Wait so did we just not hunt down the people on the list dp? Because some of us wanted to take a bleach bath and go back out there. Imma be mad if we have to deal with them later because Molly couldn't bother taking another 12 hours on the clock to deal with them.
I'm thorn on this one. To me the vote seems to be, do we play within the entrenched power structures of the White Council or do we subvert them. We'd probably get a lot more leverage out of the Wardens and I enjoy the idea of making Harry play politics (for truly politicians are in bed with demons). Long term we'd get an amazing foothold within Council politics.
On the other hand we just got trough cleansing the Council of traitors with sword and flame. I think we can basically trust the Senior Council to be well intentioned and competent and starting and oppositional activist movement would probably make their life harder. We'd definitely won't be able to get our claws in as deep by going trough the established players if no other reason than they've probably had the time to put some dots into their social skills. But it will probably be faster, rather than convincing the Warden to convince the Council, we can go straight to the people in power. And well, in an immediate sense we probably could get more value from having half a dozen archmages moderately positively inclined towards us than several dozen adepts fanatically loyal.
But this is a quest and the Warden option is definitely the fun option. Just letting a demon loose on a bunch of baby wizards while Harry "I haven't met a responsibility I didn't ignore" Dresden is trying to play lobbyist for the Queen of Hell and to make sure no one sells their soul to his girlfriend at the same time. "Not this devil! The other devil who's my close personal friend and confidant! Not him, that's my brother! Why would you even think I was talking about him? I'm talking about the teenage God-Queen of that rules over several billion devils. Shut up Carlos, we all know what you want to do with Molly. God, what have I done to deserve this?"
MORGAN, GLARING: You want me to read you the list? Hey, remember that time you used necromancy on a fucking dinosaur? No, I don't care that you saved our asses, you used necromancy. Is the building on fire and it's your fault, or is it your fault that the building is on fire? Ask your girlfriend. You know, the FALLEN ANGEL.
Damn, that didn't quite work the way we wanted it to.
At least now we know how the roll works, and hopefully it'll work better at the outset next time if/when we have to invite someone in for this again.
I wasn't actually suggesting crafting a ranged weapon especially not one that uses Firearms that's has the exact same problem as SSB our mind hand manipulation attacks using melee
When I said "as you suggested earlier" I was referring to the previous page not months ago, though I can see why you thought that. I'd argue against the tactical prospect of carrying a giant sword or buzzsaw everywhere to telepathically swing around when we aren't roleplaying as a murderhobo and have to blend into a masqueraded modern society but I think Yog's charm would allow for it.
Things that don't require us to invest in completely orthogonal skills to our build yet still work with what we have. On some level I'm realizing now that I should have put forward a plan to just make a big sword out of Prima Metallum and just carry it with us so we can just use it with our mind Hand.
It didn't occur to me at the time because I wanted to be fancy equipment when people are right that we're missing a range option I was just not really seeing the potential in SSB. To me it looked like a waste of XP at best and a team killer at worst.
Hmm.. well I've made my opinion on saying no to a specific charm during XP votes with the logic that we can vote to craft something else instead during a turn vote which only happens every few months (the last one was around 4 or 5 ago) known at this point so I won't say anymore.
I'd argue against the tactical prospect of carrying a giant sword or buzzsaw everywhere to telepathically swing around when we aren't roleplaying as a murderhobo and have to blend into a masqueraded modern society but I think Yog's charm would allow for it
I wouldn't we have a perfect illusion charm that having a sword that is literally just shorter than we are that we keep strapped to our back is something we could just do anyone who could see it would just be after us anyway because they have the Sight Open.
well I've made my opinion on saying no to a specific charm during XP votes with the logic that we can vote to craft something else instead during a turn vote which only happens every few months (the last one was around 4 or 5 ago) known at this point so I won't say anymore.
I hope no vampires have perfect defenses. The closest to a perfect defense any canonical vampire has is the one with 10 dots in fortitude and the invincibility power that comes with it and Caine that can just make up powers whenever they want.
