HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
With all Upgrades yeah, without the Splitter about even, slanting toward Rotary a tiny bit.
Sterbelicht - One Sacrifice At A Time Against The Galaxy (40K)
- Thread starter HeroCooky
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
But with Splitter, they straight up dumpster everything else in close quarters battle, good to know.
We finally did it, we surpassed FAST ROCK as a brawling weapon in 40K.
HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
By replacing it with NIMBLE ROCK. *Sniff* they grow up so fast.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Nimble rock that goes Boom! Can't forget that!~~
EDIT: Actually, Tumbling Voidspheres is in Standards too? Does that mean we've just got better base maneuverability across the board, with the 20 DP thing what we need to just go full inertialess for a battle?
- Location
- colombia
Man thats fucking slow
Like "2 years to reach your closest neighbour" slow
I would take us decades to reach a system in a different sub sectors
Centuries to cross our nation
Add that using it inside grav wells puts massive strain in the drive meaning we cant use for in system travel....
I really hope the "potential" part of the fluf is big and further improbements can be done down the line
Because if this FTL is soft caped at that speed it would be relegated as a gimmick because no multi system civ can rely on it
@HeroCooky found a mistake in the BB section. This should probably say 10% instead of 90%.
Special Rule: 1 DP Weaponry applies only 90% of their [Weapon Cramming] build-up.
Edit: In regards to the Necron tech capstone. Remember this is post quest end tech. It obviously will be improved later on but what we are getting now is the path to either have Smart Matter (Baby Necrodermis) or the option to double dip in FTL methods (Immaterium and Materium FTL). This is something that will effect the post-quest more than anything truly useful right now. It may impact some mechanics right now, my guess is less ships considered unrecoverably after a battle finishes (in our favor) and non perishable goods can be bulk shipped between systems.
Now, I want to advocate for getting the Bubble Drive over Animated Metal. Why? Because it hardens our logistics to a ridicules degree once it fully hits the civilian market. It likely won't ever be something the average civilian uses, but corporation's? They will love this. Remember, the Warp Lanes don't touch every star system in the galaxy and the easiest way to find a place in Real Space? Astrography. The biggest boon of this FTL isn't that it doesn't use the Warp. It's that we can access everything that the Warp Doesn't access.
From there it's as simple as making a shit ton of large (mostly automated) bulk haulers with cryo-pods and setting up mining stations in each star system that's nearby each of systems that are on the Warp Lanes. Get enough of them and the corporations can have a steady flow of materials that can be always present for each system (unlike the solitary Planetmaw). Additionally, we can use it to overcome strategic fortress systems for small raiding forces by simply bypassing the fortress system. This opens up a ridiculous amount of strategic flexibility.
Special Rule: 1 DP Weaponry applies only 90% of their [Weapon Cramming] build-up.
Edit: In regards to the Necron tech capstone. Remember this is post quest end tech. It obviously will be improved later on but what we are getting now is the path to either have Smart Matter (Baby Necrodermis) or the option to double dip in FTL methods (Immaterium and Materium FTL). This is something that will effect the post-quest more than anything truly useful right now. It may impact some mechanics right now, my guess is less ships considered unrecoverably after a battle finishes (in our favor) and non perishable goods can be bulk shipped between systems.
Now, I want to advocate for getting the Bubble Drive over Animated Metal. Why? Because it hardens our logistics to a ridicules degree once it fully hits the civilian market. It likely won't ever be something the average civilian uses, but corporation's? They will love this. Remember, the Warp Lanes don't touch every star system in the galaxy and the easiest way to find a place in Real Space? Astrography. The biggest boon of this FTL isn't that it doesn't use the Warp. It's that we can access everything that the Warp Doesn't access.
From there it's as simple as making a shit ton of large (mostly automated) bulk haulers with cryo-pods and setting up mining stations in each star system that's nearby each of systems that are on the Warp Lanes. Get enough of them and the corporations can have a steady flow of materials that can be always present for each system (unlike the solitary Planetmaw). Additionally, we can use it to overcome strategic fortress systems for small raiding forces by simply bypassing the fortress system. This opens up a ridiculous amount of strategic flexibility.
