Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

This is partially a joke, but Nokia are infamous for being invincible, and magic is affected by belief! And they're just stupidly tough in the first place!

That would have a notable impact at least. Molly isn't sure if it would fix the problem, most likely they would still go through phones like crazy, but at the very least if you convinced the wizard that this phone is more resistant it would be. The tech bane after all comes from them, it is that part of the mortal soul that is not aligned with their conscious intent and souls have beliefs that are more than just thoughts, that is how True Faith works.
 
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[X] Offer the exorcism first to make it clear that isn't connected to any personal stuff

I don't like the idea of us making her feel like she has to give in to be saved from her curse.
 
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I'm pretty confident in this one, sorry about the lack of sources though. I've got a lot going on and haven't had a lot of free time to do deep dives into relatively obscure lore until now.

This particular bit of lore is spread around a lot of places, but I'm still confident in the basic premise. From a narrative perspective Salina's working exists to show a well meaning First Age Solar is still a First Age Solar. They were dangerous, insane, and dangerously insane.

So far the best I've got is the original write up for Salina' character sheet from Dreams of the First Age : Lords of Creation pages 137-138.

It doesn't actually directly mention the hazards of what she did, but I'm pretty sure that should be in one of the lore sections of the books of sorcery: white and black treatise or the core books.

There are some relevant bits though. Firstly as a matter of character Salina not only preferred to see the good side of people, she categorically refused to accept the bad side could exist. Further; the reason she was a hard core anarchist* is that she remembers her first incarnation dying to She Who Lives In Her Name. The vision he got while dying essentially traumatized her so hard that she started considering any sort of hierarchy immoral.

More immediately relevant - her project came in two parts. The first was the working that made sorcery available to everyone, and the second a secret project was to make all types of sorcery available to anyone who cared to learn.

I'm reasonably convinced every stage of her project had a serious risk profile, but it's also possible that her ongoing work was what triggered alarm bells. As in, she fundamentally reshaped how reality worked because it didn't align with her philosophy and wanted to do it again but worse. Still working on the sources for that one, so we'll see.



* Going as far as arranging the government of her own territory such that it only technically existed. No authorities, no laws, nothing but ceremonial duties to satisfy a charm she used to facilitate trade.
There's a lot exalted does to really showcase the excesses of the exalted during the first age including military exercises that actually delete part of creation and kill 40 million people and it being a triumphant success it doesn't mention anything about reality being damaged not even in the black and white treatise.

Even the sorcery book doesn't have much to say on the actual consequences.
Book of Sorcery Vol.2 - Black and White Treatises Pg.13 said:
THE SALINAN WORKING
Few in the Age of Sorrows know about the Salinan Working, but it is perhaps the greatest achievement of the Old Realm's sorcerer-kings. Solar, Lunar and Sidereal sorcerers conducted mighty rituals at all five elemental poles and adjusted the Loom of Fate itself—but the full extent of the Working is no longer known.

Savants do know the Working has some connection to the Five Ordeals through which would-be sorcerers learn to cast spells. Some believe the Salinan Working twists Fate itself so that potential sorcerers undergo the necessary challenges, perhaps even before they develop any interest in sorcery.

Likewise, some savants believe the Working subtly manipulates the fabric of Creation to preserve sorcerous lore. Should no copies of a given spell exist save in the mind of a dying sorcerer, the magic of the Working transcribes that spell somewhere in the natural fabric of
the sorcerer's surroundings. It may appear locked within crystals nearby, waiting for the light of a Celestial anima to project an image of that formula onto a nearby wall.

Or perhaps the spell appears as markings on the feathers of a breed of birds nearby, which will forever breed true this trait, waiting for a sorcerer capable of understanding the spell to come along, notice the pattern and intuitively piece its secrets together. The claim seems hard to prove, but it would explain some of the… eccentric ways occult lore is sometimes recorded.

Savants also claim the Working somehow infused mystic lore into Creation's fundamental flows of Essence—patterns that can be sensed and interpreted by sorcerers who meditate at certain manses and demesnes. These patterns also reveal spells and other formulae.