I wouldn't we have a perfect illusion charm that having a sword that is literally just shorter than we are that we keep strapped to our back is something we could just do anyone who could see it would just be after us anyway because they have the Sight Open.
BMI comes down whenever we flair our anima or spend a certain amount of motes in a scene then a mote has to be spent to reapply it. If we are doing other things like in Boston we may not want to spend the mote (which we didn't back then) to reapply it. Then Molly just has a big sword or buzzsaw on her back while outside and it could cause problems with the authorities and such.
BMI comes down whenever we flair our anima or spend a certain amount of motes in a scene then a mote has to be spent to reapply it. If we are doing other things like in Boston we may not want to spend the mote (which we didn't back then) to reapply it. Then Molly just has a big sword on her back while outside and it could cause problems with the authorities and such.
I feel like if we're in a situation where we're flaring in public the police are the least of our problems never mind the fact carrying a sword in public is not at all illegal in America. If it's illegal in other places what are they going to do try to pin us to that location when we're visibly in America at all times because we have clones.
I feel like if we're in a situation where we're flaring in public the police are the least of our problems never mind the fact carrying a sword in public is not at all illegal in America. If it's illegal in other places what are they going to do try to pin us to that location when we're visibly in America at all times because we have clones.
In Boston we flared on a staircase then went into public. It just depends on the situation. Don't know if you live in America but I can tell you that people don't usually walk around with swords or buzzsaws casually strapped to their back. People have had altercations with the police when doing such things as it draws attention even if they aren't threatening anyone. I think we should continue to do as everyone else in our party does and not walk around with obviously deadly weapons on our person. Discretion is the better part of valor so in that scenario just use Yog's charm.
In Boston we flared on a staircase then went into public. It just depends on the situation. Don't know if you live in America but I can tell you that people don't usually walk around with swords or buzzsaws casually strapped to their back. People have had altercations with the police when doing such things as it draws attention even if they aren't threatening anyone. I think we should continue to do as everyone else in our party does and not walk around with obviously deadly weapons on our person. Discretion is the better part of valor so in that scenario just use Yog's charm.
Okay? The quote about the Buzz saw was me explaining the ruling not actually a thing I was proposing we build. Yet again not dissing the charm at all just saying that we have never had an altercation with the police ever for a variety of reasons most of which being we don't stick around after we do our business.
I feel like if we flare we're not sticking around for the police to arrive discretion is indeed the better part of valor.
In Boston we flared on a staircase then went into public. It just depends on the situation. Don't know if you live in America but I can tell you that people don't usually walk around with swords or buzzsaws casually strapped to their back. People have had altercations with the police when doing such things as it draws attention even if they aren't threatening anyone. I think we should continue to do as everyone else in our party does and not walk around with obviously deadly weapons on our person. Discretion is the better part of valor so in that scenario just use Yog's charm.
in fairness the first thought people have is not supernatural so much as murderers, cosplayers, or terrorists. I mean even the most recent book only fucked with the masquerade of much of chicago but not the world. Not that this is exactly what your saying but still good to think about it takes a lot. Also the bystander effect is real.
Okay that's really slick I didn't even think of that I thought the spirit of the Ring was anchored to the ring like a normal emanation or ephemera that is pretty cool.
This is fair enough but we have access to essentially super materials (Prima Metallum) and well they'll be even stronger after we make them a ring. It's a difficulty three increase just to shoot someone in the head directly and choose to do that. I can't imagine trying to shoot literally the the base of someones middle or index finger on someone's hand in comparison to just attempting to shoot them in the face or slash them in the face or attack them in general.
It's also and primarily for mental defenses. Because trying to mentally control or befuddle the spirit of the ring is without a doubt and attack. And since the spirit's primary goal is supporting the user, doing computer intrusions and such, having a defense against cyberdevil and mental attacks is very useful.
The reason I had anything to say on Art of conjury it's because art of conjury makes real objects not like light projections from Sovereign Elemental sway straight up actual objects that have a real value and are permanent.
I am using Sovereign Elemental Sway for forcefield generation, energy blasts, etc. Art of Conjury is to make constructs more real. So you have both the ability to fly / create forcefields, fire energy blasts, and assemble real or almost real objects. I am very committed to the cosplay.
