If I recall correctly, this would be an essence equivalence contested roll. So 4 dice of the book (don't remember the difficulty) vs arete/2 dice of the wizard at dc9
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Could you just include breaking the binding in the list of prohibited actions? So they just always have 0 successes. Would not some them from getting someone else to break it, but that at least requires premeditation and cooperation.
Not that I think it should be so easy to slip out, but if you think so.
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I'm honestly not sure if it works like this, and it wouldn't affect a third party trying to break the binding placed pm someone
It seems unlikely that the White Council would allow anyone skilled enough to break the binding to sign the book. The point of this thing is to deal with people who broke the law in ignorance or under compulsion.
Anyway vote closed
I'm saying it shouldn't be that simple, charms aside* this is an Ancient Sorcery construct. That's the difference between splendors and prodigies.
You shouldn't be able to just unweave it like a regular magic effect. If it's possible in the first place even being allowed to try thinking about making the roll should involve some hefty upfront research.
Functionally opposing something like this would be akin to trying to counterspell time.
Can a wizard manipulate time? Yes, with heavy specific investment to do so. Can they permanently unbind something from causality by making one unweaving roll at the difficulty cap against reality? No, that's ridiculous. Significantly more investment would be needed to do anything permanent and exotic if allowed in the first place.
Otherwise what's the point of treating splendors a different, deeper, thing? All the hype falls flat if it's no different than regular magic for the purposes of the people we actually see in play.
* And again, the book even says they can only do this because mages are baby demiurges and Holden didn't want to take that from them. DF wizards aren't like that, but the current setup effectively allows them all the benefits without any of the real balancing factors.
Yes, Appropriate. Other Backgrounds are Not Appropriate.
You cant just go out and buy the Whispers Background for an Infernal, for example, or give a Solar Demonic Familiar, or a Dragon-Blood Past Lives.
Im not interpreting anything. The plain text of the citations speak for themselves, which was why I spent the time to post them.
If you looked at the book , you'll notice that Holden did not give Jade Talisman Background to the Exalts that he classified as Solaroids: Solars, Abyssals, Infernals, all of whom have 20m at E5.
He did not give it to Lunars or Sidereals either, both of whom are Celestial-tier Exalts and have 15m of Essence at E5.
He gave it to DBs, who have only 10m of Essence at E5.
He also gave it to Alchemicals, who are also Celestial-tier, but Im not sufficiently familiar with the ExWoD Alchemical charmset to take a stab at his thinking.
Access to Essence is a balance decision, one that is made when designing the charmset, and its pretty evident that its a deliberate choice on the part of the game designer to establish different limits per Exalt-type.
To be fair?
If they are allowed to fuck with the workings of Solaroid Charms, I dont see how fucking with Splendors is supposed to be any more of a stretch.
The issue is, and has always been, that the vast majority of wizards would consider it an unacceptable risk to bind themselves in a book that would immediately become a prime target for every Destro faction out there, and some neutrals.
Especially with recent events.
At best, you might get them to use it as a replacement for the Doom of Damocles.
Ivar
Dark Reaper
- Location
- Russia Moscow
Do you understand that this is the purpose of the book anyway? No one suggested that everyone do this. This is the replacement for the Doom of Damocles
No the other ones are disallowed there's a difference and I think you know that appropriate just means some extenuating circumstances ( descendant of the Dragon Blood family, descendant of one of the hungry dead....) needs to be met to take this background at the start of a Chronicle.
Say that you don't prefer or you believe the appropriateness directly relates to the rules around Essence economy do not make up rulings based on literally nothing because that's not what the word appropriate means.
Again there are sections in literally each of the exalted headers about which backgrounds are disallowed or exclusive and Jade talismans are very specifically absent from the disallowed list on every exalted. Nor are they on the exclusive list for the dragonblooded or the alchemicals. The limitation that you were citing is without backing.
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Arc 15 Post 5: Sins and Sensibilities
Sins and Sensibilities
25st of February 2007 A.D.
The flash of a muzzle in the dark, a young man falling to his clutching at his chest as blood pools though layers of white linen and brown rugged wool, bright brass buttons are tarnished forever as the light goes out from his eyes in disbelief. A much younger Cristos stands over him holding an antique pistol—not so antique for the this hour before dawn on the rocky shore of of the Peloponnese, you know instinctively— The dying man tries to say something, a secret clawing to get out of his chest, but blood steals his voice and shock sends him under, never to reveal that the duel had been meant to be rigged from the start, just a game meant to prove the the authorities that the two men were not allied with the rebels in the mountains, that they were as they seemed foolish youths inheriting too much of their parents coin.
But young Cristos too had seen with eyes more than mortal that once would have marked him as a priest of Apolo or by that god cursed. He knew that nothing but the death of Andreas, for that was the name he would carve into the headstone in three days hence, would convince the commander of the Turkish garrison of their innocence. One or the other must die by shot or both would be hanged and the seer dared not reveal what he had seen, for magic feared and hated greatly or so he told himself. He had been willing to risk death for the freedom of his people, but not to embrace it. The choice had been no choice at all and it had been magic that tipped the scales even though no spell had been cast in the killing.