There is a lot of personal risk in profile to undergoing her great work but reality is Not Fragile in exalted, that's kind of the point that's how disaster after disaster can bring it lower and lower without killing it. If relatively minor alterations we're going to destroy reality it would have been gone before the the Aftershock War or in the Balorian Crusade.

Salina's work is Invaluable and Powerful but it's relatively a minor change because all it does is expand the range of who can use sorcery it doesn't introduce new Sorcerous function it doesn't change the functioning of sorcery as a principle and it by itself doesn't actually help breach sorcery circles. It's a minor change that has large spanning ramifications not actually a structural change to creation and there's been a lot of structural changes purely negative to Creation that it has weathered already.

This goes into theming as well the tagline of exalted is you have the power to change the world, should you - Not the world will shutter and break apart if you do anything to it.

Hell on that same page it has the leader of the bronze stars Chejop Kejak actively coping and even in the deepest level of cope he's more worried about them actively making war that destroys creation then other people successfully emulating her destroying it.
Book of Sorcery Vol.2 - Black and White Treatises Pg.13 said:
A COMMENT FROM CHEJOP KEJAK,
LEADER OF THE BRONZE FACTION
"Yes, we have all benefited from the Salinan Working—but ponder the sheer arrogance required to tamper with Creation's very nature! Salina's success inspired other sorcerers
to plan other Workings, seeking to reshape all Creation to their will. They would have
made Creation darker than the Underworld, more twisted than Malfeas—if they didn't tear
it apart in their struggle to see whose vision would triumph.
"They had to die. All of them, even the ones like Salina herself, who thought they acted from the purest motives. As every sorcerer learns, the final wisdom is sacrifice. We made our sacrifice."
Hell he even says we've all benefited from her working. The wars or struggles to see whose vision would Triumph are more a danger than successfully emulating her wether that means war or contradictory works it doesn't particularly matter.

The last line is why I'm saying he's coping because, yes I'm sure the billions of people who died in your not at all coup definitely felt that it was a sacrifice worth making I'm sure. I'm sure there was a no other path that could have been taken that wouldn't have led to the death of billions and the suffering of hundreds of millions more and I'm sure the death of 30 of your coworkers definitely wasn't the result of you rejecting that other vision.

Your sacrifice while you live in heaven and have a salary that would literally bankrupt the 10 richest kings of this current Fallen era and and drink the wine of heaven while you shmooze and play politics with gods is dearly felt.
 
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That would have a notable impact at least. Molly isn't sure if it would fix the problem, most likely they would still go through phones like crazy, but at the very least if you convinced the wizard that this phone is more resistant it would be. The tech bane after all comes from them, it is that part of the mortal soul that is not aligned with their conscious intent and souls have beliefs that are more than just thoughts, that is how True Faith works.

:D

I mean, it would still obviously be better for them to have demon phones, but they're rich. They can pay for the wardens to have a supply of Nokia, at least. It's cheaper than plastic miniatures, at least!
 