Now regarding your idea. I have to be honest - I am having very hard time parsing the mechanics. If I understand correctly, the ring gives you access to the following actions:
1) Forge Conviction Construct. Wits + Craft roll. DC 3 for primitive shapes (rough spheres, sticks, Cubes, Rectangular prisms, Pyramids, Cylinders, Sheets), DC 5 for simple mechanical objects (brick walls, slides, sledgehammer, anvils, swords, Spears, gloves clothes), DC 6 to 9 for complex objects (from firearms to a functional airplane construct). For DC3-5 rolls the action is instinctive, for DC6-9 it takes a turn. I have some concerns about DCs and also from multiple action perspective. At the very least use of offensive constructs should probably be limited.
You need at least one success to make the construct. Additional successes can be allocated in different ways from blast area, fire intensity, difficulty of wielding the construct or the soak of said construct (neither of which cannot be lowered by more than three), Speed the construct grants, to the amount of Health levels a construct (1 success per Two health levels) possesses.
Duration and damage parameters of the construct are determined by a separate Willpower roll at DC5, based on Base Damage or Duration table (page 504 Mage: The Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition). The duration is capped to be no more than a scene. This seems to be contradictory to the text above. Also having to do two rolls for a single action (manifest a construct) seems to be roll intensive.
2) Build Confidence. Intelligence + Empathy roll. Takes a separate action. Generates DC reduction for Forge Conviction Construct roll with -3 DC cap?
Do I get those right? I'd recommend to lay out the mechanics in a bullet-point format for ease of comprehension, but that's just me.
Also, not sure how you are building it with 3 dot budget. Something like this?
Form of Dreams and Nightmares, 1 pt
Form of Hero's Shadow, 2 pt
Emptiness, 3 Pt
Sovereign Elemental Sway, 0 Pt from Emptiness
Panoply of Wonders: Arsenal, 2 Pt
Or is it a fully custom build?
In any case, if this is approved for 3 dot splendor crafting... With the Forge that's 2 dot resource expenditure. Ie 2 mook Red Court Elders plus one as the price for Molly's work. The Council can actually afford to comission those for their senior Wardens. My design is significantly more expensive, resource-wise. I could see getting one for Olivia, Harry and maybe some of the Senior council members, but not as a mass-produced item. So, two different niches.
And yeah, the Annatar nametag fits Molly very well, if we start forging rings of power.
Huh Yog, not that I disagree with your choice, but neither is idealistic, one is to use our contact inside of the Senior Council to know how to present our proposal with maximum impact and the other is to use peer pressure and the political capital of those who like us more to force them to accept our proposal regardless of whether they liked it more or not.
Both are fair, we are not doing any trickery, be it magic or normal, but neither is idealistic, because both are different ways of forcing them to agree to our proposal, which is simply how normal politics works.
What I meant was that one is backroom deals, while the other is open discussion. I understand that backroom deals is how it normally works. Open discussion is how it's supposed to work, however.
I am very torn on this one, to be honest. Might switch to talking to Ebeneezer, actually. He's fairly reasonable, and we know about Blackstuff already, so we can have a good discussion. And we'll need his help anyway in acquiring the crafting materials for the Books of Laws.
Now regarding your idea. I have to be honest - I am having very hard time parsing the mechanics. If I understand correctly, the ring gives you access to the following actions:
1) Forge Conviction Construct. Wits + Craft roll. DC 3 for primitive shapes (rough spheres, sticks, Cubes, Rectangular prisms, Pyramids, Cylinders, Sheets), DC 5 for simple mechanical objects (brick walls, slides, sledgehammer, anvils, swords, Spears, gloves clothes), DC 6 to 9 for complex objects (from firearms to a functional airplane construct). For DC3-5 rolls the action is instinctive, for DC6-9 it takes a turn. I have some concerns about DCs and also from multiple action perspective. At the very least use of offensive constructs should probably be limited.