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I think trying to get "freedom" from the Warp is just not going to work out for us, what with it being the realm of the Star-Child and the thing our Choirs draw on for power.
Missiles are noted to be best in close quarters, and we have quite a few FUN choices for payloads. Not to mention they snyergize really well with our Strikecraft.
- Location
- Belgium
It's not about freedom, it's about having options in case things take a turn for the worse.
We're, barring any exceptional circumstances, never going to be entirely or even majorly divorced from the Warp. Especially not with the wave of psychic awakenings happening right now, and our widespread reliance on Choirs for our industry, research, military, navigation, communications, Songs, etc.
But that doesn't mean we should be blind to the dangers and unpredictability inherent to the Warp or the things lurking within. The Warp tremors are a good example of this. No matter how much we might try to improve our Psykana or pray to the Star Child, if we try to force the Warp into doing what we want it to do, it will push back.
(Why are the Warp tremors locked right now? Why did they suddenly jump from Low to High? Help, there's suddenly a Warp storm outside of my apartment, etc.) Hence the need for backups and safety nets.
I realize I'm arguing on behalf of fictional characters that we won't even see or hear about until the post-credits, but still, gotta keep in mind we're acting as their government and we're supposed to take a long-term view of things. Either way, I'm very tired and hope my argument comes out as somewhat coherent, thank you for listening to my TED talk.
Goodnight!
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
[] [Grand Cruiser] Lepus-class Grand Cruiser
-[] Length - 7.400 Meters (-3 DP)
-[] Width - 1.800 Meters (-3 DP)
-[] Acceleration - 2.4 Gravities (-3 DP)
-[] Armor - Heavy Fortress Armor (-3 DP)
-[] Shields - Two Aegides (-3 DP)
-[] Weapons - 4x Ultra-Heavy Missile Batteries/ (-12 DP)
-[] Equipment - (Standard)Ship Shrines/Auto-loaders/Missile Swarms/Armored Lifepods/(Standard)Superior Gravimetric Engine Calculations/Harsh Crew Training/Lattice Hulls/Improved Internal Security Systems/Augmetic Security Department/BESH Missile Store/Expanded Snapshot Pinpoint Targeting Solutions/Macross Missile Massacres/Splitter-Missiles (-36 DP)
The Lepus-class Grand Cruiser was constructed as a testbed for missile technology, taking the advancements of the Great Breakthrough to develop a ship "As agile as possible, as large as possible, and carrying an armament with unrivalled striking power". Needless to say, doing so was impossible even with the great new vistas of science achieved in the past few decades, but that doesn't mean we can't approach that degree of potency in a budget only somewhat more expensive than a Leo. As a result, the Lepus class is a fast, agile linebreaker craft in the Grand Cruiser weight class, built with armor protection far beyond the limitations of a Heavy Cruiser, and while it suffers somewhat in maximum acceleration due to its greater mass, it nonetheless can output a shocking sum of firepower from its four ultra-heavy Missile Batteries, making use of insights gleaned in Concrete Mastercraft to allow each salvo to output a storm of nigh-torpedo grade munitions, each bearing an advanced machine-spirit that knows precisely where it is at all times, and where it most deeply wants to be--united with the enemy craft. It is also equipped from the ground up to resist boarding assaults, given the eyes turned towards the Cults throughout Storlar and beyond.
There are hopes that the Lepus-class may serve as a heavyweight successor to the now well-tested and refined Leo, with the advent of Battleships and proper Armada Battle Formations, but an understanding of its strengths and weaknesses--as well as further experience in truly titanic ship design--will be needed before a final answer is reached.