***
Well, you take a deep breath, that is somewhat apropos to the idea of sparing those who have broken the First Law, too bad I don't have any way to know about it that isn't digging though his fate for sins. I could not even claim to have seen it in a soulgaze since every wizard here who hasn't already soul-gazed you is keeping their eyes averted. Still you rise from your seat at the invitation of the Merlin to encouraging looks from Yuki and Carlos and an uneasy one from Harry, still not used to the head of the Council being on the same side.
"Good evening to you all and thanks to the Senior Council for inviting me to speak at this juncture." You pause for a moment looking around the room, judging who dislikes you for your own sake, who dislikes the connection to the seven most powerful wizards in the room and who might like Yuki feel they owe you a debt of gratutude after what you just did. "I am in one sense alone here today, the only one not a wizard called to speak and yet in another sense I share with you a world behind the veil of the mundane. I was taught by a trusted source as each of you were to keep the secret, the whys and hows, the limitations of magic and its dangers, not just from without, but from within. A useful lesson for a girl prone to dash headlong action and yet I cannot but wonder more and more at the price of that caution, the price all of us pay. This day is not one of celebration, victory tastes of blood and ashes, most of all of questions. Why did this happen? How could so many have fallen so deeply?"
"And you're going to answer that are you girl?" a voice calls from Cristos' right, not the man himself of course, it would be beneath him to heckle.
"I was there when Warden Morgan interrogated Howard Shaw, I learned... to be honest far more than is comfortable about his particular journey, but it's not the place of man to be too comfortable. The fruit of knowledge has been bitten and that we can't take back. It all began with the secret, the lies that we must live that make all of us strangers to our fellow man. One would have to be more than human not to feel anger, fear, despair at one time or another and therein is the gap though which the armies of hell might march. Understand that I do not accuse any in this chamber of having failed to hold that breach. With courage, with skill, with empathy and yes with wisdom for which you are named in the tongue I now speak you have endured."
You leave another pause for reflection on the experience of alienation of being made a stranger in your own land and among your own people whether that be the bustling ports of Southern China, the green downs of England before she was Britain, First Peoples of the Americas or Greek rebels against a Sultan now long dead.
"Not everyone does, not everyone knows to even try. More wizards have been born in these past two hundred years than could have been predicted much less accounted for, more than could be trained or even contacted. It's a dangerous world out there, for those talented but lacking in knowledge more so than most and magic is always to hand. You know of what I speak, the First Law, 'Thou Shalt Not Kill'. That death should be answered with death is not justice, it is tragedy. So I come to you today wizards of the White Council with a book wherein those who have erred against the Law may sign their name and be bound, not in their minds, not even in their souls, but in their existence entire. They would never be able to kill water cannot burn or fire cannot freeze in place."
"Who are you girl, in whose name do you offer this?" Cristos asks, his tone more polite than his words, weary.
[] Answer as a Queen
[] Answer as your father's daughter
[] Answer as one who has once broken a law and been spared though the intercession of heaven and the work of ancient powers
[] Write in
OOC: Enjoy, sorry this is late guys but we just had elections in Romania and the Exit-Pols just came out. The results for once are cautiously good as in someone sane and competent might win, then again so might one of two flavors of fascist so you know 2024 as per usual.
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- Location
- Right Where I Am
Now you've got me brainstorming the sort of quests that they would go on to get those. The order you listed them in would probably be the order of difficulty from least to most difficult.
Infernals that prove themselves on board for the Send Creation to Oblivion plan could probably pull off some necromancy to make it work without much trouble. Solars willing to head on down to Malfeas to claim some demonic power for themselves who aren't just getting high on their own Glorious Golden Ego should be capable.
Dragonbloods would be the tricky one. You don't have the independent exaltation that had a previous bearer to work with. So, figure out something with tapping your bloodline itself, and possibly the history of your own soul? Figure out how to sort of recreate the psyche of back when you were one of your own ancestors.
That's 8 successes, right? Should be plenty good.
Ivar
Dark Reaper
- Location
- Russia Moscow
[X] Answer as a Queen
Yes, the other options do not broadcast how we did it. I think that this is a political place and we will give a political speech. And I hope we will take into account the other points from the main voice later, and this is a preamble for now. But in general, we are not here as a girl who broke the law out of ignorance. Not as the daughter of the Sword of God. We are here as the Queen of our own dimension of 2 billion intelligent souls who breaks reality over her knee. We did not come here to ask for pity or understanding of our faith. We are here to show that we can deliver on our words.
And these people are seriously asking who she is? Seriously? Are they that ignorant of what is happening or is this a provocation by stupidity?
