actions. Divide that by 4 and round up to get the number of bonus actions. We get 16 non-cry actions, therefore 4 cry actions, and you're allowed to chain them, as I did here. If my math is wrong, show it. Because of the chaining it's more than simple multiplication.
Again, I'm still expecting 10% or so.
Cry action farming isn't actually necessary. It's mostly to get it done sooner, and maybe slam out another one. Do you know what's better than 2 Grand Notes? 3.
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Untrue. They are better than that, because of the Grand Design Symphony, which will bridge some of the distance between these versions and the Holy Turn versions.
In fact, part of why the holy-turn versions were so good was that it was a double-combo, Grand Design + Holy Turn. Which means we would have needed to leave the Grand Design on to claim them, which would have been pushing into Warp Storm Territory. So in fact in getting any of the techs listed we would have been risking a warp storm.
Edit: Also, changed the We Were action to looking for more AIs.
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Edit: 5% apparently, how useful is that from a numbers perspective? 🤷
Not sure how to compare that with better Anti-Psykana Materials given that that may or may not be relevant during Tyranid attacks.
Yep, I thought it did count themselves but apparently not: Under that light your math checks out.
Do you mind recording down Terra/Mars History (and societal changes/reasoning) from a more ground level perspective before it becomes hazardous instead?
And would you support another Research Turn if Warp Tremors permit, or rep1lace your Note Actions for Psykana if Cooky confirms that the Duchy will rubber-band their effort accordingly if we put in some effort now? Thanks.
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- Location
- Spain
OK Fair enough...
Although, @Neablis , shouldn't we try to finish this ASAP, or at least take some actions to finish it next turn?
Honestly the whole Aethyrmetric - Null Thoughts thingy sounds OP as fuck, and we should try to get it before the Epilogue...
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100 turns ago we would have gone to war for a 5% increase. That tech used to be a 0.4% increase and the Grand Design improved it to a 0.8% increase and we took it. On the scale of our civilization it's literally trillions of highly skilled people living much longer lives.
Why would it become hazardous to look into Terra/Mars history? Star Child's birth isn't until very late in the epilogue. What are you hoping to gain?
I'd prefer to spend any excess warp tremors we have on awakening more AIs. That's part of why I'm doing this We Were action, to see if any of them are present.
I'm pretty sure the Duchy has Null Thoughts. They're who we traded with for that whole tech tree, and then there was a giant project we got that made us even more chaos-resistant. Based on that, we'd need to build more stuff to be able to make use of null thoughts.
I'd prefer to chase down the things that make us special (namely Space Marines, Knights and Necron guns) and then we can trade with them in the epilogue or something. If you'd prefer to do Null Thoughts, make a plan that does it.
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Vibes and lost history, anything else is a bonus.
Sure: We have more than enough options to awaken more AIs already though, since AI isn't going to help the Epilogue that much? (We still have one last option if you want, no need to spend a We Were Charge on it yet)
Assuming your plan wins, this is my final tally for extra research: 12 + 4 + 4 = 20 more effective Actions to go, with flex going to the weaponry dev line.
If I did not count wrongly we have 32 Melody Levels left to clear (double-tapping is now permitted due to it almost being the Epilogue): 3 Actions would almost clear out all of them, and then remaining Actions go to Titans and Military as needed.
Hopefully we get more size bonii soon from the Asteroid Belts to discount these a little bit?
Edit:
We already have the Aethyrmetric engines. I would make a Trade Subturn to get it directly from the Duchy instead of via research, but are you ok with losing a Turn to subvotes?
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
I mean, the real cooking is going to be from the first Grand Note going online. I think we've hit the point of Exponential Growth. We've got strong expansion and cultural games, solid military might, we can absorb small powers and integrate them below our level of notice, and now we just got fast and reasonably stable FTL transport and communications which are a large but not impossible investment for us at this point.
And the Green Belts mean we have proto-Ringworlds in every system with a significant asteroid belt.
And the Green Belts mean we have proto-Ringworlds in every system with a significant asteroid belt.
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HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
The Duchy will finish it in 790.M43.
It's a 5% increase. Other techs I don't have the time for due to work.
Th-that was a joke...