It doesn't actually directly mention the hazards of what she did, but I'm pretty sure that should be in one of the lore sections of the books of sorcery: white and black treatise or the core books.
I did a deep dive, which means I searched all the 2e books using "Salina" as the keyword. The interesting things I learned are:
1) Salina learned much of what she knew and developed from Lunars, and they still align with her school:
The Solar master Salina owed much of her success
in her great working to her Lunar allies.
SELF -TAUGHT SORCERERS
While the Crossroads Society offers reliable
training in sorcery, a would-be Lunar sorcerer can
also draw upon the Salinan Working. This mystical
endeavor infused the precepts of sorcery into Creation
itself so that Essence-channelers could initiate them-
selves and learn sorcery simply through enlightened
observation of the world around them. Lunar sorcerers
helped the Twilight Caste master Salina develop her
mystical school. No wonder, then, that Lunars easily
learn sorcery through mystical contemplation and
spontaneous ordeals. The Society tries to recruit self-
initiated Lunars through the promise of access to its
accumulated spells and lore—but not every sorcerer
accedes. Lunar society includes many independent
sorcerers as well.
2) Salinan working was made with full collaboration of Sidereals and is still cited by Gold Faction as one of the examples of why they should have supported Solars:
Sometimes, the Lunars and Solars appreciated the
guidance given by Sidereal colleagues. The Gold Fac-
tion likes to emphasize how much of the Old Realm's
achievements rested on Solar might and genius, guided
by Sidereal foresight and planning. The faction points to
the Salinan Working, which wove sorcerous initiation
into the fabric of Creation itself, as an example of such
partnership, stressing that the Twilight Caste Salina had
Glorious Viziers in her group.
The Bronze Faction prefers to cite the evidence that
the Solars and Lunars became increasingly resentful of their
cautious advisors. A few diaries and missives from First Age
Exalted call the Seers the "Naysayers" instead, for telling
powerful Exalted about the problems and diffi culties of the
deeds they planned. The Salinan Working may have been
the greatest collaboration between Solars and Sidereals—
but it was also one of the last.
3) White God, or at least "Holy Spirit" part of it might well be the Consciousness of Creation emerging and maturing from Salinan working.
 
This is very much a 'try and find out' kind of situation, but Molly is quite sure that gift would not be as powerful as Sapphire Ritual Exorcism
Not as powerful certainly.
But Sappire Circle Exorcism is a heavyweight ancient sorcery spell, that is straight up capable of otherwise impossible shit like exorcising Fallen and Outsiders, regardless of the opinion of anyone other than the caster..

The Exorcism Gift cant do that, but it can expel lesser spirits much faster, and much cheaper.
And the Hunger demon of a Red Court dhampir certainly qualifies.
So it seems to me at least.


I very much like this armor. I love the defenses against entire category of attacks. Saves Molly having to spend motes fighting mooks. Look forward to see the 4-5 dot versions now that we have the discount forge and more reagents.
One, Molly doesnt need better armor.
By the time she hits Stamina 5 at the end of this turn, she's already at the point where she can trivially summon 10 Soak against all effects(11 with Ebon Scales) at the cost of 1m of Essence, and has 15-23HLs backing that.

Two, it is generally a bad idea to make gear and abilities that break combat.
Its supposed to be a game, and Molly's shintai already makes it pretty hard to present credible combat threats to her when she gets serious about dishing out the mayhem.

Three, if you make it require a nuke to even harm Molly, the collateral effects will TPK her party members.
Or you start having to contrive reasons why it didnt.


Colleagues and Contentions​
21st of February 2007 A.D.
COMMENTARY
-Molly rolled 14 successes on Intimidation.
More surprising was Harry actually making his Subterfuge roll against a dude with more than a century of undercover insurgency work.