Yes, the other options do not broadcast how we did it. I think that this is a political place and we will give a political speech. And I hope we will take into account the other points from the main voice later, and this is a preamble for now. But in general, we are not here as a girl who broke the law out of ignorance. Not as the daughter of the Sword of God. We are here as the Queen of our own dimension of 2 billion intelligent souls who breaks reality over her knee. We did not come here to ask for pity or understanding of our faith. We are here to show that we can deliver on our words.
And these people are seriously asking who she is? Seriously? Are they that ignorant of what is happening or is this a provocation by stupidity?
[X] Write-in: Answer as one who has once broken a law and been spared though the intercession of heaven and the work of ancient powers, given chance to grow, who now stands as a Queen in her own right, a power for the good of Creation
Ours is a story of success in this context. Forst answer is who we were, third is whk we were. Being Michael's daughter is not relevant here, I feel, possibly detrimental as we have been warned. So, take third and first, and combine them to show how by sparing people with appropriate precautions they might enrich themselves.
Ours is a story of success in this context. Forst answer is who we were, third is whk we were. Being Michael's daughter is not relevant here, I feel, possibly detrimental as we have been warned. So, take third and first, and combine them to show how by sparing people with appropriate precautions they might enrich themselves.
- Location
- Brazil
Even if they only vaguely knew who she was (since even the Senior Council itself doesn't have anywhere near the full picture) how someone presents themselves, especially when they're making a political speech, is important.
Now if they continue to question us over basic things, then they're mocking us and not respecting us.
Yog, don't take this the wrong way, but why do you always want to complicate the vows when simply answering 'Like a Queen' is enough? I don't see the need to add fancy words, simple and direct is much better.
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Ivar
Dark Reaper
- Location
- Russia Moscow
I think this is a terrible idea. It will break our narrative and especially Molly's breaking of laws is no longer relevant. Don't mention unnecessary facts and here no one knows about her breaking of laws.
Moreover, it would be very seriously stupid to set the bar as high as Molly. Saving people who broke laws does not require the participation of heaven. You should give the example of Dresden
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Because this is basically karma? We have been given a chance, and are now trying to give the same chance to others, now that we are in a position of power . This is something they should be able to sympathize with.
Simply "as Queen" runs the complication / connotation of WC having to make a deal with infernal power.
I'll sleep on this, because yes, revealing the lawbreaking is a potential problem. But simple "Queen" option is far from perfect
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Answer as a Queen
[X] Answer as a Queen
Ivar
Dark Reaper
- Location
- Russia Moscow
I suppose this option will explain a little more about who Molly is in her official role. But if you don't trust the GM to fully describe the generic option, write a more detailed speech.
And karma is not the answer either. We didn't get any chances, we didn't pass any tests, we cheated the system... And we propose to do it again. Morality frankly has nothing to do with why Molly doesn't go crazy. Quite the contrary, she literally breaks most moral stories about the consequences of breaking commandments and laws with her existence.
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BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
Don't tell them we broke the Laws when we were human... That's going to make some dehumanize and alienate us even more due to their religious perspective on the Laws of Magic.
[X] Answer as a Queen
Edit: We'd basically be announcing to everyone that we are a blasphemer and only dodged the consequences of our heresy because of literal divine intervention from Heaven. We want them to look at us like an ally not some lesser evil they can make a deal with.
[X] Answer as a Queen
Edit: We'd basically be announcing to everyone that we are a blasphemer and only dodged the consequences of our heresy because of literal divine intervention from Heaven. We want them to look at us like an ally not some lesser evil they can make a deal with.
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- Location
- Brazil
Well, for me, your speech doesn't work at all, firstly because it opens the can of worms of us being rule breakers for no reason, because it has been confirmed that it doesn't matter anymore after our exaltation, when everyone is still sensitive about the disasters caused by other oath breakers. Even if someone doesn't use this as a platform to start contradicting us for some reason, the subconscious prejudice against us will still exist.
Second, the rest of the sentence gave a somewhat arrogant tone to me, I don't know why, because if, as you say, they were to believe that "Simply "as Queen" runs the complication / connotation of WC having to make a deal with infernal power", then they would believe it anyway, our power has a infernal scent, is not even something we can hide, there are records of it and you can just ask fairies and they said so. If that is your concern, then exist at all times because we are already an informal ally of WC selling magitech weapons to them, we will only have to trust that our speech and Merlin, the Council's political expert calm their fears, because we will only be an official and open ally now.
It may not be perfect but it is good enough, short, direct, does not reveal other weaknesses and declares our position as a power of own, not asking for pity or using Heaven's reputation as if it were our own.
My opinion.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[x] Answer as a Queen
Sorry Yog, I usually like your plans, but your option is…. Unwise in the face of a woman giving a politically important speech to a group of old people who grew up in very patriarchal societies, and thus won't be inclined to listen to Molly anyways.
Sorry Yog, I usually like your plans, but your option is…. Unwise in the face of a woman giving a politically important speech to a group of old people who grew up in very patriarchal societies, and thus won't be inclined to listen to Molly anyways.
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