-[] Length - 7.400 Meters (-3 DP)
-[] Width - 1.800 Meters (-3 DP)
-[] Acceleration - 2.4 Gravities (-3 DP)
-[] Armor - Heavy Fortress Armor (-3 DP)
-[] Shields - Two Aegides (-3 DP)
-[] Weapons - 4x Ultra-Heavy Missile Batteries/ (-12 DP)
-[] Equipment - (Standard)Ship Shrines/Auto-loaders/Missile Swarms/Armored Lifepods/(Standard)Superior Gravimetric Engine Calculations/Harsh Crew Training/Lattice Hulls/Improved Internal Security Systems/Augmetic Security Department/BESH Missile Store/Expanded Snapshot Pinpoint Targeting Solutions/Macross Missile Massacres/Splitter-Missiles (-36 DP)
The Lepus-class Grand Cruiser was constructed as a testbed for missile technology, taking the advancements of the Great Breakthrough to develop a ship "As agile as possible, as large as possible, and carrying an armament with unrivalled striking power". Needless to say, doing so was impossible even with the great new vistas of science achieved in the past few decades, but that doesn't mean we can't approach that degree of potency in a budget only somewhat more expensive than a Leo. As a result, the Lepus class is a fast, agile linebreaker craft in the Grand Cruiser weight class, built with armor protection far beyond the limitations of a Heavy Cruiser, and while it suffers somewhat in maximum acceleration due to its greater mass, it nonetheless can output a shocking sum of firepower from its four ultra-heavy Missile Batteries, making use of insights gleaned in Concrete Mastercraft to allow each salvo to output a storm of nigh-torpedo grade munitions, each bearing an advanced machine-spirit that knows precisely where it is at all times, and where it most deeply wants to be--united with the enemy craft. It is also equipped from the ground up to resist boarding assaults, given the eyes turned towards the Cults throughout Storlar and beyond.
There are hopes that the Lepus-class may serve as a heavyweight successor to the now well-tested and refined Leo, with the advent of Battleships and proper Armada Battle Formations, but an understanding of its strengths and weaknesses--as well as further experience in truly titanic ship design--will be needed before a final answer is reached.
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I think you're forgeting Superior Gravimetric Engine Calculations & Ship Shrines, the stuff we standardized. Though maybe it's just automatic and we don't need to list it. I'd still like to.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
I assumed they were auto-added?
Point is, this hare is out for blood, and we've potentially crammed so many missiles in one place it's likely brushing up against the Bekenstein Bound, It's intended as our Leo equivalent for our flag formations, where Quality is maxed out rather than pure numbers.
- Location
- Australia
I'm thinking that Bubble drives are too strategically important to pass up, even if vastly slower (which the explicit reference to the "potential" of the technology suggests can be improved) because of:
- The backup capability/alternative for FTL travel regardless of Warp conditions - especially important to keep systems, subsections and sectors connected and supported in Warp Storms or when under attack from enemies which can affect Warp travel like Chaos shenanigans or the Tyranids' Shadow in the Warp.
- A fundamentally safer means of FTL travel (even the extreme hostility of the Void pales in comparison to the unpredictable madness of navigating the Warp even in the best of time and conditions), which could facilitate much more extensive FTL trade, transport and prosperity (long travel times could be mitigated with further advancements in automation for autonomous cargo shipping, cryogenics for passengers and rejeuvant access for crew).
- A means to access, explore, exploit and colonise areas of Wildspace inaccessible and untouched by Warp travel due to a lack of stable (or even unstable) Warp Routes, which still consists of the majority of the Galaxy.
As useful as living metal/materials may be, the Bubble drive gives us a means to prevent something like the Age of Strife from ever happening again and rendering all the progress we have made for naught, and thus even if for nothing else, the Bubble drive is perhaps the single most important tech contribution we can make for humanity and the entire galaxy, as a means of preventing the Long Night from returning ever again.
- The backup capability/alternative for FTL travel regardless of Warp conditions - especially important to keep systems, subsections and sectors connected and supported in Warp Storms or when under attack from enemies which can affect Warp travel like Chaos shenanigans or the Tyranids' Shadow in the Warp.
- A fundamentally safer means of FTL travel (even the extreme hostility of the Void pales in comparison to the unpredictable madness of navigating the Warp even in the best of time and conditions), which could facilitate much more extensive FTL trade, transport and prosperity (long travel times could be mitigated with further advancements in automation for autonomous cargo shipping, cryogenics for passengers and rejeuvant access for crew).
- A means to access, explore, exploit and colonise areas of Wildspace inaccessible and untouched by Warp travel due to a lack of stable (or even unstable) Warp Routes, which still consists of the majority of the Galaxy.