-Susan explicitly left Harry both a contact number and a drop mail address back at the end of Death Masks, which would have been ~2003 IC.
When I got back to my house, I found a postcard with a picture of Rio and no return address with my mail. There was a number on the back. I called the number, and after a few rings, Susan asked, "Harry?"
"Harry," I said.
"Are you all right?"
"Shot," I said. "It'll heal."
"Did you beat Nicodemus?"
"I got away from him," I said. "We stopped the plague. But he killed Shiro."
"Oh," she said quietly. "I'm sorry."
"I got my coat back. And my car. Not a total loss." I started opening mail as I spoke.
Susan asked, "What about the Shroud?"
"Jury's not out yet. Marcone got involved."
"What happened?" she said.
"He saved my life," I said. "Michael's too. He didn't have to do it."
"Wow."
"Yeah. Sometimes it feels like the older I get, the more confused everything is."
Susan coughed. "Harry. I'm sorry I wasn't around. By the time I was conscious, we were already over Central America."
"It's okay," I said.
"I didn't know what Martin had in mind," she said. "Honestly. I wanted to talk to you and to Trish and pick up a few of my things. I thought Martin was only coming along to help. I didn't know that he had come here to kill Ortega. He used me to cover his movements."
"It's okay."
"It isn't okay. And I'm sorry."
I opened an envelope, read it, and blurted, "Oh, you're kidding me."
"What?"
"I just opened a letter. It's from Larry Fowler's lawyer. The jerk is suing me for trashing his car and his studio."
"He can't prove that," Susan said. "Can he?"
"Whether or not he can, this is going to cost me a fortune in legal fees. Smarmy, mealymouthed jerk."
"Then I hate to add more bad news. Ortega is back in Casaverde, recovering. He's called in all his strongest knights and let it be widely known that he's coming to kill you personally."
"I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Did you see the subtle humor there? Vampires, cross? God, I'm funny."
Susan said something in Spanish, not into the phone, and sighed. "Damn. I have to go."
"Saving nuns and orphans?" I asked.
"Leaping tall buildings in a single bound. I should probably put on some underwear."
That brought a smile to my face. "You joke around a lot more than you used to," I said. "I like it."
I could picture the sad smile on her face as she spoke. "I'm dealing with a lot of scary things," she said. "I think you have to react to them. And you either laugh at them or you go insane. Or you become like Martin. Shut off from everything and everyone. Trying not to feel."
"So you joke," I said.
"I learned it from you."
"I should open a school."
"Maybe so," she said. "I love you, Harry. I wish things were different."
My throat got tight. "Me too."
"I'll get you a drop address. If you ever need my help, get in touch."
"Only if I need your help?" I asked.
She exhaled slowly and said, "Yeah."

I tried to say, "Okay," but my throat was too tight to speak.
"Good- bye, Harry," Susan said.
I whispered, "Good-bye."
The number might have changed or expired, because Death Masks was 4 years ago IC.
But the mail address almost certainly still exists.


-Martin is senior enough to be part of the governing circle of the Fellowship of St Giles; if you're talking to him, you're talking to Fellowship leadership.

He's been Susan's working partner since she joined the Fellowship. He's also a Red Court triple agent. Not double, triple.
A senior Fellowship agent who is secretly a Red Court priest working personally for the Red King to infiltrate the Fellowship of St Giles and eventually bring them down at his order.

And also secretly a traitor to the Reds using his cover to find an opportunity to destroy the Red Court.
Yes, its complicated.

He was a Red Court priest for 50 years before going undercover to infiltrate the Fellowship, and has been with the Fellowship now for at least 100 years. Which, assuming he was at least 20 years old when he became a Red Court priest, puts him at a minimum of 170 years old.

Even by wizard standards, this guy has got miles on him. Dude's older than Morgan.


Going to note that Martin's potentially a useful thrall candidate for Tiffany, assuming she's still in the market to increase her stable of contractees.
And the Fellowship of St Giles is a safe occasion for her to express her rebel angel tendencies.


VOTE
[X] Offer the exorcism first to make it clear that isn't connected to any personal stuff


Like I said above, Martin is Fellowship leadership.
Letting him know about is about as good as extending a direct offer to the Fellowship.

As for the family issue? Martin has basically been Susan's platonic life partner for four years now. He shepherded her through her early years with the Fellowship, helped her through her pregnancy, he knows who the father is, and he would have helped place Maggie where she is. She'd probably talk to him about it anyway.
 
One, Molly doesnt need better armor.
By the time she hits Stamina 5 at the end of this turn, she's already at the point where she can trivially summon 10 Soak against all effects(11 with Ebon Scales) at the cost of 1m of Essence, and has 15-23HLs backing that.

Two, it is generally a bad idea to make gear and abilities that break combat.
Its supposed to be a game, and Molly's shintai already makes it pretty hard to present credible combat threats to her when she gets serious about dishing out the mayhem.

Three, if you make it require a nuke to even harm Molly, the collateral effects will TPK her party members.
Or you start having to contrive reasons why it didnt.
The appearance of "perfect or die" effects on mass scale in our opposition would be a reason to equip our party members with perfect defenses, not a reason to avoid getting one in the first place.
 
Two, it is generally a bad idea to make gear and abilities that break combat.
Its supposed to be a game

It is supposed to be a game is not a counter argument to wanting to break combat in two.