You need at least one success to make the construct. Additional successes can be allocated in different ways from blast area, fire intensity, difficulty of wielding the construct or the soak of said construct (neither of which cannot be lowered by more than three), Speed the construct grants, to the amount of Health levels a construct (1 success per Two health levels) possesses.
Duration and damage parameters of the construct are determined by a separate Willpower roll at DC5, based on Base Damage or Duration table (page 504 Mage: The Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition). The duration is capped to be no more than a scene. This seems to be contradictory to the text above. Also having to do two rolls for a single action (manifest a construct) seems to be roll intensive.
2) Build Confidence. Intelligence + Empathy roll. Takes a separate action. Generates DC reduction for Forge Conviction Construct roll with -3 DC cap?
Do I get those right? I'd recommend to lay out the mechanics in a bullet-point format for ease of comprehension, but that's just me.
Also, not sure how you are building it with 3 dot budget. Something like this?
Form of Dreams and Nightmares, 1 pt
Form of Hero's Shadow, 2 pt
Emptiness, 3 Pt
Sovereign Elemental Sway, 0 Pt from Emptiness
Panoply of Wonders: Arsenal, 2 Pt
Form of Dreams and Nightmares, 1 pt Form
Form of Hero's Shadow, 2 pt Form
Sacred Protection 3 pt Root
Sovereign Elemental Sway 1 pt Mystic
Later-day Master Works Pg 39 said:
Three-dot Splendors are built with up to 7 Element points. They have 1 to 4 points of Form Elements and at least 3 points from a Root Element. Up to 3 points may be from Mystic Elements.
As For being a custom build and the two rolls one action thing it is mostly because im essentially using mage for most of the information explained here why.
there is no mechanical back-end for Sovereign Elemental sway at all. Which I imagine is fine for regular table play where depending on what the tone and speed of play looks like the qualities may differ but it is actually terrible for trying to build mechanics around it.
I initially just wanted to add Sovereign Elemental Sway with two servings of mystical fortification on it so the storm heart would allow the character to command the elements of a storm as well and bring up the elements to the proper amount for a five-dot splendor (Not having the proper amount makes my brain itch) without changing the difficulty or the elements of how the shintai transformation works because that's already really strong and as you said before edge of system and I thought it added some good flavor but then saw there is no mechanical elements attached whatsoever.
It is you can create impossible works of art and short lived Elemental tools with nothing else behind it. Not what they look like, what they do, how difficult they are to make, how long it takes to make them nothing. So Mystic fortification just goes into either speeding up or increasing the range of objects you can create using Sovereign Elemental Sway or something along those lines.
I ended up having to go through three separate sources all of which were Mage the Ascension because every other game line doesn't really have rules for conjuring/creating objects. Possibly in real time never mind of completely exotic not matter. A lot of the information is sourced from Violence As Focus & Violence Enhances Magick Mage 20th Pg 445, Base Damage or Duration Table pg 504. Walls, Floods, Force-Fields, Etc. HDYDT pg 37 and Elemental Fury Chi, Slipstream & Elemental Armor Pg 66-67 and last but certainly not least Elemental Touch Merit Gods & Monsters pg.204
● (Optional) Condense/Coalesce (Manipulation + Awareness)(1 action)
● Create Quality- Form (Wits + Craft) (Reflexive at Difficulty 5 and below) (1 Action)
● Stats (Splendor rating + Essence,P'o,Faith,Instinct,Arete/2,Ritual,Mana)(Reflexive)
● Create-Stats One action, Two rolls such as with Violence as Focus
The usage of two rolls to denote one magical action is, I won't deny kind of roll intensive but it's also not without precedent and also distinctly helpful in deciding how powerful a given construct should or can be with essentially willpower or in the case of the example I gave you Splendor plus essence acting as Arete.
While also not making the craft roll redundant.
A limiter and a benchmark in one that very specifically cannot be reduced or otherwise messed with so the roll will always be act difficulty 6 unlike a mage which could reduce it down difficulty 3 at certain points.
So the system behind it is completely custom but it's essentially built using directly adjacent systems things.
we know about Blackstuff already, so we can have a good discussion. And we'll need his help anyway in acquiring the crafting materials for the Books of Laws.