As useful as living metal/materials may be, the Bubble drive gives us a means to prevent something like the Age of Strife from ever happening again and rendering all the progress we have made for naught, and thus even if for nothing else, the Bubble drive is perhaps the single most important tech contribution we can make for humanity and the entire galaxy, as a means of preventing the Long Night from returning ever again.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
The real issue is if we'd be spending what amounted to being "A miracle and an All-X Milestone Perk" Secret Epilogue Kicker on what amounted to being "A gimmick that doesn't actually have any real benefits aside from being New". 40 weeks to cross a single Light Year?
It'd take a full turn just to reach one of your system's nearest neighbors, a turn on our scale even! It's utterly useless as a means of keeping systems linked together because a single one-way-trip between all but the closest regions in realspace is an odyssey of years.
It's cool! Absolutely! It's something that even the Dark Age presumably didn't crack (because Warp Travel was better and easier), but it's not a miracle wand either.
It'd take a full turn just to reach one of your system's nearest neighbors, a turn on our scale even! It's utterly useless as a means of keeping systems linked together because a single one-way-trip between all but the closest regions in realspace is an odyssey of years.
It's cool! Absolutely! It's something that even the Dark Age presumably didn't crack (because Warp Travel was better and easier), but it's not a miracle wand either.
The other one is listed as "Matter Triumphant."
That seems like a big damned deal too. Cars, buildings, ships, robots that just sort of morph back into their designed shapes. It's basically an anti-entropy material. Which seems... good. It's how you build things that are still functional tens of thousands of years later without requiring continual blood, sweat and tears in upkeep. Which means there is no limit to how tall you can build.
That seems like a big damned deal too. Cars, buildings, ships, robots that just sort of morph back into their designed shapes. It's basically an anti-entropy material. Which seems... good. It's how you build things that are still functional tens of thousands of years later without requiring continual blood, sweat and tears in upkeep. Which means there is no limit to how tall you can build.
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So here's the list of all the stuff we want to Design:
50 FP - Battleship. Virgo.
50 FP - Battleship. Hercules.
25 FP - Exterminatus Temple Ship.
16 FP - Grand Cruiser. Lepus.
24 FP - 3x Heavy Cruisers. Leo, Pegasus, Cancer.
16 FP - 4x Light Cruisers. Libra, Andromeda, Scorpio, Hydrus.
6 FP - 3x Frigates. Scutum, Sagitarrius, Crux.
4 FP - 4x destroyers. Aries, Pyxis, Lupus, Serpens.
Next turn I was vaguely shopping around a 5 action turn that does this:
[] Plan: Very tentative Military-heavy.
-[] [Military] Construct God-Engines (20x Grandis (0/1) (Add 50% Progress to a Design action)
-[] [Military] The Ancient's Bone-Mender Temple (Add 50% Progress to a Design action)
-[] [Military] Design New Voidship Classes (Bonus from Agenda)
-[] [Military] Design New Voidship Classes (Bonus from Heartbeat of Industry)
-[] [Faith] Saint Candidate Thule-6969 HRMHVR (or another flex action. But let's throw the QM a bone).
That would mean we have 100 FP available. We can certainly do more in future turns (my guess is another 100 will do it for the other battleship design, the exterminatus ship, support ships & other miscellanea), but for now let's try to figure out which designs to do first. I don't think we need to immediately design the temple ship, especially because we'll need to build fleets of everything else, but just the action of designing a temple ship gets us one and you usually only need to blow up one planet at a time. So we can design that later.
Therefore, my proposal is to do the following designs next turn, focusing on retooling our SBGs & existing forces up to the new standard.
50 FP - Battleship. Virgo.
16 FP - Grand Cruiser. Lepus.
16 FP - 2x Heavy Cruisers. Leo, Cancer.
12 FP - 3x Light cruisers Libra, Andromeda, Scorpio.
4 FP - 2x Frigates. Sagitarrius, Crux.
2 FP - 2x destroyers. Aries, Lupus
That completely refits the main line of our existing SBGs. Which seems... like about the right target here? And it means that these are the ships we should think about making new designs of. I personally think it would be fun to stick a bunch of support equipment into the Andromedas.