You can well enjoy doing so, that is still a game. The idea you have to struggle for it to be enjoyable is a question of personal taste and not everyone is interested in it.

The QM is also free to move the tension to other sources if combat isn't one anymore, among other things they can do in answer.

For example using you idea of *if it takes a nuke to hurt Molly and you then have to explain how the ones around survive*, well, you can make the tension comes from protecting those allies.

Or, using the fact that we are becoming a political power, the fact we instawin if we are here just means you can have tension about where to be and how to deploy the rest of our forces.

Those are just two ideas on the top if my head without taking even a minute to think about it, there are far more ways.
 
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Honestly kind of annoying that red court or most of any figures would have perfects at all. I mean I can think of exactly one 10 dot power that could feasibly count as a perfect defense and thats the fortitude power the only other one I know could do something that isn't that would be caine for vampires. Even the red king really shouldn't have any 10 dot powers and if he did well he'd be a way bigger deal like mab seems to be most of the time as 10 dot powers are global bullshit. Also, I mean if he had a perfect defense well the bloodline curse would of been a good time to throw one out. The only canon what I would consider a perfect defense in dresden files would be the noose though I'm sure others things exist in the nevernever and beyond. Like I can see yama kings maybe having one though I can't think of what canon powers they'd have that would give such.

Am kind of annoyed at the breaking combat comment as it basically means that definitively winning should be impossible if we can't break combat.
 
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Am kind of annoyed at the breaking combat comment as it basically means that definitively winning should be impossible if we can't break combat.
Basically this. I am deeply enjoying the process. Reading @DragonParadox writing is a regular and very welcome daily enjoyment that helps me get through the grind of reports, problems and challenges which I am fairly sure should have netted me a Twilight exaltation by now if one was available. I want to enjoy it for a long time to come. To expand and build a new and interesting stories, surprising both my fellow players and our quest master.

I do, however, want to win. I believe that the stories should have endings, if only as a start of a new story. I want the ending to be a happy one. For Molly and the world. And within this paradigm, I think it's perfectly ok to advance. Maybe nerf certain avenues, yes, if they make for a story that isn't interesting to participate in or write, but not to deny advancement at all.
 
Arc 14 Post 69: The Cost of Broken Chains New
The Cost of Broken Chains

21st of February 2007 A.D.

"I can break the curse," the words don't seem to land, how could they after all? To members of the Fellowship it's an impossibility, one that stands at the core of their long struggle against the monsters that made them as they are. "Cure the infection."

"That's not funny," Susan snaps, or starts to at least.

Whatever else she might have said is lost when Martin asks instead: "What's it cost?"

"One hour of my time in a safe secluded location. It's going to be a lot less quiet than I am right now."

"Seriously you're just going to believe that, no verification, no nothing.?" Susan asks looking like someone had cut her off at the knees for all she's sitting down.

"Yes. You've read the same dossier I have." Martin's voice has a peculiar serenity to it that almost reminds you of Brother Divsimar. Hmm... maybe not a bad comparison after all. Stoically ignoring the part of your brain that's wondering if the Red Court Half Bloods can learn magical martial arts and if so how easily you quirks an eyebrow at the operative: "Dossier?"

"You left an impression in Mexico City and in Vegas, especially in Vegas. The Fellowship tried to muscle in there in the 40s when it became clear the Dragon no longer had the direct backing of the Red King. It did not go well."

His tone leaves you wincing in sympathy, though it also tells you something about Martin, he's at least old enough to have been around and involved back when. Realistically that would make him the same age as Gorfel or old man Matthews if not so old that he would perish as soon as the demon is removed. Lash's words are a warning bell in your memory, though one you leave aside for now.

"A positive impression one hopes," you offer with a smile.

"Yes." He does not look uncomfortable, Martin's expression is almost studiously neutral and yet somehow manages to communicate that this is the limit of what he's going to share about internal Fellowship documents. Of course you could just ask, power pointed at either him or Susan, or heck at anything of the Fellowship, but curiosity alone isn't enough of a reason, not when this conversation is still going.