The Council is a gerontocracy.
Most of the active wizard population is well north of fifty years old, and all of the political influence is concentrated in the older people who have had time and experience and resources to network.
The young wizards may be the future, but right now they are a demographic minority.
And even they respect and hold in some affection some of their elders.
I see no advantage and no benefit to intentionally taking the harder, more disruptive option.
Especially since the Council is both in an ongoing war, and that the Stars Are Coming Right Again.
Surprised no one made a write in because these don't even really seem mutually exclusive. Still very disappointed we seem to have just rested and ignored that Molly could have actually gone after that list with minimal difficulty before they all go underground or cause a new problem. Not to mention we didn't use crown questions to learn about deadman switches and the plans that can keep going despite deaths. Like I know this was dragging but it's very negligent of Molly to not do anything about them.
What I meant was that one is backroom deals, while the other is open discussion. I understand that backroom deals is how it normally works. Open discussion is how it's supposed to work, however.
Human civilization, whether it is an oligarchy, a kingdom or a democracy, runs on four layers:
- The Electorate: The actual people who decide how society will be shaped next. In the White Council these are the elder wizards that have had enough time for their power to ossify so they are actually good at making bespoke mystical workings like Captain Luccio was before her body being swapped.
- The Citizens: The people who regularly participate in the workings of a society and as such have enough pull to pick/push between option conceived of by the Electorate. In the White Council these are the Wardens and whatever other parts of it that require wizards to function but we don't see much of in the books themselves.
- The Freemen: The people society considers a part of itself but doesn't enforce into its structures. In the White Council these would be the wizards that aren't employed by the White Council but are both still human and practicing their art privately for whatever reason.
- The Slaves: The people society considers a part of itself and enforces into its structures. In the White Council these are the minor talents that they treat as some combination of obligatory Mollies, Blood Relations and Batmans.
From this the White Council is a gerontocratic oligarchy based on firstly magical power in the sense of one must be a wizard to have rights and not just obligations towards the Council and secondly age as it is seen as a confirmation of reliable capability in the eyes of the Council.
As such this vote is between leveraging our most favorable Elector and organizing the Citizens into making Molly a de facto Elector all on her own.
I don't feel strongly about it. Also like firefrog kind of confused at the two options. Pretty sure we are going to be doing both at some point. I guess this is to choose how we start off with our approach.
Surprised no one made a write in because these don't even really seem mutually exclusive. Still very disappointed we seem to have just rested and ignored that Molly could have actually gone after that list with minimal difficulty before they all go underground or cause a new problem. Not to mention we didn't use crown questions to learn about deadman switches and the plans that can keep going despite deaths. Like I know this was dragging but it's very negligent of Molly to not do anything about them.
[X] Write-in: start by talking to thpse you know won't dismiss the ideas out of hand and will take you seriously. Ebenezer from old generation, Carlos from the new generation, and Harry as thr person who knows you best.
-[X] Involve Olivia in discussion. This is her stated personal crusade after all
I don't feel strongly about it. Also like firefrog kind of confused at the two options. Pretty sure we are going to be doing both at some point. I guess this is to choose how we start off with our approach.
This will color your approach, if you choose to go with the young Wardens it's not like you will suddenly forget you have a connection to the Senior Council, but your push will be one of reform from the bottom up, of offering new answers in a world transformed. If on the other hand you start with the council you will be working on the people already in power and convincing them to enact top down reform, making the practical case to the administrators of wizard justice for instance that it would be nice if they would know when someone broke the Law.
This will color your approach, if you choose to go with the young Wardens it's not like you will suddenly forget you have a connection to the Senior Council, but your push will be one of reform from the bottom up, of offering new answers in a world transformed. If on the other hand you start with the council you will be working on the people already in power and convincing them to enact top down reform, making the practical case to the administrators of wizard justice for instance that it would be nice if they would know when someone broke the Law.
And for us just not using bleach bath to go out and find deadman switches and capture the people on the list? Cause like please I don't wanna deal with that later.