50 FP - Battleship. Virgo.
50 FP - Battleship. Hercules.
25 FP - Exterminatus Temple Ship.
16 FP - Grand Cruiser. Lepus.
24 FP - 3x Heavy Cruisers. Leo, Pegasus, Cancer.
16 FP - 4x Light Cruisers. Libra, Andromeda, Scorpio, Hydrus.
6 FP - 3x Frigates. Scutum, Sagitarrius, Crux.
4 FP - 4x destroyers. Aries, Pyxis, Lupus, Serpens.
Next turn I was vaguely shopping around a 5 action turn that does this:
[] Plan: Very tentative Military-heavy.
-[] [Military] Construct God-Engines (20x Grandis (0/1) (Add 50% Progress to a Design action)
-[] [Military] The Ancient's Bone-Mender Temple (Add 50% Progress to a Design action)
-[] [Military] Design New Voidship Classes (Bonus from Agenda)
-[] [Military] Design New Voidship Classes (Bonus from Heartbeat of Industry)
-[] [Faith] Saint Candidate Thule-6969 HRMHVR (or another flex action. But let's throw the QM a bone).
That would mean we have 100 FP available. We can certainly do more in future turns (my guess is another 100 will do it for the other battleship design, the exterminatus ship, support ships & other miscellanea), but for now let's try to figure out which designs to do first. I don't think we need to immediately design the temple ship, especially because we'll need to build fleets of everything else, but just the action of designing a temple ship gets us one and you usually only need to blow up one planet at a time. So we can design that later.
Therefore, my proposal is to do the following designs next turn, focusing on retooling our SBGs & existing forces up to the new standard.
50 FP - Battleship. Virgo.
16 FP - Grand Cruiser. Lepus.
16 FP - 2x Heavy Cruisers. Leo, Cancer.
12 FP - 3x Light cruisers Libra, Andromeda, Scorpio.
4 FP - 2x Frigates. Sagitarrius, Crux.
2 FP - 2x destroyers. Aries, Lupus
That completely refits the main line of our existing SBGs. Which seems... like about the right target here? And it means that these are the ships we should think about making new designs of. I personally think it would be fun to stick a bunch of support equipment into the Andromedas.
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I think that we should wait for new void generation to do a combo. Maybe we should colonise that one sub sector for another border with the grove
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
We already are getting gen 4 Strike Craft this turn
Anyway, let me see what ships can be meaningfully upgraded by a redesign right now.
EDIT: Libra-V should be a sizable buff. I think it's hard-capped even if we make it bigger in terms of hangars, but I might be able to get just a bit more performance out. Scorpio can get slightly tougher armor and maybe another missile battery, Hydrus is basically fine. That's it for Light Cruisers.
Crux could get 2 more DP, which isn't nothing at the margins Frigates run on, we could squeeze in another missile battery while giving it a Thick Double Hull, which is beyond the limits of what Frigates should be capable of and might increase its survivability quite a bit. Sagittarius is basically fine though with only 1 more DP freed up and nothing to really put it on that doesn't hurt it. Scutum is in the same boat, we could up-armor it a little bit but it's already almost as strong as it can be.
Frigates and Destroyers in general just seem to be... There's not really much room to improve them, and even Light Cruisers are only marginally better right now.
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We really want to get the Duchy treaty done. Let's not leave that for later, especially when we will likely want to get some sort of concurrent offensive going by the Duchy against the Nurgle cult in the very near future when our fleet will be ready to launch the Crusade.
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We've invested a lot into automation - I'm kinda thinking if we get the slow FTL we could put it on fully our almost fully autonomous ships to operate in the black on extreme long term missions. Stuff like, extreme stealth spying maybe?
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Yeah, looking things over, and there's really not much point updating anything that's been upgraded since the Duchy War, we don't have enough new DP on the table to warrant any significant boosts. It'd be better to focus on new designs I think. Even the Libra, which has a good 9 points or so free now, doesn't really have much room for improvement in that budget because there's no further strike craft boosts and we've apparently hit the hard cap of how many hangars a Light Cruiser can have on it. Maybe improving the manufactory I guess?
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- Pronouns
- Zack
[X] Bubble Drive
- Location
- ?????????
[X] Bubble Drive