"Wait a damn minute I feel like I'm missing half the conversation, what does being able to brow up an old Red baron in Vegas have to do with removing..." She can't quite get the full sentence out.

"Remember Sao Paulo last year, this is not a war of armies, the armies are just pawns on the board, this is a war of powers. Anyone able to remove the Dragon that quickly with that little collateral has to be a power, one that's new to the game. Should it be expected that she have a means to remove the Blood? No. Is it reasonable to take her word when she says she does out of the blue unprompted? Yes, on the balance. There is no reason I can see for her to lie or for Dresden not to deny it if she were."

"So what's the price?" Susan asks the question in a tone much different from her companion.

"One hour of my time in a safe secluded location," you repeat deliberately. "I do not like people being cursed by cannibalistic monsters pretending to be gods."

"So you won't have to stay away from Maggie anymore," Harry says, it doesn't slip out, it's not an accident. It's a very deliberate choice, like stepping out from cover under fire.

There's a crack as you look down to see Susan had splintered the table, the faint lines of arcane tattoos start to show around her eyes. That's certainly a way to bring it up.

"How do you know that... how do you know?"

"Oh, same way I know most things, I got into deep trouble, then got a lucky break to get out," Harry proffers a disarming smile. "Now you can too."

"You're not angry?"

Harry sighs, putting his head in one hand, the posture somehow making him seem both larger and more fragile. "I'm not happy, but I get it. I'm a dangerous guy to know, I remember telling you that a time or ten, I'm an even more dangerous guy to be a dad. But here I am and here you are. We've got to make it work now. It's not about how I feel."

One of the less used aspects of sharpening your senses like you had was being able to read not just faces, but lips which is how you now read Tiffany: 'Now she wishes they were still fucking.'

You feign kicking her under the table.

"That offer of yours," Martin interrupts, his voice soft but heavy with meaning. "How far does it go?"

Ah and there's the trouble, one hour for the rite itself, two hours and a quarter to get the Essence back. About eight people a day if you do nothing else is your limit. So how much is it really worth for people who aren's Susan Rodriguez?

[] Still free, it will just take a while

[] The Fellowship has skills, knowledge, you could do with the help while setting up your operations on Earth

[] Write in


OOC: If Harry seemed unusually socially adroit here well... he rolled *see below*.
 
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[X] The Fellowship has skills, knowledge, you could do with the help while setting up your operations on Earth
[X] Plan first one is free
-[X] The Fellowship has skills, knowledge, you could do with the help while setting up your operations on Earth
--[X] Pending other more mass-producible options, of which there might be several, but which either require testing, or expensive and hard to get reagents to setup.
--[X] As one of the options... Fetch me some napkins, please.

-[x][Stunt]"An hour of my time is becoming a more valuable commodity constantly. I have many other things that I want and need to do and many people that I am responsible for."

It cannot be free, we need to set a price or the old guys of the organisation will consider us an enemy. Remeber what Tiffany said last update
 
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[X] The Fellowship has skills, knowledge, you could do with the help while setting up your operations on Earth
-[x][Stunt]"An hour of my time is becoming a more valuable commodity constantly. I have many other things that I want and need to do and many people that I am responsible for."
 
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[X] Plan first one is free
-[X] The Fellowship has skills, knowledge, you could do with the help while setting up your operations on Earth
--[X] Pending other more mass-producible options, of which there might be several, but which either require testing, or expensive and hard to get reagents to setup.
--[X] As one of the options... Fetch me some napkins, please.
-[X][Stunt]"An hour of my time is becoming a more valuable commodity constantly. I have many other things that I want and need to do and many people that I am responsible for."


We have the following options:
1) MiS as a temporary solution. Possibly FSB too.
2) Transformation splendors of various kinds. They require reagents to craft, but if the Fellowship provides those, might actually be cheaper at the scale we are talking. Also likely lets them keep at least some superpowers
3) IDU - also lets them keep their powers, I think, and might help. If they still count as mortals enough (unlikely)
4) The Wheel. Risky, and scientifically interesting.
 
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